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00:43:10  <st_luke>rvagg: I didn't even notice that faq when I backed it
00:43:13  <st_luke>weird
00:47:04  <st_luke>haha sqlite
00:47:05  <st_luke>great
00:47:07  <rvagg>st_luke: well, they've probably justified it to themselves by saying that they don't want a flood of pull requests early on and they need to have something special for their large backers
00:47:30  <st_luke>most of the money is going to build their platform business and infrastructure/partnership/marketing costs, not really the software
00:47:40  <st_luke>at least if they know how to run a business
00:47:50  <rvagg>st_luke: I'm tempted to offer some of my time to help LevelDBise it... but I do tend to offer too much of my time all over the place!
00:48:27  <st_luke>it's better to offer your time on things with a licensing model you agree with
00:48:55  <st_luke>truthfully I'll probably never use the thing, but if it can help do for node what wordpress did for php then it's not a bad thing
00:49:25  <rvagg>tho, by the level of interest this has created, it could be a significant thing for Node, like it or not. And SQLite is not going to reflect well for them in terms of performance--even though they say you'll be able to swap that out with other databases, it's likely people will use the default.
00:50:19  <st_luke>it's easy to say that you can swap out a database before you build the thing
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01:08:04  <st_luke>rvagg: have you watched the basho talk on leveldb?
01:08:14  <rvagg>st_luke: yes
01:08:28  <st_luke>is it worth watching or can it safely be skipped
01:08:34  <rvagg>I got in touch with the guy too, asked about his benchmarks and he's passed on some helpful stuff
01:09:19  <rvagg>st_luke: well, it's interesting but only if you understand leveldb! you'd probably be fine with the level of detail, but unfortunately he talks mostly about their leveldb fork
01:09:54  <st_luke>does he present it the same way tom did?
01:09:59  <rvagg>plus there's a bit of conjecture in there that borders on pro-basho propaganda
01:10:03  <st_luke>tom made it sound as if it's the only level worth using, but that's also his job in a way
01:10:41  <rvagg>well, it is interesting to see what they've done to it; like multiple compaction threads and they've replaced the bloom filter with their own
01:11:10  <rvagg>I think tho that it's not helpful until we have a good way of properly benchmarking leveldb in Node for proper loads
01:11:32  <rvagg>and they do have a point -- leveldb isn't specifically designed for server-side environments, so there's room for tweaking
01:11:57  <rvagg>so we need to have some good benchmarks that show what plain leveldb can do and what their can do and even what plain leveldb with tweaked settings can do
01:12:34  <rvagg>but for you, it's probably not going to matter too much until we have those answers and when we do it'll just be a matter of tweaking settings or possibly just swapping for an alternative leveldown
01:13:01  <st_luke>for me?
01:13:12  <rvagg>for you as a leveldb user in node
01:13:29  <rvagg>cause this stuff is all about leveldb performance, not so much about the way you use leveldb at the api level
01:14:26  <st_luke>even so, performance is pretty high on our list of concerns
01:15:19  <rvagg>well, I have a leveldown that has the basho leveldb fork in it, I could update it and release it if you wanted to have a play, but it'd only make sense if you're able to measure because standard benchmarks don't poke it where it matters
01:15:32  <rvagg>i.e. 1000 puts, 1000 gets, those are all too micro for the kind of stuff they've tweaked
01:15:49  <rvagg>you'd want to test over a period of time how much you can push in it, how long the pauses are, that kind of thing
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01:22:21  <rvagg>oh, and back to my basho assessment, yeah tom is off the mark and not very helpful, the guy doing their leveldb stuff is kind of odd, he's an old texan guy who doesn't immediately come across as super-cluey, even by the end I was questioning whether they'd hired the right guy for the job
01:22:34  <rvagg>but, benchmarks will tell! if he's doing well then it should show in his work
01:28:37  <st_luke>nah, I definitely don't want to use it, don't worry about releasing that
01:31:50  <st_luke>that guy doing their leveldb stuff has a killer mustache though
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05:40:46  <st_luke>rvagg: that's some fucked up shit
05:40:53  <st_luke>incredibly fucked up
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18:27:01  <AndroUser2>Happy Friday guys
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18:31:13  <werle>Stupid irc
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19:38:14  <no9>hij1nx where is the dtrace work you started on?
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