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00:19:45  <Ralith>indutny: Does libuv-on-linux have a way to listen for events on an arbitrary FD?
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00:21:19  <indutny>Ralith: uv_pipe_open ?
00:21:20  <indutny>or
00:21:23  <indutny>uv_poll_t
00:21:30  <indutny>depends on what you need
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00:22:27  <Ralith>indutny: ah, poll, thanks--not sure why I was having trouble finding it
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00:28:12  <indutny>np
00:28:14  <indutny>you are welcome
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00:49:20  <tjfontaine>indutny: did you hear back from upstream on that odd size pr?
00:49:30  <indutny>nope, not yet
00:49:39  <indutny>would be cool to land other TLS fix though
00:49:49  <tjfontaine>7752?
00:50:02  <indutny>yep
00:50:14  <indutny>also, please take a look at https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/7748
00:50:25  <indutny>I am a bit lame to write test for it
00:50:29  <indutny>but perhaps it is needed indeed
00:54:29  <tjfontaine>so I'm ok on this tls fix mostly, I'm curious about the XXX's though
00:54:49  <djoseph>this might have been asked here recently, but is there a way to (safely) call getsockopt on a uv_stream_t *?
00:57:05  <djoseph>safe as in not accessing any private fields
00:59:50  <indutny>tjfontaine: it is just something to consider in future
01:00:11  <indutny>actually
01:00:20  <indutny>you may ignore this commit, if you have doubts about it
01:00:33  <indutny>tjfontaine: let's land other two
01:00:48  <indutny>I'll iterate over that commit later and try to implement all this shit properly
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01:04:48  <bradleymeck>anyone used the counter/histogram callbacks?
01:05:17  <indutny>bradleymeck: ehm?
01:05:44  <bradleymeck>SetCounterFunction , SetCreateHistogramFunction , SetAddHistogramSampleFunction
01:07:06  <tjfontaine>v8 stuff
01:08:09  <tjfontaine>indutny: the other two commits seem fine
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01:10:05  <bradleymeck>docs on the counter/histogram stuff is light, pretty much only the source
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01:11:06  <tjfontaine>bradleymeck: itym all of v8
01:11:21  <bradleymeck>XD yea
01:13:23  <tjfontaine>it's just the source, and every 30 days the rewrite it
01:13:29  <tjfontaine>but it's ok, we've hitched our wagons to it
01:13:47  <bradleymeck>"ok"
01:14:15  <tjfontaine>yes, that's a lot of sarcasm :)
01:14:35  <tjfontaine>to be fair though, roughly the same criticism could be leveled at node
01:14:37  <bradleymeck>whatever happened to the js engine abstraction layer people talk about every so often
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01:14:47  <tjfontaine>I am working on one for us
01:14:53  <tjfontaine>it will be included post 0.12
01:15:01  <bradleymeck>the debugger is going to be brutal
01:15:10  <tjfontaine>well that's not exactly what I mean
01:15:21  <tjfontaine>I mean a C binding layer that makes it such that node could eventually retarget itself :)
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01:16:15  <tjfontaine>indutny: this merge of 0.10 into 0.11 is frustrating, the fix you did for old mode streams in 0.10 breaks a bunch of stuff in 0.11
01:16:33  <indutny>oh gosh
01:16:57  <tjfontaine>I'm looking to see if there's a more subtle fix
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01:22:00  <bradleymeck>tjfontaine: my only concern with an abstraction layer is missing some of the niche features that are amazing
01:22:25  <bradleymeck>would want a big ifdef tree per engine ()maybe only maintain the v8 one
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01:22:45  <tjfontaine>depends on what you mean, for the most part node itself does not need those things to operate
01:23:41  <bradleymeck>well I am mostly thinking about the debugger since I have been looking at that mostly
01:24:24  <tjfontaine>right, there are some things that are destined to be backend specific, the abstraction layer for modules (and our own implementation) wouldn't necessarily handle that
01:24:44  <tjfontaine>to support a new JS backend, you would need to add support for the debugger backend
01:24:47  <tjfontaine>if possible
01:25:22  <tjfontaine>it's not something I'm 100% sold on, but getting ourselves free of having to stick to just v8 would be amazing opportunity for node
01:25:50  <tjfontaine>plus it makes the onramps for people who want to embed node in some other runtime pretty straight forward
01:26:10  <tjfontaine>indutny: some of these could just be bad tests
01:26:28  <tjfontaine>indutny: I went from 11 to 6 failures though by removing some extra code in _stream_readable :)
01:26:46  <indutny>hahaha
01:26:54  <indutny>let me see, what else is failing here
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01:27:02  <indutny>tjfontaine: oh
01:27:04  <indutny>meanwhile
01:27:12  <indutny>what do you think about enabling disassembler by default?
01:27:46  <tjfontaine>I need to look at it, I'm fairly -0.5 on it, I don't really see the usefulness of it
01:28:30  <indutny>the usefulness is that you don't need to rebuild node :)
01:28:44  <indutny>and there are no cons of it
01:28:53  <tjfontaine>I'm not convinced of that for the moment
01:29:01  <tjfontaine>and there are a lot of things you have to rebuild node for
01:29:21  <tjfontaine>and a lot of things you have to restart node for with specific flags so all contexts have them enabled
01:30:02  <indutny>tjfontaine: ok
01:30:04  <bradleymeck>indutny: whats the executable size diff ?
01:30:14  <tjfontaine>it doesn't really change the executable size
01:30:19  <indutny>bradleymeck: I couldn't tell you exact number right now
01:30:22  <tjfontaine>it's about the metadata that v8 keeps while its running, right?
01:30:24  <indutny>but it wasn't really observable
01:30:31  <indutny>tjfontaine: it is not
01:30:42  <indutny>tjfontaine: ok, so regarding events stuff
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01:31:47  <tjfontaine>indutny: the forward port I tried was to nextTick this.resume() in the on data handler
01:32:01  <tjfontaine>indutny: that breaks a bunch, the next step I did was:
01:32:31  <tjfontaine>indutny: to remove https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/lib/_stream_readable.js#L704-L707
01:32:38  <indutny>no-no
01:32:42  <tjfontaine>that brings it down to only 6 failures
01:32:51  <indutny>I think you should call `this.read(0)` in a next tick in `.resume()`
01:33:07  <indutny>I'm currently trying it out
01:33:10  <indutny>brb
01:34:09  <tjfontaine>same failure fwiw
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01:39:15  <indutny>gtg
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01:41:56  <mmalecki>piscisaureus: emaaaaaaail
01:42:19  <bradleymeck>mmalecki: emails are just lies
01:42:43  <mmalecki>bradleymeck: no, that's sales
01:42:49  <mmalecki>bradleymeck: emails are sweet promises
01:42:50  <piscisaureus>mmalecki: what email?
01:42:55  <mmalecki>piscisaureus: beeeeeer
01:43:18  <piscisaureus>mmalecki: ah, not sure if I have time. When would be the idea?
01:43:31  <mmalecki>piscisaureus: this weekend?
01:44:04  <piscisaureus>mmalecki: I think saturday could work - let's see a bit later this week.
01:44:15  <mmalecki>piscisaureus: awesome!
01:44:23  <mmalecki>piscisaureus: let me know :)
01:44:36  <mmalecki>piscisaureus: Dominic Tarr is here and all
01:44:42  <piscisaureus>mmalecki: sure, will do if you hang out here. Oh, cool!
01:44:46  <piscisaureus>how long is he over?
01:44:52  <mmalecki>piscisaureus: up to lxjs
01:46:13  <piscisaureus>mmalecki: ah - ok so there's time. I'll try hard! :)
01:46:21  <mmalecki>piscisaureus: all right
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02:22:04  <indutny>ok, back
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03:18:11  <bradleymeck>tjfontaine: any ideas on where to move the direction of the filename too long on windows issue
03:18:29  <bradleymeck>people still are focused on it being node's problem rather than faulty apps on MS behalf
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15:31:58  <othiym23>bradleymeck: I think framing the discussion that way has proved (in practice) to be unhelpful, because it makes a number of the people in the discussion feel like their concerns aren't being taken seriously
15:32:36  <bradleymeck>bleh, they are very serious concerns, but it would be a crushing blow to change how modules are loaded
15:33:18  <othiym23>I would basically just say, hey, this is the choice we made, there were people from MS involved in the process and they signed off on it, more or less, this system is frozen, if you want to play with it create a fork and ~~~ p a t c h e s w e l c o m e ~~~
15:33:29  <bradleymeck>a ton of it seems that people are commiting things via git and trying to pull down on windows machines
15:33:44  <mmalecki>uhhh, old module names?
15:33:49  <mmalecki>er, long module names?
15:33:52  <bradleymeck>long ones
15:34:03  * mmaleckistill trying to wake up
15:34:10  <othiym23>it's not even long module names, it's long paths under node_modules
15:34:13  <mmalecki>(even tho it's 5 PM)
15:34:14  <bradleymeck>people say because windows apps don't support them (visual studio non-command line / windows git), we cannot say we support windows
15:34:24  <mmalecki>well, no
15:34:33  <mmalecki>certain, broken windows app don't support them
15:35:02  <mmalecki>sorry, but changing *anything* about how node loads modules could result in brokeness which we can't even estimate
15:35:02  <othiym23>mmalecki: problem is that "broken Windows apps" include Explorer, cd, rm, etc
15:35:10  <bradleymeck>it does make certain workflows break if you use those tools. many of which are super common. perhaps we could get a patch into windows git pretty easy though
15:35:25  <mmalecki>othiym23: then consider Windows broken, done
15:35:33  <bradleymeck>othiym23: they are "preserved for backwards compatibility" according to MS
15:35:45  <othiym23>mmalecki: well, OK
15:35:55  <othiym23>that doesn't stop people from yelling about Node not supporting Windows, though
15:36:10  <mmalecki>othiym23: https://github.com/blog/1847-locking-conversations :D
15:36:11  <othiym23>this is a community problem, not a technical one
15:36:27  <mmalecki>othiym23: ^ that's a community solution to that problem :)
15:36:39  <othiym23>as satisfying as that would be, that would just move the conversation elsewhere, and probably make it much more annoying
15:37:35  <othiym23>I really think the key is just to say ETOOLATE and "forks it and see"
15:37:39  <othiym23>*fork
15:37:55  <mmalecki>othiym23: right, but what do we do than? see, I'm the first person to disregard backwards compatibility, but changing this aspect of node *will* break things
15:38:18  <mmalecki>othiym23: right, your idea is good. just tell them to maintain their own version if they want it to work on Windows
15:38:46  <othiym23>I do think that the core team just ignoring the issue isn't going to make it go away
15:39:11  <mmalecki>wait, ignoring problems doesn't make them go away?
15:39:27  <mmalecki>I think I might've been doing my life wrong for a bunch of time
15:39:50  <othiym23>I think Amsterdam's dike maintainers may have some words for you on that subject, mmalecki
15:40:17  <mmalecki>heh
15:40:32  <mmalecki>still tho, I don't think there is a technical solution to this issue
15:40:45  <mmalecki>only some weird link workarounds come to my mind
15:41:05  <bradleymeck>not from our control point, we can probably land a patch to some common utilities
15:41:10  <othiym23>yeah, but telling people that clearly isn't working, it's time to let them get some experience with it
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15:41:40  <othiym23>the amount of work necessary to port node and npm to work with the new structure seems really intimidating to me
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15:41:49  <othiym23>much less to do it in a backwards-compatible way
15:42:05  <othiym23>people acting like the module-as-state pattern is unusual frankly baffle me
15:42:56  <othiym23>bradleymeck: if getting fixes into git addresses the complaints, then it's probably a worthwhile effort
15:43:12  <othiym23>bradleymeck: I think the problem goes deeper than that, though
15:43:16  <othiym23>at least from watching the discussion
15:43:23  <bradleymeck>it gets some of them (probably a decent subset). it does not fix all of them
15:43:52  <bradleymeck>we can also do directory emulation with symlinks which just breaks paths when you go *up* a module tree
15:44:09  <bradleymeck>but the people on the issue hated the idea of symlinks saying it was too complex
15:44:17  <mmalecki>right, but do windows tools handle long symlink paths?
15:44:26  <bradleymeck>mmalecki: some do
15:44:46  <mmalecki>gotta love windows
15:44:55  <bradleymeck>once again, application logic determines how it does crap. if the app realpath()s before operation it works
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15:45:28  <bradleymeck>cd can be done recursively at that point, things work but not in awesome ways
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15:47:12  <bradleymeck>i <3 you git, the fix to that looks like it is just a couple of lines
15:47:13  <othiym23>mmalecki: in this case, it's "gotta love MS-DOS"
15:47:29  <othiym23>because this is definitely a little bit of DOS's legacy peeking through the cracks
15:47:54  <mmalecki>oh yeah, we have to keep in mind that windows still has 16 bit background
15:48:31  <bradleymeck>othiym23: try to make a file called "COM1"
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15:53:53  <othiym23>yeah
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15:54:33  <othiym23>people who insist on straying outside the VS sandbox for doing dev on Windows all sorta seem bonkers to me
15:55:04  <othiym23>cygwin is broken, plain POSIX development on Windows is broken, msys is sorta kinda broken, and you run into caltrops *everywhere*
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16:02:06  <AvianFlu>caltrops
16:02:10  <AvianFlu>what a great analogy for windows
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16:07:29  <piscisaureus>bradleymeck: if you do that with node, you get a file called "com1" :)
16:07:44  <bradleymeck>piscisaureus: sssshhhh
16:08:01  <bradleymeck>we don't mention that we skip aliases when you use long paths
16:08:04  <piscisaureus>there's some bugs in that. You can also create a file "bla....."
16:08:13  <piscisaureus>but the dots at the end screw windows
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16:11:37  <bradleymeck>piscisaureus: many things screw windows, do you know what happens if we put too many files in a folder (where windows normally renames them to shorter ones)
16:12:03  <piscisaureus>bradleymeck: too many files? never encountered that
16:12:20  <bradleymeck>piscisaureus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.3_filename , hilarious log file incident led me to this page
16:12:40  <piscisaureus>bradleymeck: I run into the pathname-too-long issue often. I wonder if the module system could be adapted a little bit to make that better.
16:13:30  <piscisaureus>During the Microsoft antitrust trials, the names MICROS~1 and MICROS~2 were humorously used to refer to the companies that might exist after a proposed split of Microsoft.[6]
16:13:34  <piscisaureus>^-- lol
16:13:59  <piscisaureus>bradleymeck: I couldn't find what happens if you have too many files
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17:08:24  <trevnorris>indutny: I actually work out of the mountain view office.
17:08:33  <trevnorris>indutny: are you here this week?
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17:59:09  <indutny>trevnorris: hey man
17:59:13  <indutny>trevnorris: I see
17:59:41  <trevnorris>indutny: you here this week?
17:59:44  <indutny>trevnorris: yep, I'm here until 18th
18:00:00  <trevnorris>coolio. well, I can drive up to SF. That wouldn't be a problem.
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18:05:38  <indutny>trevnorris: sorry
18:05:43  <indutny>was rebooting
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18:05:46  <trevnorris>np
18:06:03  <indutny>I don't know yet anything about my plans :)
18:06:09  <indutny>but probably we could meet at the end of week
18:06:11  <indutny>if it works for you
18:07:57  <trevnorris>could. need to check on a few meetings i'll be having, but overall sounds good.
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18:41:34  <indutny>ah, nvm
18:41:39  <indutny>much more than this
18:42:06  <indutny>5
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19:52:32  <indutny>yay
19:52:35  <indutny>only 3 failing tests
19:52:44  <tjfontaine>on which?
20:02:56  * stagasquit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
20:05:21  <indutny>yay
20:05:24  <indutny>one failing test
20:05:28  <indutny>test/simple/test-http-abort-stream-end.js
20:05:40  <indutny>I changed the implementation a bit
20:05:46  <indutny>and
20:05:48  <indutny>moved
20:05:48  <indutny>test/disabled/test-stdout-close-unref.js
20:06:05  <indutny>it now fails because .resume() reads data after handle close
20:06:08  <indutny>not sure if this is a big deal
20:07:13  <indutny>brb
20:07:15  <indutny>lunch time
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20:12:18  <tjfontaine>I'm not sure it matters too much, depends though
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20:33:29  * piscisaureus_topic: Liberal utopian void ~ http://logs.libuv.org/libuv ~ http://groups.google.com/group/libuv
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20:50:39  <a_le>i see some code that passes the address of a local uv_getaddrinfo_t variable to uv_getaddrinfo()... if that function returned, or if that variable were to be modified, this would be incorrect, right?
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21:25:11  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: do you have any problems w/ me proceeding w/ https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/7607#issuecomment-45159578
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22:07:41  <indutny>back
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22:20:17  <indutny>tjfontaine: I think we should disable that test
22:20:42  <indutny>as far as I understand http client should not parse new data
22:20:46  <indutny>after res.abort()
22:20:51  <indutny>but it may have some data queued
22:20:59  <indutny>so there is no guarantee that this will always hold
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22:34:04  <indutny>tjfontaine: yt?
22:34:21  <indutny>tjfontaine: if you'll remove streams changes from merge
22:34:23  <indutny>tjfontaine: and apply https://gist.github.com/indutny/8909b18665758fa69835
22:34:30  <indutny>tjfontaine: there should be no failures
22:35:23  <tjfontaine>ok
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22:36:43  <indutny>I'm trying to do it right now
22:36:48  <indutny>fighting with utf8 changes
22:37:07  <tjfontaine>ya I have that part working fine
22:37:17  <tjfontaine>it's not a simple merge, especially because c++ is awful
22:39:58  <tjfontaine>ok give me a moment
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22:49:26  <indutny>tjfontaine: ok
22:49:38  <indutny>tjfontaine: you'll do it, right?
22:49:44  <tjfontaine>yup
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22:50:00  <indutny>ok, great
22:50:05  <indutny>let me know if there are any other failures
22:50:15  <tjfontaine>will do
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22:57:54  <txdv>asd
23:07:43  <chrisdickinson>what are the next steps for PRs with a "LGTM"?
23:08:28  <tjfontaine>one of us should commit it :)
23:08:42  <tjfontaine>code that's been peer reviewed and approved by someone in their subsystem
23:08:57  <chrisdickinson>cool, just making sure I wasn't missing a step :)
23:09:14  <tjfontaine>no, just trying to A) finish a call, B) finish the 0.11 merge
23:10:05  <chrisdickinson>ah cool. thanks!
23:15:59  <tjfontaine>chrisdickinson: re #7732 I think we want to throw on unrecoverable errors, but be graceful on operational errors
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23:18:57  <tjfontaine>I'll comment on this issue
23:19:31  <tjfontaine>I believe there's another ticket open about this
23:20:55  <chrisdickinson>ah, cool. yeah, I was following the discussion from another ticket -- https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/4846
23:21:19  <chrisdickinson>and in the process of fixing https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/7738, I ran into 7732
23:21:35  <tjfontaine>the problem is what is it exactly that c-ares is trying to tell us about the environment when this happens
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23:21:56  <tjfontaine>in the case that what's happening under the hood is EMFILE is being hit -- why is it delivering us ENOENT?
23:22:44  <tjfontaine>so it would be good to know, what are the possible return values that c-ares could be returning here and are some of them indeed non-recoverable and thus should stay a throw
23:23:06  <tjfontaine>also github demerit
23:23:13  <tjfontaine>I wish you had useful search
23:23:41  * chrisdickinsonnods
23:24:06  <chrisdickinson>in the test, I was using ENOENT based on https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/7732#discussion_r13499358
23:25:00  <chrisdickinson>I can take another look and see what kind of errors c-ares can return with (& whether they're unrecoverable)
23:25:51  <tjfontaine>"Something is currently interfering with your secure connection to github.com."
23:25:53  <tjfontaine>hotels are awesome
23:26:00  <tjfontaine>also "thanks chrome"
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23:36:53  <tjfontaine>cmon wifi
23:37:11  <MI6>joyent/node: Timothy J Fontaine merge-review * 1a09da6 : Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/v0.10' - http://git.io/_KPlOQ
23:38:48  <tjfontaine>btw, you can idle in #node-ci and see CI output from the slaves
23:38:55  <tjfontaine>although me jenkins and windows are fighting at the moment
23:40:29  <indutny>tjfontaine: merged?
23:40:29  <indutny>:)
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23:49:55  <a_le>indutny: can you please scroll up to my silly question?
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23:52:05  <a_le>indutny: i find myself wondering the same about write requests... the examples i see have only one write request per connection that they never allocate/free... makes me think they are doing something special to make sure they have at most one outstanding write request per connection at any time...
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