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00:03:48  <othiym23>woop woop woop
00:04:20  <othiym23>trevnorris: I'm down with that plan
00:04:29  <trevnorris>othiym23: coolio.
00:04:42  <othiym23>I was writing some asyncListener code last night and found the requirement to have a creation function a little weird
00:05:03  <othiym23>I also found about half a dozen things that are awkward with the CLS API, but that's not your problem
00:05:09  <trevnorris>i'm trying to get the performance penalty for just placing noop's in each callback spot as close to zero as possible.
00:05:43  <trevnorris>yeah. making it required made some things simpler, but that was before I finished AsyncWrap.
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00:09:56  <othiym23>figuring out how to spread the workload out and where to do shortcutty things is hard
00:10:28  <othiym23>I eventually settled on monkeypatching the CLS async listeners to keep from having to add another listener
00:10:56  <trevnorris>yeah. that shouldn't be necessary. sorry about that.
00:11:09  <othiym23>I think the next optimization is probably to get better about making the asyncListener only active when it needs to be (although then I will need two listeners, because one is the new New Relic error tracer, assuming I can get it to work the way I want it to)
00:12:09  <trevnorris>othiym23: you'll have to explain that better. in my implementation they're only active when the user has added one, or one has been set by a running function.
00:12:25  <trevnorris>i do some state sharing to check in c++ before making the call to js
00:12:49  <othiym23>trevnorris: yeah, that's what I mean -- in my application, I add the listener once and at bootstrap time and then leave it in force for the rest of runtime
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00:13:00  <trevnorris>ah, ok.
00:13:21  <othiym23>trevnorris: because I'm relying on the asyncListener seeing all throws to toplevel, I have to leave that part active at all times
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00:13:26  <trevnorris>othiym23: the issue, and i've wanted to investigate this, is that say a connection to a server won't be captured by the async listener if it's only added to the server
00:13:34  <othiym23>but the CLS part only needs to be activated for wrapped async calls
00:13:35  <trevnorris>because "technically" it's a seperate async event
00:14:11  <othiym23>trevnorris: I am trying to understand what you mean there, and think I need more context
00:14:20  <trevnorris>also, i really really really want to add a way to toggle what you listen for.
00:14:49  <trevnorris>ok. so p.addAsync(); net.createServer().listen(); p.removeAsync(); any new connection object won't be listened on
00:14:59  <trevnorris>so, say a connection errors, it won't be captured by the async error handler.
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00:15:19  <trevnorris>because technically the connection to the server is separate from the server itself.
00:15:20  <trevnorris>make sense?
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00:17:04  <othiym23>yes
00:17:20  <othiym23>this is another case of the issue you run into with EEs all the time
00:17:52  <trevnorris>yeah. these are things i'd like to figure out before v0.12
00:17:56  <othiym23>i.e. figuring out whether something asynchronous is "owned" by an observer, the observed, or something else altogether
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00:18:27  <trevnorris>also, and i'm still not sure how to do this, want to add a c++ api.
00:18:42  <trevnorris>it would be more limited in scope (only listen for object creation, etc)
00:19:01  <trevnorris>but the idea is that you could create "groups" of resources. basically a double linked list.
00:19:21  <trevnorris>and if one of them errors then you march through all the others and tell them to stop whatever they're doing and cleanup after themselves.
00:19:33  <othiym23>figuring out an efficient way to hook object creation sounds hard
00:19:55  <trevnorris>if a dev is good about not affecting global state and keeps things contained, then it should allow a way to properly cleanup after an error.
00:20:11  <trevnorris>yeah. i've been thinking about it a lot and still haven't found a good way.
00:21:25  <trevnorris>part of this is for a move I want to make in v0.13. adding a super basic low level js api directly on top of the c++ api.
00:21:51  <trevnorris>no streams/ee's and whatever. super basic and something all the other apis can build from.
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00:24:45  <othiym23>trevnorris: do you mean wrt I/O?
00:24:47  <othiym23>or what?
00:25:16  <othiym23>I mean, the built-in JS stuff is all pretty low-level, and the timers are a pretty straightforward / basic interface to the libuv run loops
00:25:21  <trevnorris>othiym23: basically. it's part of my grand plan for https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/6252
00:26:05  <trevnorris>so like "net", totally wrong. it shouldn't abstract away whether it's a tcp or pipe
00:26:50  <trevnorris>it'll also allow doing some crazy stuff like passing c++ methods as callbacks, by passing an External with a pointer to your callback
00:27:04  <trevnorris>then it's extracted in c++ and placed on the class instance.
00:27:20  <trevnorris>so you can control the business logic in JS, but handle the operations in c++
00:28:03  <trevnorris>also make it so class instance methods also work on everything of its type.
00:29:05  <trevnorris>e.g. say I want to create a tcp connection, it'd be like: var TCPStream = require('tcp-stream'); var tcpStream = new TCPStream();
00:29:06  <trevnorris>but then you can pause _all_ tcp streams with TCPStream.pause();
00:29:52  <trevnorris>and get better state information. like (spitballing api here) TCPStream.bytesToBeWritten(); returns the number of bytes waiting to be written out.
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00:30:45  <trevnorris>it would allow for better control if something bad is happening. say the write queue gets really backed up for some reason, you can pause() all connections and check each instance to see where the clog is happening.
00:31:16  <trevnorris>then, say, .destroy() that individual instance and TCPStream.resume() to continue operations as normal.
00:31:39  <trevnorris>ok. rant over. i've been thinking about this a lot as you might be able to tell. :P
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00:36:16  <othiym23>trevnorris: that almost sounds like a separate project
00:36:19  <othiym23>a totally cool project
00:36:38  <trevnorris>i've already started. :)
00:37:09  <trevnorris>but since it uses most of existing core code i'm hoping we can make the changes in v0.13 and do the same thing as we did w/ domains and async listeners.
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00:43:02  <trevnorris>alright. off to pick up some dumplings for dinner.
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00:43:04  <LOUDBOT>"THAT IS MORALLY EQUIVALENT TO COLD-BLOODED HOMICIDE"
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17:33:44  <indutny>bnoordhuis: heya
17:33:47  <indutny>bnoordhuis: how are you?
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18:50:29  <indutny>bnoordhuis: ping
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19:08:02  <bnoordhuis>indutny: pong. mind you, i'm not reviewing any PRs today
19:08:07  <indutny>ah, ok :)
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19:29:47  <bnoordhuis>indutny: thoughts on the name of a new module that contains assorted profiling/monitoring functions?
19:29:56  <indutny>oh, that 'prof' thing
19:29:59  <bnoordhuis>yep
19:30:06  <indutny>hm...
19:30:11  <indutny>should it be poetic?
19:30:15  <indutny>feather
19:30:16  <bnoordhuis>sam suggested 'v8' which isn't bad but might get inaccurate when we add more stuff
19:30:21  <bnoordhuis>waterfall!
19:30:21  <indutny>well
19:30:30  <indutny>v8 is quite good, actually
19:30:37  <indutny>if it will get something that doesn't fit it
19:30:40  <indutny>we can always split it
19:30:47  <indutny>and move not fitting parts into another thing
19:31:06  <bnoordhuis>hrm, okay
19:31:17  <bnoordhuis>but, but... what if it conceptually fits together?
19:31:54  <bnoordhuis>like a) a gc monitoring tool, and b) a node buffer monitoring tool?
19:32:01  <bnoordhuis>naming is hard :-/
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19:32:53  <indutny>ok
19:32:54  <indutny>fuck it
19:32:56  <indutny>just use v8
19:32:57  <indutny>:)
19:33:36  * indutnyfinally got some time to work on tls.js
19:34:09  <bnoordhuis>well, maybe. like i say, i kind of like 'v8'
19:34:22  <bnoordhuis>'mon' is kind of neat
19:34:30  <bnoordhuis>for monitoring but also the french word for 'mine'
19:34:33  <bnoordhuis>BECAUSE IT IS!
19:34:33  <LOUDBOT>I'M GOING FUCKING APESHIT HERE MOTHERFUCKER
19:36:29  <bnoordhuis>okay, v8 it is
19:37:13  <bnoordhuis>and if sometime in the future it turns out the name is inadequate, then we can blame canada!
19:41:32  <mmalecki>can we blame the republicans instead bnoordhuis?
19:48:15  <indutny>mmalecki: why do you care?
19:48:18  <indutny>just blame ben
19:48:22  <indutny>I always do this
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19:50:36  <indutny>political jokes on the issue tracker
19:50:50  <indutny>ok
19:50:51  <indutny>ttyl
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20:29:41  <bnoordhuis>(gdb) p err
20:29:41  <bnoordhuis>Segmentation fault (core dumped)
20:29:43  <bnoordhuis>*sigh*
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20:36:19  <tjfontaine>I hate it when debuggers dump core :/
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22:13:33  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Ben Noordhuis master * f388698 : netbsd, openbsd: enable futimes() wrapper (+1 more commits) - http://git.io/-YBVLA
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