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00:43:06  <dominictarr>prettyrobots: normally, levelup gives you the right stuff
00:43:30  <dominictarr>I think it does support buffers and strings
00:43:41  <prettyrobots>dominic: I'm adding binary storage to Strata to support this.
00:43:47  <rvagg>prettyrobots: it doesn't really matter how you store the data, as long as you can accept both Strings and Buffers and output both as well
00:44:07  <rvagg>you *could* opt for no binary storage as long as users understand the limitation
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00:48:10  <prettyrobots>Ah.
00:48:36  <prettyrobots>rvagg: Well, I may as well launch without that caveat.
00:49:12  <prettyrobots>rvagg: But, plain text as a storage medium is a nice thing to offer the user. It makes recovery slightly less terrifying.
00:49:14  <rvagg>there's an asBuffer option that gets passed to all get operations that you need to be able to abide by
00:49:33  <rvagg>it's a leak in the abstraction but it's very important for performance
00:50:18  <prettyrobots>rvagg: How is it important? You mean for applications wanting to send binary directly to LevelDB?
00:50:59  <prettyrobots>rvagg: And as long as I have you here, what's a good way for a user to specify options to an underlying implementation?
00:51:13  <rvagg>cause of the storage layer know when to do the String conversion into V8 and when it doesn't have to, you can take advantage of the performance of Buffers when possible
00:51:15  <prettyrobots>Locket has page sizes and such like that an end user might want to tweek.
00:52:05  <rvagg>right, so the options object is passed straight through to the storage layer when it's initialised
00:52:06  <prettyrobots>Would that be at creation to create a `locket` property in the options, and that property is an object with Locket specific options?
00:52:25  <prettyrobots>rvagg: Yes, saw that. But what are the conventions?
00:52:34  <rvagg>and so are options everywhere else (I'm pretty sure anyway)
00:52:37  <prettyrobots>Sub-options property?
00:53:05  <rvagg>prettyrobots: no convention specifically on that at the moment, I don't think I'd go sub-options, just copy what leveldown does now
00:53:35  <prettyrobots>Cool.
00:53:40  <rvagg>most of the options you *can* currently set when you initialise levelup are actually intended for leveldown
00:53:57  <prettyrobots>I've seen that.
00:54:19  <rvagg>prettyrobots: same thing here: https://github.com/rvagg/lmdb/blob/lmdb/src/database.cc#L322-L368
00:54:20  <prettyrobots>I've implemented the open to spec.
00:54:26  <rvagg>(that's not publically announced yet but will be soon)
00:55:22  <rvagg>^^ that one isn't leveldb, it has some very different kinds of options that it takes and they'll just be documented as options you can pass to the initialiser
00:55:31  <prettyrobots>rvagg: So some of those, um, like `fixedMap`, that would be specific to LevelDB>
00:56:14  <rvagg>no, that's specific to lmdb, here's the leveldown specific bits: https://github.com/rvagg/node-leveldown/blob/master/src/database.cc#L211-L266
00:56:48  <rvagg>cacheSize, blockSize, maxOpenFiles, etc. are all leveldb/leveldown specific, completely ignored by levelup and you don't have to care about them as an abstract-leveldown implementer either
00:56:57  <prettyrobots>? http://symas.com/mdb/
00:57:00  <prettyrobots>Is that lmdb?
00:57:03  <rvagg>aye
00:57:15  <prettyrobots>Ah, yes, it is. Kevin Swiber was telling me about this one.
00:57:42  <rvagg>we're trying to push stuff that's very leveldb specific down into leveldown, so stuff like repair() and destroy() and approximateSize() are now documented as needing to be accessed on the leveldown instance
00:58:00  <rvagg>db.db.approximateSize(), used to be db.approximateSize() but now you're told to access the 'db' property which is the leveldown instance
00:58:17  <prettyrobots>Oh, that's cool.
00:58:26  <rvagg>in your case you can do the same, if there are specific methods or properties you want to expose, just tell users that when they instantiate a levelup instance with your storage layer then just mydb.db.whatever()
00:58:31  <prettyrobots>Locket is going to have a lot Locket specific optimizations available.
00:58:32  <rvagg>I think leveldb snapshots will end up the same
00:58:35  <rvagg>and lmdb transactions
00:59:18  <prettyrobots>rvagg: Cool. I was wondering how I was going to expose replication.
01:00:02  <rvagg>yeah, it used to be _db but was renamed because it really needs to be public for this stuff
01:00:08  <rvagg>(explicitly public)
01:00:14  <prettyrobots>It would be the addition of a special property to `batch`, but now I can just make a specialized and specific batch.
01:00:38  <rvagg>sure, if possible then try and make it an option for batch, otherwise expose something new
01:00:47  <rvagg>db.batch({ someOption: true })
01:01:01  <prettyrobots>Okay. Yeah. That's possible.
01:01:31  <rvagg>https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/blob/master/lib/levelup.js#L376 the binding will always get an options object, even if it's empty (cause perhaps the user didn't supply one)
01:01:42  <rvagg>leveldb has a sync option for all write operations that gets passed through
01:02:05  <prettyrobots>rvagg: If I have a JSON backed Locket, no binary...
01:02:31  <prettyrobots>rvagg: Then if I get strings, I don't encode them. I just put them in JSON Locket.
01:02:43  <prettyrobots>And if I get Buffers I decode them and put them in JSON Locket.
01:03:00  <prettyrobots>And by default, when someone calls get, I need to encode them to Buffers.
01:03:04  <prettyrobots>Just the reverse.
01:03:31  <rvagg>https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/blob/master/lib/levelup.js#L173
01:03:35  <prettyrobots>Okay. Well, if that's right, then I'll push binary to the next release and get a working impl. done.
01:03:47  <rvagg>this asBuffer option will come through instructing you whether the required encoding wants a buffer or not
01:04:03  <rvagg>but, it is possible to store as one thing and request as another
01:04:26  <rvagg>put('foo', { bar: "yoohoo" }, { valueEncoding: json })
01:04:59  <rvagg>get('foo', { valueEncoding: 'utf8' }, function (err, value) { console.log(value) }) -> should give you '{"bar":"yahoo"}' I think
01:05:09  <rvagg>and likewise with buffers, but that can get messy of course
01:05:32  <prettyrobots>https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/blob/master/lib/util.js#L52
01:05:35  <rvagg>so all you need to do is: accept both String and Buffer types, respond to asBuffer
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01:06:07  <rvagg>mm, all of those encodings in util.js either return a String or a Buffer
01:06:17  <prettyrobots>rvagg: I see it.
01:06:45  <prettyrobots>This impl is keeping strings? Right?
01:06:53  <rvagg>the nice thing about JSON is that you can specify a reviver function to parse(), ought to make it possible to revive Buffers nicely.. I suppose
01:06:58  <prettyrobots>Of if you need to go to `utf8`, it's a no-op.
01:07:16  <rvagg>yeah, utf8 goes in and out as Strings
01:07:32  <rvagg>'binary' and all of the standard Buffer encoding types go in and out as Buffers
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01:09:48  <prettyrobots>Ugh.
01:09:55  <prettyrobots>Okay, I'm looking at the front end, LevelUP.
01:09:59  <prettyrobots>I thought I was looking at an Impl.
01:11:32  <rvagg>here's an impl that's simple enough: https://github.com/rvagg/node-memdown/blob/master/memdown.js#L79
01:12:06  <rvagg>note that it doesn't really care much about buffers, there's a few checks scattered throughout but mostly it just accepts what it's given
01:12:21  <rvagg>(tho that's easy when you're just storing in memory of course)
01:14:31  <prettyrobots>https://github.com/bigeasy/locket/blob/master/index.js#L304
01:14:42  <prettyrobots>https://github.com/rvagg/node-memdown/blob/master/memdown.js#L79
01:15:40  <prettyrobots>For MemDOWN that key is whatever you gave it.
01:15:52  <prettyrobots>And you only convert it when you get it back.
01:16:15  <prettyrobots>But, for a JSON Locket, I'm going to have to make sure to convert it to a string of some sort if it isn't a string already.
01:16:24  <rvagg>mm, I guess memdown's going to have trouble with buffer keys!
01:17:00  <prettyrobots>That's good to hear. I was using MemDOWN as a go by. I thought something was missing.
01:17:32  <rvagg>tbh memdown didn't start as a serious project, tho people seem to take it seriously
01:17:41  <prettyrobots>Okay, but the encodings are only specified at `batch`, `get`, `put`, `del`, and they are not a property of the tree.
01:17:42  <rvagg>it was more of a proof of concept of abstracting the storage layer
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01:18:07  <prettyrobots>rvagg: Of course, an a miminal example of an implementation.
01:18:27  <prettyrobots>rvagg: People are probably not using it with buffer keys.
01:19:01  <rvagg>yeah, I can't say I've heard of anyone using buffer keys anywhere with levelup so we don't get much of a workout there
01:19:14  <prettyrobots>Okay. So, at `batch` time, I ought to have enough to go by to coerce the key or value form buffer to string for JSON Locket and vice versa for binary Locket.
01:20:17  <prettyrobots>I think I get it.
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15:00:41  <dominictarr>sooner or later https://twitter.com/RoflscaleTips/status/190291005138939904
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15:06:22  <dominictarr>hmm, looks like you can set the driver by monkeypatching this https://github.com/LearnBoost/mongoose/blob/master/lib/index.js#L590
15:07:29  <dominictarr>so, that could be totally doable
15:07:48  <dominictarr>maybe this should be a kickstarter?
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15:37:50  <No9>matteo has the hots for mongo. He is your man
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16:09:10  <dominictarr>mcollina: you should do a kickstarter to port mongodb to node.js
16:09:30  <dominictarr>look, some one suggested it, and 60 people retweeted https://twitter.com/RoflscaleTips/status/190291005138939904
16:09:37  <mcollina>ok, you have started pushing good ideas to others :P
16:09:44  <ednapiranha>lol
16:10:01  <jerrysv>dominictarr: gc will suck, unless you end up with your own memory management like judy arrays
16:10:25  <dominictarr>jerrysv: but it will be worth it for the lulz
16:10:25  <jerrysv>dominictarr: besides, i already implemented it on top of postgres, so no point :)
16:10:48  <dominictarr>mongo on postgress?
16:11:14  <jerrysv>https://github.com/JerrySievert/mongolike
16:11:14  <mcollina>that is super-cool! :)
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16:14:45  <mcollina>Having said that, implementing your graph thing interest me so much more :P
16:15:04  <jerrysv>graph thing?
16:15:20  <mcollina>the next big thing by dominictarr :)
16:17:54  <dominictarr>jerrysv: https://gist.github.com/dominictarr/5990143
16:18:16  <dominictarr>gtg, catch you dudes later
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16:19:40  <jerrysv>i need to get dominic up here to portland
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16:22:56  <ednapiranha>jerrysv: i'm moving to pdx! 3.5 weeks from now-ish
16:23:15  <jerrysv>ednapiranha: yeah? what part, and to do what?
16:23:28  <ednapiranha>jerrysv: i work at mozilla. moving to work over there. currently in toronto
16:23:44  <ednapiranha>boise
16:23:54  <jerrysv>ednapiranha: aha! very cool, to the new office here in town? i know many of those folks :)
16:24:01  <ednapiranha>hehhe nice :)
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16:24:14  <jerrysv>let me know, we can grab a foodcart lunch!
16:24:31  <jerrysv>and if nobody has mentioned it yet, join #pdxtech
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16:24:51  <ednapiranha>nice will do
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22:21:41  <substack>joins for level: https://github.com/substack/level-join
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22:24:30  <brycebaril>neat!
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22:29:07  <jerrysv>substack: awesome!
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