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00:02:46  <solenoids>SrPx: no, you cannot read files from a user's computer from the browser, that would be a huge security flaw
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00:02:50  <solenoids>what you can do however
00:02:57  <solenoids>is use <input type=file>
00:03:26  <solenoids>you can extract the data out of a file selection input using html5 apis
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00:04:16  <solenoids>pulpfiction: tests in mocha have to be defined synchronously
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00:04:31  <solenoids>I don't know much about mocha, but there's some special way to do what you're trying to do
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00:05:34  <pulpfiction>solenoids, mocha supports async, i'm also just not sure if i'm doing it right :(
00:05:57  <solenoids>yes, but the tests have to be defined sync
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00:06:21  <solenoids>so you can't wrap it in a callback like your example
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00:08:46  <pulpfiction>hmm but then how would i setup my tests if i require something that will be created async?
00:09:00  <SrPx>solenoids: yes, that was what I was asking. Thank you, and sorry.
00:09:29  <solenoids>pulpfiction: this might be useful http://stackoverflow.com/a/24862303/1905720
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00:10:45  <kinduff>Hello. I'm trying to integrate i18next into https://github.com/outoftime/learnpad, I'm using i18next-client and I'm loading locale files inside /src/locales/lang/file.json, but I get a 404 even though the file is in the directory. How can I load this files into the server?
00:10:50  <pulpfiction>solenoids, actually, no. using promises and returning the promise in the before callback is working good, the tests wait the before hook to be executed alright
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00:11:37  <pulpfiction>solenoids, the problem is it's not really finding my tests... probably because all my describe's and it's are inside a promise
00:11:44  <solenoids>yes
00:11:58  <solenoids>the tests file is executed, all the defines and its are run
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00:12:01  <solenoids>but then 5 seconds later
00:12:07  <solenoids>another batch of defines and its are run
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00:12:28  <solenoids>because you can't wrap defines and its in a callback that gets called on another tick
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00:12:42  <pulpfiction>i see
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00:12:54  <solenoids>so you have to use before() with a handler that has a `done` callback
00:13:15  <pulpfiction>the before() hook is alright with the promise
00:13:24  <solenoids>var searchProcess; before(function(done) { dostuff(function() { searchProcess = stuff; done() }) })
00:13:28  <solenoids>something like that
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00:13:47  <solenoids>(or if mocha supports promises, return it instead of calling done)
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00:14:08  <pulpfiction>ok, i'll try to write something like that
00:14:25  <pulpfiction>will be verrrry verbose, but if it needs to be :(
00:14:27  <pulpfiction>thanks solenoids
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00:17:43  <helpneeded222>Is it possible to embed an IRC chat client using node.js on a web page along with an iFrame that contains the rest of the content?
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00:18:09  <solenoids>helpneeded222: node.js is a runtime that runs on the server
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00:19:08  <solenoids>browserify exists, but it would be impossible to run an IRC client in a browser for security reasons
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00:19:58  <solenoids>do you mean, have a node.js app serving a page that is an IRC client over websockets or something?
00:20:17  <ljharb>of course you can have an irc client in a browser
00:20:23  <ljharb>but it'd have to connect through a server proxy.
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00:21:09  <solenoids>yeah, which means it's really just a client of a TCP/IRC proxy server, rather than a direct client of an IRC server
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00:21:31  <substack>solenoids: the browser could still speak the irc protocol
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00:21:52  <solenoids>substack: can't you only do that with adobe flash/java?
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00:22:18  <substack>irc is ordinary text
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00:22:44  <ljharb>the browser won't allow direct communication with the irc server tho
00:22:48  <solenoids>yeah
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00:29:39  <faceleg>are db reads generally async or sync?
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00:30:52  <deltab>async: they typically involved talking over network connections, accessing files, or both
00:30:59  <deltab>^involve
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00:31:02  <faceleg>right
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00:31:12  <faceleg>the person explaining this to me means that it takes an entire loop
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00:31:40  <deltab>meaning an iteration of the event loop?
00:31:41  <faceleg>so although the call is in fact async, each read "consumes" a loop
00:31:44  <faceleg>yeah
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00:32:32  <faceleg>does this mean that if you had a db-read heavy app then you'd need more node processes to handle the incoming requests?
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00:33:33  <deltab>eh?hmm
00:33:37  <deltab>oops
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01:00:15  <dogarrhea>is there a node.js binding for sikuli?
01:00:20  * Narigoquit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:00:59  <dogarrhea>or is it just me writing sikuli scripts, compiling into some pyc or other executable and somehow running it through IPC from node.js
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01:07:24  <Schalken>Why does child_process.spawn('cat') not return immediately?
01:07:47  * charuruquit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:07:52  <solenoids>it does
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01:08:22  <Schalken>solenoids: Not for me. :( It seems to block waiting for input to be given to the node process, for some reason.
01:09:03  <Schalken>solenoids: http://pastebin.com/3WQnjDb7
01:09:27  <Schalken>If I run that in my shell with a simple "node test.js", the "spawned" line doesn't show up until I type something.
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01:10:01  <solenoids>that's weird
01:10:03  <solenoids>what platform?
01:10:06  <solenoids>it doesn't do that for me
01:10:15  <Schalken>I'm on Arch Linux
01:10:24  <Schalken>maybe its a shell thing, let me try bash
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01:10:33  <solenoids>same here, with fish and bash
01:10:38  <solenoids>does the same thing
01:10:38  <Legendaire>Sigh
01:10:43  <Schalken>same here, with fish and bash
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01:11:21  <Schalken>node v0.12.7
01:11:33  <Legendaire>I am triing to run this script: https://github.com/intel-iot-devkit/upm/blob/master/examples/javascript/l298.js on my intel edison. I believe my problem is that I do not have a package installed somewhere. Is anyone able to look at it and say "Oh, ya, that's easy"?
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01:12:23  <solenoids>strange thing is, spawning cat shouldn't even be accepting input
01:12:31  <solenoids>what happens if you put a console.log before and after spawning it shamanime
01:12:32  <Schalken>I know
01:12:36  <solenoids>Schalken*
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01:13:08  <solenoids>Legendaire: pastebin the error you get
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01:13:36  <Schalken>solenoids: If I do that, sometimes I get both lines "spawning" and "spawned" immediately, other times it waits for input for both.
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01:13:56  <Schalken>Hold on, this is strange. just running "node" doesn't show the "> " prompt until I type something....
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01:14:40  <Schalken>Bagh, it was something strange with that terminal session.
01:14:44  <Schalken>In a new session everything works.
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01:15:17  <Schalken>solenoids: thanks
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01:15:37  <dodobrain>Schalken, you do know what `cat` does right? without any arg it will simply wait for input
01:16:12  <Schalken>dodobrain: Yes, I know, but it shouldn't cause "node" itself to wait for input, unless maybe it's sharing its stdin, which it isn't.
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01:16:52  <Legendaire>http://pastebin.com/00G1BBjr
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01:17:50  <solenoids>that's... strange
01:17:58  <solenoids>are you sure you didn't mangle the source when you copied it
01:18:12  <solenoids>like copied half of a multi-line comment?
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01:18:54  <Legendaire>I couldn't copy the whole thing at one time so i did it in two part
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01:21:25  <Legendaire>Does it make a difference?
01:22:27  <Legendaire>Am I sisconnected?
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01:22:37  <Legendaire>grr, disconnected. Hmmm, let me restart
01:22:41  <solenoids>Legendaire: no
01:22:44  <solenoids>you're online
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01:25:10  <Legendaire>There. That's better
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01:25:23  <Legendaire>I think I wasn't receiving for a while
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01:26:16  <Legendaire>Sol, do you know what's wrong by chance?
01:26:23  <solenoids>Legendaire: pastebin the file you copied
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01:27:18  <Legendaire>Here is another copy of it. http://pastebin.com/FTGYvjsk
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01:27:29  <Legendaire>The file I copied or the results?
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01:27:36  <solenoids>the file
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01:27:54  <solenoids>and the copied version
01:27:56  <Legendaire>I'm not sure what you mean by the file I copied?
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01:28:03  <Legendaire>I cut and paste from the web.
01:28:09  <solenoids>the version on github seems to be all correct syntax
01:28:18  <solenoids>but I have a feeling when you copied it you mangled it somehow
01:28:42  <Legendaire>https://github.com/intel-iot-devkit/upm/blob/master/examples/javascript/l298.js
01:29:16  <solenoids>I saw that, and it's all correct syntax
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01:29:40  <solenoids>try copying it again
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01:29:56  <solenoids>or click raw and save the file using wget
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01:30:35  <Legendaire>I have the github cloned so I opened the .js file and copied and pasted. Let me see how that runs
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01:32:35  <Legendaire>Ok, I get no error now. That seems to have done the trick. The bad thing is the motors didn't move:(
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01:33:06  <andrew9183>Is there a cleaner way to do this promise: https://gist.github.com/andrewho83/45ae6e858f11467a3813
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01:36:11  <andrew9183>nevermind, i got it :)
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01:43:26  <Auger>Can someone take a look at my gist, I have a nested json object of comments for a post, and I am trying to insert an author object to each comment
01:43:31  <Auger>https://gist.github.com/austingray/707b7dd4798ed958a638
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01:48:24  <japhar81>hey guys, is there any way to load and analyze a JS file from within node? I know I can parse it into an AST with something like uglify, but I'd like to actually access object prototypes and inspect nested scopes
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01:53:22  <solenoids>japhar81: don't think that's possible without v8 debugging
01:53:30  <solenoids>obviously you can inspect into objects that are visible
01:53:54  <japhar81>is it possible to instantiate a V8 debugger somehow?
01:54:05  <japhar81>or am I in native binding territory at that point
01:54:10  <owen1>We use OneLogIn for SSO and also SalesForce. We would like to have a single auth service that will take care of authentication and authorization to all our apps. Is this diagram looks like a good approach? http://i.imgur.com/Ji1I1P4.png Here the suggested flow: email/password form -> auth service -> onelogin reply yes or no -> salesforce reply with user id. JWT token is created with user id, stored in a DB
01:54:12  <owen1>and JWT is returned to the app.
01:54:16  <solenoids>the v8 debugger is a protocol that you can enable when you start node
01:54:22  <solenoids>you connect to it with something like node-inspector
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01:54:39  <solenoids>what's your use case japhar81
01:54:40  <japhar81>oh i see, that wont work
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01:55:17  <japhar81>I'm trying to build a gui editor that will suck in a JS file and graph out dependencies
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01:55:34  <japhar81>so its an express app that takes a file upload, builds a JSON object, and renders it
01:55:38  <solenoids>like require()s?
01:55:51  <japhar81>yeah
01:55:56  <solenoids>browserify, for example, parses the js to get requires
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01:56:16  <japhar81>yeah thats where im headed, their code made my head hurt, i couldnt figure out wtf they were doing to parse the js
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01:58:19  <solenoids>not sure what js parser they're using
01:58:27  <solenoids>esprima is the most popular one AFAIK
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02:00:58  <solenoids>speaking about browserify, browserify probably has some sort of API for sucking in a js file and outputting a dependency tree
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02:17:28  <base698>can anyone get the node repl working in emacs?
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02:33:18  <ayynew>hi
02:33:26  <ayynew>why do i need to reload node server when i change file?
02:33:40  <ayynew>i can use tools but why in the first place
02:33:44  <ayynew>doesn't js load dynamically
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02:39:17  <solenoids>ayynew: because it's probably caching the files
02:39:23  <solenoids>what HTTP framework are you using?
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02:39:29  <ayynew>express ;) solenoids
02:40:01  <solenoids>express activates template caching when $NODE_ENV is set to production
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02:47:29  <ayynew>solenoids: what about when set to nothing?
02:47:41  <ayynew>solenoids: not restarting for me and it's set to nohing
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02:47:43  <ayynew>nothing
02:47:43  <solenoids>pretty sure express does not cache when set to nothing
02:48:01  <solenoids>what exactly is being cached here? templates or express.static?
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02:55:02  <ayynew>solenoids: node code
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02:55:32  <solenoids>oh, in that case
02:55:41  <solenoids>you will have to restart the app
02:55:46  <solenoids>node is not like php
02:56:12  <solenoids>instead of spawning a process (or a thread of php-fpm), you have a single process handling http requests
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02:57:02  <solenoids>there's a lot of utilities out there that aid in live reloading node.js processes as you save files
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03:02:01  <soulair>I'm using the id3js package and having trouble with variable scope, I think.
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03:02:33  <soulair>So I read metadata off of mp3s and am trying to assign the metadata to a field in a json outside the id3js function call.
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03:03:06  <soulair>But for some reason, the JSON field is not set to the metadata variable when I try and assign it inside the id3js metadta read cala.
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03:03:47  <soulair>This is the package, can anyone help me real quick? https://github.com/43081j/id3#local-files
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03:13:04  <Onionnion>Are JS Promises supported in Node 0.12?
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03:15:00  <kasper>anyone here ever gave dart a chance ? if you don't know it, basicly typescript+es7-'all the js flaws' I really like it. If you want to play around with it, checkout dartpad: https://dartpad.dartlang.org/914809f459679b29d3a3
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03:17:51  <marghasaurus>has anybody had a success story with unit testing expressjs routes and middleware? how did you handle mocking services like db connections
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03:19:51  <Nikesh>I am writing a module that interfaces with an API that requires an API key. What are good ways to allow the API key to be set when someone uses my module? I've implemented a few ways.. maybe someone has done this before? I'd like a really clean method.
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03:24:22  <marghasaurus>Nikesh: your module should probably just accept their api key being passed in, typically their code would pull it as an env-var and then pass it in when they instantiate your module
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03:25:47  <relisys->has anyone here set up socketcluster before?
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03:43:30  <jcool>best place to jump start node.js?
03:44:52  <solenoids>!eloquent @ jcool
03:44:52  <ecmabot>jcool: Eloquent JavaScript is a comprehensive introductory Web-based book with examples and a built-in interpreter. http://eloquentjavascript.net/
03:45:15  <jcool>solenoids, (y)
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04:04:26  <owen1>We use OneLogIn for SSO and also SalesForce. We would like to have a single auth service that will take care of authentication and authorization to all our apps. Is this diagram looks like a good approach? http://i.imgur.com/Ji1I1P4.png Here the suggested flow: email/password form -> auth service -> onelogin reply yes or no -> salesforce reply with user id. JWT token is created with user id, stored in a DB
04:04:29  <owen1>and JWT is returned to the app.
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04:07:10  <obliviga>Hey guys, I have a question about NodeJS and was wondering if anyone could answer it. I posted it on StackOverflow a week ago: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/31748436/does-installing-nodejs-on-one-user-account-affect-another-user-account#
04:07:21  <obliviga>Thank you in advance!
04:07:23  <ljharb>obliviga: by default node doesn't install on a user account
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04:07:30  <ljharb>obliviga: it installs on the entire system, thus affecting every user
04:07:36  <obliviga>I see.
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04:07:43  <ljharb>obliviga: if you use http://nvm.sh tho, it's per-user.
04:07:52  <ljharb>and i maintain it, so i recommend it :-)
04:08:06  <obliviga>Yes, NVM is great. Thank you for maintaining it!
04:08:22  <ljharb>if you have any trouble, ask in #nvm or here
04:08:31  <obliviga>Much appreciated.
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04:24:21  <derek_>question for the group. Why would a socket stream that always hands me buffers all of the sudden hand me a string? v0.12.7
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04:25:01  <derek_>seems to only happen under heavy load and large reads, 64k chunks..
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04:46:47  <s3shs_>So, what would cause node-inspector to not stop on 'debugger;' statements?
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04:59:09  <myndzi>not encountering them... or not being in debug mode
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05:05:18  <s3shs_>Wanna bet?
05:06:24  <s3shs_>The first debugger; is hit. The console.log happens 3 times. The second debugger; is never hit. Riddle me that.
05:06:25  <s3shs_>http://pastebin.com/GJAMzzKz
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05:10:59  <s3shs_>I think it has something to do with whether files are loaded in to the debugger somehow.
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05:11:50  <Nikesh>I accidentally commited my a vim swap file, is that dangerous?
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05:15:18  <solenoids>Nikesh: no, a vim swap file is just a backup of a previous revision
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05:28:11  <Nikesh>solenoids: OK, thanks :)
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05:49:30  <riobe>Is it bad practice to set the status text to something other than OK for a 200? I was thinking of sending a custom success message down on (for instance) a POST saying an item has been saved and was trying to figure out how to set that in node. I'm not sure if I should be doing that at all though.
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06:02:13  <gurke_>good morning. :)
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06:05:28  <riobe>Good morning (by 5 minutes in my time zone :P)
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06:07:37  <gurke_>5 minutes?
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06:11:10  <riobe>12:05am (when I sent that)
06:11:25  <riobe>Bad joke
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06:12:27  <gurke_>ah ok
06:12:32  <gurke_>:>
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06:14:17  <andreas_999>ok
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06:16:54  <riobe>Is it bad practice to set the status text to something other than OK for a 200? I was thinking of sending a custom success message down on (for instance) a POST saying an item has been saved and was trying to figure out how to set that in node. I'm not sure if I should be doing that at all though.
06:17:19  <mdev>yeah don't change status
06:18:08  <solenoids>riobe: yes, the status text should match the status number
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06:18:28  <riobe>So if I want to return the object I made in a post and a message, should I just next the object in the body in a property and have another property for the message then?
06:18:31  <solenoids>probably against the HTTP standard but not sure
06:18:43  <riobe>Thanks for the help. :D
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06:22:29  <mdev>riobe yeah that's commonly what I see done, have body content convey what you need
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06:23:10  <gemtastic>Since the scope is a little different in Node, is it equally bad to clutter the global scope in the modules of Node?
06:23:13  <mdev>but if it's a 200 indicating success why wouldn't you just output the data being requested?
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06:25:04  <riobe>mdev, In this case, it was a post that wasn't going to return anything but a message. But I didn't want to lock the result to being a message while I'm still in prototype phase if I might want to return the object I saved later (if I changed it due to processing).
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06:25:56  <riobe>gemtastic, "global" scope is only within each file (module). I think it is still advisable to be cautious with cluttering that global scope but at least it won't affect as much code if you aren't.
06:26:02  <riobe>My understanding anyway.
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06:27:07  <mdev>riobe could return a json, one part indicating id and other the message
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06:27:22  <mdev>I do that commonly for REST api but in general as well, and check if I specified an error part
06:27:47  <mdev>like var results = {}; results.error = 3; results.error_msg = 'whatever'; then send that back
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06:28:03  <riobe>I like that better than returning the entire object. Just the ID and any errors.
06:28:11  <riobe>Thanks for the idea! ^.^
06:28:15  <mdev>np :)
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06:29:36  <gemtastic>riobe: That's my thought too. I suppose I'm looking for best practices/arguments to teach myself and my friend. My friend is a JS developer but knows less Node than I do (and I'm a total newb still)
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06:30:23  <gemtastic>My friend is very imprinted into the "don't clutter the global scope!" but as you say, in Node, the modules have their own scope...
06:32:09  <riobe>gemtastic, I'm still newish to Node. Only been doing it professionally for a month now and I'm learning on the job. Creating global variables with var in a module is perfectly acceptable and normal. Judging by every node example I've seen anyway. That being said, for each variable it is still advisable to keep it's scope down to only where it is needed.
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06:33:12  <riobe>I've been a C# dev for the past 5 years, so I know code, just don't know node all that well compared to what I want yet. ^.^
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06:34:13  <gemtastic>riobe: Then we're kinda in the same boat, except my total career as a developer professionally started 3 months ago
06:34:28  <gemtastic>I'm a Java dev originally :P
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06:35:06  <gemtastic>If you cound school as "originally" I mean
06:35:13  <riobe>lol, at least Java is still a closer community fit to node from what I understand, though I've never done anything professionally in Java. :P
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06:36:06  <riobe>Coding professionally is a vastly different experience than at school. ^.^ A lot more fun too (in my opinion)
06:36:07  <gemtastic>Node and Java work well together if nothing else. Language wise, they're sooo different. The only thing they have in common is similar syntax and OOP :P
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06:37:05  <riobe>Javascript's OOP is...tough, for me to adjust to anyway. So far I'm not using constructors very often so mostly it's just modules of functions.
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06:37:19  <gemtastic>The reason I'm working is actually because school and work are two different things
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06:37:32  <riobe>I think I've done constructor pattern once when I wanted to wrap node-mssql usage
06:37:39  <gemtastic>I still have another year in school
06:38:22  <riobe>Damn, that's a hell of a head start then. Work experience before graduation... I wish I had had that. :P Kudos to you!
06:38:34  <gemtastic>I kinda like the way you think in Java, with classes and beans. It was a bit hard for me to learn JS too
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06:39:16  <gemtastic>Indeed it's a head-start, but I feel that this is what I need.
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06:39:24  <riobe>C# and Java are very very similar from a language perspective. I'd assume we're having a similar learning curve
06:39:39  <gemtastic>Instead of having a summer vacation, I've learned JS and node. :D
06:39:54  <riobe>I'm pretty sure you'll thank yourself for that immensely later.
06:39:59  <riobe>^.^
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06:40:49  <gemtastic>Well, I suppose C# is a sister-language to Java. They're building on the same core (kinda) and are suppose to do kinda the same thing, but two different implementations. If I understood C# right :P
06:41:00  <riobe>In the Denver area I could have already got a job on the MEAN stack if I had had any experience professionally, or a fully fledged enough personal project (which is what I'm working on now)
06:41:22  <riobe>Not sure what area you're in, but I know there are definitely jobs out there for it.
06:41:40  <gemtastic>There's Jobs for the MEAN stack everywhere :P
06:41:55  * AndreasMadsenquit (Client Quit)
06:42:26  <gemtastic>I have two perks to help me get a job a little easier though and I don't really hesitate to use them. ;P
06:42:35  <gemtastic>I love programming <3
06:42:54  <riobe>I love C# as a language. Probably biased but I think it's noticeably cleaner than Java. Thing I don't like about it is the mono-solution mindset that every job I have in it has. If they have C# they're using IIS/Active Directly/TFS/SQL Server/Outlook/etc/etc
06:42:59  * TyrfingMjolnirjoined
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06:43:21  <riobe>I love that in Java/Node.js/About anything not C# people are willing to go find the tech that suites them more often instead of just "use the MS option"
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06:43:49  <riobe>So I'm thrilled to finally get work experience on node
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06:44:10  <riobe>Passion counts for a lot. ^.^
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06:44:47  <gemtastic>well, C# is designed to do things the MS way. I actually had the choice to attend a .NET and the Java education
06:44:57  <gemtastic>But I chose Java because of the versatility
06:45:21  <riobe>I was learning C++, Java, and C# out of school. Got my first job in C#. After that I was stuck on that stack.
06:45:36  <riobe>So...I'd say good call. :P
06:45:49  <gemtastic>I only wish I had a more knowledgeable mentor (or any mentor for that matter) when learning Node
06:46:08  <riobe>Google and IRC have been all I've been using. :P
06:46:11  <gemtastic>I'm assuming my first application is a franken-code monstrocity :P
06:46:16  * _rootquit (Quit: out for a while)
06:46:17  <riobe>Haha
06:46:27  <riobe>Embrace the refactoring. ^.^
06:46:36  <riobe>Don't try to make it perfect.
06:47:04  <gemtastic>Like, I'm stubbornly using callbacks to teach myself fully how that works. I feel that that's what I need to do to fully understand node/JS
06:47:21  <riobe>Yeah, definitely.
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06:47:29  <riobe>Do you understand the concept of async and the event loop?
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06:48:00  <gemtastic>Actually, I refactor so much I accidentally broke my code. IntelliJ thought it was wise to switch a part of an unrelated URI string to o :')
06:48:16  <riobe>lol, >.<
06:48:17  <gemtastic>I believe I do, but I have a lot to learn
06:48:24  * chargenquit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
06:48:34  <gemtastic>Took me forever to figure the circular referencing thing and why it's bad :P
06:48:54  * ronskisikajoined
06:49:00  <riobe>There's always more to learn. :) When you get used to callbacks you can also look into promises to clean up your callbacks and not nest so deep.
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06:49:42  <gemtastic>I made an SO question about it and it's probably something JavaDevs get caught in doing:
06:49:44  <gemtastic>http://stackoverflow.com/questions/31783473/typeerror-undefined-is-not-a-function-when-jumping-tween-modules
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06:50:36  <gemtastic>Also, I dunno about C# but Java doesn't really have functions in functions or functions as parameters. That was strangely hard to wrap my head around.
06:50:53  <riobe>Circular reference in there.
06:51:05  <riobe>Oh, I needed to scroll down further
06:51:09  <riobe>It was answered
06:51:10  <riobe>lol
06:51:17  <gemtastic>The whole "don't make functions in an if-case" thing came as a WTF to me because I would never ever have even thought the thought XD
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06:52:16  <gemtastic>Yeah, it's kinda answered. Though I'm thinking up a better answer that's more explainatory. Like the exports.function thing. It's surprisingly hard to find a good explanation to what it actually is for noobs
06:52:22  <solenoids>gemtastic: java 8 does
06:52:25  <ljharb>gemtastic: don't use exports.something
06:52:30  <ljharb>gemtastic: use `module.exports = foo` and export one thing.
06:52:46  <gemtastic>solenoids: It has lambda, but it doesn't have more than that
06:52:49  <riobe>I think there are times that both are appropriate.
06:53:23  <ljharb>nope
06:53:29  <gemtastic>ljharb: What I've been doing is what you can see in my SO question
06:53:35  <ljharb>even if you want to export multiple things, then do `module.exports = { a: b, b: c }`
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06:53:41  <ljharb>don't ever use exports.foo. that's legacy junk.
06:53:44  <gemtastic>But that method has the loading issue
06:53:44  <riobe>ljharb, I have a set of controller modules where I have business logic, and each of them use exports.things and my routes file requires that and routes them, then uses module.exports to send out an express router
06:53:55  * h4ckuratejoined
06:53:56  <ljharb>riobe: again, use module.exports and assign an object to it if you want.
06:53:58  * nodweberjoined
06:54:02  <riobe>ljharb, Why wouldn't I use exports. if I want to export an object? Isn't that exactly what that does?
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06:54:23  <ljharb>`module.exports = 4; exports = 3;` what gets exported?
06:54:24  <gemtastic>`module.exports = { a: b, b: c }` is exactly what I'm doing.
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06:54:34  <ljharb>the answer tells you what the real export point is.
06:54:34  <riobe>I read you shouldn't mix them
06:54:44  <ljharb>of course you shouldn't. but you also shouldn't use exports.foo at all.
06:54:48  <ljharb>module.exports is the thing that gets returned.
06:54:48  <riobe>I see.
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06:55:02  <ljharb>"exports" is just a bad convenience left over from pre-node common.js daysl
06:55:06  <gemtastic>ljharb: that's the things I wanna put in my answer to my own question
06:55:08  <ljharb>"convenience" in quotes
06:55:16  <riobe>lol, I see
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06:55:22  <gemtastic>Explain exports vs module.exports
06:55:39  <ljharb>gemtastic: your SO as a circular dependency.
06:55:44  * dustinmquit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
06:55:46  <ljharb>gemtastic: 2 requires 3, 3 requires 2. you can't have that.
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06:55:51  <riobe>http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7137397/module-exports-vs-exports-in-node-js
06:55:53  <gemtastic>what they actually are, how they work and why you shouldn't use exports
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06:56:09  <riobe>IRC isn't usually the right place for essays
06:56:10  <riobe>:P
06:56:23  <ljharb>riobe: setting both is better than just using exports off-hand, true
06:56:23  <gemtastic>ljharb: Oh I know that now
06:56:32  <ljharb>riobe: but, it's even better to just never allow exports.foo :-)
06:56:42  <gemtastic>All I needed was the line from the documentation to get what I was doing wrong :P
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06:56:53  <riobe>Is exports.foo technique planned to be deprecated?
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06:57:07  <riobe>I'm not argueing, I just hadn't read that anywhere yet. New to me. ^.^
06:57:09  <emilyrose>ljharb: you are wise beyond your stack depth
06:57:29  <ljharb>emilyrose: i have PTC
06:57:35  <gemtastic>"When there are circular require() calls, a module might not have finished executing when it is returned." <-- actually explains everything
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06:57:48  <ljharb>riobe: it's deprecated in a convention sense. in a real sense, no, the module system is frozen. it's just a footgun
06:57:57  <emilyrose>ljharb: I don't even...
06:58:07  <riobe>ljharb, I see. Thanks for the information.
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06:58:29  <gemtastic>My personal opinion would be that it should be deprecated (the exports thing) because as it is now, it encourages bad designs
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06:58:42  <ljharb>emilyrose: lol now that i think about it that's a worse joke than i thought it'd be
06:58:51  <emilyrose>gemtastic: you can hack this with process.nextTick :D
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06:59:12  <riobe>So if I'm going to return a set of functions from a module, should I do module.exports = { at the top and define them as properties? Or define a bunch of function name() lines and make an object for module.exports at the bottom?
06:59:19  <gemtastic>I'm not happy with answers like "just write exports.function" to solve my issue with the circular reference, my issue isn't the exporting, it's the design
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07:00:18  <emilyrose>riobe: I do this:
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07:00:29  <emilyrose>module.exports = myThing;
07:00:31  <gemtastic>That's how I am; I want to learn a good design pattern rather than how to hack things. While hearing how you can hack it IS a good way of learning how things work, it's not the solution I want to apply
07:00:34  <emilyrose>function myThing(some, args) {
07:00:35  <emilyrose>...
07:00:36  <emilyrose>};
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07:00:42  <ljharb>riobe: that's a style choice
07:00:47  <gemtastic>Overide everything! :D
07:00:49  <ljharb>riobe: i prefer to keep module.exports on the bottom, like a function return
07:00:59  <gemtastic>ljharb: me too :)
07:01:01  <emilyrose>riobe: ljharb is wrong about this one
07:01:06  * sliftyjoined
07:01:09  <emilyrose>as wise as he is
07:01:12  <ljharb>riobe: others prefer it on the top, to emphasize what they consider important
07:01:17  <emilyrose>lol
07:01:25  <ljharb>but, hoisting is gross, and relying on it is gross :-p
07:01:30  <emilyrose>oh stahp
07:01:33  <riobe>Very interesting. lol
07:01:37  * groomjoined
07:01:56  <emilyrose>ljharb: relying on var is gross! prove me wrong!
07:01:58  <emilyrose>global all the things
07:02:09  <gemtastic>I suppose I'm a little damage from that c++ course in senior high. I like having my code above the imports somewhat linear to the usage
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07:02:15  <gemtastic>*damaged
07:02:18  <ljharb>emilyrose: you don't have to if you make everything `module.exports = anExpression` :-p
07:02:35  <ljharb>gemtastic: in c++ wouldn't you have the imports all at the top, and everything else below?
07:02:38  <emilyrose>module.exports = highHorse();
07:02:41  <gemtastic>Feels logical to have the exports at the bottom.
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07:02:48  <ljharb>emilyrose: immutableHighHorse() :-p
07:02:57  <emilyrose>oh you
07:02:59  <riobe>hahaha
07:03:08  <gemtastic>Well, I'm talking about exports now, not the require part
07:03:19  <riobe>imports in C++ would be #include's :P
07:03:22  <ljharb>right
07:03:24  <riobe>Those would all be at the top in a chunk
07:03:28  <gemtastic>Yup
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07:03:45  <gemtastic>Same with Java: imports go in the top.
07:03:52  <riobe>module.exports aren't really analogous to imports. :P
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07:04:11  <ljharb>nope, more to a function return :-p
07:04:40  <riobe>XD I'm leaning towards that. I had to google hoisting, and coming from other languages....that does seem gross. :P
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07:05:12  <ljharb>!hoisting @ riobe
07:05:13  <ecmabot>riobe: http://johnkpaul.com/blog/2013/02/11/what-is-hoisting-really/ https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference/Scope_Cheatsheet
07:05:14  <Indrek>is it good idea to store some session data in nodejs. Example each token customer_ip, to check that customer ip hasn't changed during session
07:05:31  <emilyrose>Indrek: you shouldn't worry about an IP changing during a session
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07:05:44  <Indrek>i need it for extra security
07:05:47  * _blizzy_quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
07:05:49  * craftbynickquit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
07:05:50  <emilyrose>Indrek: you'll break things for people on mobile/dial-up connections
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07:06:18  <Indrek>break connection vs security, then security is more important for me
07:06:22  <riobe>Thanks ljharb
07:06:26  <emilyrose>Indrek: I would be surprised if the IP was relevant to security, but in short I would say the answer is "no", but not because of storing data in node
07:06:52  <ljharb>Indrek: if i take my laptop from one wifi to another, there's no security concern.
07:07:01  * renloquit (Quit: renlo)
07:07:05  <ljharb>Indrek: in fact, if your website logs me out because i switched cell towers on my cellphone, then your website sucks and i'm pissed off
07:07:06  <emilyrose>Indrek: that problem aside, you can safely store these sessions in node
07:07:24  <emilyrose>Indrek: if you want to persist these sessions to disk you should consider something other than just in-memory
07:07:26  <ljharb>IP addresses changing is acceptable, perfectly OK, and not a security concern.
07:07:41  <emilyrose>^ this too, but I'm not going to push the issue
07:07:44  * fractingjoined
07:07:47  <emilyrose>do w/e makes you feel secure
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07:08:04  <Indrek>how to make really sure that it someone gets your token with ex malware then he wouldn't be able to pick up your session?
07:08:13  <emilyrose>Indrek: you don't!
07:08:16  <ljharb>analyze behavior on the backend.
07:08:35  <emilyrose>Indrek: there are lots of ways to try to mitigate the possibility
07:08:44  <emilyrose>Indrek: IP address is one very minor way that is easily circumvented with XSS, etc.
07:09:00  * deensquit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
07:09:00  <Indrek>my idea was to compare referrer, ip, useragent
07:09:10  <emilyrose>Indrek: yeah, a complicated matrix of stuff is best
07:09:14  <emilyrose>Indrek: but also more fragile
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07:09:32  <gemtastic>Even though it's a safety thing. I hate using services that requires my approval for changing IP
07:09:43  <Indrek>i have to keep customer document copies
07:09:47  <emilyrose>use some xss tokens and maybe do some code signing if you want to get fancy
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07:10:00  <gemtastic>So I noticed you wanna play this game at your buddy's... Now you can't log in until you verify the IP by e-mail
07:10:21  <Indrek>no idea isn't to check ip on login
07:10:29  <Indrek>but to check that ip doesn't change during session
07:10:56  <ljharb>right but as i said, that's a normal thing.
07:11:08  <ljharb>changing wifi access points, or cell phone towers, isn't a security concern.
07:11:14  * rendarjoined
07:11:14  <ljharb>and making users log back in is a horrible UX.
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07:11:25  <Indrek>yes, but if you get token and log in from another pc that is :P
07:11:54  <gemtastic>Is it possible to check if the new IP is far away from the last one used?
07:12:07  <Indrek>ok ip can change, but you are not changing useragent or referrer during session
07:12:13  <Indrek>and if you do you should log in again
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07:12:29  <Indrek>ok, referrer can anctually change if you open new tab from existing page
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07:12:42  <riobe>Security is hard.
07:12:50  <gemtastic>Indeed
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07:13:18  <ljharb>gemtastic: like if i get on a plane with my phone/laptop and then want to keep using it in the next airport?
07:13:30  <Indrek>then you just log in again
07:13:33  <riobe>ljharb, I think you meant to address to Indrek
07:13:45  <ljharb>no, gemtastic asked about distance between IPs.
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07:13:49  <ljharb>Indrek: sure, but that's super annoying.
07:13:51  <riobe>Ah, good point
07:14:01  <gemtastic>Well, more like, if you're logged in on one IP in Dever and suddenly your IP changes to LosAngeles :P
07:14:12  <riobe>I usually assume a site is busted if it keeps making me relogin.
07:14:34  <Indrek>how many times you try to keep session over 2 citys ?
07:14:53  <riobe>Especially on mobile, when I hate using my keyboard to put in a password, I'll be driven nuts if I have to keep logging in.
07:14:55  <Indrek>how often you use your net sessions so that you log in in denver and end up in LA
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07:15:16  <ljharb>gemtastic: flight from denver to LA
07:15:18  <riobe>The geographically distant scenario is an edge case that won't happen often for most uers.
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07:15:32  <riobe>Depending on your target audience, that is.
07:15:36  <ljharb>again tho, you need to analyze user behavior via the server.
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07:15:43  <gemtastic>How does the wi-fi on airplanes work IP-wise?
07:15:51  <ljharb>and generate confidence values about the fradulence of each action.
07:15:54  <Indrek>i havent trried
07:16:02  <ljharb>gemtastic: it's constant through the flight. but airport wifi is separate.
07:16:14  <ljharb>gemtastic: so just getting on the plane would change my IP.
07:16:23  <riobe>And getting off would do it again.
07:16:33  <Indrek>yeah, but most probably you need to do connect also again
07:16:41  <riobe>If your target audience is business people that fly a lot (like sales or something) that would hit them often.
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07:16:58  <gemtastic>Well, you could make the app see that airport to airplane IP is similar
07:16:58  <riobe>Reconnecting to a new wifi doesn't require relogging in to most sites if I remember right.
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07:17:11  <Indrek>banks ?
07:17:21  <ljharb>nope, not even banks.
07:17:22  <Indrek>their session anyway expires in really short time
07:17:25  <riobe>On a pragmatic note, I wouldn't try to be more secure than bank websites.
07:17:32  <riobe>And they don't do that as long as I'm being active.
07:18:00  <Indrek>only thing left is user agent
07:18:04  <riobe>Well, the one I know of doesn't anyway. >.>
07:18:08  <Indrek>that shouldn't change :D
07:18:29  <riobe>I can't think of anything that would break that one. Would be a different browser/device if that changes I would think.
07:18:36  <Indrek>i have seen banks that session expires in 5 minutes
07:18:44  <ljharb>unless i have a browser that randomizes its own user agent to prevent ad tracking
07:18:55  <ljharb>that's an edge case tho, obc.
07:18:56  <ljharb>*obv
07:19:10  <gemtastic>I think the standard here is 10 or 15 min
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07:19:40  <gemtastic>It's happened more than once that I got logged out while fetching a bill
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07:20:03  <Indrek>either you are slow or that bank sucks :D
07:20:06  <gemtastic>Long OCR? Too bad, it took too long for you to type it
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07:21:01  <riobe>Read the hoisting article. I don't like what that allows.
07:21:05  * aslantjoined
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07:21:25  <riobe>My bank doesn't log me out that fast.
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07:21:33  * adrianr1quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
07:21:37  <riobe>But it does auto log me out
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07:21:54  <Indrek>but what extra would you suggest to ask when user wants to download file
07:21:57  <Indrek>except token
07:22:07  <Indrek>and it shouldnt bother user
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07:22:36  <riobe>That's as late as I can stay up doing node. Time to crash. ^.^
07:22:49  <gemtastic>So THAT's hoisting
07:22:52  * Industrialjoined
07:22:55  <gemtastic>great link
07:23:32  <Indrek>can you paste that link again
07:23:35  <Indrek>i dont se eit
07:23:44  <gemtastic>I suppose it's not as new of a thing to me working with the JVM
07:23:55  <gemtastic>http://johnkpaul.com/blog/2013/02/11/what-is-hoisting-really/
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07:23:56  <solenoids>!hoisting @ Indrek
07:23:56  <ecmabot>Indrek: http://johnkpaul.com/blog/2013/02/11/what-is-hoisting-really/ https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference/Scope_Cheatsheet
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07:25:17  <gemtastic>I find it more funny that people don't think about the hoisting happening
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07:26:04  <gemtastic>Especially in java... "Why doesn't my code execute EXACTLY as I wrote it!?"
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07:30:59  <solenoids>it's less an issue of not being aware of the specifics of hoisting, more of an issue of not being familiar enough with javascript in the first place
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07:32:03  <gemtastic>Isn't hoisting kind of a very basic thing to know about JavaScript?
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07:32:31  <gemtastic>Without the hoisting, then you wouldn't be able to call a function you've written below the function you're in
07:32:39  <solenoids>out of the non-obvious specifics of js, it's one that's sorta common knowledge
07:32:54  <gemtastic>Exactly.
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07:32:57  <solenoids>but yeah, you should know about it if you write lots of js
07:33:27  <gemtastic>I can understand that people don't innately know about it if they are new to programming though.
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07:34:10  <gemtastic>Like I said; I come from Java, all Java code is "rewritten" by the JVM.
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07:34:16  <solenoids>and no, you can make calls between two functions in the same scope without hoisting existing
07:34:26  <solenoids>js does the lookup as the function is run
07:34:27  <gemtastic>And I know C++, where they don't have the hoisting
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07:34:47  <solenoids>because js isn't statically typed, you can have a function with a whole bunch of nonsense undefined variables
07:35:02  <solenoids>and it'll get resolved whenever that function is called
07:35:13  <gemtastic>Yeah
07:35:42  <solenoids>I wish javascript was designed smarter, static typing should have been there from the start
07:36:01  <gemtastic>I bet a lot of people wish that
07:36:09  <solenoids>other languages just don't have javascript's huge ecosystem though
07:36:55  <gemtastic>All languages have their good and bad sides
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08:25:03  <gwash>hello
08:25:12  <Schalken>Node seems to deal with signals using strings, eg 'SIGINT'. Is there a way I can convert those strings to and from the signal numbers?
08:25:21  <gwash>what is the alternative to fs.exists?
08:25:40  <gwash>fs.stat throws an error on missing files
08:25:43  <Schalken>I mean, I can open signals.h and write a map myself. I'm just wondering if node has one built in already.
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08:29:18  <joepie91>gwash: what are you trying to do?
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08:30:01  <joepie91>Schalken: not that I know of - also please keep in mind that these signals can vary by platform
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08:32:57  <Schalken>joepie91: yeah, it turns out node has constants for some signals in a module called "constants" (at least according to the typescript definitions), so i'll use that instead of signals.h
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08:34:45  <gwash>joepie91, nvm, i was looking for a drop-in replacement for fs.exists (pattern-wise) when i realised it got deprecated. i just changed my pattern instead
08:34:56  <zot>i am .pipe()ing stdin to readline, and can't figure out how to control buffering — it appears to be buffering in blocks of 16k, and i wish to disable buffering entirely, so that my lines arrive asap. what's the proper way to do this, preferably w/o another 3rd party lib? (in 0.10, btw.)
08:34:58  <ljharb>fs.exists is just fine, it's not going anywhere.
08:35:00  <joepie91>gwash: right, how are you doing it now? :P
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08:35:29  <gwash>log error, and return;
08:35:33  <ljharb>zot: just wrap the buffer in `String()`
08:35:39  <joepie91>Schalken: right
08:35:44  <joepie91>gwash: huh?
08:35:46  <gwash>instead of if (exists) do else do not;
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08:35:59  <joepie91>!exists @ gwash
08:35:59  <ecmabot>gwash: You should almost never use fs.exists or fs.existsSync - they're prone to race conditions, and will cause bugs. Just use readFile/createReadStream if you want to a read a file, and handle the error if it doesn't exist - or if you want to write to a file, use writeFile/createWriteStream with an 'x' mode: https://nodejs.org/api/fs.html#fs_fs_open_path_flags_mode_callback
08:36:11  <zot>ljharb: it's stdin, with tail -f live input, so unless i misunderstand, that won't really work for my case
08:36:11  <joepie91>does it resemble that?
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08:36:40  <gwash>ljharb, then why is the official doc says its deprecated?
08:37:15  <ljharb>zot: wrap it in String()
08:37:37  <gwash>joepie91, i realise that, but it was convenient
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08:38:00  <gwash>this is fine too, but doesn't stat() create some overhead?
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08:41:55  <ljharb>sorry for the double post
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08:42:28  <ljharb>gwash: it's deprecated because checking if a file exists opens the possibility that when you next interact with it, it won't exist (or will)
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08:42:38  <ljharb>gwash: but in 99.999% of cases, that's not a problem. so i say just use it.
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08:43:04  <zot>ljharb: i don't follow what you mean — my code looks like this: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/c4c2761109db01277581 — can you explain where you mean to wrap it?
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08:47:54  <gwash>ljharb, i get it, but i'd rather not have deprecated code in my project
08:48:00  <gwash>better safe than lazy
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08:54:44  <mattt>morning
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08:56:05  <ljharb>zot: in this case you have to manually build up all the lines, and on the "end" event, join them together.
08:56:45  <zot>ljharb: that's what i'm trying to avoid — once stdin closes, (or reaches 16k), i get a dump of lines, and it works. i want to simply get line-by-line, without extra buffering
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08:57:29  <joepie91>gwash: what's your usecase? that makes it inconvenient
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08:58:02  <ljharb>zot: what's the stdin data? is it piping?
08:58:20  <zot>it's log output from a long running process, either direct, or via tail -f
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09:04:39  <stride>zot: try stdbuf -oL -eL cat/tail/whatever
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09:09:42  <gwash>joepie91, one returns a bool, the other returns useless object and/or an error
09:10:11  <joepie91>gwash: I'm not sure what you're refering to. can you gist the code?
09:11:05  <zot>stride: when i use another last member of the pipeline, it's still line buffered, so i don't think that tail is the actual culprit here. (not 100%)
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09:12:09  <gwash>it's no longer an issue, i'm just saying that fs.exists is more convenient than fs.stat for checking file existence, obviously
09:12:28  <gwash>but i understand why it would be dangerous in a async environment
09:13:58  <joepie91>gwash: in a sync environment it's just as dangerous, just less likely to occur
09:14:14  <joepie91>gwash: as you can't guarantee that no other process has been messing with your file inbetween calls
09:14:38  <joepie91>or another thread, for that matter
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09:36:49  <lennym>I sometimes feel like the "don't use fs.exists" arguments are a little overplayed. I think it depends a lot on *why* a file may or may not exist. If you have a fairly transient file system where a lot of files are being created, modified and deleted all the time by a lot of different things then it holds pretty well. But I often use fs.exists to check for
09:36:49  <lennym>the existence of an environment specific config file, and in this case if it exists and then no longer exists a few lines later when I want to read it, then that is a *very severe problem* and it's pretty legit for the process to throw, and given this, plus the improved grokability of code that says exactly what it's doing means that I think it's a
09:36:49  <lennym>preferable solution.
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10:39:17  <fontanon>Hi everybody? Has someone some experience with nodejs-agenda ?? I'm frustrated about what to do when nodejs process crashes during a job execution: once nodejs process is up and running again the job is never activated again ....
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10:41:07  <GreenJello>lennon, the thing is... there's not really any benefit to using fs.exists, and you'd have to do the same check twice to have an equally reliable program, and it'd be slower, there's just no good reason for it unless you actually only need to know if the file exists
10:41:27  <GreenJello>lennym*
10:41:44  <_rgn>lennym: actually, if you want to read a file, checking if it exists first *does not* improve readability because what you want to do is read the file, not check if it exists
10:42:00  <GreenJello>fontanon, you might want to ask on stackoverflow; include your code and error messages
10:42:17  <fontanon>GreenJello, thnks
10:42:31  <_rgn>i think the only case where "dont use fs exists" argument doesn't apply is where you really just want to check if a file exists without doing anything else
10:42:37  <lennym>_rgn: I respectfully disagree, but then all discussions of "readability" are pretty subjective.
10:43:30  <lennym>_rgn: If I'm going to `require` some json then I'll need to wrap it in a try/catch or in a fs.exists, and one of those says explicitly what I'm doing, the other does not.
10:43:38  <GreenJello>yes, and fs.exists is on the loop side of e.g. for(;;) vs .map for transforming arrays
10:43:44  <lennym>* some json that may or may not be there.
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10:45:00  <_rgn>well yeah, if not existing is a valid outcome then try catch is less readable because it's not a "proper" grammar for control flow
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10:45:31  <_rgn>then again, that's why people have created file-exists modules that use try catch internally
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10:45:49  <_rgn>but that's not an argument against not having fs.exists out of the box
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10:46:52  <lennym>_rgn: "that's not an argument against not having fs.exists" too... many... negatives...
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10:48:23  <lennym>_rgn: But yes, the use case I described above (in which I use fs.exists) is a check for a config file that might exist at a location on certain environments and not others, so fits "if not existing is a valid outcome"
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10:48:50  <lennym>_rgn: If I *expect* a file to exist, then I won't check first
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10:50:22  <lennym>_rgn: But I like code that explicitly looks like the thing that I'm doing, so if what I'm doing is "check if a file exists and use it if it does, do nothing if it doesn't" and I'm "reasonably" confident that nothing's going to move, then I'll just write the code that does that.
10:50:27  <aars>Hi. I'm trying to figure out how I can/should install a package that has outdated dependencies in node v0.12.7. Specifically, node-workflow (npm package 'wf'), it depends on an old bunyan, which depends on an old dtrace-provider (0.2.8) which does not compile on v0.12.17 (osx, but I don't think that matters)
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10:51:11  <aars>Use an older version of node? Updated dependancies by hand in a fork? npm shrinkwrap after updating dependencies? I'm a bit clueless about this issue.
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10:55:10  <fra>hi guys, my nodewebkit app sometime starts ans some other doesn't. Either in OSX and in Windows, I can see the window appearing for a second and then close down. I can't reproduce any error
10:55:43  <fra>when launching the app with node.. how can I have a traceback from the nodewebkit app itself?
10:56:08  <aars>fra: https://github.com/nwjs/nw.js/wiki/Crash-dump ?
10:56:19  <fra>ah.. cool
10:56:26  <fra>thanks!
10:56:40  <aars>NP. It should get you started.
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10:57:36  <GreenJello>aars, forking it is ideal, but using 0.10 is probably a faster and easier change
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10:58:22  <GreenJello>fra, just a tip, electron seems to be better than nw; I've had a better experience with it at least
10:58:43  <fra>ahh yes, I've read that.. but I can't get any crush dump at all... I'll try to change the dump location and see if changes anything
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11:00:59  <fra>GreenJello, Thanks, I'll look at electron. Is there any builder/helper to build apps as nodewebkit-builder(gulp/grunt eventually). I really like the convinience of nodewebkit, but I'm not really bound to it...
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11:02:55  <GreenJello>fra, yeah https://github.com/atom/electron/blob/master/docs/tutorial/application-distribution.md
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11:04:47  <GreenJello>maybe that's not the right page... iirc there's a simple command you run to create binaries, but I've only used it for local projects
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11:05:00  <gurke_>hey GreenJello :)
11:05:05  <GreenJello>o/
11:05:09  <gurke_>how are you doing?
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11:05:35  <fra>GreenJello, great!! I'll surely give this a try. My sever works, so I assume the problem is in the init of nodewebkit, I've found the grunt-build-atom-shell... I think it's almost the same of what I'm using for nodewebkit
11:06:00  <GreenJello>gurke_, good, you? :-)
11:06:08  <aars>GreenJello: Thanks for clearing that up. I'll fork it.
11:06:11  <GreenJello>fra, oh and electron even supports auto updating out of the box!
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11:06:25  <gurke_>GreenJello, yea... working on something great :)
11:06:33  <GreenJello>care to share?
11:06:39  <gurke_>sure
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11:11:11  <_rgn>you can't use ES6 import syntax to achieve this, right? foo(require('bar'))
11:11:41  <yho>that would be an insanely bad way to program too
11:11:45  <yho>require first
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11:12:03  <_rgn>insanely bad way?
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11:12:18  <_rgn>sounds like a blanket statement
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11:33:13  <DarkChaoz>so im trying to understand routing and tried following a tut to copy another file from a directory to root. index file is copied just fine but the other file not so much
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11:33:15  <DarkChaoz>http://pastebin.com/FqKx50Bt
11:34:02  <DarkChaoz>i get this following error http://pastebin.com/23r1yrcG
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11:47:20  <stride>darkchaoz: what express version are you using?
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11:49:15  <curiousityKilled>I can't seem to find any info on when is v0.13 expected to be realeased and what are expected features? (I'm looking to find out when can I start using generators). Any advice?
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11:54:27  <_SLM_>Quick question - in developing general CRUD applications, what has helped your biggest productivity gain?
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11:55:24  <Carolin>Getting other people to do the work
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11:55:26  <bberry_>DarkChaoz, express 3.x uses sendfile (with lowercase f) and express 4.x uses sendFile, with uppercase
11:55:38  <_SLM_>hehe
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11:58:08  <_SLM_>That works great as long as you´re not too involved in a project I think. When you´re building your own product, that option becomes expensive and slow I think
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11:58:29  <_SLM_>Too many mediocre coders
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11:58:59  <_SLM_>But yeah
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11:59:48  <Verge>Is there some way to prevent Express router from calling another route's handler if something matched before
11:59:54  <yho>if you're doing simple crud, meteor+autoform+collection2 is unbeatable in speed
12:00:10  <Verge>I have two handlers for /foobar and /:type and both are called for path '/foobar'
12:00:17  <yho>but anything that plugs into something else you're in a world of pain for :)
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12:00:43  <Carolin>_SLM_: totally agree
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12:01:00  <yho>there's also tons of all sorts of crud generators
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12:01:14  <Carolin>But im a mediocre coder, so for me its in my interest to find people better at coding to do the work quicker and better :P
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12:02:34  <_SLM_>yho, how does meteor compare to Sails.js?
12:02:54  <_SLM_>carolin :)
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12:04:15  <_SLM_>yho, looks good
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12:05:11  <Joelesign>Hi everyone!
12:05:18  <austinkeeley>hello
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12:06:04  <Joelesign>I am new with task runner and I actualy use Gulp for a small project
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12:07:06  <Joelesign>I'm looking for a way to add auto-reload for my .php files (index.php here)
12:07:06  <Joelesign>Here's my gulpfile.js : http://pastie.org/10329324
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12:07:36  <_SLM_>Verge, you shouldn´t cause these kind of duplicates. asking for bugs.
12:07:38  <Joelesign>I've try many ways but without sucess
12:08:05  <Joelesign>Thanks for help. :)
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12:08:17  <Verge>_SLM_: Well, to me this is basic functionality with other frameworks when working with PHP etc.
12:08:35  <Verge>I.e. first matching route is executed
12:08:43  <Verge>Not every single match
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12:09:19  <Verge>But I'll do something else
12:09:22  <_SLM_>First match is also executed on my current Sails setup
12:09:26  <Verge>In the end I was probably going to unify the handlers anyway
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12:09:32  <_SLM_>IMO dont use Express alone, use a framework
12:09:46  <_SLM_>I did express alone before, lots of reinventing the wheel
12:09:48  <Verge>Express not a framework?
12:09:51  <Verge>I agree
12:09:55  <_SLM_>it´s the basis of
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12:10:05  <_SLM_>there are several based on it, like Sails
12:10:31  <Verge>But that leaves me asking the question, why is Express there in the first place then
12:10:42  <_SLM_>Same reason Node is there
12:10:47  <_SLM_>You build on top of Node
12:10:51  <Verge>Because seems to me lots of its shortcomings require writing components from scratch
12:10:56  <_SLM_>You dont use Node and do everything from 0
12:11:13  <Verge>Like no prioritizing in the router
12:11:15  <Verge>Strict FIFO
12:11:20  <_SLM_>Node -> Express -> Framework
12:11:25  <Verge>ok
12:11:46  <austinkeeley>other than Sails, what are some good frameworks that sit on top of Express?
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12:11:55  <austinkeeley>The only one I've looked at is sails
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12:12:10  <_SLM_>http://krakenjs.com/
12:12:18  <_SLM_>for example
12:12:29  <Verge>This is just a simple REST API that does almost nothing else par compiling simple search queries, so I guess I am fine with Express alone for now
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12:13:19  <austinkeeley>ooooo... krackenjs has a yeoman generator
12:13:27  <_SLM_>Yes and no, Verge, it will do for more (=yes) but when you grow/scale you will run into problems because you dont have a strong foundation (=no)
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12:13:38  <Zeukkari>asdasd
12:13:51  <_SLM_>Sorry, when I saw Sails I just choose that one. You should use github to look for others
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12:14:17  <_SLM_>I look at competitors, but so far I am sticking
12:14:38  <_SLM_>*it will do for now - verge - typo
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12:15:41  <DarkChaoz>sorry was afk, im using 3.24 stride
12:15:51  <_SLM_>https://github.com/search?o=desc&q=express+framework&ref=searchresults&s=stars&type=Repositories&utf8=✓
12:15:52  <Verge>Maybe
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12:16:05  <DarkChaoz>*3.2.4
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12:29:01  <Implaoo>Hey, I'm looking for a package that takes a string (key) and an object and resolves the dot-notated string to a property in the object
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12:29:24  <Carolin>Hey all
12:29:43  <Carolin>I only use node these days, but now i have to look at some old work we did which used PHP
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12:30:04  <Implaoo>sort of like this: http://pastebin.com/rB2TVzin
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12:30:21  <Carolin>I dont want to have to set up a server, install a whole LAMP stack, upload the two or three php files just to get it to work. Is there a way to get a webserver that understands PHP running, just like Node?
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12:30:32  <Carolin>Like, um, chrooted to a directory
12:30:53  <Verge>Most recent PHP versions have built-in server
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12:31:31  <Implaoo>Carolin: this is #Node.js. I'd use docker for this though
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12:31:44  <Verge>http://php.net/manual/en/features.commandline.webserver.php
12:31:46  <stride>darkchaoz: ye, what bberry_ said, it's sendfile there. might want to consider upgrading though
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12:32:22  <Carolin>Verge: dayum :D
12:32:24  <Carolin>awesome
12:32:40  <Verge>But you might also find a pre-configured VirtualBox image somewhere
12:32:57  <Carolin>Ah, its ok, this command line server is exactly what i need
12:32:59  <Carolin>and all i need
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12:33:17  <Carolin>God looking at this code i remember why i switched to Node in the first palce
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12:33:56  <Verge>Well, it's no wonder PHP frameworks seem to rewrite even the standard library
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12:37:16  <Guest86110>If any one can help! How can we develop our skills in node? Reading, building on our own... ?
12:37:24  <Guest86110>Thank you
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12:38:21  <gemtastic>Build stuff and have it code reviewed is my recommendation
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12:38:51  <gemtastic>You can read for a lifetime, but practising is what really matters.
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12:39:47  <Guest86110>@gemtastic thank you :)
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12:40:44  <lennym>Guest86110: The tutorials on http://nodeschool.io/ are good too if you haven't done them yet (and the more advanced ones are good for a refresher even if you have)
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12:41:31  <Guest86110>@lennym i've done them :)
12:41:50  <lennym>Guest86110: Then go out and build things! Get your hands dirty.
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12:42:52  <Guest86110>hmm okey! and by building what are the things that I should build in order to test every aspect of the language?
12:43:04  <Guest86110>And thank you in advance :)
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12:44:11  <lennym>Guest86110: I feel like you're coming at that from the wrong angle. Why do you want to learn node? What is the thing you hope to achieve once you're "finished" learning? DO that now!
12:44:21  <lennym>(unintentional caps)
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12:45:29  <Guest86110>hmm I see.. Thank you <lennym>
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12:46:21  <lennym>Once you start trying to achieve something then the exact things you need to do to get there will be more apparent.
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12:48:20  <Guest86110>hmm and do you encourage me to use modules or I need to try to build things from scratch and use them after...
12:48:37  <lennym>Nah, use whatever modules you like.
12:48:43  <Implaoo>Guest86110: generally, just do stuff over and over
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12:48:52  <Implaoo>How doesn't really matter that much, as long as you progress
12:49:09  <Implaoo>I'm sure there are some better and some worse ways of learning, but each to his own
12:49:13  <lennym>Although it's often enlightening to delve into, examine and reverse engineer modules.
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12:49:59  <lennym>Certainly don't treat modules as closed boxes. Open up the code, debug inside, and feedback into modules. But try to never worry about NIH-ism.
12:50:27  <Implaoo>When I begun I had an issue where I never did anything because I felt my code quality was bad and unconventional and that there were much better ways of doing things
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12:50:48  <Implaoo>Eventually you'll learn those better ways, just gotta keep going at it :P
12:51:14  <DarkChaoz>whats the best way to execute php in node.js
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12:51:30  <Sharaal>DarkChaoz: don't do it
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12:51:37  <Guest86110>haha I see :D thank you @Implaoo and @lennym :)
12:51:41  <lennym>DarkChaoz: WUT?! That is indeed some dark chaos.
12:52:02  <lennym>DarkChaoz: But if you absolutely had to, i guess child_process.exec('php', ...)
12:52:05  <oddvar>maybe what you mean/want is to redirect to a php page?
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12:52:38  <bberry_>Why does js have block scoping at all? In C, you know when memory is going to be cleaned up based on scope, but since js has a gc, what benefit does block scoping (let) provide?
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12:53:34  <Sharaal>bberry_: what? the only difference is js has function scope and gets block scope with let
12:53:59  <bberry_>Sharaal, yeah, let is specifically what im talking about, what benefit does `let` provide
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12:54:22  <Sharaal>bberry_: you are able to define variables with only block scope?
12:54:48  <bberry_>right, but why would anyone do that?
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12:55:09  <Sharaal>bberry_: because most variables doesn't need more
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12:55:34  <TyrfingMjolnir>What is best practice for authenticating a REST API?
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12:56:53  <Sharaal>bberry_: smaller scope means earlier gc means more effective memory usage, you are not forced into define loop variables as long as the function scope exist, you are able to define loop variables within the block scope in which they are used
12:57:25  <Implaoo>bberry_: http://pastebin.com/p1GhcCfc
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12:58:32  <DarkChaoz>why
12:58:33  <bberry_>hmm. maybe its just me, but i only very rarely use for/while loops, preferring the iterator methods instead
12:58:43  <DarkChaoz>whats with PHP and node.js lol
12:58:53  <bberry_>in which have function scoping anyway
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12:59:04  <Sharaal>DarkChaoz: you don't want to mix it
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12:59:54  <Sorella>bberry_: it has blocks (for, while, if, etc), so it makes sense to have block scoping. Some other languages don't have blocks (Lisp dialects, Mermaid, Self, Smalltalk, ...)
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13:00:03  <bberry_>so at that point, it is just in `if` and `switch` statements that i can really get any benefit from block scoping
13:00:07  <Sharaal>bberry_: and you don't use if {}? I would say in es6 there is no need of var, you should always use let
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13:00:19  <bberry_>and i dont really use `switch` either lol
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13:00:23  <bberry_>or, case, rather
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13:00:50  <Sorella>bberry_: you could write your JS as if it was Lisp or Smalltalk, but no one does that
13:00:54  <Implaoo>bberry_: nonetheless, it's a very welcomed and needed feature
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13:01:23  <Sharaal>bberry_: but feel free to just not use it if you don't understand the advantages :)
13:02:03  <Sorella>In particular, no one writes code like this: https://gist.github.com/robotlolita/74e84e23bdca25c95486#file-doors-js-L80-L82
13:02:31  <bberry_>Sharaal, i understand the advantages, but the advantage is pretty small if all im trying to do is to scope a variable inside `if` statements
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13:03:48  <Sharaal>bberry_: the advantage is to have block scope, use it or not. its not that large advantage people are forced to use it. but it will speed up your apps / let your apps more effective use the memory, some apps more some apps less marginal
13:03:54  <DarkChaoz>im trying to make a php based app with node.js
13:04:03  <DarkChaoz>thats why
13:04:09  <Implaoo>bberry_: let doesn't hoist variables either
13:04:11  <Sharaal>DarkChaoz: you should learn what php and node.js are
13:04:32  <Sorella>Sharaal: they won't really speed up your apps
13:04:35  <bberry_>Sharaal, does the garbage collector free the variable memory when leaving the block scope?
13:04:47  * iChatterquit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
13:04:56  <bberry_>or does it just collect whenever it needs to, as always
13:05:09  * soee_joined
13:05:17  <bberry_>(er, talking about when variables are declared with `let`, of course)
13:05:22  <Sharaal>Sorella: the not existings hoisting for let doesn't speed up?
13:05:28  <DarkChaoz>I'll just google it.. you're of no help.
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13:05:44  <Sharaal>bberry_: yes, thats the definition of block scoped variables
13:05:58  <Sharaal>DarkChaoz: because your questions make no sense ^^
13:06:05  <Sorella>Sharaal: no. Hoisting is irrelevant anyway, scoping in JS is static, so compilers can already figure everything about the scope of a variable.
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13:06:23  <Sharaal>Sorella: ok, so forget the speed up argument :)
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13:06:29  <bberry_>haha
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13:08:17  <Sorella>(The same is true for "const". The compiler can already figure that out, so the only benefit is communicating your intent to other programmers)
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13:08:45  <Sharaal>and throwing error if something ignore it
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13:09:26  <Sorella>Does assigning to a const in ES6 throw an error? It didn't in old SpiderMonkey implementations
13:09:28  <bberry_>i guess my only point is that since javascript uses functions for so many api calls, is event based, etc, etc, that function scoped vars is all that is needed, outside of some edge cases
13:09:32  <Sorella>>> const a = 1; a = 2; a
13:09:32  <ecmabot>Sorella: (number) 1
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13:10:03  <Sharaal>Sorella: wasn't that an advantage of 'use strict';?
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13:10:52  <Sharaal>it can be little bit tricky if it just ignores the assignment :(
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13:12:20  <Sorella>I've stopped following ES6, so dunno really.
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13:12:37  <Sorella>The only features that really matter to me are the new collections and PTC
13:12:43  * diogogmtquit (Quit: diogogmt)
13:12:47  <Sorella>(Though generators could also be interesting)
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13:13:03  * Sorellawonders if she should add coroutines to her language
13:13:04  <bberry_>Sorella not arrow functions?
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13:13:27  <Sorella>bberry_: I don't write JS :)
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13:14:08  <bberry_>haha, right.
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13:14:13  <bberry_>using purr full time yet? :P
13:14:32  <Orionstein_1>Hi #node.js, wondering about opinions here on postgresql orms for node, do you have a preference, should one be used?
13:14:35  * malkomalkoquit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
13:14:48  <Orionstein_1>asked in #pgsql but wondering about node specific opinion as well
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13:15:10  <Fernandos>hi
13:15:14  <Sorella>bberry_: Sweet.js. Purr isn't production-ready yet
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13:15:37  <Sorella>Orionstein_1: do you need an ORM though? :)
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13:16:10  <bberry_>Sorella: oh right, forgot you use that. that is on my long list of "things i need to look into" >.<
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13:16:57  <Fernandos>Can you recommend a framework that's suited for building WebApps aimed to be highly-scalable from day1? I mean using various cloud services, graphdb's, machine-learning, i18n, easy templating, API oriented..
13:17:16  <bberry_>Sorella: and even with sweet js, youve probably written your own specific pseudo language using sweet js at this point anyway! :P
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13:17:26  <Fernandos>I'd love to use swagger with it
13:17:31  <Fernandos>swagger.io
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13:18:02  <Fernandos>I just found http://totaljs.com/ but I've never heard about it..
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13:18:42  <Sorella>bberry_: most of the macros I use are from github.com/natefaubion. I've written just a few of them, mostly DSLs for very specific things
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13:18:54  <Fernandos>I recently stubled over sailsjs, which appears very feature rich
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13:19:11  <bberry_>Sorella, gotcha. ill add it to the list :P
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13:21:01  <yoshokatana>Sorella assigning to const SHOULD throw an error, but I believe in latest chrome it doesn't
13:21:01  <yoshokatana>(I think it does in ff?)
13:21:30  <Fernandos>Does someone have experience with SailsJS?
13:21:31  <yoshokatana>nope, it doesn't in ff
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13:21:37  <yoshokatana>huh. mdn says it should be throwing an error in ff (36+)
13:21:41  <yoshokatana>but it's not in 39
13:21:43  <yoshokatana>ok
13:21:47  <yoshokatana>it does in strict mode :-) (in ff 39)
13:21:51  <yoshokatana>but it doesn't throw an error in strict mode chrome 44
13:21:51  <yoshokatana>awesome.
13:21:52  <yoshokatana>.______.
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13:22:34  <Sorella>yoshokatana: I see. That's an ancient version of SpiderMonkey though, not even ES6's const.
13:22:46  <yoshokatana>ah, interesting
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13:33:24  <Verge>umm
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13:34:00  <Verge>Didn't var foo = "bar"; items.push({foo: "foobar"}) produce an object with key "bar" instead of "foo" before?
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13:34:11  <Verge>As in browser JS
13:34:25  <Sharaal>Verge: in browser js it doesn't work too?
13:34:29  <Sharaal>!?
13:34:43  <Sharaal>items[foo] = "foobar" will work
13:35:16  <Verge>It has worked so far since forever
13:35:17  <Sharaal>or better var obj = {}; obj[foo] = "foobar"; items.push(obj);
13:35:28  <Verge>If the unquoted key name is a variable, it should use variable's contents
13:35:33  <Verge>And otherwise the actual key
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13:36:42  <Sharaal>Verge: var a = 'b'; console.log({a: 'c'}); results in my browsers in Object { a="c"}
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13:37:04  <Sharaal>never heard something like you mentioned works
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13:38:09  <Sorella>Verge: it has never been like that. Object literals never had the concept of computed properties, that's a new addition in ES6
13:38:36  <Sorella>b> var foo = "bar"; var a = { [foo]: "foobar", foo: "not foobar" }; a
13:38:40  <babelbot>Sorella: (okay) { bar: 'foobar', foo: 'not foobar' }
13:38:52  <Verge>hmm
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13:39:54  <Sharaal>nice to know, I should start to switch to es6 ^^
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13:40:25  <Verge>But I've used this stuff a million times
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13:42:14  <Sorella>Verge: you haven't, since it literally never existed :)
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13:44:27  <Verge>This will make writing JS quite hard
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13:47:33  <Sorella>Verge: why?
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13:49:12  <Verge>For the reason you just specified
13:49:22  <Verge>Instead of one-liners the code is longer
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13:49:39  <DevAntoine>hi
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13:51:02  <Sorella>Verge: one-liners are hardly readable though. And you can use ES6, or write a combinator to create objects for you.
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13:51:19  <DevAntoine>I've installed node and npm ages ago, when it was not even available in my distro's repo. I want to remove it cause I've got issues with path and sudo and do a clean install again, but I don't know how to proceed neither where it is installed
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13:51:46  <Sorella>>> function set(a, b, c){ a[b] = c; return a }; var bar = "foo"; set({}, bar, "foobar")
13:51:46  <ecmabot>Sorella: (object) {foo: 'foobar'}
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13:53:14  <superc>one beginner question: I have an array msg.payload: [ { "id": 2, "firstname": "cc", "lastname": "ll", "birthday": "0000-00-00", "salary": 2000 }, { "id": 3, "firstname": "cc", "lastname": "ll", "birthday": "0000-00-00", "salary": 7000 } ] ... how can I access it? If I say msg.payload[0] I get (undefined)
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13:57:53  <superc>so no idea?
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13:58:19  <superc>msg.payload[0]["firstname"] says also (undefined)
13:58:25  <superc>I'm really going mad
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13:59:43  <Sharaal>>> var msg = { payload: [ { "id": 2, "firstname": "cc" } ] }; msg.payload[0]["firstname"]
13:59:43  <ecmabot>Sharaal: (string) 'cc'
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14:00:17  <Sharaal>you do something wrong we can't see with your example
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14:00:57  <superc>I guess thats my problem too
14:01:01  <superc>I'm using nodered.org
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14:01:32  <superc>and my result form the mysql node is contained in the array called msg.payload
14:01:58  <ferhaty>superc: http://pastebin.com/tym2SRiK
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14:02:09  <ferhaty>works using the node cli
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14:02:47  <superc>that is what I would expect...
14:02:48  * mujiquit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
14:03:39  <mattt>is there an easy way to replace ^M characters in a string?
14:03:44  <Sharaal>superc: the object has another structure, find out which
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14:04:38  <superc>well, if I print msg.payload with the debug output I get "[ { "id": 2, "firstname": "cc", "lastname": "ll", "birthday": "0000-00-00", "salary": 2000 }, { "id": 3, "firstname": "cc", "lastname": "ll", "birthday": "0000-00-00", "salary": 7000 } ]"
14:05:06  <superc>but replacing msg.payload with msg.payload[0] results in (undefined) as output
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14:05:42  <Sharaal>superc: well, thats not possible
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14:06:35  <ferhaty>mattt: str.replace (e.g. str = str.replace(/(?:\r\n|\r|\n)/g, '<br />');)
14:06:42  <Sorella>superc: that looks like a String, not an Array
14:06:53  <Sorella>superc: if it's JSON, you need to parse it first, with JSON.parse
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14:07:14  <Sorella>>> JSON.parse('[ { "id": 2, "firstname": "cc", "lastname": "ll", "birthday": "0000-00-00", "salary": 2000 }, { "id": 3, "firstname": "cc", "lastname": "ll", "birthday": "0000-00-00", "salary": 7000 } ]')[0]
14:07:14  <ecmabot>Sorella: (object) {birthday: '0000-00-00', firstname: 'cc', id: 2, lastname: 'll', salary: 2000}
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14:11:39  <superc>something seems to be wrong with the nodered thing I guess
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14:13:23  <Sorella>superc: what's nodered?
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14:14:29  <mattt>ferhaty: i used str.replace(/\cM/g, '\n')
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14:16:51  <ferhaty>mattt: ^M should be a carriage return. So you can just replace it with any other character using str.replace()
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14:19:00  <joneshf-laptop>is it possible to put keywords with spaces when you use `npm init`?
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14:21:34  <mattt>ferhaty: cool, thanks!
14:21:38  <MrBackLacK>Hi, i would like to profile my node app and put the data in a log but when i do node --prof myapp it takes forever to execute, am i doing something wrong ?
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14:24:12  <greves>i'm missing something fundamental about karma, how do i require in the files that i want to test?
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14:26:23  <sadtaco>Man...
14:26:46  <sadtaco>When is nodejs going to catch up to where jsdom4x and other more modern stuff works on it? :|
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14:26:54  <sadtaco>Some things won't work on nodejs. Other things won't work on iojs. Meh.
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14:27:38  <superc>@sorella: nodered is www.nodered.org ... some visual implementation
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14:28:42  <Sorella>I c
14:28:49  * Sorelladislikes the idea of flow-based PLs
14:29:28  <Sorella>For most things, at least. Could work with FRP for some very specific domains
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14:31:44  <bberry_>sadtaco, i think theyre hard at work merging iojs and nodejs. IIRC, they plan on being done in october?
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14:32:08  <arkaros>Anyone who have used bookshelf with node who can answer a lazy guy like me a question
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14:32:20  <arkaros>What event is called first. saving or creating/updating?
14:32:23  <sadtaco>October eh... not super far away but ugh
14:32:29  <Kamuela>if I'm using an express.Router() that needs bodyParser, how do I do that in api.js rather than app.js?
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14:33:08  <lennym>Kamuela: In exactly the same way. Routers have a .use method
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14:34:24  <bberry_>sadtaco, i might be off on that, im trying to find the statement in github
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14:35:50  <lennym>Kamuela: So you can mount a body parser anywhere you like, on any path you like. It's not something which has to be done at the top level.
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14:36:24  <lennym>Kamuela: router.use('/literally/just/this/one/path', bodyParser.json());
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14:38:43  <ProgramKing>Can someone help me out?
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14:39:13  <bberry_>sadtaco, hmm i think i am wrong, they have a milestone for the first converged release set to august 31
14:39:24  <mzgnr>hey everyone
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14:39:43  <mzgnr>I have a question
14:39:56  <bberry_>sadtaco, https://github.com/nodejs/node/milestones
14:40:04  <mzgnr>can I render Jade template from mongoldb ?
14:40:08  <mzgnr>mongodb *
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14:40:46  <sadtaco>That won't be a "stable" release will it?
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14:43:21  <dabura667>Anyone here good with xslt stylesheets for xml?
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14:50:28  <Kamuela>Thank you lennym
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14:58:28  <bberry_>sadtaco, not sure
14:58:40  <mzgnr>can I render Jade template from mongodb ?
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15:00:17  <Kamuela>it IS npm install --save to add dependencies to package.json, right?
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15:01:09  <lennym>Kamuela: Yes, or --save-dev as appropriate
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15:01:28  <Sharaal>or just edit the file ^^
15:01:36  <Kamuela>that's what I thought, weirdest thing is i deleted node_modules, and tried --save and package.json is not being written to anymore
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15:05:31  <Sharaal>I am the only one always edit the file, never use —save? :)
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15:07:41  <CaptainMeow>Is it possible to set environment variable inside an npm run script?
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15:08:25  <stride>"foobar": "FOO=bar node script.js"
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15:08:42  <joneshf-laptop>Sorella, whys that?
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15:08:57  <joneshf-laptop>Sorella, re: disliking fbp
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15:10:29  <Sorella>joneshf-laptop: I just don't feel like it's the right visualisation for most cases. A textual description of a Haskell program conveys the meaning in a simpler, easier to understand way than a flow based representation of the same program, for most things.
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15:10:58  <Sorella>The only case where I can see it working reasonably okay-ish is when you're dealing with streams and want to emphasise the data flow between different transformations
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15:14:19  <kebman>So what's the benefit of using socket.io over Express with templating?
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15:17:04  <Onionnion>kebman, I don't see how so
15:17:28  <Onionnion>but socketio is for websockets
15:17:53  <kebman>Say if you wanted to make a small chat in your general design
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15:18:17  <Sharaal>with socket.io and express you can mix rest api calls with socket events
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15:18:48  <kebman>Ok so whenever I wanted chat I'd go trouch socket.io and for the rest use ajax/rest ?
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15:19:00  <Sharaal>e.g.
15:19:09  <joneshf-laptop>Sorella, k
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15:19:39  <kebman>But then, chat is rather slow, could Express handle it alone with templating?
15:20:01  <kebman>I mean what could go wrong? ^^
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15:20:49  <Sharaal>kebman: with chat I assume some client side thingy in which you can type and see new messages if other user types. not very good scenario for server side rendered pages with express templates
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15:21:39  <kebman>Yeah that would be the general idea, yes.
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15:22:05  <mdev>kebman express+socket.io can handle chat beautiful
15:22:36  <Sharaal>or only socket.io, for only chat I doesn't see the need of express
15:22:37  <mdev>socket.io is a websocket implementation with lot of features, that works even with browsers that don't support websockets, has various methods like long ajax polling etc...
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15:22:53  <mdev>express makes using SSL with socket.io a lot easier
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15:23:19  <Sharaal>good argument ^^
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15:23:24  <kebman>Hm so socket.io would be good for something like Agar.io? But Express+templating would suck at it
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15:23:44  <Sharaal>kebman: yes
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15:24:33  <kebman>Though am I right in thinking that if I wanted a chat box inside a "bigger design" I could use socket.io alongside Express?
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15:25:02  <kebman>Best of both worlds, right?
15:25:04  <Sharaal>kebman: express + templating is good e.g. landing pages and things needs to be seo available in multiple languages
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15:25:34  <Sharaal>kebman: yes, express and socket.io works good together
15:26:17  <kebman>Yea tyty :) Just started wondering after making a version of that introductory chat program
15:26:26  <kebman>using socket.io
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15:30:01  <iamtony>Hi all - quick noob-ish dependency injection question.... moduleA depends on moduleB, so in main server.js I give moduleA a moduleB factory via DI... moduleA also depends on lodash... should I also pass in utility libs like lodash via DI, or just require them directly in moduleA?
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15:32:19  <Sharaal>iamtony: Both is possible. I require all libs only into a DI container which is used in the modules. my modules doesn't have any require
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15:35:55  <Sorella>iamtony: you can get rid of all that complexity and confusion by not using DI frameworks. They're not needed, since Node supports parametric modules (which are more powerful, and subsume DI frameworks)
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15:35:59  <iamtony>Saraal: Ah OK - A container is a good idea - saves multiple copies of the libs in node_modules right?
15:36:04  <iamtony>*prevents
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15:38:44  <Sharaal>iamtony: npm saves multiple copies of the same lib in the same version
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15:41:20  <Sharaal>iamtony: like sorella say, DI frameworks are not really needed in node.js, for me its just for having a easier configuration and better overview
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15:42:39  <iamtony>Ah, I wasn't using a framework - just code like module.exports = function(someFactory, otherFactory) {}
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15:43:07  <iamtony>Just trying to get my head around where to require things like lodash that would be required by lots of modules
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15:43:46  <Sharaal>in every module or one time and give into the modules, makes no real difference
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15:45:07  <iamtony>Sharaal: OK thanks for the help. I'm reading a node design patterns book ATM and confusing myself :-)
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15:45:49  <Sharaal>iamtony: if you need more input / confusing: https://github.com/dragonnodejs/getting-started :D
15:46:31  <iamtony>Sharaal: Awesome, thanks!
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