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00:11:40  <MI6>joyent/node: Trevor Norris v0.12 * 7c3c51b : buffer: fix map and set parent to undefined - http://git.io/mKwl8Q
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00:11:46  <trevnorris>jgi: ^
00:13:03  <jgi>trevnorris: thank you for the heads up!
00:13:11  <jgi>trevnorris: I had added a test on my branch too: https://github.com/misterdjules/node/commit/ecf87feaec03d88b402a166bd28242d8ed27eaac
00:13:16  <jgi>trevnorris: you might want to include it
00:13:23  <trevnorris>jgi: yup, and thanks for catching the problem.
00:13:58  <trevnorris>jgi: ah nice. a test. thanks.
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00:40:47  <jgi>trevnorris: do you want me to rebase my PR so that it contains just the test, or do you want to submit the test yourself?
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01:53:36  <othiym23>that change appears to have fixed the issues npm was having with the v0.12 branch, trevnorris
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10:02:52  <MI6>joyent/node: Fedor Indutny v0.12 * 4dbb84f : tls_wrap: ensure that TLSCallbacks are gc-able - http://git.io/Sz1vuw
10:23:44  <txdv>saghul: dude don't be so serious
10:24:03  <txdv>sorry for snarky comments, but sarcasm is the only thing i can get through this shit world of mine
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10:31:33  <txdv>saghul: don't take too seriously
10:32:52  <txdv>saghul: please forgive me, I need your comments because this big pile of shit is hard to process on my own
10:33:23  <txdv>like a I need a partner to get through this world, I need you to go through the process of writing libuv patches <3
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10:36:46  <saghul>txdv: going for another round of review
10:40:01  <txdv>this patch is getting so big
10:40:12  <txdv>for something as simple as just queing write requests
10:41:18  <saghul>turns out, it's not that simple :-)
10:43:32  <txdv>its not a deal breaker but requires a lot of work
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14:42:22  <txdv>saghul:
14:42:29  <txdv>we need post processing timers
14:42:37  <txdv>for connection and write timeouts
14:42:59  <saghul>i don't follow, can you elaborate?
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14:43:16  <saghul>post, as in, after what?
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14:44:14  <txdv>saghul: all the timers are currently triggered before the socket events are triggered, right?
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14:49:39  <txdv>now imagine i have a socket connection event and a corresponding timeout
14:49:44  <txdv>and they trigger both in the same run
14:49:57  <txdv>so the timeout gets triggered first, even though the connection arrived right on time
14:56:46  <saghul>txdv: well, you can't cancel the connection, so the fact that you set a timer means nothing to libuv
14:57:51  <saghul>txdv: also, i/o callbacks run on the iteration when they happen, unless we explicitly defer them
14:58:09  <saghul>(like write completion callbacks)
14:59:37  <txdv>when a tick is executed
14:59:40  <txdv>is the timer called first?
15:00:09  <saghul>txdv: the connect callback will be executed right before uv__io_poll
15:00:19  <saghul>(unix reference)
15:02:37  <txdv>so
15:02:41  <txdv>run timers, run io poll
15:02:50  <saghul>yes
15:03:04  <txdv>is there a post run object?
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15:03:22  <saghul>it's a loop, so timers will come around again
15:03:33  <saghul>but you have the check handles right after polling for i/o
15:03:59  <txdv>the scenario i have in mind is
15:04:01  <txdv>I have a connection callback
15:04:18  <txdv>and i have a timer which checks for the connection callback timeout
15:04:35  <txdv>now imagine the timeout occures
15:04:51  <txdv>the timer gets called first
15:05:01  <txdv>but uv_io_poll would actually deliver right on time
15:05:09  <txdv>but since we called the timers first, we close the connection
15:05:55  <txdv>Do you understand what I mean?
15:06:10  <saghul>yeah
15:06:27  <saghul>but here is the catch: when you set a timer, it affects the poll time
15:07:04  <saghul>uv__io_poll blocks for a given timeout, so if there is only one timer, the due time is the timeout
15:07:22  <saghul>now, if uv__io_poll returned, and your timer callback is called, it means the connection didn't complete on time
15:07:37  <txdv>o makes sense
15:08:09  <txdv>it blocks, right, when it happens within then it executes it
15:08:31  <txdv>i have forgotten of blocking functions
15:08:37  <txdv>thanks to libuv
15:08:52  <txdv>about*
15:08:56  <txdv>whatever
15:09:02  <txdv>care to go take a look at my comments on that pull request?
15:09:11  <txdv>we have been birthing that baby for too long
15:09:28  <txdv>and I see already 3 more pull requests comming from this one
15:09:41  <saghul>a bit later gotta finish some work stuff
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15:59:44  <txdv>saghul: are we doing ASSERT(UV_EBADF == expr)
15:59:50  <txdv>or ASSERT(expr == UV_EBADF)
16:02:43  <saghul>I think we use the first one mostly
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16:12:58  <indutny>tjfontaine: morning
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16:13:11  <tjfontaine>indutny: morning https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/8439
16:15:41  <indutny>tjfontaine: I think the first commit is messed up
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16:15:58  <tjfontaine>indutny: bah
16:16:11  <indutny>also
16:16:15  <indutny>asked a question on github
16:16:16  <tjfontaine>how did git screw this up
16:16:17  <indutny>:)
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16:19:48  <tjfontaine>commented, I will fix the git commits
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16:27:23  <tjfontaine>indutny: fixed the commits
16:27:26  <indutny>thanks man
16:27:33  <indutny>left a comment
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16:36:14  <indutny>tjfontaine: how does it change the path from slow to hot https://github.com/tjfontaine/node/commit/7e5488585d34e02cae17c2c602ceaf7eb15c307e ?
16:36:43  <indutny>also this one contains only docs and tests
16:36:43  <indutny>https://github.com/tjfontaine/node/commit/98d9608e461479ff27692155d0174e47b1b68304
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16:38:06  <tjfontaine>I think you're still on the cached version
16:38:17  <indutny>tjfontaine: I think there is just a mistake in my commit :)
16:38:26  <indutny>remember hot = false thing?
16:38:30  <indutny>the condition should be
16:38:31  <tjfontaine>https://github.com/tjfontaine/node/commit/98801505497b9cb3f0798d5cc58678aeb3a47f1a
16:38:32  <indutny>!this._hasBody
16:38:54  <indutny>this will make HEAD responses a bit slower
16:39:02  <indutny>but in fact this doesn't matter much\
16:39:05  <indutny>since they do not have data
16:39:27  <tjfontaine>ya, the hot path check doesn't need to be done, because if they call end() with any data it will throw
16:40:03  <tjfontaine>therefore we're only ever in the if(!hot) path
16:40:39  <indutny>oh
16:40:40  <indutny>right
16:40:46  <indutny>ok, so that commit LGTM
16:41:04  <indutny>sorry, I made a mistake there
16:41:27  <tjfontaine>ya that one I'm less concerned with, it was just raised by trevnorris
16:41:40  <jgi>trevnorris: I just added a PR that adds a test for your fix: https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/8440
16:42:27  <indutny>tjfontaine: yep
16:42:28  <tjfontaine>jgi: thanks I'll add that
16:42:32  <indutny>so the trailing thing
16:42:46  <indutny>I guess you have some user that wants this
16:42:49  <indutny>is this right?
16:42:53  <tjfontaine>the problem is we don't treat it as a protocol violation, because we successfully consume the stream
16:42:54  <indutny>s/right/correct/
16:43:00  <tjfontaine>it was brought up in #node.js
16:43:06  <indutny>tjfontaine: ok, anyway
16:43:17  <indutny>I think it is treated as a violation
16:43:27  <indutny>I thought it has raised a parse error
16:44:05  <indutny>how could it know that this connection is still could be used for future communications
16:44:29  <jgi>tjfontaine: thanks :)
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17:19:56  <MI6>joyent/node: Julien Gilli v0.12 * 2f7234d : tests: add test for buffer.slice. - http://git.io/a6scpA
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18:21:23  <chrisdickinson>to clarify, frozen APIs in node are guaranteed to not change in the future, even non-breaking additive changes?
18:24:36  <a_le>so, there's libuv 0.11 which is now stable, 0.12 which is unstable and then there is 1.0.0-rc1, which I suppose is stable??
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18:25:13  <kaeso>a_le: go for 1.0.0-rc1
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18:26:06  <kaeso>a_le: (if you are looking for the *next* incarnation of libuv)
18:26:33  <kaeso>a_le: otherwise the 0.10.x series is the official stable, old API
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18:27:25  <a_le>kaeso: I am currently on 0.11 because the API is more consistent
18:27:43  <a_le>kaeso: how many changes are there gonna be between 0.12 and 1.0.0, api-wise?
18:28:17  <kaeso>a_le: 0.12 will actually be 1.0.0
18:28:22  <a_le>i see
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18:28:35  <a_le>and between 0.11 and 0.12?
18:28:55  <a_le>it's not like with old linux kernels, that even and odd are stable and unstable, is it?
18:29:11  <kaeso>a_le: that was the original idea
18:29:26  <a_le>but somewhere I read that 0.11 is gonna be stable...
18:29:33  <a_le>so 0.12 is a blessed 0.11?
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18:29:43  <kaeso>a_le: but then semver came during the 0.11 devel cycle
18:29:54  <a_le>semver?
18:30:05  <kaeso>a_le: so 0.12 (which doesn't exist) got renamed to 1.0.0
18:30:13  <kaeso>a_le: semantic versioning
18:30:27  <a_le>what does it mean, semantic?
18:30:41  <a_le>even / odd?
18:30:43  <kaeso>a_le: http://semver.org/
18:31:12  <a_le>i see
18:31:14  <a_le>thanks!
18:31:35  <a_le>is 0.12 / 1.0.0 gonna be incompatible with 0.11 ?
18:31:55  <a_le>i feel like 0.11 should have been renamed to 1.0.0, given it broke compatibility with 0.10
18:32:51  <kaeso>a_le: no, you are safe
18:33:25  <a_le>so, in my configure.ac I should request libuv >= 0.11, given 0.11 should suffice to work with my code
18:36:05  <kaeso>a_le: 0.11.x API changed a lot between each .x release, double check the signatures
18:36:32  <a_le>ugh
18:36:40  <a_le>so I should request >= 0.12
18:37:34  <saghul>rc2 will have a migration guide
18:40:00  <kaeso>saghul: it looks like the build-queue on arm64 is quite huge, so I'm still waiting to see autobuilder results
18:40:45  <kaeso>mmmh, maybe it was indutny who asked for a test-upload on arm64, I don't remember
18:41:13  <saghul>kaeso: I did ask you to test the epoll_pwait patch
18:43:12  <saghul>kaeso: just update the GH issue when a build completes please :-)
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19:39:52  <txdv>saghul: still no comment?
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19:43:57  <saghul>txdv: sorry, got a melted brain tonight :-( will review in the morning with a fresher brain
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19:47:49  <txdv>saghul: two rather simple comments to review for now
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19:48:18  <txdv>uv__is_closing being unix only in 4 places and the new name on uv__write_callbacks
19:49:33  <saghul>txdv: uv_is_closing is what you want on windows, IIRC
19:49:44  * saghulneeds to unify all that
19:49:58  <saghul>about the name, did I suggest one?
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19:51:01  <txdv>saghul: no, yeah you did, i suggested a more specific one
19:51:19  <saghul>oh, let me check
19:51:43  <txdv>yes you did i mean
19:51:50  <txdv>i ust suggested a more specific one
19:53:03  <saghul>commented
19:55:12  * AlexisMochaquit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
19:56:53  <txdv>saghul: this patch man, adding write queue after connect adds 300 lines of code and requires a shitload of time to add
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20:11:00  <txdv>saghul: why does nobody care about libuv?
20:11:22  <txdv>its running everywhere with node
20:11:30  <txdv>and we still have out of memory aborts in the code
20:12:19  <KennethWilke>from my perspective I actually like writing C and would like an event lib that's clean, fast and makes my life easier rather than adding an extra thing to learn
20:12:49  <KennethWilke>so i care about it! though i have minimal interest in node
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20:13:17  <txdv>well people who write js don't care if their apps will crash or not when they are out of memory
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20:13:48  <KennethWilke>yeah, i'm not on that boat, i clutch valgrind the entire time i'm writing code
20:13:58  <txdv>i actually wonder, what does node do when libuv returns UV_ENOMEM?
20:14:16  <txdv>does it raise an exception?
20:14:25  <KennethWilke>lol
20:14:35  <KennethWilke>that's gotta be the hardest condition to handle gracefully
20:17:05  <txdv>well, abort the request? close all resources used in that?
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20:17:31  <txdv>i mean javascript in the browser, whatever, out of memory, deal with it
20:17:37  <txdv>but node is mean to be for javascript on the server
20:17:46  <KennethWilke>yeah
20:18:04  <txdv>and if you have that one request that was too much and that just quits the entire app
20:18:31  <KennethWilke>as little as i like javascript, it does seem to be great for the underlying event system
20:18:53  <KennethWilke>the js devs already being used to event based stuff
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20:19:06  <txdv>it has lambda functions thats all there is to the greatness related to event systems
20:19:19  <txdv>and nested callbacks actually suck
20:19:33  <KennethWilke>looking at those 'promises' does make vomit in the mouth
20:19:51  <KennethWilke>i prefer to keep looking at it from a C perspective, just a buncha pointers
20:20:20  <txdv>im using galaxy
20:21:50  <txdv>well its basically blocking call syntax on top of asynchronous code
20:22:13  <txdv>async C# for javascript
20:22:45  <KennethWilke>hmm, interesting
20:23:55  <txdv>https://github.com/bjouhier/galaxy/issues/15
20:23:58  <txdv>an example
20:24:09  <txdv>the interesting part starts at the first galaxy.main
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20:25:18  <txdv>KennethWilke: I don't know, are you familiar with C# async await functionality?
20:25:56  <KennethWilke>i am not, i've not used C# before
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20:31:42  <txdv>all blocking calls in js are fucntions with a callback function in their parameter
20:31:55  <txdv>so they dont block
20:32:32  <txdv>the callback is called when the io is finished
20:34:29  <txdv>as they are in libuv
20:34:35  <txdv>but that makes the code look ugly
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20:34:55  <txdv>because everytime you have a function that does some io, you have a callback
20:35:06  <KennethWilke>yeah, i've written a lot of ugly javascript
20:35:15  <txdv>ok
20:35:30  <KennethWilke>when people show me their thing().more().things().such().a('damn').long(line);
20:35:46  <KennethWilke>i want to lose it
20:35:46  <KennethWilke>lol
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20:38:10  <KennethWilke>and with jquery i can't count how many anonymous functions i cluttered code with
20:39:07  <txdv>https://github.com/bjouhier/galaxy
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20:40:03  <trevnorris>othiym23: great. glad it's fixed. glad it was caught so quickly.
20:41:16  <txdv>KennethWilke: basically with ECMA6 and galaxy you can write code like this: somefunction (function () { steps(); }) like this: yield somefunction(); steps()
20:41:18  <trevnorris>txdv: did you post another PR for the Windows patch you closed recently?
20:41:35  <txdv>yes
20:41:37  <txdv>i did
20:42:15  <txdv>https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1487
20:42:54  <txdv>trevnorris: why are you so interested in it?
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20:44:37  <trevnorris>jgi: thanks for the test PR
20:45:18  <jgi>trevnorris: no problem!
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20:49:52  <trevnorris>txdv: yeah. though I don't care for Windows, having better feature parity between platforms is important to me.
20:52:28  <txdv>but you have volunteered to write that patch yourself if dont finish it
20:53:18  <trevnorris>txdv: well, I volunteered to give it a try. there was no guarantee that I could actually do it. :P
20:53:28  <trevnorris>I'd just like to see this in before the full 1.0 release.
20:53:59  <txdv>this patch is a minor issue before a real 1.0 release
20:55:04  <txdv>while i worked on this i have discovered 2 possible patches which would totally break the 1.0 semvar api barrier
20:55:20  <saghul>but i changes ABI, so we'll wait for it to be properly finished, have an rcX and then a final release
20:55:41  <saghul>s/i/it/
20:56:28  <saghul>txdv: I like to think that people don't care because it just works :-P
20:56:41  <saghul>(most of the time!)
20:57:23  <txdv>pipe_connect has to be rewritten, api break
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20:57:34  <tjfontaine>chrisdickinson: were you able to see anything in the domain crypto failure?
20:57:38  <txdv>uv_shutdown has to be rewritten to get it with unix on parity, api break
20:57:42  <chrisdickinson>not yet :\
20:58:03  <tjfontaine>chrisdickinson: it's ok, I was just curious, looking through the test failures for 0.12 branch before we cut the release
20:58:07  <tjfontaine>the 0.11.14 release
20:58:22  <saghul|afk>txdv: pipe_connect might make in on time, we can kill 2 birds with one shot
20:58:52  <txdv>i havent check the windows implementation
20:59:00  <txdv>checked*
20:59:06  <saghul|afk>txdv: pl open an issue with what you discovered about shutdown
20:59:26  <txdv>well its the same with write_after_connect
20:59:28  <saghul|afk>but I don't want to open the door and delay the release for ever either
20:59:34  <saghul|afk>ah, choices!
20:59:46  <txdv>you have uv_connect; uv_write; uv_shutdown;
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21:00:07  <txdv>it has to be enqueued and executed if connect/write fails
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21:00:44  <a_le>is there a way to retrieve the current loop a callback is being invoked from?
21:00:49  <saghul|afk>not sure if we wan to do that
21:00:58  <saghul|afk>a_le: what kind of callback?
21:01:06  <a_le>something a la default_loop(), but really current_loop()...
21:01:17  <txdv>handle->loop?
21:01:20  <saghul|afk>txdv: anyway, let's discuss on the mailing list or GH, so we don't forget
21:01:22  <a_le>saghul|afk: in my case, sockets
21:01:30  <a_le>txdv, thanks :)
21:01:32  <saghul|afk>the handle->loop
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21:01:42  <a_le>so I need to cast to uv_handle_t
21:01:44  <saghul|afk>if it's some request, usually req->loop
21:01:47  <a_le>and then look at the loop
21:01:49  <txdv>saghul|afk: i dont forget shit like this
21:01:56  <txdv>saghul|afk: req->handle->loop
21:02:04  <txdv>maybe the request has a loop variable too
21:02:09  <saghul|afk>txdv: not all requests have a handle
21:02:25  <a_le>so, sometimes the information is redundant?
21:02:27  <txdv>the dirty once which are executed in threads dont have one
21:02:28  <saghul|afk>also, it's all in the docs!
21:02:58  <a_le>txdv: which dirty ones are you talking about? stuff that is not really asynchronous?
21:03:10  <saghul|afk>http://docs.libuv.org/en/latest/handle.html#c.uv_handle_t.loop
21:03:27  <saghul|afk>a_le: all uv_fs_* runs on the threadpool
21:03:55  <a_le>saghul|afk: thanks :)
21:03:58  <txdv>we have thread pool for file operations on unix, everything you do with files on unix is basically a cover up for a thread pool and executing blocking calls
21:04:03  <saghul|afk>but those do have a loop: http://docs.libuv.org/en/latest/fs.html#c.uv_fs_t.loop
21:04:12  <a_le>by the way, i see a few threads in my process, but I am not creating them
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21:04:28  <saghul|afk>a_le: libuv creates a threadpool of 4
21:04:36  <a_le>saghul|afk: yes!
21:04:45  <a_le>i see 4 of them
21:04:47  <saghul|afk>uv_fd_*, uv_queue_work, uv_getaddrinfo and uv_getnameinfo use it
21:04:51  <a_le>can it still work without them?
21:04:55  <saghul|afk>uv_fs_*, that is
21:05:01  <txdv>for apis that don't have an asynchronous counter part on the OS level, libuv uses a threadpool
21:05:10  <saghul|afk>no if you want any of those apis to work
21:05:18  <a_le>ugh, i need getaddrinfo
21:05:22  * iarnajoined
21:05:23  <a_le>:(
21:05:28  <saghul|afk>then you need the threadpool
21:05:47  <a_le>but only one of our users need not to have threads
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21:05:59  <a_le>so, I could run getaddrinfo synchronously for that user
21:06:04  <saghul|afk>what kind of environment is that?
21:06:09  <saghul|afk>yeah, you could
21:06:26  <a_le>saghul|afk: crazy embedded stuff with not even segmentation... O_o
21:06:31  <saghul|afk>good luck if the async police catches you though!
21:06:38  <a_le>saghul|afk: LOL
21:06:39  <saghul|afk>oh!
21:06:54  <a_le>btw, how do i disable these threadpools?
21:07:00  <txdv>getaddrinfo can be implemented on top of libuvs udp functionality
21:07:13  <a_le>txdv: nice!
21:07:33  <a_le>txdv: is there an example laying around?
21:07:44  <txdv>what os are you using a_le?
21:07:47  <saghul|afk>well, you could just use c-ares and do some A and AAAA queries, but getting getaddrinfo right is not easy
21:07:59  <a_le>txdv: it's proprietary stuff
21:08:02  <tjfontaine>trevnorris, indutny, chrisdickinson, jgi: anyone mind if I disable test-dgram-bind-shared-ports.js on windows?
21:08:05  <a_le>cisco iOS
21:08:08  <a_le>IOS
21:08:20  <a_le>but i am not using it
21:08:21  <a_le>they are
21:08:34  <txdv>well the closes thing i can suggest for you to use is the linux getaddrinfo and use libuv instead of all the blocking socking calls
21:08:37  <txdv>socket calls *
21:09:06  <a_le>txdv: is there a queue for these fake-asynchronous operations?
21:09:24  <saghul|afk>yes, look in src/threadpool.c
21:09:25  <jgi>tjfontaine: let me take a look at it
21:09:30  <a_le>like, there is a threadpool, but what happens when there are more requests than threads? are they queued or do they block?
21:09:40  <a_le>saghul|afk: great, thank you!
21:09:41  <saghul|afk>a_le: they are queued
21:09:49  <a_le>saghul|afk: perfect!
21:10:05  <tjfontaine>jgi: it's throwing enotsup because cluster+dgram isn't supported on widnows
21:10:09  <tjfontaine>so the test just shouldn't run there
21:10:35  <jgi>tjfontaine: ok, then yes I don’t mind
21:10:46  <jgi>tjfontaine: thanks for the heads up
21:12:04  <txdv>wtf is cluster
21:12:25  <trevnorris>txdv: in terms of node or libuv?
21:12:41  <txdv>there is no cluster in libuv
21:13:12  <tjfontaine>trevnorris, indutny, chrisdickinson: https://gist.github.com/tjfontaine/987ad63f36fa73f33137 as a strawman
21:13:13  <txdv>./src/win/fs.c: * IOW it's all just a clusterfuck and we should think of something that
21:13:19  <txdv>the only mentioning of cluster in libuv
21:13:54  <chrisdickinson>lgtm!
21:14:54  <saghul|afk>txdv: cluster is basically node forking the process X times, accepting connections in the master and sending handles (uv_write2) to workers
21:15:28  <txdv>and it cant send udp handles on windows?
21:16:10  <txdv>with it i mean the windows os
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21:17:02  <saghul|afk>txdv: only sending TCP handles is supported on Windows
21:17:21  <txdv>well
21:17:31  <txdv>nobody gives a fuck about udp anyway
21:17:32  <saghul|afk>by supported I mean, in libuv
21:17:40  <saghul|afk>well, I for one do
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21:18:07  <saghul|afk>my day job involves realtime audio / video, you don't want to use TCP there
21:18:10  <MI6>joyent/node: Timothy J Fontaine v0.12 * f773fb4 : test: disable dgram-bind-shared-ports on win32 - http://git.io/C2Py4A
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21:19:29  <KennethWilke>+1 the caring for UDP
21:21:14  <txdv>i see now that you have done some patches to fix udp parity
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21:23:01  <saghul|afk>ok, now I'm leaving for real, sleep tight everyone!
21:23:32  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: fine w/ me.
21:23:38  <txdv>KennethWilke: i commited 3 changes to udp
21:23:48  <KennethWilke><3 you
21:24:05  <txdv>and the sorry ass state ass state they were in
21:24:20  <txdv>i mean the code before
21:24:27  <txdv>was "nobody cares about udp"
21:24:56  <txdv>o yeah, there was also a bug in node
21:25:50  <txdv>send an empty udp package to a linux node udp socket and it would return null in its callbacks instead of the size of the received packet
21:26:32  <txdv>o and that size was always the maxmimum buffer size, not the actual received udp packet size
21:27:16  <txdv>that day i found out that there is a node github bot which gives you bitcoins for patches
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21:29:11  <txdv>i received a 0.10$ for that patch
21:30:01  <txdv>all the bums here in germany ask for one euro when they are approaching you
21:30:37  <KennethWilke>lols
21:31:44  <tjfontaine>trevnorris, indutny, chrisdickinson, jgi: thoughts on npm 2.0.0 in this?
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21:32:00  <tjfontaine>I mean, if we're going to do it at least have one round before we find out if we're goign to have to revert
21:32:17  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: +/-0 from me. what will that mean for v0.10 support?
21:33:00  <tjfontaine>different conversation, but npm has intimated 1.4.28 will be the last of 1.4.x releases
21:33:40  <jgi>tjfontaine: you mean do we want another 0.11 release with npm 2.0?
21:33:52  <tjfontaine>well we're doing an 0.11 release now
21:33:58  <tjfontaine>should it have npm 2.0.0 or not?
21:34:15  <trevnorris>well I think it's a pertinent question since we'll maintain v0.10 support along with v0.12 (meaning hopefully users will still be able to do `npm install` in v0.10 after v0.12 is released)
21:35:04  <tjfontaine>there is a conversation about how we support npm on 0.10, but I do not think it relates to this question here for 0.11 and what we want to ship in 0.12 -- I do not think it's hard to support multiple versions in two separate branches
21:35:39  <tjfontaine>but a backwards compatibility question of 1.4 installs for people publishing with 2.0 is more about npmjs than it is about us?
21:36:34  <trevnorris>technically correct, but who's going to get the blame if v0.10 can't publish? while it "technically" is npm, node.js will still get the heat.
21:37:08  <trevnorris>either way, i'm fine w/ including npm 2.0 in the next v0.11 release.
21:37:25  <trevnorris>just brining up points that we'll have to face before v0.12 is released.
21:38:17  <a_le>saghul|afk, txdv: can I always assume that all incoming data for a give tcp peer will be coming from that uv_tcp_t's loop?
21:38:42  <tjfontaine>chrisdickinson, indutny, jgi: thoughts, feelings, concerns?
21:38:43  <a_le>(that would simplify things a lot)
21:38:53  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: also duly noted, I'm very well aware
21:39:04  <txdv>a_le: yes
21:39:16  <jgi>tjfontaine: I haven’t had time to check the list of changes in npm 2.0 to fully understand the impact of including it in this release
21:39:24  <jgi>tjfontaine: I’m doing this right now, I should have done it much earlier…
21:39:38  <chrisdickinson>i'm fine with v2.0.0 going out with v0.11
21:40:02  <tjfontaine>jgi: well, adoption rates of unstables are always low, so if it turns out it breaks something drastic, then the surface area will be minimal
21:40:13  <tjfontaine>jgi: as compared to trying this out on the real 0.12 release
21:40:22  <chrisdickinson>it expands the amount of time + people that might try to use npm before 0.12 (which I imagine would go out with v2.0.0)
21:40:33  <jgi>tjfontaine: right
21:40:57  <a_le>txdv: thanks :) :) :)
21:41:35  <tjfontaine>ok I'm going to go with it fo rnow
21:41:39  <tjfontaine>[adding it]
21:41:47  <txdv>i think that every loop has its own thread pool
21:42:29  <txdv>so even if you were to execute a call which basically a blocking call in a thread pool would be ran 'in its own thread pool'
21:44:17  <tjfontaine>immediately after this release we're going to fix the authors file
21:46:18  <tjfontaine>I can't fix this right now, so I'm going to not do it
21:47:10  <MI6>joyent/node: tjfontaine created branch v0.11.14-release - http://git.io/6Cavsw
21:48:14  <tjfontaine>http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/nodejs-release/66/
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21:48:22  <saghul|afk>txdv: the threadpool is global
21:48:22  <tjfontaine>indutny: ^^
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21:48:40  <tjfontaine>I have to run, but I should be back jsut as all the builds are finishing
21:50:56  <txdv>saghul|afk: that sucks
21:53:59  <trevnorris>i'm going to prefix and postfix all private members with an _. this way any attempt to document them in markdown will just result in them being highlighted. :P
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22:24:42  <trevnorris>txdv: hope you don't mind my reviewing your PR. :)
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22:47:52  <trevnorris>tjfontaine / indutny: https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/8442
22:49:42  <MI6>joyent/node: Robert Kowalski v0.12 * efa47e5 : benchmark: add test for module loader - http://git.io/nKLWqQ
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23:08:30  <MI6>joyent/node: Patrick Mooney v0.12 * b26dd4e : net: Make server.connections un-enumerable - http://git.io/V86HtA
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23:36:54  <tjfontaine>ok so
23:37:02  <tjfontaine>who wants to try the new 0.11.14 binaries before we push live?
23:37:19  <tjfontaine>chrisdickinson, jgi, trevnorris, indutny: ?
23:37:47  <chrisdickinson>I'll give 'em a whirl on osx, and I have a centos vbox spun up too
23:37:50  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: sure. how do you want me to test?
23:38:28  <tjfontaine>I'm going to move the files into place, and they'll be in dist/v0.11.14 but I won't do any pushes to the public repos until we can validate them
23:39:23  * iarnajoined
23:39:38  <jgi>tjfontaine: you want to test that the files themselves are usable, not only that the changes work right?
23:40:07  <tjfontaine>jgi: I want to test that as much of node you can use works, and that there aren't any glaring problems before we go wide with the news its out there :)
23:40:19  * chrisdickinsonplans to run the hapi tests
23:40:58  <jgi>tjfontaine: I’m trying to access jenkins.nodejs.org/job/nodejs-v012-apps/, but Jenkins doesn’t respond for this URL right now
23:41:34  <jgi>tjfontaine: this job should be running the tests of several apps (like hapi) against the tip of v0.12 right now
23:42:07  <tjfontaine>jgi: did it end up responding?
23:42:12  <jgi>tjfontaine: yes
23:42:22  <tjfontaine>ok, [jenkins sucks]
23:42:24  <jgi>tjfontaine: I’m checking what commit it’s testing
23:42:29  <tjfontaine>http://nodejs.org/dist/v0.11.14/
23:43:54  <jgi>tjfontaine: yep. so this job: http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/nodejs-v012-apps/40/ is testing the tip of v0.12
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23:44:49  <tjfontaine>jgi: the onyl difference is that tip of 0.12 doesn't have npm 2.0.0 only the release branch right now -- it will once I merge it back in
23:45:30  <jgi>tjfontaine: ok, you generated the binaries from a local branch?
23:45:38  <tjfontaine>jgi: from v0.11.14-release branch
23:45:45  <tjfontaine>as opposed to v0.12
23:45:47  <jgi>ok
23:46:53  <jgi>tjfontaine: I’m going to setup a new job that uses this branch
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23:47:15  <tjfontaine>jgi: ok or just modify that job start a build, wait for it to actually kick off, and then change it back?
23:48:19  <tjfontaine>oh there are some extra files in that directory that need removed
23:49:42  <jgi>tjfontaine: http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/nodejs-apps-0-11-14-release/2/
23:49:47  <jgi>tjfontaine: I’ll let you know when it’s done
23:50:12  <chrisdickinson>looks ok on osx thus far
23:50:25  <chrisdickinson>seeing some issues on centos but that might be down to my vm setup, double checking now
23:51:44  <tjfontaine>jgi: thanks
23:51:49  <tjfontaine>chrisdickinson: what sorts of issues
23:52:30  <chrisdickinson>ah, think it's my vm. double checking
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23:52:37  <jgi>tjfontaine: no problem
23:52:46  <jgi>tjfontaine: I’m going to do some manual tests too
23:52:51  <tjfontaine>jgi: please and thank you
23:53:19  <chrisdickinson>looks good on centos
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23:54:13  <chrisdickinson>& seems like it's good on osx -- ran hapi tests, used npm2 to install hapi and run the tests as well
23:54:15  <jgi>tjfontaine: installing on windows
23:58:09  <jgi>tjfontaine: so far so good, testing express right now
23:58:20  <tjfontaine>jgi: excellent
23:59:57  <jgi>tjfontaine: there’s one failing test for express, I’m going to try to reproduce it on OS X and Linux