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01:19:03  <eugeneware>mikeal: love the nodebases podcast! Keep it up. Love the logo too.
01:19:27  <mikeal>jessica llord created that
01:19:54  <mikeal>we're basically going to talk whenever we need to
01:19:59  <mikeal>and i'll record it and push it as soon as i can
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01:22:18  <eugeneware>awesome. love the discussion about couchdb vs npm modules. Kind of crystalized the reasons why this whole nodebase ecosystem is so cool and fast moving. Kind of a mini cathedral/bazaar type thing.
01:27:13  <mikeal>not just couchdb, all databases are giant projects and big black boxes
01:27:22  <mikeal>couchdb gets picked on because me and max have spent the most time in it
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01:53:02  <dominictarr>mikeal: couchdb is probably the closest thing to "nodebase"
01:53:19  <dominictarr>giving that there is a lot of couch people in the node community
01:53:24  <dominictarr>and not just users,
01:53:38  <dominictarr>but actually people who work on it's internals
01:54:17  <dominictarr>I don't think I have ever met anyone who has worked on mongo, for instance...
01:57:23  <mikeal>haha
01:57:29  <mikeal>yeah, maybe in terms of people
01:57:39  <mikeal>also, the parts of couch are a little more disconnected than most databases
01:58:15  <mikeal>the primary store is disconnected from the indexing engines
01:58:25  <mikeal>and it uses more standards instead of crazy custom protocols
01:58:29  <mikeal>http, rest, json, common js
01:58:53  <mikeal>dominictarr: https://github.com/mikeal/byteslice
01:59:04  <mikeal>it was getting annoying not having that
01:59:22  <mikeal>so when i went through couchup replacing integers with strings i wrote it
02:00:54  <dominictarr>heh, that nearly the same idea as https://github.com/dominictarr/range-bucket
02:01:14  <eugeneware>dominictarr: yeah. It's interesting how many open source projects are basically closed off and controlled by a small team. Understandable. But I love the small module "composable enhancement" model over the monolothic "omakase *cough*" approach :-)
02:01:37  <dominictarr>substack put it well the other day
02:01:40  <mikeal>every module i write is an omakase of deps i picked :)
02:02:04  <eugeneware>totally
02:02:05  <dominictarr>"rails isn't omakase, it's eating the same mcdonalds meal everyday"
02:02:15  <eugeneware>rofl
02:02:30  <dominictarr>mikeal: that is a good way to put it too.
02:02:59  <mikeal>they say omakase, but i think they mean bukkake
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02:03:28  <eugeneware>imho composability of small understandable components is the only way to manage complexity for large apps, and achieve reusability
02:03:40  <eugeneware>lol
02:05:39  <mikeal>the thing people don't realize about the small components thing is that it forces everyone to write something understandable, to take complex problems and treat them as input that is mutated to output in a more obvious way
02:06:53  <eugeneware>good point. It's a more functional way to compose your software.
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02:19:57  <mikeal>dominictarr: question
02:20:02  <mikeal>well, just a thought
02:20:09  <mikeal>so
02:20:14  <mikeal>i'm doing these prefixes
02:20:26  <mikeal>there's only one user provided "name"
02:20:44  <dominictarr>the name of the database?
02:20:51  <mikeal>i already told you about wanting the indexes of the same name close to the db names
02:20:58  <dominictarr>yes
02:20:59  <mikeal>name of the db or the index
02:21:06  <mikeal>index could be named something unrelated to a db
02:21:16  <dominictarr>sure
02:21:21  <mikeal>what i'm wondering is
02:21:31  <mikeal>[name, moduleName, ……
02:21:32  <mikeal>or
02:21:40  <mikeal>[[name, moduleName], …..
02:21:51  <mikeal>right now i'm doing the first
02:21:53  <dominictarr>hmm
02:22:18  <mikeal>but i'm thinking that it might be better if other people are following this pattern to do the second
02:22:30  <dominictarr>[[name, moduleName]] will not be adjacent to [name,...]
02:22:35  <dominictarr>if that is what you wanted
02:23:02  <dominictarr>you could do [[name]]
02:23:19  <mikeal>well
02:23:31  <mikeal>[[name, moduleOne],
02:23:34  <mikeal>will be close to
02:23:41  <mikeal>[[name, moduleTwo],
02:23:49  <dominictarr>yes
02:24:05  <dominictarr>I've been considering rewriting sublevel, to just use arrays
02:24:06  <dominictarr>like
02:24:19  <dominictarr>[name, subname, subname2]
02:24:24  <dominictarr>but you could do
02:24:36  <dominictarr>[name, subname, [keygroup, key]]
02:24:45  <dominictarr>and if the parts are strings,
02:24:55  <dominictarr>you could handle that multiple simple ways...
02:25:41  <dominictarr>hmm...
02:25:56  <mikeal>also
02:26:06  <dominictarr>one thing you'd want to avoid: having a subsection/index in the middle of normal keys
02:26:13  <mikeal>do we have a convention about manipulatingt he rest
02:26:22  <dominictarr>that is what where using the numbers for
02:26:38  <mikeal>so like
02:26:39  <dominictarr>if you have modules names, do you use a 0 for the values?
02:27:04  <mikeal>i'm use _meta, but basically, yeah
02:27:10  <mikeal>also
02:27:15  <mikeal>do we do
02:27:33  <mikeal>[[name, module], [slice for module]]
02:27:33  <mikeal>or
02:27:48  <mikeal>[[name, module], slice, for, module]
02:28:39  <mikeal>because
02:29:21  <mikeal>[[name, moduleOne], [slice, for, moduleOne], [moduleTwo, dependsOn, moduleOne]]
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02:33:55  <dominictarr>moduletwo dependson moduleone?
02:34:00  <dominictarr>what is that for?
02:34:15  <dominictarr>can't you leave that bit out?
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02:41:53  <dominictarr>also mikeal under what circumstances do you think you can measure the effect of indexes nearby the indexed data?
02:43:04  <mikeal>since they are sorted, data stored farther from other data will get slower as the size of the leveldb grows
02:43:16  <mikeal>if you're updating or reading all at once especially
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03:16:00  <mikeal>dominictarr: i went with the other option, updated https://github.com/mikeal/byteslice
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03:16:52  <dominictarr>mikeal: writing to two places at once is only writing to one place (the log) until compaction
03:17:00  <dominictarr>that might not happen for a while
03:17:20  <dominictarr>reading could be different
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03:18:02  <dominictarr>is there a way to log the movements of the disk read head, so that you could actually evaluate this idea?
03:18:04  <mikeal>reads :)
03:18:19  <mikeal>and still, compaction is faster
03:18:27  <mikeal>but reads are the big one
03:18:57  <mikeal>if you're writing a sequence index and a by-id store they should be close to each other if you want to provide a feed that includes the bodies from by-id
03:19:57  <dominictarr>this seems plausable to me, but hypothetical… unless you can show me some evidence, or at least a citation where someone has measured similar effects in another database
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03:20:45  <dominictarr>also, doesn't the OS have optimisations for stuff like this?
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03:30:45  <dominictarr>mikeal: oh, yeah - another type of since thing you could do
03:30:58  <dominictarr>is a sequence like thing
03:31:07  <dominictarr>but you hash each update
03:31:17  <dominictarr>and it has a hash of the previous update
03:32:09  <dominictarr>-- this method is highly secure, because it's impossible in inject false data into the history without invalidating the rest of the data
03:32:13  <mikeal>yeah, that's what rev tres look like :)
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12:31:02  <werle>hey juliangruber anyway to get muxdex to `shutup` with multilevel?
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15:28:33  <juliangruber>werle: when is muxdemux being noisy?
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19:14:59  <mikeal>couchup has internal replication now
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19:15:17  <mikeal>using sleep, so it can be done in process or over tcp/tls/http/https :)
19:16:33  <mikeal>npm is SLOW!
19:17:13  <chapel>mikeal: do you have an rss feed for the nodebase thing?
19:17:33  <mikeal>i'm just pubishing them on my soundcloud which has a podcast feed
19:17:48  <mikeal>but they'll come down along with future aloof eps and other stuff i put up
19:17:59  <chapel>yeah
19:18:02  <chapel>thats what I was wondering
19:18:02  <mikeal>soundcloud doesn't have a way for you to do more than one feed
19:18:26  <chapel>guess I could just subscribe to that and only download/listen to nodebase
19:18:32  <chapel>nothing against future aloof :P
19:18:49  <mikeal>being that those take me way more time to create i wouldn't worry about it
19:18:56  <mikeal>i doubt i'll get to make another one for a few months
19:19:05  <mikeal>meanwhile, i am writing databases every weekend
19:19:53  <mikeal>yeah, i actually go back and listen to the NodeBase episodes
19:20:08  <mikeal>i don't with Future Aloof because i listen to them so much in the process of making them
19:20:39  <mikeal>anyway
19:20:44  <mikeal>time to walk the dog :)
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19:22:20  <Goranek_>hi guys can someone tell me if leveldb is a good fit for my use case?
19:22:56  <Goranek_>i'm trying to build a distributed prioritised queue
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19:23:24  <Goranek_>i'm building a crawler, and my idea was to create several instances with level db and put urls and scores there
19:23:42  <Goranek_>first i was thinking of using redis for this, but memory is too expensive
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