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07:01:29  <trevnorris>ugh, almost have the v8 3.17.11 upgrade done. updating all the isolate stuff is a pain.
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12:35:01  <MI6>joyent/node: Outsider v0.10 * f56bb1c : doc: fix typo in crypto docs - http://git.io/J-Z6mA
12:37:10  <indutny>bnoordhuis: hey ben
12:37:15  <indutny>howdy?
12:42:05  <bnoordhuis>indutny: sup fedor
12:42:15  <indutny>just asking
12:43:19  <bnoordhuis>indutny: i never asked you but how did you get started as a programmer?
12:43:31  <indutny>I always been a programmer
12:43:33  <indutny>from my childhoold
12:43:36  <indutny>s/hool/hoo/
12:43:43  <indutny>but I made a pause
12:43:44  <bnoordhuis>you were born one?
12:43:47  <indutny>haha
12:43:49  <indutny>almost
12:43:50  <bnoordhuis>that's hardcore
12:43:54  <indutny>my grandmother was a programmer
12:44:09  <indutny>and my father was sometimes programming too
12:44:21  <indutny>though he's a teacher in medical university
12:44:30  <bnoordhuis>what did your gran work on?
12:44:33  <indutny>oh
12:44:43  <indutny>I don't remember exact names
12:44:46  <indutny>big houses
12:44:50  <indutny>full of electronics :)
12:45:05  <indutny>and punched cards
12:45:09  <indutny>and electromagnetic tapes
12:45:23  <indutny>she written assembly and then, later, PROLOG
12:45:30  <indutny>s/written/wrote in/
12:45:44  <indutny>if I remember that correctly
12:45:55  <MI6>joyent/node: Trevor Norris v0.10 * a0867e1 : node: revert removal of MakeCallback In 0168109 an implementation of Mak (+1 more commits) - http://git.io/rMML2A
12:46:08  <indutny>so I was drawing pictures on punched cards :)
12:46:13  <indutny>aw
12:46:17  <indutny>yeah
12:46:20  <indutny>and listings
12:46:41  <indutny>then I was taught programming in elementary school
12:46:50  <indutny>I was about 6 years old
12:46:56  <indutny>bnoordhuis: what's your story?
12:47:37  <bnoordhuis>indutny: oh, i was about 8 years old when we got a 8086
12:48:09  <bnoordhuis>i played games on it for a few weeks but i soon realized that it would be much more awesome to make games instead
12:48:23  <MI6>nodejs-v0.10: #31 UNSTABLE windows-ia32 (5/561) smartos-ia32 (1/561) osx-ia32 (1/561) windows-x64 (4/561) linux-x64 (1/561) osx-x64 (1/561) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/nodejs-v0.10/31/
12:48:48  <bnoordhuis>my mother's boyfriend had done some gw-basic programming as part of his study so that started the ball rolling
12:49:30  <bnoordhuis>programming in elementary school... is that a russian thing? we don't have that here
12:49:48  <indutny>I was in special experimental school
12:49:50  <indutny>interesting enough
12:49:57  <indutny>I had programming classes in elementary school
12:50:02  <indutny>but no such classes later :)
12:50:11  <indutny>in ordinary school
12:50:11  <bnoordhuis>what made that school special?
12:50:18  <indutny>experimental classes
12:50:21  <indutny>such as programming
12:50:39  <indutny>and extensive education
12:50:53  * indutnyis a child of experiment
12:50:57  <indutny>muhahaha
12:51:38  * bnoordhuissteps away carefully
12:51:51  <indutny>my father was obsessed with computers
12:51:59  <indutny>so I think we always had some computer
12:52:04  <indutny>and he was changing them regularly
12:52:14  <indutny>and playing with new ones when they was available
12:52:26  <indutny>I remember programming basic on computer-in-keyboard
12:52:29  <indutny>forgot it's realy name
12:53:00  <indutny>ok, brb
12:56:01  <bnoordhuis>okay, family time. /me is afk
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16:17:57  <MI6>joyent/node: Fedor Indutny master * 14a8fb8 : tls: write pending data of opposite side Fix stucked CryptoStream behavi - http://git.io/qXnECA
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16:30:30  <MI6>nodejs-master: #99 FAILURE windows-ia32 (4/563) osx-ia32 (1/562) windows-x64 (4/563) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/nodejs-master/99/
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17:06:55  <tjfontaine>what the devil
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17:37:07  <MI6>nodejs-master: #100 UNSTABLE windows-ia32 (4/563) windows-x64 (4/563) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/nodejs-master/100/
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19:36:00  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Ben Noordhuis master * ab935a2 : include: use x macros for uv_any_{handle,req} unions Generate the member - http://git.io/_0Genw
19:38:04  <MI6>libuv-master: #52 UNSTABLE windows (4/184) linux (2/183) smartos (4/183) osx (2/183) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-master/52/
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21:13:59  <trevnorris>indutny: the only two ways I can think of comparing the api from two v8 versions is diff'ing include/v8.h or eyeballing it, know of an easier way?
21:15:17  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: from GH-5042 I get the idea that node has an "official" cc api. is that correct?
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21:26:07  <bnoordhuis>trevnorris: yes
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21:27:27  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: think it would be good to add our own "include" the way v8 does? i mean, when I made the ticker domain changes I didn't even consider adding MakeDomainCallback to node.h.
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21:29:25  <bnoordhuis>trevnorris: it's not just node.h though, node_buffer.h and node_object_wrap.h are also part of the official api
21:29:47  <bnoordhuis>as to moving them to a separate include/ directory, shrug
21:30:06  <bnoordhuis>it's not that it's a bad idea, it's just that i don't really care :)
21:30:17  <bnoordhuis>most add-on authors seem okay with the current setup
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21:30:50  <bnoordhuis>so if it's not perceived as broken, there's not really a reason to fix it, right?
21:32:30  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: was thinking about it for two reasons.
21:33:15  <trevnorris>first was to create Doxyfile that could generate all the documentation for both, and included as a link in node's api page
21:34:29  <trevnorris>the second is to remind morons like me to consider whether api changes should be public or not. (e.g. MakeDomainCallback)
21:34:57  <trevnorris>guess the second is more from inexperience on my part
21:36:13  <bnoordhuis>if you feel strongly about it, send a PR :)
21:36:23  <bnoordhuis>i won't block it, i'm just kinda meh about it
21:36:41  <trevnorris>ok, i can handle that =)
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21:58:16  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: is something like the following kosher in c++: https://gist.github.com/trevnorris/5183829
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21:58:50  <cjd>Hi guys, is it possible to compile modules with mingw32 and load them in windows? I gather it didn't used to be but figured I'd waste a little of your time asking instead of a lot of mine reading release notes :)
22:00:08  <cjd>trevnorris: in my understanding, it is.
22:01:00  <trevnorris>cool. thanks.
22:01:26  <cjd>what are you trying to do? maybe there is something I'm missing
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22:01:57  <cjd>allocate a block of memory 14 bytes large on the heap and put the number 10 in the first 4 bytes of it?
22:03:01  <bnoordhuis>cjd: modules work on windows but i can't vouch for modules compiled with mingw32
22:03:09  <cjd>awesome
22:03:11  <cjd>thx
22:03:15  <trevnorris>cjd: yeah. just figuring out a way to create a small header in a block of memory that can help keep track of it's stats.
22:03:58  <bnoordhuis>trevnorris: you'd normally use a struct for that
22:04:26  <cjd>I'd do this: struct mystr { int number; char[10] bytes; }; x = malloc(sizeof(struct mystr)); x.number = 10;
22:04:27  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: tried that, but performance overhead of creating a new struct for every buffer created killed me.
22:04:37  <cjd>err
22:04:43  <cjd>structs are reased at runtime
22:04:46  <cjd>*erased
22:04:53  <bnoordhuis>yeah, it's just memory
22:04:59  <bnoordhuis>same as with your int array approach
22:05:05  <cjd>they are calculated into array offsets because C is full of win
22:05:15  <trevnorris>but "new struct" persists, correct?
22:05:22  <trevnorris>i mean, later I'll have to delete it.
22:05:34  <cjd>well new char[14]; persists too
22:05:53  <trevnorris>yes, but when I pass that as a void* I have no way of knowing how large it is.
22:05:56  <cjd>if you want to put it on the stack and have it be gone after the end of the function, don't use 'new'
22:06:25  <bnoordhuis>trevnorris: and this way you do? explain that one to me :)
22:07:03  <cjd>C > C++ :P
22:07:12  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: ok, so i need to keep track of the size of "new char" to use when the Persistent handle is cleaned up. so
22:07:51  <trevnorris>i created "struct { void* data; uint32_t size; }". initialized it with "new..." then passed it's pointer to "MakeWeak"
22:08:00  <trevnorris>so later I could get the size of the memory allocated.
22:08:32  <cjd>note that `void* data` is 8 bytes in size because it's a pointer to something somewhere else
22:08:38  <cjd>(or 4 on a 32 bit)
22:09:40  <cjd>what you can do, and this is ugly... struct MyVariableSizeThing { uint32_t size; uint8_t thingStuff[0]; }
22:10:00  <cjd>really thingStuff is bigger than 0, it overflows what is technically the end of the struct
22:10:10  <cjd>but it's super popular, I use them in a few places IIRC
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22:10:18  <piscisaureus_>hello
22:10:21  <piscisaureus_>ircretary: notes
22:10:24  <piscisaureus_>spoler: https://gist.github.com/piscisaureus/5183856
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22:12:15  <cjd>libxx makes me happy
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22:12:27  <bnoordhuis>trevnorris, cjd: type name[0] is a c99-ism but you can always do type name[1] and subtract one of the number of bytes to malloc of course
22:12:41  <bnoordhuis>libuv uses that approach in a couple of places
22:13:11  <cjd>/nod
22:17:19  <trevnorris>i'm writing up and example, sec.
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22:28:39  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: is this what you're referring to: https://gist.github.com/trevnorris/5118651
22:28:44  <trevnorris>(how i'm using data_size)
22:29:36  <bnoordhuis>trevnorris: in c++ code, use static_cast<type>(var) when you cast from void* to something else
22:30:04  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: just "best practice" or does it offer some benefit?
22:31:10  <bnoordhuis>trevnorris: it catches some categories of bugs at compile time
22:31:14  <trevnorris>ok
22:31:23  <bnoordhuis>c style casts are like reinterpret_cast only even more cavalier
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22:32:41  <bnoordhuis>trevnorris: you can avoid the double new / double delete with the trick that cjd pointd out
22:32:44  <bnoordhuis>*pointed
22:33:43  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: i've updated the gist with both implementations, and the performance difference. it's huge.
22:33:46  <trevnorris>any ideas why?
22:34:47  <bnoordhuis>define huge?
22:37:26  <trevnorris>0.05 sec vs 9 sec
22:38:53  <bnoordhuis>trevnorris: perf record && perf report
22:39:10  <bnoordhuis>the first snippet is doing two news per alloc it seems
22:39:23  <bnoordhuis>that probably hurts
22:40:53  <cjd>err 180x perf improvement == bug
22:41:55  <cjd>where are the before/after pastes?
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22:56:20  <trevnorris>back
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22:56:28  <trevnorris>cjd: the scripts are https://gist.github.com/trevnorris/5118651
22:56:34  <trevnorris>and at the bottom are the results.
22:56:37  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: i'll run those in a few
23:01:37  <cjd>were all allocations the same size?
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23:02:44  <cjd>because you might have hit a sweet spot w/ the malloc() implementation where it just kept handing you the same page back and forth as you malloc'd and freed whereas that sweet spot is unlikely in reality
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23:06:57  <bnoordhuis>https://gist.github.com/bnoordhuis/05b75296b324f77d8a83 <- find and set the max rlimit(RLIMIT_NOFILE)
23:07:05  <bnoordhuis>would something like that be useful in node?
23:07:47  <bnoordhuis>it would at least put an end to all the dupe bug reports about some of the test failing on os x because RLIMIT_NOFILE=256 by default there
23:07:54  <bnoordhuis>*tests
23:08:05  <trevnorris>that would be nice
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23:10:58  <bnoordhuis>another thing i want to build in is a SIGSEGV backtrace dumper
23:11:28  <cjd>I can haz?
23:11:37  <bnoordhuis>i'm through with explaining js programmers how gdb works :)
23:12:04  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: here's the output: https://gist.github.com/trevnorris/5184053
23:12:11  <bnoordhuis>cjd: you mean the gist? sure
23:12:19  <cjd>no, the dumper :)
23:12:31  <bnoordhuis>once i get around to it, sure :)
23:12:36  <trevnorris>bnoordhuis: const-report not using struct, the other one does.
23:12:39  <cjd>I set my RLIMIT_NOFILE to 0 as a sandboxing technique
23:12:43  <bnoordhuis>node is mit licensed, i.e. free to steal
23:13:08  <cjd>https://github.com/cjdelisle/fixlicense
23:13:26  <bnoordhuis>cjd: what's stopping the sandboxed app from raising the rlimit again?
23:13:45  <cjd>I set the hard limit to 0
23:14:12  <cjd>setrlim(RLIMIT_NOFILE, struct rlimit { 0, 0 });
23:14:15  <cjd>IIRC
23:14:50  <bnoordhuis>oh, as root? and then setuid(user)?
23:14:56  <bnoordhuis>i guess that would work
23:15:03  <cjd>no, you can set it as a user
23:16:13  <defunctzombie>bnoordhuis: do node extensions build with exceptions disabled in 0.8?
23:16:20  <mmalecki>bnoordhuis: I'd like that backtrace dumper, even tho I know how gdb works :)
23:16:21  <defunctzombie>bnoordhuis: is there any way to turn exceptions on?
23:16:49  <mmalecki>bnoordhuis: also, how are you doing? long time since we last talked!
23:17:29  <bnoordhuis>cjd: oh, right. hard limit. sorry, read fail on my side
23:17:48  <cjd>yeap, I've never found a way around it
23:18:34  <bnoordhuis>well, i guess a setuid program could work around it
23:18:42  <bnoordhuis>or when you run your application as root
23:18:46  <cjd>indeed
23:18:54  <cjd>cjdns core sheds permissions
23:18:56  <bnoordhuis>but you probably won't do that if you're sandboxing in the first place :)
23:19:03  <cjd>/nod
23:20:06  <bnoordhuis>defunctzombie: c++ exceptions? they're disabled in node
23:20:21  <bnoordhuis>you can use them in your module iff (if and only if) they don't escape outside your module
23:20:47  <defunctzombie>bnoordhuis: are they disabled with node-gyp compilation too?
23:21:16  <defunctzombie>I am building a module that has some throws and keep getting: error: cannot use 'throw' with exceptions disabled
23:21:26  <bnoordhuis>maybe, i don't know. what does `node-gyp -v build` print?
23:21:50  <defunctzombie>-fno-exceptions
23:21:56  <bnoordhuis>there you go
23:22:00  <defunctzombie>hm
23:22:08  <bnoordhuis>you can probably override that in your binding.gyp
23:22:26  <bnoordhuis>'cflags': ['-fexceptions', '-frtti']
23:22:29  <defunctzombie>k
23:22:32  <defunctzombie>I will try that, thanks
23:22:36  <bnoordhuis>(rtti is optional)
23:23:08  <defunctzombie>thanks
23:23:11  <bnoordhuis>mmalecki: i'm fine, thanks. :)
23:23:13  <bnoordhuis>how was thailand?
23:23:20  * benoitcquit (Excess Flood)
23:24:10  <mmalecki>bnoordhuis: it was great, mostly. I spent few last days being sick but recovered quickly. amazing experience, anyway
23:24:31  <bnoordhuis>sick? what did you do? and with whom (or what)?
23:25:20  <mmalecki>bnoordhuis: xanax withdrawal or just sunburn, not sure :)
23:25:24  <mmalecki>high fever and such
23:25:27  <mmalecki>boring stuff
23:25:45  <bnoordhuis>trevnorris: did you run perf with `record -i`?
23:25:50  * `3rdEdenquit (Remote host closed the connection)
23:25:51  <mmalecki>how's Netherlands these days? we've got some snow here recently
23:26:06  <defunctzombie>bnoordhuis: adding that line didn't add those flags to the node-gyp build -v btw
23:26:11  <defunctzombie>I did re-run configure
23:26:16  <bnoordhuis>mmalecki: yeah, it was snowy here last week. last couple of days been reasonably nice though
23:26:18  <defunctzombie>maybe I should blow away the build dir
23:26:30  <bnoordhuis>mmalecki: still, spring can't come quick enough as far as i'm concerned
23:26:41  * wolfeidauquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:26:43  <bnoordhuis>defunctzombie: node-gyp -v rebuild?
23:26:55  <defunctzombie>I just keep running node-gyp -v build
23:26:58  * wolfeidaujoined
23:26:59  <defunctzombie>should I use rebuild instead?
23:27:09  <bnoordhuis>if you change the binding.gyp file yes
23:27:19  <defunctzombie>k
23:27:23  <defunctzombie>bnoordhuis: well, same issue
23:27:25  <defunctzombie>-fno-exceptions appears
23:27:34  <defunctzombie>'cflags': ['-fexceptions', '-frtti']
23:27:44  <defunctzombie>I have that under the target in bindings.gyp
23:28:16  <bnoordhuis>defunctzombie: maybe add 'cflags!': ['-fno-exceptions', '-fno-rtti']
23:28:24  <defunctzombie>k, ill try that
23:28:34  <mmalecki>bnoordhuis: still snowy here (not surprised, since we're almost Russia). can't wait to stop wearing coats :).
23:29:03  <defunctzombie>nope, they still appear haha
23:29:23  <bnoordhuis>defunctzombie: does your binding.gyp have more than one target?
23:29:35  <defunctzombie>it reference a dependency target
23:29:44  <defunctzombie>which is another gyp file
23:29:50  * benoitcjoined
23:30:50  <bnoordhuis>defunctzombie: try adding it to both files
23:30:54  * sh1mmerjoined
23:30:58  <defunctzombie>bnoordhuis: tried that.. nothing
23:31:03  <defunctzombie>bnoordhuis: is it cxxflags for c++?
23:31:12  <defunctzombie>or would it be the same for either lang?
23:31:34  <bnoordhuis>defunctzombie: cflags_cc
23:31:39  <defunctzombie>k
23:31:51  <bnoordhuis>oh, i guess node sets them in cflags_cc so node-gyp probably does as well
23:31:52  <bnoordhuis>sorry :/
23:32:17  * perezdjoined
23:32:42  <defunctzombie>hm, nothing seems to turn off -fno-exceptions haha
23:32:57  <bnoordhuis>trevnorris: 30% in the gc for the struct case? that seems fishy
23:35:21  <defunctzombie>bnoordhuis: https://github.com/TooTallNate/node-gyp/issues/17
23:37:17  <defunctzombie>gonna try this stuff
23:43:24  * piscisaureus_quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:44:48  <sh1mmer>bnoordhuis: congrats on the company stuff btw
23:45:18  <bnoordhuis>sh1mmer: thanks :)
23:45:52  <sh1mmer>You should probably send me a pitch on the distro
23:45:58  <sh1mmer>No promises though :P
23:46:05  * perezdquit (Quit: perezd)
23:47:35  <bnoordhuis>sh1mmer: you still work for walmart?
23:48:03  <sh1mmer>I was only consulting. Maybe you should hit up Eran too though
23:50:21  <bnoordhuis>i believe we're already talking to some walmart people
23:50:27  <bnoordhuis>the more the merrier though, of course
23:53:49  * mmaleckichanged nick to mmalecki[zzz]
23:54:02  * brsonquit (Quit: leaving)