00:00:00  <chiper>use it normally
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00:01:38  <node1js155>Hello! I am new to nodejs but I am wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction of a nodejs web interface. Essentially, I am trying to find a way to execute a node function on a linux server from a webpage and return the result to the browser.
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00:03:03  <matschaffer>node1js155: the “AN EXAMPLE: WEBSERVER” on http://nodejs.org/ is basically that
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00:07:08  <Hestil>has someone tested mocha + yields? it looks that it doesn't require the done() method for my tests
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00:18:36  <ThePendulum>What is the proper way to pass a variable from a form to another page?
00:18:42  <ThePendulum>(through submitting it)
00:18:56  <myndzi>eh?
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00:19:07  <chiper>put it in the session and then spit it out when the request comes back
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00:19:34  <myndzi>app.post('/foo', function (req, res) { res.render('bar', req.params); }); or something
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00:19:57  <chiper>that's not an ideal solution. your posts should be redirecting
00:20:00  <myndzi>you should probably 301 the result of a post though, so maybe stash it on the session or add it to a query string
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00:20:15  <myndzi>yeah, i was just demonstrating the simple answer first :P
00:20:40  <ThePendulum>chiper: It redirects to another page but I have no idea how to read the POST data
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00:20:53  <myndzi>use the bodyparser middleware
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00:21:11  <chiper>ThePendulum: : you need to put the post data somewhere that will still exist when the redirect comes back
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00:21:39  <chiper>which is what sessions are for
00:21:40  <ThePendulum>chiper: Isn't the very point of the action= of a form that the POST data exists at that file?
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00:22:11  <chiper>ok, there's a disconnect here
00:22:17  <myndzi>res.redirect('/bar?things='+encodeURI(stuff)) maybe
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00:22:50  <myndzi>really depends on what the data is and what you want it for though
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00:23:02  <ThePendulum>myndzi: It's just a string of text, for now
00:23:16  <chiper>ThePendulum: the post data goes to one route handler, the path you defined as the action. that handler needs to store the data it receives into a session and redirect the user to the next form. the route for that form then pulls the data from the session in order to put it into the form
00:23:18  <myndzi>what's its purpose?
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00:23:49  <ThePendulum>This seems to be such a primary thing to construct a website with yet it strikes me as the most alien thing one could possibly try to do
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00:24:00  <ThePendulum>myndzi: for now it will set the topic of a chat room
00:24:08  <myndzi>often when you feel that way you may be trying to do something that could better be done another way ;)
00:24:09  <ThePendulum>but I was hoping to eventually work with a database
00:24:38  <myndzi>so you see, with a database it gets easier since you can just update the title as a result of the post, which is really how it ought to be
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00:25:48  <ThePendulum>I'm still not sure how I'm even supposed to capture the post data, let alone insert it into a database. How is that easier than just trying to get the value to begin with?
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00:26:21  <myndzi>capturing the post data = use the bodyparser middleware
00:26:30  <myndzi>it'll make it available on the request object for you
00:27:04  <ThePendulum>that'd be express in this case?
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00:27:14  <ThePendulum>at least, given I am using express, it'd be express
00:27:17  <myndzi>... no. it'd be "bodyparser"
00:27:30  <chiper>you would use the middleware with express
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00:27:33  <myndzi>or, well, body-parser
00:27:33  <myndzi>https://github.com/expressjs/body-parser
00:27:41  <chiper>but the middleware itself is a separate package
00:27:54  <chiper>it parses the post data and puts it on req.body
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00:28:03  <ThePendulum>ah right
00:28:22  <ThePendulum>could someone give a rough description of what exactly node.js itself is designed to do?
00:28:35  <ThePendulum>it seems like I'm using modules for the most primary of server activities. I'm asking out of curiosity
00:28:47  <ThePendulum>what's an ideal purpose for it
00:28:54  <myndzi>node.js is a set of libraries to make js usable on a server
00:29:09  <myndzi>browsers don't readily do things like file access and network access for obvious security reasons
00:29:10  <chiper>I'd take it even lower then that
00:29:11  <myndzi>so you need stuff for that
00:29:18  <raypulver>I'm using node.js to build a command line shell
00:29:26  <raypulver>you can npm install -g jsh
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00:29:30  <chiper>node.js is a system for running javascript as standalone code.
00:29:50  <chiper>just like python and ruby
00:29:58  <myndzi>yes, "usable on server" ~= "standalone" here, i mean
00:30:12  <raypulver>my node.js program allows you to execute shell commands side by side with javascript, or one within the other
00:30:13  <myndzi>it rounds out the api so it's no longer a purpose specific scripting language
00:30:14  <chiper>it provides a set of core functionality to do that, and only that
00:30:25  <myndzi>well, a little more
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00:30:30  <chiper>it also happens to include a really nice http core
00:30:34  <myndzi>i mean, the http library for example isn't precisely bare minimum
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00:30:39  <ThePendulum>I'm a little spoiled having worked primarily with apache I assume :P
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00:30:57  <chiper>but all that core does is handle the very basics of requests
00:31:02  <ThePendulum>I
00:31:03  <ThePendulum>whops
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00:31:29  <chiper>so you have to put stuff on top of that core to do the rest of it, such as routing and serving up files
00:31:30  <MI6>joyent/node: Trevor Norris merge-review2 * ae6444d : Merge branch 'v0.10' into merge-review2 - http://git.io/qniVww
00:31:59  <raypulver>btw IRC if you guys want to give my program a test run mixing JavaScript and shell commands can be fun
00:32:01  <ThePendulum>I understand body-parser is a module on itself?
00:32:10  <ThePendulum>Or it's a class of modules I have to make a choice in?
00:32:16  <raypulver>and I'd like to know if there are any bugs, so please try to break it
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00:32:34  <raypulver>npm install -g jsh, you'll be glad you did. who needs bash right?
00:32:38  <myndzi>both really
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00:32:47  <myndzi>i mean, the 'body-parser' module does what you want
00:32:48  <chiper>body-parser is a module of its own, designed to be used in conjunction with express
00:32:58  <myndzi>there are some other options that do that and also handle file uploads
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00:33:08  <ThePendulum>I'm quite honestly not even sure what I'm using atm, I assume express
00:33:13  <ThePendulum>but http is also defined
00:33:18  <chiper>body-parser belongs to a class of modules called middleware, which are functions designed to be inserted into the middle of the http request flow
00:33:22  <myndzi>http is a built in module with node
00:33:24  <raypulver>express builds on http
00:33:29  <ThePendulum>ah right, I was about to ask that
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00:33:33  <raypulver>actually, does it even use it?
00:33:34  <myndzi>express is an external module that .. yeah, builds on http
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00:33:37  <raypulver>or does it just use net
00:33:44  <chiper>raypulver: it uses http
00:33:45  <myndzi>it uses http
00:33:55  <myndzi>it passes you request/response objects that are http classes
00:33:59  <raypulver>ah ok
00:34:00  <myndzi>extended by express's own stuff
00:34:10  <chiper>raypulver: an express app is just a function to be used with http.createServer()
00:34:31  <ThePendulum>everything seems fair enough
00:34:36  <chiper>app.listen() calls http.createServer and passes in itself, returning the server object
00:34:44  <ThePendulum>but it's so alien to me, it feels so weird to have absolutely no clue what is logical to do next
00:34:56  <ThePendulum>v1.0 of this app is going to be a frankenstein creation
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00:35:14  <chiper>if you're used to apache + php, it's a totally different paradigm
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00:35:22  <ThePendulum>chiper: I've come so far :P
00:35:34  <raypulver>ThePendulum: once you are familiar with all the core middlewares to use you'll get comfortable
00:35:36  <node1js155>looking at the webserver example on nodejs.org main page, it creates a webserver at 127.0.0.1:1337. Does that mean that if I put http://the.servers.ip:1337 into a browser on a connected computer I should see the Hello World from the example?
00:35:40  * chipergoes afk
00:35:52  <myndzi>node1js155: not quite
00:36:03  <myndzi>if it's listening on 127.0.0.1, only the computer running the server will be able to do that
00:36:15  <raypulver>unless you use some ssh action
00:36:19  <myndzi>if you listen on 0.0.0.0 instead, your statement will be accurate, assuming no network interference like firewalls and such
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00:36:32  <ThePendulum>raypulver: then you're still on the computer running the server
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00:37:12  <raypulver>fair
00:37:23  <myndzi>he was probably talking about using ssh to proxy connections, but it's still not the same as "just typing the ip in your browser"
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00:37:44  <node1js155>myndzi great thank you! I got a new error but I'm 1 step closer
00:37:47  <raypulver>I just meant like a -L tunnel
00:37:58  <raypulver>but yeah its not
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00:53:46  <Pak>Hello channel, I recently made something via nodejs, would love to get your ideas on it
00:53:47  * nodweberquit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
00:53:48  <Pak>http://archillect.tumblr.com/
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00:56:05  <maxd>Pak: animations?
00:56:17  <Pak>maxd, it's a self generating tumblr
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00:56:31  <maxd>Pak: oh, fractal stuff?
00:56:35  <Pak>it picks certain topic and wikiwalks on tumblr to generate a share list
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00:56:51  <Pak>Ah the images aren't generated, they're only collected and shared maxd
00:57:16  <Pak>Social media interaction makes the bot smarter every day
00:57:29  <Pak>makes it decide what kind of posts are better
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00:59:52  <maxd>Pak: ah, so it looks for trends?
00:59:54  <maxd>interesting
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01:00:06  <Pak>maxd, kind of
01:00:19  <Pak>more like popularity of taste
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01:01:44  <maxd>Pak: what is a wikiwalk?
01:02:04  <Pak>maxd, it is when you reach some place clicking the links in wikipedia
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01:02:26  <Pak>you always click a link and move to the next page, suddenly you're at a completely differnt topic 10 clicks later maxd
01:02:35  <Pak>but it's still somehow connected to the earlier posts
01:02:46  <maxd>Pak: those links to wikipedia are on tumbler pages?
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01:03:01  <Pak>maxd, Oh no, I used wikiwalk as a term for how it works
01:03:07  * EzeQLquit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
01:03:19  <Pak>currently the bot moves from tag to tag, and finds blogs
01:03:26  <maxd>Pak: in the web?
01:03:27  <konobi>rvagg: ping
01:03:36  <Pak>maxd, mainly tumblr
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01:04:52  <maxd>Pak: So it checks the popularity of tags, checks the wikipedia page for keywords in new tumbler posts, how does it decide what tumbler stuff should be added to the bot page?
01:05:03  <Pak>maxd, no wikipedia
01:05:11  <Pak>wikiwalk is just a term I used to describe how it worked
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01:05:21  <maxd>ah
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01:05:34  <maxd>how comes the bot to a wikipedia article?
01:05:42  <maxd>by scanning the words used in tumbler?
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01:05:53  <Pak>No wikipedia maxd :)
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01:06:03  <Pak>no realation with wikipedia at all
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01:07:32  <maxd>Pak: ok, so it walks through related tags
01:07:41  <Pak>maxd, sort of, yes
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01:08:24  <maxd>and it weights each tag by the popularity tumblr indicates for that page/snippet?
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01:20:00  <MI6>joyent/node: Chris Dickinson v0.10 * 1425ccd : src: re-add 1024-bit SSL certs removed by f9456a2 - http://git.io/9u_b7A
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01:21:19  <morenoh149>does anyone do node with postgres?
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01:43:23  <konobi>yes
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01:43:34  <konobi>not me though =0P
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01:48:03  <konobi>any node addon authors around that would be willing to be a sounding board?
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01:50:55  <Aria>Definitely.
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02:20:46  <owen1>what is the reason that almost everything in node is async? is it because of the V8 or is since node is trying to immitate js the language as close as possible?
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02:21:18  <myndzi>wat
02:21:33  <myndzi>node runs javascript
02:21:36  <myndzi>it's not imitating anything
02:21:47  <myndzi>async because that's the point of having a single threaded event loop system
02:22:11  <owen1>true, but it makes managing a code base less trivial than sync.
02:22:27  <myndzi>not really, just different
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02:23:35  <owen1>so since node just uses javascript, even if ryan wanted to make it async, it would be impossible?
02:23:41  <owen1>i mean sync
02:24:05  <myndzi>i mean, it's possible to make synchronous functions in node, but it would pretty much defeat the purpose
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02:24:09  <owen1>i thought it's some V8 limitation
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02:24:34  <myndzi>it's kind of like asking "why aren't you using asparagus in this apple pie?"
02:24:44  <myndzi>it's not like you can't bake an asparagus pie, it's more like why would you want to? :P
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02:25:13  <GreenJello>owen1, it's designed to allow doing things concurrently, such as handling a bunch of http requests and database requests and facebook/twitter/etc api requests all at once without worrying about threads
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02:25:35  <ziikutv>Hi guys I am using Hapijs along with Knex + Bookshelf + Postgresql. When launching the index.js file I get some funky error https://gist.github.com/bhargavrpatel/760dd509329cda3c98ef
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02:25:51  <owen1>GreenJello: right, but many times u want things sync. why couldn't they add api for sync?
02:26:00  <myndzi>looks like you typoed "port" as "post"
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02:26:12  <GreenJello>owen1, they do for a lot of things, but if you want that you probably shouldn't be using node
02:26:18  <myndzi>the error code pretty literally points you directly to the problem :P
02:26:20  <Aria>The problem with sync is that it's infectious.
02:26:20  <GreenJello>use python or something
02:26:26  <owen1>GreenJello: got it
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02:26:29  <Aria>Then people write libraries that are sync, and you want to use _those_
02:26:41  <myndzi>owen1: because one blocking function call ruins the entire event olop
02:26:42  <Aria>But you can't do anything while those functions are running.
02:26:42  <myndzi>loop*
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02:27:06  <Aria>This is what ~every other language has. Ruby has EventMachine, but you have to use threads to do a lot of stuff with it, because all the libraries use sync functions.
02:27:13  <Aria>Python has Twisted, and same deal.
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02:27:17  <owen1>myndzi: GreenJello so it's not a V8 limitation. it's a design choice?
02:27:25  <myndzi>yes
02:27:38  <Aria>So it's definitely a design choice. Node was weirdly lucky in that js has no existing sync IO API.
02:27:49  <Aria>'cept maybe XMLHttpRequest, and nobody wants to generalize THAT
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02:27:58  <myndzi>well that's to be expected in a way since js doesn't really have io
02:28:11  <Aria>Exactly.
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02:28:53  <ziikutv>wow
02:28:54  <Aria>It's weird for a language to get popular without that. So IO got added late, and all async -- so we can have a huge, all-async library.
02:28:55  <GreenJello>before es6, it was spec'd as a synchronous language with no side effects :-)
02:28:55  <ziikutv>I am so stupid
02:29:08  <ziikutv>thanks myndzi
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02:29:20  <myndzi>np
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02:29:40  <jsys>GreenJello, no side effects?
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02:30:07  <owen1>GreenJello: javascript was speced as a sync language?
02:30:13  <owen1>can u elaborate?
02:30:29  <jsys>It wasn't so what's there to elaborate.
02:30:35  <jsys>DOM events where there since day 1.
02:30:39  <ljharb>there wasn't anything in the JS spec prior to ES6 about asynchrony
02:30:46  <ljharb>Promises represent the first mention of it
02:31:03  <jsys>Why mention it.
02:31:04  <GreenJello>yeah all of that stuff was added by the host environment
02:31:08  <owen1>ljharb: is there a plan to have promises as a feature of the language?
02:31:16  <ljharb>more than a plan, it's already in there
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02:31:28  <ljharb>ES6 has them natively, node 0.11's v8 has them natively, and node 0.12's v8 will have them.
02:31:35  <owen1>ljharb: oh. what version? i thought generators are added as well.
02:31:42  <ljharb>owen1: https://www.npmjs.com/package/es6-shim
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02:31:54  <ljharb>generators are in ES6 as well, but promises and generators are complementary - they don't solve the same problem at all
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02:32:00  <GreenJello>things like events, file/network IO, console.log, html dom, node's require(), etc. are all defined elsewhere
02:32:03  <ljharb>you can't do async without promises, even with generators.
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02:32:17  <ljharb>well, without promises or callbacks actually
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02:32:45  <owen1>ljharb: what problems does promises solve and what problems generators solve
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02:33:06  <ljharb>owen1: "The point of promises is to give us back functional composition and error bubbling in the async world." https://gist.github.com/3889970
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02:33:35  <ljharb>owen1: generators, for one, let you avoid splitting a task into multiple functions, because using "yield", you can simply pause execution of a generator function
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02:35:12  <owen1>ljharb: for people that avoided using node due to it's 'all async' nature, is promises or callback help in any way?
02:35:32  <ljharb>owen1: that's a silly reason to avoid anything; async is way better than sync.
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02:35:49  <ljharb>owen1: but yes, code that uses both promises and generators can *look* very synchronous, even tho it won't be
02:35:57  <owen1>unless you don't need the async nature all the time.
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02:36:15  <owen1>ljharb: perfect. thanks
02:36:29  <ljharb>you do need it most of the time
02:36:46  <ljharb>if you're doing any input or output, which includes anything that talks to disk or the internet
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02:37:00  <owen1>ljharb: so in the near future we might see a lot of code (both browser and node) with both promises and generators?
02:37:18  <ljharb>near future for node. far future for browser, unless you use a transpiler/compiler like traceur or 6to5
02:37:37  <ljharb>but there's already lots of code using promises, and the es6 shim i linked above will let you use them in nearly every browser
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02:38:26  <owen1>ljharb: ok. but u said above that i'll need both promises and generators to please those 'async is horrible to maintain' folks.
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02:39:44  <ljharb>i don't think pleasing them is a good goal.
02:39:53  <ljharb>if you want to use a tool, you need to know how it works.
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02:40:11  <ljharb>i'd love to meet one of those folks, sync is what's horrible to maintain.
02:40:12  <owen1>would u personaly start using promises and / or generators?
02:40:17  <ljharb>i've been using promises for years
02:40:25  <ljharb>i doubt i'll use generators for years.
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02:40:31  <owen1>ljharb: go/ruby is easier to maintain. for most people
02:40:42  <ljharb>anyone who thinks so hasn't had to maintain a large ruby app
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02:40:47  <ljharb>ruby is a nightmare to maintain
02:41:07  <owen1>are u sure it's because of the sync aspect?
02:41:15  <owen1>i think it might be because of gems
02:41:18  <ljharb>it's because of lots of things.
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02:41:25  <ljharb>the language itself is a huge part.
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02:41:38  <owen1>that's what go solves, i think
02:41:52  <ljharb>i don't have experience with go, but i've heard lots of smart people tell me to stay far away from it.
02:42:56  <owen1>ljharb: is the reason u use promises is maintainabilty/readability/error handling? also, do u use it both server and browser?
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02:43:03  <ljharb>yes and yes
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02:45:28  <owen1>so on the server u use node 0.11 and on the browser u use https://www.npmjs.com/package/es6-shim ?
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02:47:55  <RLa>not seen many people use aolbonics here
02:48:00  <Aria>Promises sure can tidy things up. I'm definitely not sold on generators.
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02:48:15  <RLa>wel will get promises+generators
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02:50:43  <Aria>Yeah, but that doesn't mean we have to (ab)use them to do IO and make everything into function*.
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02:52:37  <owen1>Aria: do u use callbacks now and are u planning to use promises?
02:52:50  <Aria>There's nothing that stops one from using promises now.
02:52:58  <owen1>i also heard about performance issue with promises
02:52:59  <Aria>There's no reason one has to use a native implementation, for what it's worth.
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02:53:36  <Aria>Promises/A+, which became the basis for the ES6 spec requires deferring to the event loop for every resolution -- it makes it easier to reason about promises in non-promised contexts. That has a cost.
02:53:51  <Aria>But most of the 'Promises are slow!!!' are people using the Q library. Which has been very, very slow.
02:53:58  <owen1>i am thinking of a team with mulitple projects. that can be a nightmare if every project will use a different style. callbacks/promises with library x/generators/ generators with promises of library y etc
02:54:03  <Aria>A lot of other promise libraries are faster.
02:54:06  <bros2>I want to open a connection to a REST API that will be kept-alive and reused throughout a server. I thought I did it, but the first request always takes 200ms+ while the subsequent ones are in the ~50ms range.
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02:54:55  <bros2>http://ideone.com/QIQ4MH
02:55:09  <Aria>owen1: Sure, if they have poor understanding of the interfaces, or make big, complex interfaces. But it's not that hard to bridge between different styles.
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02:55:30  <Aria>owen1: such that it can be a simple "promisify this callback-providing function" in many cases.
02:55:54  <myndzi>that's pretty much all you have to do
02:55:57  <myndzi>promisify your functions on import
02:56:07  <Aria>Yeah. In the vast majority of cases.
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02:56:58  <owen1>myndzi: "that's pretty much all you have to do" are u talking about a case when i work on a project that uses callbacks but i want to 'convert' it to promises?
02:57:21  <myndzi>no, it's more about when you work on a project that uses promises and you need to use calllback-providing libraries
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02:57:36  <bros2>What's the proper way to simply open a connection (not make a request) to an HTTP server so that the socket is kept in my keep-alive reuse pool?
02:57:36  <bros2><bros2> Will HEAD / suffice?
02:57:41  <myndzi>when you use promises, you want everything ot be promises
02:57:47  <myndzi>mixing back and forth in the same code is problematic
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02:58:17  <myndzi>you should leave the pooling to the agent
02:58:28  <bros2>myndzi, I'm using keep-alive-agent
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02:58:33  <bros2>Is this wrong?
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02:58:40  <myndzi>i don't know what that is
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02:58:48  <bros2>Does node.js do this natively?
02:58:57  <myndzi>if you use an agent, keep-alive is used i believe
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02:59:10  <myndzi>it should be enough just to make requests as you want them
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02:59:49  <bros2>myndzi, when my server initializes, how can I open a HTTP connection that will be kept-alive and ready for use? I'd hate to not have a connection until the first request is required.
02:59:58  <myndzi>why is that?
03:00:07  <myndzi>that's just not really how http works
03:00:10  <bros2>myndzi, eh, if I can optimize it, I'd like to.
03:00:10  <owen1>myndzi: so let's my project is using promises and i am using a library that uses callbacks. can u give an example code of 'promisify my function on import'?
03:00:11  <myndzi>maybe what you want is websockets
03:00:25  <bros2>myndzi, I'm providing a WebSocket interface to a REST API.
03:00:28  <myndzi>var fs = require('fs'), Promise = require('bluebird');
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03:00:36  <myndzi>Promise.promisifyAll(fs);
03:00:39  <bros2>why bluebird?
03:00:52  <myndzi>because bluebird is a good promise library, and it provides a 'promisifyAll' function
03:00:56  <owen1>he is talking to me
03:00:58  <myndzi>i don't know the apis of other libraries well enough to say
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03:01:20  <myndzi>bros2: servers will drop your connection when it idles too long
03:01:27  <myndzi>there's no good reason really to try to pre-open connections
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03:01:43  <owen1>myndzi: and now i can use the fs library as if it returns a promise?
03:01:48  <myndzi>if you serve enough traffic that the connections stay open, then great
03:01:53  <myndzi>if not, let it close the connection and open it again later
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03:02:09  <myndzi>owen1: yes; by default, bluebird's promisifyAll appends the 'Async' suffix
03:02:14  <myndzi>so you would use something like
03:02:20  <myndzi>fs.readFileAsync('file').then(...)
03:02:28  <myndzi>i've taken to using '$' for the suffix
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03:02:38  <myndzi>which you can do with Promise.promisifyAll(fs, { suffix: '$' })
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03:03:07  <myndzi>bros2: i think you're in a classic case of premature optimization :P
03:03:16  <myndzi>that is, you should probably not worry about it unless you're solving an actual problem
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03:03:33  <myndzi>once you start trying to manage the connections by yourself you're fighting with the agent
03:03:40  <myndzi>at that point i guess you may as well write your own agent
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03:04:07  <bros2>myndzi, how do I use the http agent library? Just, don't set anything?
03:04:12  <bros2>Is it automatic?
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03:04:25  <bros2>I didn't know node offered a way of doing it. I'm looking at the documentation now but I'm still not sure how to use it.
03:04:26  <myndzi>use of the global agent is automatic, i believe yes
03:04:37  <myndzi>if you set the agent to null it will use Connection: close
03:04:43  <chiper>myndzi: asparagus pie made me laugh for a good 30 seconds. that's a great analogy
03:04:47  <myndzi>i believe you can instantiate an agent to use, but i'm not really sure what the purpose of that is
03:04:50  <owen1>myndzi: thanks!
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03:07:09  <bros2>myndzi, one last question, a bit unrelated. thank you, by the way
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03:07:31  <bros2>myndzi, I'm staring down the line of about... 15 SQL tables I'd have to implement, just converting JSON responses and their keys/values into rows/columns. This feels... really stupid. What would you do? Switch over to a non-relational DB or just bite the bullet, bang out the CRUD calls with some sort of ORM and call it a day?
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03:08:03  <myndzi>guess that depends on what you're doing
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03:08:12  <myndzi>if all you're doing is fetching key-value pairs, then why not use a key-value store?
03:08:26  <myndzi>are there relational tasks you need to perform? what are they?
03:08:31  <bros2>myndzi, there is a bit of relation between them thought. i'm sort of at a crossroads.
03:08:42  <myndzi>also worth noting postgres 9.3 supports json data types and indexation
03:08:45  <bros2>All of the key-value pairs are account/store/product/item specific
03:08:47  <Aria>HEh, yeah. I'd use a relational store most of the time since my needs evolve.
03:08:59  <bros2>I'm just being lazy, I guess.
03:09:00  <Aria>(and postgresql makes a dandy, fast and transactional k/v store)
03:09:11  <bros2>Aria, how would you bang out 10+ models for different tables?
03:09:23  <bros2>Is there a way to export the table structure and import it into a ORM or something?
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03:10:07  <RLa>write some json files and generate stuff from them
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03:10:14  <Aria>Well, I avoid ORMs in general.
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03:10:28  <Aria>They serve to make what I consider the easy part easier and the hard part harder.
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03:10:44  <bros2>Aria, so you hand write SQL/CRUD models?
03:10:53  <Aria>SQL yes, crud ... not particularly.
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03:11:37  <bros2>you hand write INSERT/SELECT/UPDATE/DELETE?
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03:14:10  <RLa>bros2, you can generate them
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03:14:35  <RLa>i only write them on simple tables that have low number of columns
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03:15:01  <Aria>I do. Templated queries are so very tidy.
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03:15:30  <Aria>(and I think this leads more easily to thinking about the flow and synchronization of data, and less to the separating of entities.)
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03:18:35  <myndzi>what do you mean by 'templated queries'
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03:20:42  <bros2>myndzi, If I wanted to integrate with 5 ecommerce sites, would I be stupid to try to store all of the data in one, agnostic table? I'm pretty sure things like product ID and order ID will be implementation specific.
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03:21:52  <Aria>myndzi: the ones with placeholders for values like ? or :placeholder
03:21:58  <myndzi>well it's fairly obvious you can't rely on things like product ids to be unique across multiple sites
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03:22:32  <myndzi>but you could i suppose use a compound primary key
03:22:36  <myndzi>something like (site_id, product_id)
03:22:39  <myndzi>Aria: ah
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03:23:42  <owen1>"streams are broken" - https://medium.com/code-adventures/farewell-node-js-4ba9e7f3e52b is TJ talking about breaking changes between stream 1 and 2?
03:24:11  <Aria>He didn't say exactly what he meant.
03:24:18  <Aria>But streams are definitely a bit messy!
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03:25:10  <owen1>Aria: why messy?
03:25:33  <jesusabdullah>moving parts
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03:25:54  <Aria>Well, the API has been extended a bit, and kept backward compatibility (mostly)
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03:26:15  <Aria>So it's got some funky details. I personally think that the 'right' streams API is streams2, and that subset is a bit tidier.
03:27:16  <owen1>Aria: is there stream 3? maybe at 0.12?
03:27:39  <owen1>maybe he meant broken from library authors's prespective
03:27:43  <Aria>There is, but it's a more subtle change.
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03:28:10  <Aria>Streams3 bridges the gap between streams1 and 2 a bit more. It's pragmatic, and it works pretty well. It's small refinements.
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03:41:31  <owen1>Aria: jesusabdullah there is an open discussion in io.js about node's roadmap - https://github.com/iojs/roadmap/issues/1 one of the topics is whether streams should moved outside of core.
03:42:06  <Aria>Yes. But that doesn't mean as much as you think it does.
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03:42:20  <Aria>Backward compatibility won't be broken. It's just about choosing a canonical repo.
03:42:22  <myndzi>well considering core makes use of them with no real great alternatives...
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03:42:35  <myndzi>i should hope not ;\
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03:52:31  <owen1>i also read there that WHATWG are about to introduce streams as part of the DOM API
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04:05:01  <opus_>Hello
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04:05:22  <opus_>io.js, whats new with them?
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04:10:26  <yogeshp>I was trying the problem of JUGGLING ASYNC from learnyounode
04:10:54  <yogeshp>how can I proceed without using third party module.
04:11:23  <opus_>whats a good pattern to request a job from a RESTify service, and have it run in the background? I know that seems trivial, but, I'm interested in how people do that. Is there a webworker for node.js or something?
04:11:25  <ChrisPartridge>juggling async?
04:11:34  <yogeshp>http://ix.io/4sz
04:11:56  <yogeshp>ChrisPartridge: async but in order.
04:12:16  <yogeshp>actually is there any way to get url from response received in http.get?
04:12:43  <opus_>req.params.yogeshp
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04:13:14  <opus_>but your function(response) don't jive with that
04:13:15  <ChrisPartridge>yogeshp, well - you need to manage the callbacks, and not use a synchronous loop to do async operations
04:13:42  <Aria>owen1: Yeah, the WHATWG streams are interesting. I'm not sure I like them, but they're a tidier, clean-room API, without node's evolved cruft.
04:13:52  <Aria>owen1: I'm not sure I dig promises being involved. Doesn't feel quite right to me.
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04:16:56  <yogeshp>opus_: are you suggesting some different callback
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04:17:21  <Aria>yogeshp: Is there a reason to avoid third-party modules?
04:18:03  <yogeshp>Aria: no issues. Just wanted to try out solution myself
04:18:10  <opus_>yogeshp, i messed up
04:18:20  <ChrisPartridge>yogeshp, then take a look at async source
04:18:21  <Aria>yogeshp: Actually, an interesting way to learn is to read the source code of things like caolan's async.
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04:18:29  <opus_>yogeshp, if you want to get url from response received in http.get its somewhere in the res object
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04:18:53  <Aria>yogeshp: Most of the tools he built are small. a little more complex than the trivial ones, since javascript and 'this' is weird, but it's still pretty approachable if you break it down.
04:19:02  <opus_>yogeshp, oh crap i messed up again. maybe its in this.options
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04:19:12  <Aria>yogeshp: Then, you'll know how it works -- so you can do the same, with or without his module.
04:19:31  <opus_>this.options.hostname + this.options.path ?this.options.path
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04:21:09  <yogeshp>opus_: great. Will try out with 'this'
04:21:15  <yogeshp>ChrisPartridge: thanks
04:21:17  <yogeshp>opus_: thanks
04:21:23  <opus_>yogeshp, i might be completely wrong
04:21:24  <yogeshp>Aria: thanks
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04:21:33  <Aria>You're welcome.
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06:31:19  <yogeshp>opus_: this._header has the entire information
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06:31:33  <yogeshp>protocol path and host
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07:51:52  <LuckyBurger>Hello all, I am looking to find a good source of information about application architecture in Node.JS, does any one have any suggestions ?
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08:38:27  <caffeinewriter>Ahoy
08:38:27  <caffeinewriter>Ahoy
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08:38:49  <ChrisPartridge>ello
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08:39:37  <caffeinewriter>How goes it?
08:40:24  <ChrisPartridge>well, thanks
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08:45:14  <caffeinewriter>Does anyone here have experience with making Passport work with Express 4x? I'm having some trouble with user serialization.
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08:58:58  <Mia>Hey channel
08:59:00  <Mia>I got a question
08:59:10  <Mia>how can I understand what is causing my memory to grow?
08:59:16  <Mia>for some reason my app is growing in memory
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09:03:43  <caffeinewriter>Mia: You may be able to figure out the cause by using something like the memwatch module.
09:03:44  <caffeinewriter>https://www.npmjs.com/package/memwatch
09:04:08  <Mia>caffeinewriter, hmmm I see -- do I have to put it everywhere and trck manually?
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09:04:23  <Mia>is there anything that does similar things in a more automated way
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09:05:46  <caffeinewriter>Hmm... Not sure. I know there are some services that provide more detailed heap analysis for node.
09:05:46  <caffeinewriter>http://grokbase.com/t/gg/nodejs/12c2e6qbgc/node-js-memory-leak-detection
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09:06:49  <caffeinewriter>You might be able to use the NodeTime free plan to figure out some of the problems.
09:06:51  <caffeinewriter>http://nodetime.com/
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09:07:52  <Mia>my second question is: what's the advantage of redis when we can already keep stuff in variables?
09:08:05  <Mia>I mean if I can keep an array already, for instance, why store it in redis?
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09:10:51  <caffeinewriter>Redis is persistent, variables are not. Redis stores will persist between application restarts.
09:10:58  <ChrisPartridge>Mia, if you have a clustered process, or several machines serving requests for the same application, you want somewhere all the machines can talk to maintain state
09:11:06  <caffeinewriter>^that as well
09:11:17  <ChrisPartridge>Well, i wouldn't use redis for persistence at all
09:11:24  <Mia>ChrisPartridge, caffeinewriter of I udnerstand about multi-machines part
09:11:31  <Mia>but what's the persistance issue?
09:11:38  <Mia>what do you mean by "not persistant"?
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09:11:57  <ChrisPartridge>Redis is all about keeping stuff in memory, you can persist with it, but it's not really what it's for, e.g. don't use redis as a database
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09:13:31  <GreenJello>redis is designed to be fast more than anything else, there are more reliable kv stores if you want persistence
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09:13:39  <caffeinewriter>This may help you too Mia: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7888880/what-is-redis-and-what-do-i-use-it-for
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09:17:47  <Mia>oh I see, thank you GreenJello ChrisPartridge caffeinewriter
09:17:57  <Mia>My current ssue is that I have a growing memory in my app
09:18:08  <Mia>my app starts with 50mb usage and grows in 400mb in a few hours
09:18:13  <Mia>(it might even grow more, idk)
09:18:22  <Mia>and I don't know what causes that
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09:19:22  <GreenJello>v8 isn't very efficient memory wise
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09:26:52  <arcanine69>hey guys, any thoughts on making a mail server in nodejs?
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09:34:29  <GreenJello>arcanine69, I'm sure it's already been done
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09:58:17  <pontiki>arcanine69: sounds like it would be a great learning experience
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10:03:39  <arcanine69>there already is 1 open source out there already
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10:03:43  <arcanine69>but the documentation on it is sub par
10:03:52  <arcanine69>and i dont entertain open source code with poor documentation
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10:05:47  <staar2>hello
10:06:15  <staar2>how to translate this shortcut into linux and windows world ? CTRL + ⌘ + G
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10:08:01  <DangerousDav3>i got a question, using the net module, how can i check if the request is an http one(using a a string buffer) and send it to my own http module and create a response?
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10:10:12  <GreenJello>staar2, ⌘ + G would translate to Ctrl-G so I dunno
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10:47:54  <Axy>how can I pass an array to my client via express
10:48:15  <Axy>I use ejs, but I don2t want to build anything with the array in templating
10:48:26  <Axy>instead I'll do things with the array on client side via jquery
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10:48:34  <Axy>how can I pass the array from server to client?
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10:51:02  <nexxy>Axy: with JSON, I'd imagine
10:51:21  <Axy>nexxy, hm, how?
10:51:36  <Axy>when I do res.render it's still server side right?
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10:51:55  <Axy>I mean the render is happening on server side so the client doens't have access to the variables that are being passed to the renderer, right?
10:52:03  <nexxy>Axy: correct
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10:52:11  <Axy>nexxy, then how can I pass variables
10:52:13  <nexxy>Axy: but you can just do things like res.json(<some object>)
10:52:24  <Axy>oh
10:52:30  <Axy>how do I get it on the other side
10:52:39  <nexxy>perhaps via making an AJAX call
10:52:42  <nexxy>or something of the like
10:52:49  <Axy>I mean I still need to use the renderer to render my page
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10:52:56  <Axy>I additionally need to pass a single variable
10:53:07  <nexxy>you could make them two separate things
10:53:32  <Axy>how?
10:53:35  <Axy>what do you mean
10:53:49  <nexxy>1) a route that renders a page to send the client
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10:53:57  <nexxy>2) a route that just sends a JSON object over the wire
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10:55:04  <Axy>nexxy, ı don't want to deal with ajax or similar
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10:55:12  <Axy>wht I was doing so far was this:
10:55:24  <Axy>pass the variable to templating,
10:55:30  <Axy>put it into a div in templating,
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10:55:33  <Axy>and make the div hidden
10:55:38  <Axy>then read the div on clientside
10:55:42  <Axy>and do stuff
10:55:45  <Axy>But that's too hack
10:55:53  <nexxy>why not just render it to a <script> tag or something
10:56:03  <Axy>Oh!
10:56:05  <Axy>makes sense!
10:56:08  <nexxy>:)
10:56:10  <Axy>I ddn't know it was possible!
10:56:16  <Axy>letme try!
10:56:19  <nexxy>everything is possible!
10:56:21  <nexxy>this is the future!
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10:59:37  <Axy>it didn't work nexxy
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10:59:59  <Axy><script>
10:59:59  <Axy>var test = <%=array%> </script>
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11:00:05  <Axy>this is what I did ^
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11:00:59  <nexxy>Axy: try <%- instead of <%=
11:01:08  * jakecraigequit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
11:01:11  <Axy>hm what's the difference
11:01:17  <nexxy>escaping
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11:02:35  <Axy><script>var test = <%-array%> </script> ?? nex
11:02:38  <Axy>nexxy,
11:02:46  <nexxy>I think so
11:02:46  <Axy>this doens't seem to work as well
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11:02:50  <nexxy>I haven't used EJS in forever
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11:10:15  <nexxy>Axy: I got it to work
11:10:29  <nexxy>Axy: I'll gist it, 1 sec
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11:12:05  <nexxy>Axy: this worked for me! https://gist.github.com/nexxy/f56455061ee26f21fb29
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11:16:03  <_rgn>what are the reasons to do `module.exports = exports = somevar`?
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11:16:53  <nexxy>_rgn: none other than looking complicated
11:16:55  <_rgn>if you want to make changes to exported object down the line by referring to exports I suppose
11:17:01  <nexxy>_rgn: just use module.exports and only export one thing
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11:17:33  <_rgn>exports.foo = {}; EOF is bad?
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11:18:43  <nexxy>_rgn: IMHO yes
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11:18:59  <nexxy>_rgn: it makes me type extra things
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11:19:07  <nexxy>like var foo = require('yourmodule').foo
11:19:13  <nexxy>instead of just var foo = require('yourmodule')
11:19:26  <_rgn>well what if yourmodule wants to expose multiple functions?
11:19:40  <nexxy>then it should most likely be more than one module
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11:21:24  <learns>Hello. I can't understand this part "process.argv[2 + index]" why, "2 + index"? - https://github.com/rvagg/learnyounode/blob/master/exercises/juggling_async/solution/solution.js
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11:21:50  <nexxy>learns: 0 is the command (node), 1 is the file executed (solution.js)
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11:22:50  <nexxy>learns: so 2 is whatever parameters were passed to it
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11:23:07  <learns>Oh... Now I see ahah. Thanks :D! I thought if index were 1 then it would be 21
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11:23:19  <nexxy>learns: :) you're welcome!
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11:23:47  <_rgn>console.log(process.argv) is your friend
11:23:50  <nexxy>learns: it would only end up being 21 if index were a string, then + would mean "String concatenation"
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11:24:00  <KushS>I am using passport to authenticate my Express 4 app but the auth always fails. Any help ? Code= https://kushagra.pastebin.mozilla.org/8087183
11:24:24  <learns>nexxy, yes thank you :-)!
11:24:30  <nexxy>learns: ^-^
11:24:32  <nexxy>good luck!
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11:30:16  <learns>After first run then this "results[index]" would be "results[2]" right? and "results[3]" and then "results[4]" but shouldn't it be starting from 0 to 2? - https://github.com/rvagg/learnyounode/blob/master/exercises/juggling_async/solution/solution.js
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11:48:02  <learns>sorry.. Just figured it out aha
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12:00:16  <msg>hey all :)
12:00:18  <msg>hey all :)
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12:01:04  <msg>My app requires express and sqlite3 - but if I run it on a system without it I get a pretty uninformative error back (well, informative to me, but not to a user)
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12:01:32  <msg>Is there a way i can detect if required packages are missing, and if they are, give them some console.log() text saying "run npm install stuff"
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12:01:53  <msg>Like a try/except in python
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12:04:09  <_rgn>ideas how to make a tar archive out of a node app without including dev deps from node_modules? npm install --production doesn't suffice because the dev deps are needed for building, but not for the archive
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12:05:30  <_rgn>hmm https://www.npmjs.com/package/pac
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12:35:11  <msg>your an asdasd
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12:43:37  <learns>Can't get "after" module to work. - https://gist.github.com/anonymous/63b73512961319eb68df
12:44:07  <learns>or library..
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13:37:15  <guy>https://gist.github.com/anonymous/dfdde50e89f33eba6901
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13:37:21  <guy>anyone who is familiar with gulp streams
13:37:26  <guy>how to do this?
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14:04:24  <aeoril>I am new to node.js on Linux (Ubuntu Server 14.04). I have been looking at the Ubuntu node.js installation and usage instructions, and it looks like using nvm might be the best idea. The other alternatives are using the node that comes default with Ubuntu via apt-get or using a ppa to get the latest version. What do most of you guys do?
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14:21:45  <aeoril>I cannot find the "Getting Started" guides on nodejs.org
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14:22:00  <aeoril>(Trying to find the best way to install it)
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14:32:23  <HuchMan>just use apt-get
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14:33:02  <raypulver>I usually compile the latest source. doesn't apt-get give you an outdated version?
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14:33:27  <aeoril>The Ubuntu Docs says the version will be "old but stable"
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14:33:53  <aeoril>maybe not old, but not the latest version
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14:34:24  <raypulver>if I were you I would wget http://nodejs.org/dist/v0.10.34/node-v0.10.34.tar.gz
14:34:53  <raypulver>I'm pretty sure apt-get doesn't give you npm either
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14:35:04  <aeoril>you must apt-get npm separately
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14:35:32  <raypulver>hm
14:35:34  <aeoril>that tarball is the binaries?
14:35:42  <raypulver>no its the source
14:35:53  <raypulver>you just run ./configure && make && make install
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14:35:59  <raypulver>it gives you node and npm
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14:36:21  <aeoril>nvm seems like a very good option, if it works well
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14:36:46  <aeoril>(just from the description of how it works)
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14:37:09  <raypulver>nvm works. I've never used it. seems like it would overcomplicate things
14:37:27  <raypulver>I for one do not need to switch between different versions of node
14:37:32  <raypulver>I just use the latest
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14:39:54  <aeoril>raypulver is it a big build?
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14:40:19  <raypulver>takes like 5 or so minutes for me
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14:40:50  <raypulver>so yeah a little
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14:46:38  <aeoril>This is another way: https://github.com/nodesource/distributions
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15:13:55  <learns>Hello. How do I use this: https://www.npmjs.com/package/after - with this?: https://github.com/rvagg/learnyounode/blob/master/exercises/juggling_async/solution/solution.js
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15:14:32  <learns>Instead of counting the callbacks manually..
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15:17:43  <ziikutv>Heyip
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15:50:25  <silent1297>Hi. I'm currently working with express.js, SSL and socket.io, but Firefox 33 keeps blocking socket.io with the error: "Cross-Origin-Request". Here's my code http://pastebin.com/Agp0ercV. What am I missing?
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15:58:54  <learns>Why does this not work? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/1f9688592c51fae894f2
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16:04:50  <learns>TypeError: Object #<IncomingMessage> has no method 'header'
16:04:53  <shoky>learns: i don't think the request has a "header" method.. it has a headers object property
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16:05:10  <shoky>req.headers['X-Forwarded-For']
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16:05:38  <learns>ahh
16:05:42  <learns>yes thank you!
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16:09:37  <msg>gah
16:09:40  <msg>im really struggling
16:09:47  <msg>to get my head around async
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16:10:06  <learns>yes, I do too :(
16:10:15  <msg>:(
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16:10:27  <msg>Oh well, hahah, we'll get it sooner or later :P
16:10:49  <msg>(just like my callbacks, ho ho ho)
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16:15:23  <msg>http://pastebin.com/3kjT8x1J
16:15:29  <msg>Heres my code
16:15:54  <msg>I query the SESSIONS table to find the table names the user wants to query
16:16:16  <msg>Then for each table they want to query, i run select sum(counts)
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16:16:33  <msg>Put all that output into the output var, then res.json(output)
16:16:44  <msg>but.... im responding before all that database stuff even happens
16:16:49  <msg>so i just get back {} -_-
16:16:57  <msg>But console.log() shows the right stuff
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16:17:42  <msg>So.I know i should do my res.json(output) after all my database stuff has run - but i dont know how to do that
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16:18:04  <msg>like, which callback am i supposed to hook into. How do i initiate a callback.. etc.
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16:21:46  <clearcut>i have like 7000 quotes - i want to create fast search so that when user types in keyword he gets near-live search and filtering - what is the bes option for this fast searching and getting the results, mongodb/map-reduce / elastic search?
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16:22:18  <msg>hahah, 7000 quotes isn't much size/wize
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16:22:23  <msg>You can use anything
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16:22:46  <msg>id use an sqlite database personally, since speed will be just as fast as anything else, and the simplicity makes it very easy
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16:23:55  <msg>CREATE TABLE `quotes` (id INT, quote TEXT)
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16:24:39  <msg>SELECT * from `quotes` WHERE quote LIKE "%" + userQuery + "%"
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16:24:54  <roelof>Hello, For building a financial app. Can I better use express, meteor or the new kid on block koa ?
16:24:57  <msg>But that is a very simple search, which doesnt include gaps, etc
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16:25:15  <msg>There will be better things for doing more sophisticated searching
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16:34:55  <pellis>hi all - whats a good current nodejs stack? like what web framework+async/promises lib + etc to use?
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17:16:02  * Axychanged nick to Mia
17:16:04  <Mia>Hey all
17:16:18  <Mia>I'm not keeping the order number per item in mongodb
17:16:24  <Mia>is it possible to get that info from items?
17:16:33  <Mia>like, "10th entry"
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17:17:47  <opus_>Hello
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