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00:45:39  <ggoodman>anyone else having issues w/ c9 these days?
00:48:26  <Leemp>ggoodman: What type?
00:49:47  <ggoodman>getting lots of on-and-off 404, 500 and 503 errors
00:51:08  <ggoodman>basically, sometimes the app works and other times lots of what seems to be errors coming from the c9 proxy
00:51:43  <Leemp>I haven't had any issues like that lately (within a week or two)
00:52:16  <ggoodman>its been really hit or miss and i'm having a tough time isolating whether its w/ my app or not
00:52:38  <mattpardee>ggoodman is it more than one project causing these problems?
00:52:55  <ggoodman>good question
00:52:57  <ggoodman>one sec
00:54:42  <ggoodman>yes
00:55:08  <ggoodman>getting 503's on an app that previously worked that i haven't touched in ages
00:55:28  <mattpardee>mind sending me your username/project name to [email protected]?
00:55:39  <mattpardee>I'll be able to test myself
00:55:49  <ggoodman>with pleasure
00:55:59  <mattpardee>are you in a different operating environment, behind a corporate firewall for example?
00:56:21  <mattpardee>or change anything else about your operating environment since these problems started appearing?
00:56:43  <ggoodman>same problem in two distinct environments
00:56:53  <ggoodman>one w/ firewall, one w/o
00:57:45  <mattpardee>k
00:57:47  <mattpardee>thx
00:58:21  <ggoodman>sent
00:58:27  <mattpardee>ty
00:59:37  <ggoodman>if you can help, would be much obliged!!
01:00:39  <mattpardee>oh wait
01:00:45  <mattpardee>what are the 404s you're getting
01:01:32  <mattpardee>do they all end in Test/_test.js?
01:02:03  <mattpardee>ggoodman if so, that's normal, that's our automated unit test module running
01:02:24  <mattpardee>as for the 500 and 503s, those sound intermittent perhaps caused by a server restart
01:03:06  <mattpardee>the 404 _test errors will appear when you save a javascript file, so if you're working on server.js a lot for example, you'd see those a lot
01:03:22  <mattpardee>in general, do any of these errors interfere with your ability to work?
01:03:29  <mattpardee>(FWIW I'm unable to reproduce on your projects)
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01:09:46  <ggoodman_>mattpardee: sorry got d/c'd
01:10:06  <mattpardee>np, http://piscisaureus.no.de/cloud9ide/latest
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01:10:54  <ggoodman_>yeah, these errors are typically on static assets
01:11:04  <mattpardee>aha ok
01:11:11  <ggoodman_>or compiled coffee script served from memory
01:11:45  <ggoodman_>http://plunker.no.de/edit/6IgbqP
01:12:05  <ggoodman_>btw, Plunker was made on c9; love what you guys have built
01:15:33  <mattpardee>ohhhh static resources served from running the process
01:15:39  <mattpardee>not c9 resources
01:15:47  <mattpardee>(and thx for the praise! :)
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18:44:21  <arturadib>greetings everyone. just created a simple app at c9.io, the server runs great! Q: can I keep the server running indefinitely? does it have any bandwidth/# of requests limitations?
18:45:42  <Leemp>arturadib: Mine have timed out before, but i'm not sure at what point
18:46:02  <Leemp>arturadib: Out of curiosity, why would you want it running forever?
18:46:41  <Leemp>I've just left them on during programming, and then had to leave or whatever, and then came back sometime later and noticed that it was down
18:46:52  <arturadib>Leemp: do they restart automatically?
18:47:37  <Leemp>arturadib: Just to be clear, are you talking about a running process? For example, when you press Run/Debug?
18:48:33  <arturadib>I'm just generally trying to see if I can host simple free/open source apps at c9.io. heroku does offer basic free hosting but there's an annoying initial delay after the node goes to sleep...
18:49:00  <Leemp>The apps on c9.io aren't meant to be viewed by others to my knowledge, they're for development
18:49:27  <Leemp>Think of it like running an app from Visual Studio, it's not designed for it
18:49:48  <Leemp>Plus, to my knowledge, others can't even view your running app
18:51:41  <mattpardee_>hey arturadib, we won't keep your process running indefinitely
18:51:45  * mattpardee_changed nick to mattpardee
18:52:02  <mattpardee>we integrate with a number of partners for that use-case
18:52:28  <mattpardee>we're also in the process of migrating users over to our new refactored, horizontally-scalable, incredible back-end
18:52:33  <mattpardee>:-P
18:52:46  <arturadib>ah that's what I thought. why not offer a free lightweight (severely throttled) server for small open source projects?
18:52:48  <mattpardee>which handles running processes differently
18:52:57  <arturadib>oh cool
18:52:57  <mattpardee>but the principle is the same
18:53:03  <mattpardee>they'll be killed off at some point
18:53:15  <mattpardee>I'd like to make this a concrete number of minutes
18:53:18  <mattpardee>well
18:53:23  <arturadib>so no free c9.io app hosting? that could be thought of free advertisement
18:53:28  <arturadib>:)
18:53:28  <mattpardee>our core business is development, not hosting
18:53:51  <mattpardee>indeed many knida pull their hair out and say, "It's so obvious! do that!"
18:54:01  <mattpardee>but we're concentrating on the development side of things
18:54:25  <mattpardee>luckily some of our deployment partners do a really quick job of deploying
18:54:33  <mattpardee>others even have deployment via git
18:54:39  <mattpardee>like nodester, I believe
18:54:47  <mattpardee>so you could just push your latest code there and voila
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18:59:52  <arturadib>mattpardee: OK here are my $0.10... I understand the focus on IDE, but you already have the hosting part in place -- just don't take it down after a # of minutes. if that starts hurting your cloud costs, throttle it, it shouldn't be hard. that's free advertisement -- imagine how many small open source projects would be circulating carrying your c9.io domain... personally. that'd be the main reason I'd star
18:59:52  <arturadib>t using c9.io: all-in-one solution for my open source needs. I have a few I'd be happy to carry a c9.io domain with: github.com/arturadib :)
19:00:35  <arturadib>*a few projects
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19:05:16  <mattpardee>arturadib thanks for your feedback. I agree with you in principle that a hosting component would be a nice feature for many of our users. But, I'm afraid that managing a hosting infrastructure (which is certainly different from what we have now) would be a distraction from where our true focus should be
19:05:40  <mattpardee>I firmly believe that no one will lose out with the direction we're heading in
19:05:56  <mattpardee>If I could divulge you in our plans - which I can't :) - then I think you would believe this as well
19:06:33  <mattpardee>But seriously, stay tuned for what we have in store. I think the hosting-on-cloud9 facet will become less of a jewel than what you'll be able to do on Cloud9 in the future
19:08:06  <arturadib>mattpardee: OK great, thanks for listening. In the spirit of a Lean Startup, just keep your ears open -- I might be an isolated case, but if you start hearing the same thing from others, then that might be worth considering. best of luck, great job thus far!
19:08:57  <RobbertAtWork>mattpardee: is a store with editing plugins already on the short-term roadmap?
19:17:00  <mattpardee>thanks arturadib!
19:17:34  <mattpardee>RobbertAtWork I wish I could say yes, but right now our focus is on implementing the gaps in current developer workflows
19:17:55  <RobbertAtWork>mattpardee: OK, cool
19:18:10  <mattpardee>we have a set of internal docs with workflows, personas etc that detail the kind of tasks developers commonly do and, to give a brief example, something like environment vars aren't implemented yet
19:18:41  <mattpardee>doing that will enable database development at a basic level; later we'll be able to create a database interface for common DBs like Redis, Mongo etc
19:20:10  <RobbertAtWork>I still think you should invest in making documented code very easy, resulting in gorgeous browsable libraries. That includes browsing through code using by clicking on imports and referenced methods until you toggle editing mode
19:22:15  <RobbertAtWork>That decreases time for developers to get started in new code bases (especially those as complex as the Ajax.org framework and Cloud9 itself), lowers the barrier to contribute to open source libraries
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19:23:56  <mattpardee>hmm yes, thinking about it that fits into our intention to revamp the workflow process for creating a new project. selection a library for scaffolding (e.g. express), selecting middleware, and advocating for a dev process that will open the doors up for devs to easily create libs
19:24:05  <mattpardee>including packaging it as an NPM module etc
19:24:21  <RobbertAtWork>so writing software with cloud9 will increase your software quality, and safe maybe one or two months time for new hires on complex products
19:24:23  <RobbertAtWork>ka-ching
19:24:25  <mattpardee>we have a dedicated documentation dev who has many ideas on this
19:24:53  <mattpardee>you're spot on
19:25:00  <RobbertAtWork>thanks
19:25:06  <mattpardee>what we did with nodemanual.org will certainly be replicated as a process in Cloud9
19:25:19  <mattpardee>the ability to "Edit" a section of code in documentation which basically pulls the repo into Cloud9
19:25:21  <mattpardee>or just that snippet
19:25:52  <mattpardee>that kind of guided development process has much bigger implications too, for training, education, etc
19:26:55  <Leemp>mattpardee: Any hints/timelines/anything for "What you guys have in store"? lol :)
19:28:45  <mattpardee>what, don't you guys think of us like Apple? All secretive and creating awesome stuff that we don't announce? :-D
19:29:00  <Leemp>Well from your wording, yes :P
19:29:03  <mattpardee>haha
19:29:08  <RobbertAtWork>Leemp: writing software is hard, so if you want reliable software as a service, you better hope the answer is "it's done when it's done"
19:29:26  <Leemp>Oh i agree :P
19:29:30  <mattpardee>RobbertAtWork hey those are almost the exact words I tell my boss
19:29:37  <mattpardee>haha
19:30:21  <RobbertAtWork>mattpardee: Your boss doesn't get to hear estimates either? I like that.
19:32:41  <RobbertAtWork>mattpardee: so what JavaScript stuff are you working on?
19:33:27  <RobbertAtWork>mattpardee: apart from the internal roadmap of course
19:34:14  <mattpardee>in terms of javascript-specific tooling we'll be doing a lot more to bring the full JS/NodeJS spec to code completion and cross-file language analysis
19:34:23  <mattpardee>opening the doors to cross-file refactoring
19:34:38  <mattpardee>realtime code completion etc
19:34:46  <mattpardee>not working on that stuff at the moment but beginning in May we will
19:35:18  <RobbertAtWork>zef was working on stability now?
19:35:23  <mattpardee>yeah
19:35:51  <mattpardee>stability and horizontal scaling
19:35:54  <RobbertAtWork>so I bet no collaboration this year
19:35:57  <mattpardee>better process management
19:36:05  <mattpardee>sergi and mike are working on collab
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19:36:23  <mattpardee>it's been their focus for the past 6 weeks
19:36:24  <RobbertAtWork>oh that's great
19:37:04  <mattpardee>I've seen the back-end architecture that was reworked, etc. It's actually coming along quite nicely
19:37:15  <RobbertAtWork>and I'm sure that's fun to work on
19:37:20  <mattpardee>indeed :)
19:37:38  <mattpardee>the team has been testing it, filing bugs etc
19:38:46  <RobbertAtWork>and for collaboration its good you've been working on stability, response times are essential for collaboration
19:38:56  <RobbertAtWork>not only for the feel of really working together
19:39:05  <RobbertAtWork>but also for the accuracy of operational transforms
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19:40:38  <mattpardee>indeed
19:40:55  <mattpardee>new features won't matter if it's not stable
19:41:16  <RobbertAtWork>the team should use Network Link Conditioner set to a lossy EDGE connection while testing http://9to5mac.com/2011/08/10/new-in-os-x-lion-network-link-conditioner-utility-lets-you-simulate-internet-and-bandwidth-conditions/
19:41:46  <RobbertAtWork>to simulate servers under load
19:42:01  <mattpardee>nice, thanks for the link
19:42:05  <mattpardee>didn't know about that
19:42:28  <RobbertAtWork>I've been writing a streaming XML parser the last few days, it was great for that
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19:47:56  <RobbertAtWork>mattpardee: it's been nice talking to you, thanks
19:48:30  <mattpardee>you too!
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21:40:11  <d_low-linux>hello, will c9 be getting updated to a newer node version any time soon?
21:41:23  <mattpardee>hey d_low-linux, we're in the process of updating our architecture to be compatible w/ v0.5 and above
21:41:29  <mattpardee>is there a problem you're having running cloud9?
21:41:48  <mattpardee>(that is of course for the local version, on the hosted versino you can run v0.4 and v0.6 node from the run panel)
21:42:24  <d_low-linux>ahh, i didn't realize there was a way to change the version
21:42:26  <d_low-linux>just a sec
21:42:42  <d_low-linux>there it is!
21:42:44  <d_low-linux>thanks!
21:42:57  <d_low-linux>i was using the online version before so that works
21:42:58  <d_low-linux>thanks matt
21:43:13  <d_low-linux>now maybe i can start submitting bugs for you guys again!
21:43:14  <mattpardee>np :)
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