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00:14:48  <shush>No matter how many times I `rm -rf node_modules` and `git checkout -- package-lock.json`, `npm i` wont properly install dependencies.
00:15:02  <shush>"npm ERR! missing: @sentry/[email protected]"
00:15:24  <shush>Why is it missing? It's in node_modules, and it's in package.json and even package-lock.json
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00:16:49  <ljharb>shush: what does `npm ls` say?
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00:37:11  <dylancole>i’m trying to poll for to get Status messages
00:37:14  <dylancole>https://gist.github.com/rehat101/847ccdacbb907290703e9169c3e3af5b
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00:37:24  <dylancole>while the processor is awaiiting for the value
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00:37:36  <dylancole>but it seems like when I do that it only gets the last status
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00:41:47  <Momentum>anyone tried websockets with heroku?
00:41:58  <Momentum>i seem to have a problem
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01:08:21  <shush>ljharb: https://gist.github.com/samholmes/f9d4dfb9722a2cb870bba835c2e101d5
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01:09:26  <ljharb>shush: and `@sentry/node` is in your package.json? can you share a gist of package.json?
01:10:45  <shush>ljharb: updated https://gist.github.com/samholmes/f9d4dfb9722a2cb870bba835c2e101d5
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01:11:41  <ljharb>shush: and what happens if you do `npm install @sentry/[email protected]^4.4.4`
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01:11:43  <ljharb>*4.4.1, sorry
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01:13:51  <shush>ljharb: this happens: https://gist.github.com/samholmes/f9d4dfb9722a2cb870bba835c2e101d5
01:14:22  <ljharb>hm
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01:16:31  <shush>weird huh?
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01:21:56  <shush>ljharb: in node_modules there's @sentry/node/ and @sentry/core/ etc
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01:22:07  <shush>each directory doesn't have a index.js file
01:22:42  <shush>Each directory has a dist directory. But there is no mention of the dist directory in the package.json
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01:44:14  <shush>I published this as an issue: https://github.com/getsentry/sentry-javascript/issues/1793
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01:45:56  <DeltaHeavy>shush Which one? I see it here https://github.com/getsentry/sentry-javascript/blob/master/packages/hub/package.json#L12
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01:55:31  <aleph->Hey is there anything anlogouse to the zip func in python3? A la: for n, i, j in zip(lst1, lst2, lst3)?
01:55:40  <aleph->For zipping together arrays.
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02:20:57  <shush>DeltaHeavy: @sentry/node
02:21:35  <DeltaHeavy>shush Is your issue you don't see `dist` in the repo? https://github.com/getsentry/sentry-javascript/blob/master/packages/node/package.json#L12
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02:21:58  <shush>DeltaHeavy: My issue is that main isn't appearing in the package.json
02:22:06  <shush>dist is in the package
02:22:21  <shush>just no reference to dist/index.js in package.json
02:23:19  <DeltaHeavy>shush That's because it's created via https://github.com/getsentry/sentry-javascript/blob/master/packages/node/package.json#L42
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02:23:27  <DeltaHeavy>It's not source code and therefore should not be tracked in git.
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02:26:49  <shush>DeltaHeavy: I'm looking at my node_modules folder
02:26:52  <shush>not github/git
02:27:00  <shush>Gotta go eat dinner.
02:28:16  <shush>The resulting package from npm install includes a package.json file and a dist directory. However, there is no main entry in the package.json file to reference the dist/index.js file. So, require('@sentry/node') breaks
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02:29:57  <shush>Is my npm broken?
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02:34:54  <im3very1>anyone know any good jobs for a washed up software dev who loves node.js but hates react.js?
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02:59:55  <shush>DeltaHeavy: How does package.json get generated? Does npm do a build step?
03:01:45  <im3very1>shush: package.json is normally generated by 'npm init' command
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03:02:16  <shush>im3very1: Yeah
03:02:36  <shush>im3very1: So build steps are done locally and then published to npm registry
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03:03:06  <shush>im3very1: when you download a project it should contain the package.json as published by the author
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03:03:30  <im3very1>shush: yeah you're right
03:03:55  <shush>im3very1: So why then is npm not downloading the package.json correctly?
03:04:26  <shush>im3very1: why doesn't @sentry/node/package.json contain "main": "dist/index.js"
03:04:28  <im3very1>what version of npm are you using?
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03:04:41  <shush>6.4.1
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03:06:18  <im3very1>package @sentry/node/package.json includes "main": "dist/index.js" to me
03:06:28  <im3very1>I'm using 6.4.1 too
03:07:32  <im3very1>which version of @sentry/node are you using?
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03:13:15  <Intelo>Hi
03:13:18  <shush>4.4.1
03:13:29  <twainwek>does npm check for updates when you call it with a script name under package.json
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03:19:27  <shush>twainwek: What do you mean?
03:20:27  <twainwek>i ran `npm <name of my script>` as usual, except now at the end, it tells me there is a new version of npm available
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03:21:46  <im3very1>twainwek: I think npm periodically checks for updates when you run it
03:22:08  <twainwek>anytway to disable it?
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03:25:11  <im3very1>I don't think so..
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03:25:43  <twainwek>i just find it bizarre that in addition to running a script it sends a network request
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03:27:06  <im3very1>I think most commands do a network request to npm servers anyway. It probably comes back as a header or something on every request so as not to add additional overhead.
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03:30:47  <shush>twainwek: I feel like my version of npm is broken.
03:31:19  <twainwek>shush: what's going on with it
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03:37:48  <DeltaHeavy>twainwek Don't you mean `npm run <name of my script>`?
03:37:59  <DeltaHeavy>Unless it's 'test' or 'start' or one of the other ones.
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03:38:48  <twainwek>DeltaHeavy: yes, my bad, that's what i meant
03:39:14  <DeltaHeavy>twainwek I think it only does it every 'x' number of times you run npm.
03:39:17  <DeltaHeavy>Not sure about that though.
03:39:24  <shush>twainwek: I install @sentry/node and I can't require it
03:39:25  <DeltaHeavy>I doubt it sends a network request every time you run it though.
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03:40:14  <shush>I guess I should just use yarn
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03:41:26  <twainwek>shush: does it show under your </path/to/your/root/proj/dir>/node_modules/
03:41:33  <DeltaHeavy>yarn likely won't fix anything.
03:41:39  <shush>twainwek: Does what show?
03:42:03  <DeltaHeavy>shush How did you install npm? nvm? Official installer?
03:42:08  <twainwek>i'm also running 6.4.1 atm and i've never experienced anything like that. most likely something you're doing that you're overlooking
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03:42:40  <shush>twainwek: If you're asking if the package shows in my node_modules directory, then the answer is yes but incomplete
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03:42:57  <shush>DeltaHeavy: I use n to manage node versions
03:43:37  <im3very1>nvm is the best for managing node versions
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03:45:17  <twainwek>shush: if you'd like i can try replicating what you did on my system
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03:49:35  <shush>I installed yarn and used yarn instead of NPM and it's working now.
03:49:52  <shush>fuck npm
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03:50:21  <shush>I'm so pissed right now. Npm sucks
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03:54:17  <chovy>what?
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03:59:48  <DeltaHeavy>That's weird, would be nice to know what that is but in your shoes I may not care to spend the effort finding out. You could always purge Node and npm from your system and reinstall it, ideally via nvm.
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04:03:05  <shush>DeltaHeavy: I really don't care at this point. My whole day has been wasted because of an NPM issue.
04:03:26  <shush>I'll stick to using yarn from now on because I feel like they are leading the way when it comes to package management.
04:03:30  <shush>over and out.
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04:30:05  <chovy>yard is facebook garbage
04:30:10  <chovy>yarn*
04:30:18  <chovy>npm++
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05:52:42  <velix>Hi there. I have to run a website on a server without internet. Can I just zip up the node-module folder and copy it to another system?
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05:57:30  <velix>oh no... there are not 32 bit ninaries
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08:27:14  <hungrywolf>I am trying to send selected dom element path css selector via a string to another machine
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08:27:23  <hungrywolf>any one has any ideas
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08:27:42  <hungrywolf>at first I thought about div.class#div style but
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08:28:00  <hungrywolf>ui has some functions that set and reset classes
08:28:04  <hungrywolf>on elements
08:28:10  <hungrywolf>so that will be a problem
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08:29:21  <hungrywolf>I've tried doing nth element > div nth element style but there is no easy way to use that selector to select a dom node on the other end using javascript
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08:30:04  <grr12314>why not? :nth
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08:30:41  <hungrywolf>grr12314: on the other end you can't just do querySelector(" < selector string with nth's >")
08:30:57  <grr12314>sure you can
08:31:04  <grr12314>or nth-of-type
08:31:21  <grr12314>or nth-child
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08:32:00  <hungrywolf>document.querySelector("div:nth-child(0)") <<< this gives me null on a page full of such DOM
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08:32:41  <grr12314>because you're counting wrong
08:32:46  <grr12314>try 1
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08:33:26  <hungrywolf>haha
08:33:36  <hungrywolf>I thought it would start with zero
08:33:46  <hungrywolf>grr12314: thanks man
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09:08:21  <c0nundrum>How do i stop node from adding default headers ?
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09:10:36  <c0nundrum>Its getting populated with a whole bunch of stuff from IncomingHttpHeaders that i don't want to use
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11:32:42  <Momentum>good morning
11:33:11  <Momentum>i'm having a little issue when trying to deploy my websocket app into heroku, the error is
11:33:15  <Momentum>"websocket connection to failed: error during websocket handshake: unexpected response code: 200"
11:33:40  <Momentum>anyone have an idea?
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11:38:37  <_rgn>have you googled?
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11:40:50  <Momentum>_rgn: i googled all day all night
11:40:54  <Momentum>no chance
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11:41:16  <Momentum>i read all the related stackoverflows and github issues
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11:46:12  <stennowork>success is an unexpected response? story of my file
11:46:13  <stennowork>life
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11:49:33  <Momentum>the worst thing is when your app fails with 200 status code WTF
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11:51:43  <cdunklau>websockets
11:52:05  <cdunklau>the handshake should end with a 101
11:52:41  <stennowork>end? not start?
11:52:56  <stennowork>oh yeah end, never mind
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11:53:06  <cdunklau>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebSocket#Protocol_handshake
11:53:11  <stennowork>yea yeah
11:53:13  <stennowork>101 upgrade
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11:54:21  <cdunklau>Momentum: so are you going to show us the code
11:54:37  <Momentum>sure
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11:55:02  <Momentum>https://github.com/flurt/kelvin/blob/master/server/index.js
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11:56:15  <cdunklau>Momentum: and what's it logging?
11:56:38  <Momentum>cdunklau: the error message i posted earlier
11:56:53  <cdunklau>Momentum: the server
11:57:41  <Momentum>i don't think it's logging anything interesting from heroku's part, it looks like some nginx garbage that i didn't want whatsoever
11:58:08  <cdunklau>Momentum: what's your Procfile look like
11:58:30  <Momentum>i'm not using a procfile, it's create-react-app that uses a buildpack
11:58:45  <cdunklau>Momentum: uh... how are you deploying on heroku
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11:58:58  <Momentum>what do you mean?
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11:59:43  <Momentum>i just pushed to the remote and added the buildpack
11:59:47  <cdunklau>Momentum: to deploy to heroku, you make a Procfile
11:59:53  <cdunklau>to tell heroku what to run
12:00:11  <Momentum>i think heroku deduces that from the buildpack no?
12:00:25  <cdunklau>i have no idea
12:00:44  <Momentum>in fact the express server is running perfectly, just the socket server
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12:01:34  <gajus>is there any deeeeeper meaning behind
12:01:35  <gajus>https://github.com/eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee/eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ?
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12:01:56  <Steverman>E!
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12:03:02  <stennowork>isn't there an ANSI-TERM escape sequence which just floods your screen with E
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12:04:30  <Momentum>cdunklau: could be SSL? i'm not using any SSL certificates and heroku is serving it with SSL
12:04:53  <Momentum>and i don't know anything about SSL except that request and responses are encrypted
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12:05:06  <cdunklau>Momentum: i don't really see how the express app is supposed to work, you're not telling it to listen
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12:05:35  <Momentum>cdunklau: i am telling it to listen on port 8999 and serving static files
12:05:43  <Momentum>well, react build files
12:05:51  <cdunklau>Momentum: no you're telling server to listen
12:05:52  <cdunklau>not app
12:05:57  <cdunklau>or express or whatever
12:06:04  <Momentum>what's server?
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12:06:23  <Momentum>server = http.createServer(app)
12:06:25  <cdunklau>oh nevermind
12:06:28  <cdunklau>just saw that lol
12:06:30  <Momentum>app = experss()
12:06:34  <Momentum>okay
12:06:46  <cdunklau>if you run it locally does it work
12:06:59  <Momentum>that's the proper way to start Express 4 app
12:07:03  <Momentum>yes it does
12:07:04  <feelextra>I'm a NodeJS newbie, and the only backend stuff I did was setup a REST API with Django RF a few months ago. I'm hearing good things about GraphQL. is this a good choice these days over REST? thinking about express + apollo-server-express + relational db for the backend of a new system.
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12:07:30  <cdunklau>Momentum: okay, so you have to figure out what's different about how heroku runs it
12:07:37  <cdunklau>Momentum: you mentioned nginx... where does that come in?
12:08:07  <Momentum>i see it in the logs and when i open the directory from the heroku console
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12:08:25  <Momentum>feelextra: correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think GraphQL is an alternative to REST
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12:09:26  <cdunklau>Momentum: this one? https://github.com/mars/create-react-app-buildpack
12:09:32  <Momentum>yes cdunklau
12:09:44  <cdunklau>Momentum: "This buildpack deploys a React UI as a static web site."
12:09:45  <feelextra>Momentum: well sure i'd correct that then if you don't mind. GraphQL is a query language for fetching data from another entity (client / server)
12:09:57  <cdunklau>Momentum: "If your goal is to combine React UI + API (Node, Ruby, Python…) into a single app, then this buildpack is not the answer. "
12:10:46  <cdunklau>Momentum: it links to an example https://github.com/mars/heroku-cra-node
12:11:07  <Momentum>cdunklau: i see, yeah actually i didn't read it carefuly
12:11:40  <cdunklau>Momentum: maybe next time try that :)
12:12:04  <Momentum>maybe choose a different buildpack?
12:12:10  <Momentum>yeah obviously
12:12:12  <feelextra>Momentum: if you're interested in knowing what GraphQL is, i found this speaker very easy to understand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFUd-CtnJv8
12:12:17  <Momentum>let me get rid of that bullshit
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12:12:40  <Momentum>feelextra: REST is more of a design pattern than a query language
12:13:07  <Momentum>software architecture to be precise
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12:14:53  <Momentum>cdunklau: i could commit react's /build directory to the remote repo and use a Procfile but /build is not supposed to be commited to git, so that's why i used the buildpack because it builds it on heroku
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12:15:30  <cdunklau>Momentum: i know very little about deploying JS on heroku
12:15:51  <Momentum>me too, i'm just messing around
12:16:11  <Momentum>but thank you cdunklau, obviously that buildpack was so wrong :D
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12:20:25  <Momentum>that buildpack literally mentions nginx argh
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12:41:02  <Mia>Hello channel - what's the right approach to make an app that's deployable to electron and web with pretty much the same code?
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12:41:41  <Mia>I don't want to have two separate versions, and I'm wondering how teams like slack and discord are handling this, or, if there is a basic approach for this.
12:41:41  <mona_x>is there a way to exec a command and get live output ?
12:41:43  <mona_x>oN(
12:41:55  <mona_x>on('data' is not working ... nor is spawn
12:41:57  <mona_x>wtf
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12:43:19  <mona_x>actually it is .. but not through a delegate
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13:01:45  <grr12314>Mia do you use any nodejs apis at all?
13:02:49  <Mia>grr12314, the web version won't have access to sqlite and the electron version will save some things
13:03:15  <Mia>that's the only difference, so in a way, yes, unless there is a way to save things to an sqlite db via browser
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13:05:18  <grr12314>there is indexeddb in browsers instead, but its somewhat more complex. if the things you want to save are not too big of a mess, you can consider just serializing them to localStorage as a simplest option
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13:09:53  <grr12314>you can always make your code branch between two codepaths depending on availability of the node apis. but i guess you want to remove the unused code from bundles for each target?
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13:14:34  <Momentum>Mia: there should be a way to store into a database from websocket connections
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13:14:50  <Mia>Momentum, I don't want to have a server rurnning with this
13:14:56  <Mia>This is a client only app
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13:15:09  <Momentum>for what?
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13:15:19  <Mia>Electronjs can access file system so I can keep things on a db, but besides that ,the web version won't have that option and that's fine
13:15:43  <Mia>this is just experimental stuff, I'm teraching myself electron, nodejs, and looking for a way to have a good deployment route for both using the same codebase
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13:16:03  <Momentum>Mia: websocket is fully supported on modern browseers
13:16:06  <Momentum>browsers*
13:16:26  <Mia>Momentum, that means I'll need a running server, right
13:16:42  <Momentum>i mean if you have a resource of course
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13:16:54  <Mia>Momentum, I don't want to have a running server, this is an offline app
13:17:13  <Mia>ther eis going to be like 10 users, they'll either download or just use it on the browser
13:17:27  <Momentum>so what's the point of using sqlite again?
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13:17:37  <Mia>so electron version is for downloading, in case, you want to keep a certain data on a DB
13:17:45  <Mia>becasue on web version you can't store things in a nsqlite
13:17:45  <grr12314>you can do that with something like https://github.com/nippur72/ifdef-loader or even simpler, with a custom is-electron module exporting a bool const, shimming it to different versions for each target
13:17:55  <Mia>so electron version is the version of the app with "history" data
13:17:59  <Mia>and the web version is without history
13:18:02  <Mia>that's the only difference
13:18:03  <grr12314>then let minifiers' dead code elimination remove the unneeded code
13:18:18  <Mia>OH
13:18:27  <Momentum>i understand Mia
13:19:01  <Mia>grr12314, I'll have a look at this - is this the right way to build two apps using the same (mostly) code base?
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13:20:10  <Mia>I actually built the website first, now I'm trying to build the electron app, most of my code is in <script>'s for the website, so it's like a regular js website build, no browserify or any kind of include* packing
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13:28:12  <stephen>Hello all
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13:38:38  <DeltaHeavy>Mia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07So_lJQyqw
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13:39:24  <cdunklau>Mia: okay well fix that first :)
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13:40:16  <cdunklau>Mia: but what you'd want to do is factor the persistance bits into some object that you can swap out
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13:41:45  <cdunklau>Mia: so for the webapp, you'd use a thing that hits your HTTP API, and for the native app a thing that maybe hits sqlite or whatever
13:41:53  <cdunklau>but make it have a consistant interface
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13:45:35  <Mia>cdunklau, what needs to be fixed, I'm not sure I get it
13:45:44  <Mia>also DeltaHeavy
13:45:46  <Mia>: ]
13:45:59  <DeltaHeavy>ey
13:46:14  <cdunklau>Mia: ...basically everything
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13:46:29  <Mia>can you elaborate please? I'm not sure I get it
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13:48:50  <Mia>cdunklau, ^
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13:49:10  <festercluck>So, the other day during an interview I stated that, currently, (nodejs) microservices is merely a concept, and that concept simply defines small, single purpose services which are both quickly scalable and aim to have the least amount of overhead possible. Would the folks here agree or disagree with that statement?
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13:50:18  <DeltaHeavy>festercluck It's roughly correct I'd say but more accurately I'd refer to it as taking SOA to the *extreme*.
13:50:25  <DeltaHeavy>(Service Orientated Architecture)
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13:50:57  <festercluck>DeltaHeavy, I like that extension. Thanks.
13:51:02  <DeltaHeavy>np
13:51:19  <DeltaHeavy>Also as somebody who's written them a fair bit in the past while...if you don't have a *damn* good reason to, don't.
13:51:24  <DeltaHeavy>https://dzone.com/articles/microservices-please-dont
13:51:39  <DeltaHeavy>“You don’t need to introduce a network boundary as an excuse to write better code.”
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13:53:13  <festercluck>Ah, well, 2 things: 1. The potential employer has already committed to the pattern, and I've learned better than to go into a new job trying to rearchitect. and 2. They've actually got a really good use case, one of the best I've seen. Their business model is already very similar to microservices
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13:54:03  <grr12314>Mia: actually ignore that ifdef-loader crap from above. just add --define XX=true or --define XX=false args (or equivalent setup for DefinePlugin in your config file) and use if(XX) in your code. just tested and dead code elimination works fine for that
13:54:25  <DeltaHeavy>festercluck They have insanely high traffic the varies by huge amounts?
13:54:30  <festercluck>That being said, if we're trying to optimize for hardware usage, we should probably consider stepping down a level and forgoe node altogether if we're in it for real.
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13:55:17  <grr12314>but yea you'll have to start using webpack for that
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13:55:22  <Mia>grr12314, what kind of dead code ellimination are you working? Also, I'll have to converyt my whole app structure to a packed-js (like browserify) form, right?
13:55:29  <festercluck>DeltaHeavy, Yes. They have the reasonable need to be able to scale suddenly, massively, and unpredictably.
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13:55:36  <joepie91>festercluck: what's their business model?
13:55:39  <Mia>Okay, there was a question I asked a few days ago
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13:55:43  <Mia>webpack vs browserify
13:56:04  <festercluck>Until I get the offer (which should be today or tomorrow) my lips are sealed :-)
13:56:11  <Mia>and I was suggested to use browserify but I'm coming across a lot about webpack since yesterday
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13:56:20  <Mia>should I go webpack?
13:56:23  <joepie91>Webpack has gotten a lot of hype in the past ~2 years
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13:56:26  <joepie91>undeservedly, imo
13:56:28  <Mia>(is there a specifi reason)
13:56:35  <Mia>Hm
13:56:45  <DeltaHeavy>Browserify is underrated but IMO, Webpack deserves its praise.
13:57:03  <festercluck>But I'm sure everyone here will be hearing much more about it soon. The way the interview went and their responses at the end, it's almost a slam dunk.
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13:57:10  <DeltaHeavy>festercluck Then yeah, that's pretty much the only reason you'd want to use them.
13:57:21  <festercluck>But there are plenty of people smarter than I in this world.
13:57:22  <DeltaHeavy>Is it on AWS Lambda w/ Serverless?
13:57:26  <joepie91>festercluck: then until then I can't really express more than general skepticism about microservices being the correct solution :)
13:57:27  <Mia>what do you think about poarcel? it directly takes html as the input
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13:57:37  <festercluck>joepie91, fair enough
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13:57:44  <joepie91>Mia: Parcel 2 looks interesting, Parcel 1 looks like a dead end given its non-configurability
13:57:48  <Mia>so if I use webpack, or such, I'll have to somehow manage recreating the HTML as well I believe
13:57:52  <joepie91>and, to some degree, non-extensibility
13:58:06  <joepie91>'recreating the HTML'?
13:58:12  <joepie91>what are you trying to do here exactly?
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13:58:32  <Mia>so I'll have an electron build and a web build, hopefulyl using the same code
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13:58:52  <Mia>for the electron build, the code alreay works as is, it does not need buindling (or does it?)
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13:59:01  <joepie91>DeltaHeavy: my problem with Webpack is that the only thing it briefly did better was 'handling non-1:1 transformations like bundle splitting', except Browserify has caught up since and in every other aspect Webpack is designed worse
13:59:13  <DeltaHeavy>Mia All Webpack does as a baseline, is give you modules (CJS or ESM) at build time, much like how Babel gives you arrow functions for IE at build time.
13:59:18  <Mia>so for the web build, bundling things and using dead code ellimination could be the way for me to deploy it with the same codebase
13:59:25  <joepie91>DeltaHeavy: and it's heavily shiny-thing-driven
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14:00:04  <joepie91>Mia: I'm not seeing where dead code elimination or 'passing in a HTML' file come into the picture here?
14:00:10  <DeltaHeavy>joepie91 I agree it's largely driven by baseless hype, and I haven't used Browserify enough to have a solid opinion on this, but Webpack works great for me. Learning how to configure it...if you're hating on it for that I totally get that.
14:00:26  <joepie91>DeltaHeavy: yeah so the thing is that you don't *need* to learn that for Browserify
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14:00:38  <joepie91>you spend 10-30 minutes reading a few docs and you know how to use it, the end
14:00:53  <DeltaHeavy>Yeah, I can see that.
14:01:17  <grr12314>Mia: https://github.com/hughsk/uglifyify the browserify equivalent
14:01:19  <festercluck>So anyone here been involved with quic implementation in node?
14:01:35  <howdoi>!paste
14:01:36  <ecmabot>howdoi: Please paste your code (gist and other paste sites, NOT pastebin.com or Hastebin) or create a running example: see !fiddle. See also !badpastebin !hastebin !nopaste and !mcve
14:01:55  <darkSeid>is there a general rule for whether you put logic client side or server side
14:02:00  <darkSeid>if its just some basic data filtering
14:02:02  <joepie91>as much as you can server-side
14:02:04  <darkSeid>does it even matter
14:02:12  <joepie91>server environment is predictable, scalable
14:02:15  <joepie91>client environment is not
14:02:18  <darkSeid>right, makes sense
14:02:22  <joepie91>and you want as much logic as possible in an environment you control
14:02:33  <darkSeid>i see
14:02:44  <darkSeid>so its also a security thing?
14:03:00  <joepie91>this is not a security argument, no
14:03:12  <darkSeid>security as in, things are less likely to break my app
14:03:16  * groomjoined
14:03:20  <joepie91>that's more reliability :) in that case, yes
14:03:21  <darkSeid>probably should use 'stability' instead i guess
14:03:25  <darkSeid>yeah good point
14:03:30  <darkSeid>me english, no much good
14:03:33  <joepie91>lol
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14:03:46  <darkSeid>im used to dutch people having better english than me anyway
14:04:17  <darkSeid>we really need to copy whatever teaching methods you guys have
14:04:44  <joepie91>hahaha
14:04:58  <joepie91>trust me, not everybody here speaks English well
14:05:21  <darkSeid>every dutch person i've met has spoken perfect english
14:05:27  <darkSeid>is this just confirmation bias
14:05:32  <joepie91>yes, because you've met the Dutch people who exist in online spaces
14:05:33  * slajaxquit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
14:05:37  <joepie91>English-language online spaces *
14:05:44  <joepie91>as opposed to Dutch ones
14:06:04  <darkSeid>good point
14:06:10  <joepie91>darkSeid: anyway, I've mostly grown up learning English from 'curated media' -- games, TV shows, that sort of thing
14:06:13  <joepie91>stuff that has an editor
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14:06:34  <joepie91>which is why a) I speak a weird mix of British and American English, and b) I learned things correctly from the start
14:06:41  <joepie91>little influence of slang or common mistakes
14:06:56  <joepie91>that's different if you learn it natively
14:07:05  <howdoi>https://jsfiddle.net/0zqn5uch/ on 'data' is getting invoked twice, not sure what is causing that though
14:08:03  <grr12314>why use fiddle if its not supposed to be ran?
14:08:10  <joepie91>darkSeid: (I also didn't learn English at school at all, really; like, when I was 10 years old I might have picked up a handful of things in primary school, but 95% of the stuff I got in school was stuff I already knew)
14:08:55  <joepie91>in school *
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14:09:44  <howdoi>grr12314: anyway it can';t be executed with the config, any other suggestions for paste?
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14:11:00  <grr12314>bpaste or anything
14:11:03  <darkSeid>joepie91 i thought they taught english from a really early age
14:11:13  * pkx3joined
14:11:22  <darkSeid>although i guess it's much better to learn a language the way you did, that way you learn to speak more like a native speaker
14:11:28  <joepie91>darkSeid: yes, but I learned it elsewhere earlier :)
14:11:42  <joepie91>it starts in 'class 7' of primary school here typically, or at least it did when I went to school
14:11:45  <joepie91>which is about 10 years old
14:11:55  <joepie91>maybe 11?
14:13:07  <DeltaHeavy>In Ontario Canada they teach French from grade 4 for 1hr a week, then from grades 6-9 it's 3hrs a week. NOBODY knows French.
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14:13:27  <grr12314>and if you have 2 lines in the stream, you should get 2 data events why is that surprising?
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14:13:51  <joepie91>DeltaHeavy: 'grade 4' means nothing to me
14:13:53  <joepie91>:p
14:13:59  <DeltaHeavy>Yeah...well in grade 1 I was 6
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14:14:05  <DeltaHeavy>So 9 year olds
14:14:11  <joepie91>ah, right
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14:15:11  <Mia>joepie91, so basically, I have this tiny website/webapp that does one thing. I'll have an electron build of it, which can also save "history" to a db. The current website is using the rgular library/script includes via html elements. I can refactor it to work with electron, if it's going to help me build both electron and webapp with pretty much the same codebase
14:15:30  <Mia>I was asking about this and the topic came to dead code ellimination and bundling
14:16:11  <joepie91>Mia: you'd still use a script tag in electron too
14:16:43  <joepie91>and well, yeah, you should use a bundler, it's just specifically dead code elimination and 'feeding in a HTML file' where it's unclear to me why either is needed
14:16:59  <Mia>yes joepie91 but I can learn how to do it the right way
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14:17:11  <Mia>I'm very new to all this, never used bundlers before for regular website builds
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14:17:37  <howdoi>grr12314: pipedStream is just one right? https://bpaste.net/show/ecfa12a871ca
14:17:41  <joepie91>Mia: like with anything, start with the simplest possible thing
14:17:48  <Mia>joepie91, dead code ellimination was a suggestion to mme to use the same code base, I believe, as the web build won't have certain functionality it'll be elliminated from the code
14:17:59  <joepie91>don't try to get everything 100% perfect at first
14:18:17  <joepie91>Mia: dead code elimination is unrelated to your goal here
14:18:38  <joepie91>your bundle will *already* only include the modules that are necessary for your browser build
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14:18:52  <Mia>So what I like to do is, at first, to have an app that I can export(deploy?) as both website and electron app by using the same codebase. The electron app with have an additional functionality.
14:19:01  <joepie91>DCE further removes things from *within* those modules that aren't used (for a very fuzzy interpretation of "aren't used" because the analysis tooling tends not to be that good)
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14:19:14  <joepie91>it's absolutely not required, it's an optimization
14:19:18  <grr12314>howdoi: if es.split does what it says on the tin and splits it into lines, then you get each line separately.
14:19:19  <Mia>joepie91, I've cehecked but for some reason it creates a heavy and messy code when I use a bundler
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14:19:32  <Mia>including the minified .js files are much lightweight
14:19:33  <joepie91>Mia: what do you mean?
14:19:37  <DeltaHeavy>Mia It shouldn't be.
14:19:42  <Mia>Maybe I'm using the bundler wrong
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14:20:00  <joepie91>like, 'heavy and messy code' is really vague
14:20:08  <joepie91>there's no technically useful information in that description
14:20:12  <Mia>bigger in kilobytes, 10 times more lines
14:20:27  <joepie91>how many kilobytes? 10 times more lines than what?
14:20:27  <Mia>so I believe when I "include" things in my js code I'm doing ir wrong, maybe?
14:20:35  <Mia>500 instead of 50 kilobytes
14:20:39  <Mia>more or less
14:20:44  <joepie91>where are you getting the 50 from?
14:20:54  <joepie91>you're evidently comparing stuff to something else, but not defining what the something else is
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14:21:33  <Mia>MAybe, yes. Well I'll try to simplify: For instance for my UI elem�ents I'm using tweenlight, the minified version is included in the html as script element
14:21:59  <Mia>When I use include, and bundling, the tweenmax library that's bundled into my code is much bigger, I believe
14:22:07  <howdoi>grr12314: the es.split is resulting in a data event?
14:22:07  <joepie91>Mia: go back for a moment, not to a different example
14:22:11  <joepie91>you specifically mentioned 50 kilobytes
14:22:15  <joepie91>*what* is 50 kilobytes?
14:22:22  <Mia>of .js code
14:22:26  <joepie91>*what* .js code?
14:22:28  <Mia>summed up
14:22:30  <joepie91>where are you seeing 50?
14:22:34  <joepie91>summing up *what*?
14:22:43  <Mia>Oh, my code, and the libraries I add to my website via script tags
14:22:51  <joepie91>right, okay, that is the answer I was looking for :)
14:22:53  <Mia>so it's like 5 <script> tags
14:22:57  <Mia>Oh sorry :)
14:23:16  <joepie91>so your code plus the 5 libraries as script tags is 50kb, but your code plus the 5 libraries as requires that are bundled is 50kb?
14:23:18  <Mia>and the bundle creates one script, which is bundled, but it's MUCH bigger in comparison to everything else summed up
14:23:19  <joepie91>err
14:23:22  <joepie91>so your code plus the 5 libraries as script tags is 50kb, but your code plus the 5 libraries as requires that are bundled is 500kb? *
14:23:26  <Mia>that was the problem, I believe I was doing something wrong there
14:23:46  <Mia>yes joepie91
14:23:47  * bpeakquit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
14:23:51  <joepie91>right, okay, now i understand the problem
14:23:57  <joepie91>the cause is most likely that you just haven't minified your code
14:24:10  <joepie91>so you're comparing unminified code to minified code
14:24:22  <joepie91>minify your bundle and look at what's left
14:24:31  <howdoi>`through` would be a better option here?
14:24:35  <Mia>letme do this now!
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14:26:31  <Mia>joepie91, ok this is going to take more time as I converted my whole code back to <script> tags it seems, I'll look into minifying it
14:26:36  <Mia>But more importantly, here is my question
14:26:42  * slajaxquit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
14:26:59  <Mia>How can I use this same code to bundle/create two different version of the same app, where, one of them wont have the save option I have in my electron app
14:27:45  <Mia>I mean I'm asking more of a general question actuall, how does one approach this kind of "using the same codebase for both electron and website" situation?
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14:28:35  <joepie91>Mia: didn't I answer that a few days ago?
14:28:38  <joepie91>using the 'browser' field
14:29:32  <grr12314>well thats not quite using the same code :p
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14:30:08  <joepie91>grr12314: they're asking about code sharing :)
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14:30:51  <Mia>where is the browser field joepie91 -- maybe I was too focused on the browserify suggestion, I missed that
14:31:34  <prometh>package.json
14:31:41  <grr12314>its a package.json field that specifies an alternative main file for a module when used in browser vs in node
14:31:56  <Mia>OH
14:31:58  <Mia>Now it's more clear
14:31:59  <grr12314>so kinda does the opposite of using the same code for both...
14:32:02  <Mia>Looking into this!
14:32:11  <prometh>not "when used in browser", but by bundlers that are building for the browser
14:32:41  <grr12314>also browser/electron distinction is not quite the same as browser/node...
14:33:04  <prometh>electron uses the browser field? interesting, and makes sense for it to do so, actually
14:33:07  <Mia>grr12314, mhm, I'm looking for a browser/electron path
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14:33:26  <joepie91>Mia: https://gist.github.com/defunctzombie/4339901
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14:33:37  <joepie91>Mia: eh, sorry, https://github.com/defunctzombie/package-browser-field-spec
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14:33:54  <joepie91>extract environment-specific code into a specific module
14:34:01  <joepie91>load a different version of that module depending on env, using the browser field
14:34:07  <joepie91>rest of the codebase can be the same
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14:34:33  <joepie91>(browserify uses this field when bundling)
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14:34:42  <Mia>okay joepie91 I already have a lot to learn
14:34:46  <Mia>I'll start from here
14:34:51  * bpeakjoined
14:35:02  <Mia>First I have to learn package.json, I though it's just somrthing that keeps track of my libraries
14:35:13  * ffx_joined
14:35:15  <Mia>as I didn't have to bundle/build things before
14:35:18  <Mia>so I'll start from there
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14:35:48  <grr12314>a simpler option is just if(somevarthatisonlydefinedwhenrunninginelectron) {...}
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14:36:08  <grr12314>well, if(window.somevarthatisonlydefinedwhenrunninginelectron) {...}
14:36:12  <Mia>thank you joepie91 prometh grr12314 DeltaHeavy
14:36:16  <DeltaHeavy>Anytime!
14:36:22  <prometh>give me money
14:36:24  <prometh>:P
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14:36:31  <Mia>: ]
14:36:32  <Mia><3
14:36:38  <Mia>grr12314, looking into that as well
14:36:47  <Mia>The problem is not making this work
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14:36:52  <Mia>the problem is to learn this the right way
14:37:04  <Mia>if bundling things is the right way, I've been avoiding it, so maybe this is time to learn, for me .
14:37:10  <Mia>thanks
14:37:25  <joepie91>grr12314: doesn't work for requires
14:37:49  <grr12314>?
14:37:59  <DeltaHeavy>Mia 100% bundling is the right way
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14:41:15  <joepie91>grr12314: requires are always bundled even if you never call them at runtime, which means that you still have a bundling step for a module that may not even be bundle-able
14:41:19  <grr12314>another option is if(process.env.WHATEVER=="x") and `WHATEVER=x browserify -t uglifyify jsfile` that i linked earlier, it will actually remove the if when the thing isnt defined
14:41:25  <joepie91>grr12314: hence why the browser field exists
14:41:34  <joepie91>(which is the correct solution here)
14:41:52  <howdoi>thanks grr12314
14:43:20  <grr12314>joepie91: thats where dead code elimination can help. also shimming the module to {} or whatever
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14:48:33  <joepie91>grr12314: no, it cannot, because it will still cause a bundle failure, and 'shimming the module' is *literally what the browser field is for*
14:48:37  <joepie91>you're adding a lot of unnecessary complexity
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14:48:55  <grr12314>see browserify --ignore arg
14:49:10  <joepie91>yes, I'm sure that there's some hack to work around it
14:49:28  <joepie91>I don't understand why you're being so difficult just to not have to use the feature that was literally designed for Mia's usecase
14:50:03  <grr12314>also the if(window.somevarthatisonlydefinedwhenrunninginelectron) {...} solution you dont need to use a bundler. you just dont call any require() things for the common codepaths, and call it only when its defined(in electron)
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14:51:08  <joepie91>just. use. the. browser. field.
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15:20:50  <vish93>anyone know how i differentiate the command from nodejs, when two modules have same CLI command?
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15:27:05  <briian>hey, how feasible is having a nodejs web application and calling a python script for part of the workflow? i am leaning towards a python dominant stack because the script is already written in python, but my coworker has more experience in JS in general whereas my experience is mostly in php so python would come with the burden of needing to leran that as well
15:27:16  <briian>but i worry slightly about if calling a python script with parameters is going to be unsecure
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15:29:45  <bradleymeck>briian: same problems as shelling out for anything
15:29:58  <bradleymeck>node itself won't make it insecure, it just matters on what is passed/usage
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15:30:05  <briian>fair enough
15:30:28  <briian>the data would be validated before shelling out
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15:31:31  <][_R_][>vish93: specify the full path to the command
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15:31:43  <][_R_][>Specifically the one into the module directory
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15:32:13  <][_R_][>Or create a differently named symlink
15:32:32  <vish93>Thanks ][_R_][ :)
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15:33:29  <grr12314>which two modules have same-named binaries? might warrant a bug report
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15:36:24  <vish93>The tinypng modules
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15:37:31  <joepie91>briian: do make sure to use execFile or spawn, not exec
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15:37:45  <joepie91>(execFile and spawn are not vulnerable to shell injection attacks)
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15:39:06  <briian>joepie91: thanks
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15:45:55  <cdunklau>briian: just don't use a shell and you'll be fine
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15:46:41  <briian>cdunklau: what do you mean
15:46:45  <cdunklau>briian: (exec uses a shell)
15:46:48  <briian>oh
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15:48:15  <briian>do most people use express with nodejs apps?
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15:48:34  <cdunklau>i've never heard of any other framework
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15:48:51  <cdunklau>not that i'm all that well-versed in the ecosystem
15:49:11  <briian>express is just used for creating the back end right?
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15:49:59  <cdunklau>briian: it's a server side web framework, yes
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15:50:31  <briian>interesting
15:50:33  <briian>i am interested now
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15:55:23  <joepie91>!getting started @ briian
15:55:23  <ecmabot>briian: A guide to getting started with JavaScript and Node.js: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/95ed77b71790442b7e61
15:55:25  <joepie91>you may find this useful
15:55:28  <joepie91>(it has an express section too)
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15:55:56  <briian>thanks
15:56:03  <briian>joepie91: do i need to click all the links or can i jsut read the text?
15:56:05  <briian>for a high level overview
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15:58:58  <briian>i guess i have a bit
15:58:59  <briian>ill click some
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16:03:30  <vulpix1337>Can anyone point me to some good packages/references for form input sanitization against sql or any other common injection?
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16:09:58  <joepie91>briian: it's a buffet :) click what looks relevant/interesting, though in the case of Express I recommend going through that section from start to end
16:10:25  <joepie91>you're definitely not expected to read everything that's linked in the entire gist
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16:11:17  <joepie91>vulpix1337: that's the wrong approach entirely; you shouldn't "sanitize" input, rather you should 1) make attack classes impossible (eg. by using parameterized queries for SQL) and, where necessary, 2) escape *output* (eg. against XSS, but most templaters do this by default)
16:11:29  <tharkun>Good $DAY. I am shoping for a nice, easy to use orm that can handle sql and db migration be a breezy in case it is needed and if there is something out there that has a nice to have feature that I currently don't imagine please feel free to recommend it.
16:11:35  <joepie91>vulpix1337: this is separate from input *validation*, eg. confirming that an e-mail address has a valid format for an e-mail address
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16:11:44  <DeltaHeavy>tharkun `knex` isn't an ORM but may be what you're looking for.
16:11:49  <DeltaHeavy>At least partially
16:11:58  <DeltaHeavy>Objection.js is an ORM built on top of knex
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16:12:38  <joepie91>vulpix1337: if you're passing values for queries into the database library separately from the query itself, then you are (usually) using parameterized queries, and SQLi isn't a thing that can happen; SQL injection is specifically a problem with string-concenating values to pieces of a query
16:12:52  <joepie91>(and things that work out to string concatenation, like eg. string interpolation)
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16:13:33  <joepie91>vulpix1337: similarly, if you invoke some other binary/process and want to avoid shell injection, you do that by... not involving a shell, by using execFile or spawn instead of exec
16:14:03  <tharkun>DeltaHeavy: Thanks for those two. I had found sequelize and waterline I am researching your suggestions now.
16:14:15  <DeltaHeavy>npz
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16:15:25  <joepie91>vulpix1337: so the underlying rationale here... say that you have eg. an apostrophe in somebody's name -- that isn't "invalid data", because an apostrophe is in and of itself totally valid in a name... the only situation where that is a problem, is if the name is interpreted as part of an SQL query
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16:16:17  <joepie91>vulpix1337: the key point here is: things like apostrophes, stuff that looks like HTML tags, etc. are *valid data* in and of themselves, and should be stored exactly as supplied by the user; only when they are used in a context where that 'special data' has a meaning different from its literal meaning, do you need to do anything with it (which is why you escape output, not input)
16:16:31  <joepie91>especially since the same data may be used in different contexts, where different things have special meaning
16:16:46  <joepie91><strong>foo</strong> has a special meaning in HTML, but not in JSON
16:17:22  <joepie91>so you escape the < and > if you're displaying that value in a HTML context, but not in a JSON context; which means you can't do anything to the value on *input*, because you don't yet know how it's going to be used in the future
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16:17:58  <joepie91>and any such output escaping should be fully automatic whenever possible, not manual -- so you use a HTML templater (which escapes this by default for interpolated values), and a JSON stringifier (which also escapes special JSON characters by default)
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16:18:04  <joepie91>that way you can't forget to handle it
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16:22:33  <joepie91>(does that make sense?)
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16:41:20  <sxa>Can someone remove the nodeirc.info reference from the topic since it's no longer what it presumably used to be (PR has gone in to remove it from the github README.md)...
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16:43:28  * ljharbtopic: Can't talk? Get registered on freenode ( https://git.io/vaTS2 ) | Latest: v11.3.0 (LTS: Dubnium v10.14.0, Carbon v8.14.0, Boron v6.15.0; EOL: Argon v4.9.1, v9, v7, <= v5) | Mission Statement: http://bit.ly/node-irc-mission-statement | Logs: http://logs.nodejs.org/node.js/index | On codes of conduct: http://j.mp/1RFlyvr http://blog.izs.me/post/30036893703/polic
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16:47:06  <Mia>joepie91, I've been trying to find insformation about package.json browser field and more importantly, how I can make use of it. Would you mind giving me a good starting point to start learning
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16:48:21  <joepie91>Mia: I linked you to the spec
16:48:32  <joepie91>that describes all the behaviour
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16:49:04  <Mia>I checked that, but, normally I build my app.js and run it like node app.js, I never made use of any fields in package.json so far (I believe)
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16:49:24  <Mia>So I believe maybe I have to start from basics about that
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16:49:53  <Mia>I shortly don't know how to make use of that field
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16:50:04  <ljharb>Mia: that field is only for bundlers
16:50:11  <ljharb>Mia: you don’t use it directly
16:50:18  <Mia>when I do browserify script.js -o bundle.js, it just makes what's it's told
16:50:46  <ljharb>browserify checks the browser field in things you require - not in your own project.
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16:53:59  <Mia>ljharb, so normally do I start my app as I described before?
16:54:08  <Mia>because the electron route was a bit different (npm start)
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17:54:30  <Mia>Getting an error with browserify --
17:54:32  <Mia>ParseError: 'import' and 'export' may appear only with 'sourceType: module'
17:54:54  <Mia>cc joepie91
17:55:23  <GreenJello>Mia, browserify doesn't support import/export itself (unless that's changed recently)
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17:55:33  <GreenJello>but that looks like a babel error
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17:57:10  <Mia>Hm, other bundling tools work with my code though
17:57:17  <Mia>so this is a browserify-specific case I believe
17:57:22  <Mia> okay, I'll go try webpack
17:57:40  <GreenJello>yeah, browserify is intentionally very minimal, and not adding support for newer things
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17:57:57  <Mia>okay ~
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18:00:10  <joepie91>Mia: relevant thread: https://github.com/browserify/browserify/issues/1186
18:00:57  <Mia>oh thanks, joepie91, I found this but since it started at 2015 didn't realize it had had posts
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18:01:25  <joepie91>Mia: but in the end it pretty much works out to "esm isn't done yet, and the semantics are unclear because Node doesn't do it yet, so therefore browserify doesn't support it yet either"
18:01:39  <Mia>okay, I see
18:02:01  <Mia>since I can't change the working libraries atm, I'll try the webpack alternative even though it may be overkill for me
18:02:09  <joepie91>Mia: there are a few workarounds in that thread
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18:02:23  <joepie91>though really, deps shouldn't be publishing ESM code...
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18:12:10  <ljharb>^ this
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18:12:44  <briian>what are you thissing
18:12:47  <briian>theres 10 joins and leaves
18:13:11  <briian>i wonder if theres a way to hide joins and leaves after a certain amount of time
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18:14:05  <franckapik>Hello World !
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18:14:15  <franckapik>(first time this joke ?)
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18:15:30  <franckapik>hum.. i would like some precision about one thing... I have a website, with nodejs, express and vue.js. I would like to "replace" some part with vue.js with React.
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18:16:08  <franckapik>The thing is if i use npm install react.. I should require it on client side... This is impossible without other package, isn't it ?
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18:16:36  <joepie91>franckapik: that's what you'd use a bundler for
18:16:41  <franckapik>Or i should insert some js link ? Which is more simple....
18:16:56  <joepie91>franckapik: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/3381ce7f92dec7a1e622538980c0c43d#bundlers
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18:18:18  <ljharb>briian: my client collapses joins and leaves, so i'm thissing the last actual message
18:20:15  <nullbytes>I am trying to set up WebSocket over SSL using ws and Let's Encrypt. It says: Error in connection establishment: net::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID. Could I be using the wrong certificate files in require('https').createServer(...)?
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18:25:43  <franckapik>thank you joepie91, now it's clear
18:25:45  <franckapik>:)
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18:26:29  <joepie91>nullbytes: not a direct answer to your question, but you can save yourself a lot of headaches by outsourcing the TLS handling to something like Caddy or nginx in front of your Node app :)
18:26:41  <GreenJello>^
18:26:45  <joepie91>(Caddy has LE built-in, nginx works with certbot)
18:26:55  <briian>ljharb: ah
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18:36:19  <nullbytes>I have a dh.pem, cert.pem, chain.pem, fullchain.pem and privkey.pem. What are the correct parameters to use in require('https').createServer(...)?
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18:39:52  <briian>nullbytes: seems like you should put all of them in an options object and then pass it as the first argument in createServer
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18:40:20  <briian>https.createServer options takes them from 3 places, as linked here https://nodejs.org/api/https.html#https_https_createserver_options_requestlistener
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18:47:17  <nullbytes>I tried many variations but there's always the error ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID
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18:48:54  <ljharb>update your os’s ssl certs
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19:56:59  <merpnderp>Looks like Golang falls down on http routing. What's the best way to compile node?
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19:57:47  <shush>I need to dig deep into how node should be installed on a mac. Is there an outline for how node and npm should be installed on mac?
19:57:49  <joepie91>merpnderp: what do you mean?
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19:58:45  <merpnderp>joepie91: I'm not happy with Go's http routing options and am throwing a hail marry that compiling node will be a viable option for us instead of moving to Go.
19:59:03  <joepie91>merpnderp: but what do you mean with 'compiling', exactly?
19:59:11  <joepie91>like, what's your end goal here?
19:59:20  <merpnderp>joepie91: To have an executable for deployments.
19:59:40  <joepie91>merpnderp: to what end? just to not have to separately install a Node.js runtime?
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19:59:52  <merpnderp>A lesser but okayish goal would be a simple bundle that contained all the required modules.
20:00:13  <merpnderp>It's more about needing to install/deploy all the deps to prod.
20:00:37  <ljharb>shush: http://nvm.sh
20:00:49  <ljharb>shush: that's how. sorry you had trouble yesterday but i can help you get it working
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20:01:03  <joepie91>merpnderp: what's the specific issue with that? there's a bunch of caveats to packaging the runtime/deps, so it's important exactly what tradeoffs you're willing to deal with
20:01:03  <ljharb>shush: (don't use brew; and don't install npm separately - it always and only comes with node)
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20:01:33  <shush>ljharb: No worries. I appreciate your help. I got frustrated towards the end of last night, cause it got late, and I got tired. hehe
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20:02:01  <merpnderp>joepie91: my best bet with sticking with node is to have something comparable to Go. An executable that's an immutable build we can stick somewhere and run.
20:02:39  <merpnderp>ljharb: npm used to advise using npm to update npm
20:02:47  <shush>ljharb: So here's the current state of my life. NPM is broken; `which npm` returns nothing. `which node` -> /usr/local/bin/node
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20:03:05  <shush>I've been using n for version management, but I'm not sure if that's as good of a tool as nvm
20:03:15  <merpnderp>yikes, I'd nuke my global .npm and reinstall
20:03:15  <ljharb>!whichnvm @ shush
20:03:16  <ecmabot>shush: nvm ( http://nvm.sh / #nvm ) lets you change node versions per-user/per-shell. nave ( https://www.npmjs.com/package/nave ) is for per-user/per-SUBshell. n ( https://www.npmjs.com/package/n ) is for a single, global, system-wide node.
20:03:22  <ljharb>shush: when npm is broken you def have to reinstall node
20:03:31  <joepie91>merpnderp: yes, I get that, but it's not clear to me what problems you're trying to avoid / what tradeoffs you're willing to make... Node *doesn't* work like Go, so an exactly identical thing isn't going to happen, which means I need to understand exactly what your underlying goals are to be able to give a good recommendation
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20:03:43  <joepie91>"like Go" isn't actionable information to me in that context
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20:04:28  <merpnderp>sure it is. What are my options for creating a binary exe of my node app. Surely I can turn it into bytecode or something for V8.
20:04:42  <merpnderp>And maybe there's something that bundles the V8 runtime with the exe
20:04:49  <shush>ljharb: I don't always deal with the terminology on a day to day basis, so when "shell" vs "subshell" is said, what is meant exactly?
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20:06:19  <joepie91>merpnderp: like, if you can't respond to my requests for elaboration, then I can't help you
20:06:44  <merpnderp>joepie91: google apparently can: https://www.npmjs.com/package/nexe
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20:07:09  <joepie91>shrug, I'll just leave you to run into the caveats on your own then
20:07:25  <merpnderp>I'm not sure exactly how I can elaborate. I need all the required modules bundles into a build. Then I need them compiled into an executable.
20:08:17  <joepie91>merpnderp: this is an XY problem
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20:08:28  <joepie91>your goal isn't "an executable", your goal is something for which you believe the solution is "an executable"
20:08:34  <joepie91>the "something" is what I am asking about
20:08:52  <joepie91>what problem(s) do you hope to avoid, *exactly and in full*, by packaging everything into a single executable
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20:09:14  <merpnderp>joepie91: my goal is to find a solution that will help convince my boss to stick with Node. And one of his favorite things about Go is you can compile your entire apps and deps into a single exe.
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20:09:43  <joepie91>then pass the above question on to him, because "compiles into a single exe" is not a technically relevant goal to have
20:09:55  <joepie91>and it doesn't provide enough information to recommend an approach
20:10:17  <joepie91>"a single exe" just isn't an inherently desirable thing to have
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20:10:23  <merpnderp>You may not think so, but it ceratinly simplifies deployment, quick stashing of versions
20:10:51  <joepie91>merpnderp: okay so these kind of things are what I was asking for
20:10:58  <merpnderp>If someone is going into production and editing single files in the app, they're likely doing it wrong.
20:11:09  <merpnderp>Having an immutable build is desirable.
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20:11:38  <joepie91>and what are you trying to prevent through an 'immutable build' (which compiled binaries aren't, btw), exactly?
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20:11:44  <joepie91>what scenarios*
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20:13:16  <merpnderp>look man, there's no going back and forth with my boss on this. I'm not going to tease out exactly what he means.
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20:13:33  <joepie91>then I cannot give you any good advice
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20:13:48  <merpnderp>He likes that his Go services so far are a 2MB exe he can easily copy out to a server and run.
20:13:56  <joepie91>like, if your premise is "I'm not going to try and understand the technical requirements", you should expect to end up with a poor solution
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20:14:24  <merpnderp>My technical requirement is to be as Go-like as possible so that I don't have to write Go.
20:14:36  <joepie91>that is not a 'technical requirement'
20:14:42  <merpnderp>So far reading about http routers has confirmed that Go has some extremely rough edges.
20:14:44  <joepie91>that is a desire
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20:15:04  <emilsp>hey, so does `setInterval` follow wall clock or a monotonic clock ? If I set my interval to 1h, suspend my machine, wait an hour and wake up the machine, will the callback fire immediately or after an hour ?
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20:15:31  <emilsp>The docs on this are vague.
20:15:44  <merpnderp>But looking at nexe, my executables with include a 40MB runtime of node, plus whatever 50MB of app gets compiled into.
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20:19:40  <merpnderp>emilsp: seems like there is only a single correct implementation which is wall clock.
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20:20:16  <merpnderp>This must be how it is implemented because the timers have to take into account that they might not get checked within the clamped range because of the single threaded nature of node.
20:20:25  <merpnderp>But simple enough to test.
20:21:12  <merpnderp>I'm not saying this is how it is, just how could it be otherwise?
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20:22:58  <emilsp>merpnderp: it's just that a machine that's often suspended has a callback at an inerval of 24 hours. Even though the machine is started basically every day, the callback seemingly doesn't fire. I just wanted to check the behaviour, but I could also read some code :) Another option would be that the callback has no effect because it might be executed too soon in the wakeup, and since it relies on the network,
20:23:00  <emilsp>it'd just fail.
20:23:06  <shush>ljharb: My concern is that n is not working properly (which is what I'm currently using).
20:23:31  <letterh>npm install react-navigation installs rn 2.x while npm install [email protected] installs rn 3.x, I wonder why
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20:24:05  <joepie91>emilsp: https://readable-email.org/list/whatwg/topic/timeouts-and-monotonic-vs-clock-time
20:24:05  <merpnderp>letterh: lol sounds like react router's fun period.
20:24:49  <letterh>merpnderp: what do you mean :/, isn't @latest default npm behavior ?
20:25:16  <letterh>I know react routing has bad rep
20:25:47  <letterh>react-navigation website says 3.x is sable, 2.x is past... I wonder why would npm install a past lib :/
20:25:53  <merpnderp>letterh: sorry, can't help you here. Just remember react router having issues with 3 being out but 2 still being recommended or something.
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20:26:55  <letterh>merpnderp: Ok, just so you know, the lib I am talking about is not react router but react-navigation... ( for reactnative )
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20:27:51  <shush>ls -al `which node` --> -rwxr-xr-x 1 holmes admin 35805792 Dec 12 11:35 /usr/local/bin/node
20:27:55  <shush>That doesn't seem right
20:28:04  <shush>Shouldn't node be a symlink?
20:28:16  <mazula>Hi, a reverse proxy can be a load balancing?
20:28:36  <shush>I'm using n, so I'd assume n would have a bunch of node versions in a directory of it's own somewhere, and then it would symlink the version being used.
20:28:58  <letterh>Oh, I already know what happened... react-navigation author hasn't upgraded their npm-hosted version to 3x
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20:29:05  <letterh>thanks for the patience!
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20:48:04  <emilsp>joepie91: thanks, that's a handy link
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20:49:59  <ljharb>shush: i'd suggest using nvm over n, but i'm biased
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20:59:48  <shush>ljharb: I'm giving nvm a shot
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21:00:19  <ljharb>awesome
21:00:29  <ljharb>it'll probably help to remove your system node first
21:00:32  <ljharb>(but it's not required)
21:02:51  <mazula>Hi, a reverse proxy can be a load balancing?
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21:03:05  <shush>ljharb: how do I remove my system node first?
21:03:14  <shush>I already installed nvm also
21:03:29  <shush>Should I still remove the system node?
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21:03:38  <shush>I'd like to remove all node to be honest and then just use nvm
21:03:49  <shush>by all node I include n
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21:15:26  <shush>ljharb: Holy guacamole! I installed node using nvm, and npm is back, not only that...npm install works too! `cat @sentry/node/package.json
21:15:27  <ljharb>agreed
21:15:30  <ljharb>yay
21:15:41  <shush>package.json for @sentry/node contains main
21:15:41  <ljharb>so as for your system node, you have to remove it the same way you installed it
21:16:09  <shush>ljharb: It's been ages since then, so I can't remember how I had it installed
21:16:20  <shush>I was under the impression that I had node installed via n
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21:16:47  <ljharb>you can also do it manually if you need to
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21:18:19  <shush>ljharb: Doesn't system node and npm just get put in /usr/local/bin ?
21:18:31  <shush>Idk where global node_modules are though
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21:18:55  <ljharb>`npm root -g` tells you that. you may need to `nvm deactivate` first
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21:21:59  <mekhami>is this the right place to ask about webpack stuff?
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21:23:03  <mekhami>i'm trying to get webpack-dev-server proxy to work inside docker containers
21:23:54  <mekhami>i have a js app container and a backend api container, and i need to proxy everything unknown to the backend api, but i got ECONNREFUSED if i proxy to like localhost:8000
21:24:21  <mekhami>(which is weird, cause localhost:8000 works from the browser, so i assume it has to be a url that's known to the dev server, which would be <imagename>:<port>
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21:32:33  <emilsp>joepie91: I can confirm that when a machine is suspended, `setInterval` is not being advanced.
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21:33:02  <emilsp>at least on nodejs 4.8.2
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21:34:44  <GreenJello>emilsp, worth trying on a more recent node.js version, but I would expect it to trigger once on resume
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21:35:27  <emilsp>GreenJello: this is what debian uses, but sure. And I can confirm that it doesn't fire once after resume.
21:35:43  <ljharb>emilsp: don't use setinterval thoh
21:35:54  <emilsp>Is there any way I can get a recent version of node on debian?
21:36:05  <emilsp>ljharb: what would you suggest ? :)
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21:36:50  <ljharb>recursive setTimeout
21:36:52  <ljharb>!setintervcal @ emilsp
21:37:05  <ljharb>emilsp: and the way to get node is to build it yourself, or use something like http://nvm.sh
21:37:08  <ljharb>(don't use apt)
21:37:27  <darkSeid>"recursive setTimeout" - wut
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21:38:23  <ljharb>!setinterval @ emilsp
21:38:23  <ecmabot>emilsp: Avoid setInterval; use setTimeout instead. https://web.archive.org/web/20160602165800/https://zetafleet.com/blog/2010/04/why-i-consider-setinterval-to-be-harmful.html (requestAnimationFrame may be another alternative, see !raf)
21:38:25  <ljharb>oops, that ^
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21:39:42  <darkSeid>"Let’s say you are polling a remote server for any new data on a fixed interval using AJAX." - oooooh thats me
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21:39:55  <emilsp>yeah, that interval being 24 hours
21:40:18  <ljharb>a long interval risk the problem getting worse
21:40:24  <ljharb>especially if you're suspending a vm :-p
21:41:40  <darkSeid>for me it's 1s, not quite 24hr lol
21:41:58  <darkSeid>*1m
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21:45:27  <emilsp>ljharb: how does that make it worse?
21:46:07  <ljharb>emilsp: actually yeah i guess a longer interval might make it better, or no change
21:46:16  <ljharb>emilsp: it's just bad overall :-p
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21:47:10  <shush>ljharb: `npm root -g` wont work if I deactivate nvm because npm is not found
21:47:15  <emilsp>ljharb: I don't quite follow exactly why it's bad aside from if the callback throws, the interval isn't stopped. I don't believe this is inherently bad as much as it's a behaviour that I'd expect to be documented.
21:47:28  <ljharb>shush: ah, fair
21:47:35  <ljharb>emilsp: it's also that they bunch up
21:47:47  <ljharb>emilsp: mainly tho if the callback takes longer than the interval
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21:48:00  <ljharb>emilsp: but either way, the semantic everybody actually always wants isn't setinterval, it's recursive settimeout
21:48:07  <darkSeid>if its a 24hour interval, thats one hell of a callback
21:48:10  <ljharb>lol true
21:48:29  <ljharb>emilsp: ie, they want "run my task every n ms" and not "run my task once for every n ms that passes"
21:48:35  <shush>ljharb: So there probably is a node_modules folder sitting around left over from the npm system install that once was
21:48:38  <emilsp>the callback would timeout and return in my case, I don't believe I get affected by the downsides of setInterval in my case, but I understand that it might not be ideal in some cases when a naive approach would be to use setInterval
21:48:47  <emilsp>however, that is not the thing I'm asking about here :)
21:48:49  <ljharb>shush: probably. is there any other global module you can recall?
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21:49:02  <shush>nodemon
21:49:14  <emilsp>and setTimeout also doesn't necessarily fire an event after a wakeup that was too long.
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21:49:50  <emilsp>so the behaviour I'm having issue with doesn't get resolved by switching from setInterval to setTimeout
21:50:08  <shush>/usr/local/lib/node_modules is where they're at
21:50:20  <ljharb>emilsp: fair
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21:50:35  <ljharb>emilsp: so what's on a 24 hour interval that needs to run in-memory, instead of via cron?
21:50:42  <ljharb>shush: cool, you can kill that folder
21:51:34  <emilsp>ljharb: the fact that I wouldn't want a user facing applicaton that is targetting multiple platorms, some of which might not have cron or have cron be easily installable or ran to rely on cron ?
21:51:40  <shush>nvm manages a global node_module dir for each node version?
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21:51:55  <emilsp>I was under the impression that node's community was against victim blaming
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21:52:03  <ljharb>emilsp: no no, i mean you can run something cronlike with node
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21:52:12  <ljharb>emma: lol this isn't victim blaming, i'm trying to find the best solution for you
21:52:18  <ljharb>shush: correct, as it should
21:52:37  <ljharb>shush: `nvm install 10 --reinstall-packages-from=11`, for example, also `nvm reinstall-packages 9` etc
21:52:42  <ljharb>shush: so you don't have to do it manually
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21:53:09  <darkSeid>just giving emma a random ping there lol
21:53:13  <shush>ljharb: will that reinstall the package at the same version number?
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21:53:26  <ljharb>darkSeid: oh lol oops
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21:54:13  <ljharb>shush: yes
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21:55:13  <darkSeid>emilsp I was under the impression that node's community was against victim blaming - what happened?
21:55:33  <ljharb>darkSeid: they quit
21:55:56  <darkSeid>no i meann, what happened that made them say that. i didn't see anyone being rude to them
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21:56:15  <ljharb>darkSeid: i think just a misunderstanding of my question
21:56:32  <darkSeid>ah
21:56:33  <shush>ljharb: does each version of npm use the same cache?
21:56:35  <darkSeid>lol
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21:56:39  <ljharb>shush: yes
21:56:43  * slajaxquit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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21:57:13  <shush>"Unhandled rejection Error: EACCES: permission denied, mkdir '/Users/holmes/.npm/_cacache/index-v5/a1/f6'"
21:57:27  <ljharb>shush: your user should fully own ~/.npm tho
21:57:36  <ljharb>shush: so you could delete that folder and let npm recreate it
21:58:00  <shush>I get this error when running `npm install` on my project. Looks like a1 and another dir called 02 is owned by root
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21:59:41  <shush>ljharb: is there a command I can run to search for files/dirs owned by root in ~/.npm ?
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21:59:59  <ljharb>shush: i'd just run `chown` and `chmod` with `-r` and `sudo` on that dir
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22:00:52  <darkSeid>i have 1 day to implement a POC for my boss/es to show them the value of tests. I want to try and implement e2e testing into our CI pipeline which should be really easy, just include them in the pipeline.yml file lol. I'm probably gonna go with cypress for this, but are there any other options I should be aware of? I really, really dont/can't fuck this up
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22:05:13  <GreenJello>darkSeid, I'd look over the github issues for cypress to see if there are some serious issues that aren't fixed
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22:05:40  <darkSeid>923 issues
22:06:02  <GreenJello>it seems like a large project and it's somewhat new, which is a combination prone to blocking issues
22:06:10  <GreenJello>darkSeid, actually read the issues
22:06:27  <darkSeid>yeah im reading the most commented ones
22:06:35  <darkSeid>im not just looking at how many there are lol
22:06:54  <ljharb>darkSeid: e2e isn't the lowest hanging fruit
22:06:57  <ljharb>darkSeid: unit tests are
22:07:10  <darkSeid>weeeeell
22:07:22  <darkSeid>you mean in terms of, how easy to set up?
22:07:28  <cdunklau>ljharb: depends on how well the code is structured :)
22:07:28  <GreenJello>unit tests are bananas; they only have value if you have tons of them
22:07:42  <ljharb>disagree
22:07:52  <darkSeid>e2e with smth like cypress can be demo'd and look cool, which is valuable for trying to convince managers to give me more time
22:07:53  <ljharb>darkSeid: how easy to set up, but also how quickly you'll find bugs
22:08:01  <ljharb>e2e def makes a better demo.
22:08:02  <darkSeid>hrm
22:08:09  <GreenJello>about the analogy or the economics of bananas?
22:08:12  <ljharb>but "1 day" isn't a reasonable amount of time
22:08:13  <darkSeid>i always assumed unit tests were the least valuable
22:08:22  <GreenJello>(kidding)
22:08:23  <darkSeid>not that they aren't valuable, but i'd rather have e2e or integration
22:08:29  <ljharb>i wouldn't
22:08:37  <ljharb>GreenJello: the analogy, unless you're talking the fruit in which case 1 banana def has value
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22:09:13  <darkSeid>ljharb the issue with unit tests is how easy it is to fuck them up
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22:09:39  <ljharb>darkSeid: i don't see that happening in practice
22:09:43  <darkSeid>im not saying this like i think im some master of testing, I'd probably screw it up. I'd find it easier to write e2e tests
22:09:54  <darkSeid>ljharb lol that's because you work with really good engineers
22:10:20  <darkSeid>you don't see people adding in tests that are kind of pointless/brittle?
22:10:45  <darkSeid>with an e2e you basically just have to use the thing
22:11:24  <darkSeid>unit testing, especially a react/redux app, requires quite a lot of technical know-how to do right
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22:11:46  <darkSeid>not *especially* a react/redux app, im just saying that adds complexity
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22:17:47  <ljharb>darkSeid: pointless tests don't cause much harm tho
22:17:54  <ljharb>darkSeid: if they're flaky, fix or delete or disable them
22:18:13  <ljharb>for e2e tho, you get the broad strokes easily but often miss all the edge cases
22:18:44  <darkSeid>true
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22:19:29  * DLSteveloves watching applications explode when he implements fuzz testing.
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22:20:36  <ljharb>DLSteve: only problem with fuzz testing is that it only works well if every single failure input is preserved for every future run
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22:21:20  <DLSteve>@ljharb, I usually do fuzz testing as part of Unit Testing.
22:21:42  <ljharb>sure. but what happens to the failure inputs when it fails?
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22:22:59  <DLSteve>Oh I see what you are saying. I guess you could have an ever growing "bad" input repository.
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22:24:02  <darkSeid>ljharb regardless of which fruit hangs the lowest, if you could only have either unit tests _or_ e2e tests for your application, which one would you choose?
22:24:07  <DLSteve>I often target "known" bad input and expand on that with other random input.
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22:24:33  <darkSeid>it's like a terrible pub quiz question
22:24:55  <DLSteve>I do "user" testing. Just deploy it to prod and wait for support tickets to come in :P
22:24:58  <darkSeid>DLSteve never heard of fuzzy testing until now
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22:26:29  <DLSteve>I just often hit a wall with unit tests when it comes to database IO.
22:26:44  <ljharb>darkSeid: personally, unit
22:27:21  <ljharb>DLSteve: the thing with fuzz testing tho is that if you aren't looking at every failed test log, you might get a failure input once, and *never again*, and the bug will persist.
22:27:42  <darkSeid>hmm, that's interesting. i would have thought that good e2e testing basically has you covered for everything
22:28:05  <ljharb>darkSeid: i think it's way harder to get full coverage with e2e. it's just easier to get partial coverage.
22:28:08  <DLSteve>If a fuzz test fails then someone should be looking at the input. Thats kind of the point imo.
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22:32:34  <cdunklau>ljharb: do you know about quickcheck
22:32:34  <cdunklau>(the haskell thing)
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22:32:34  <cdunklau>or hypothesis, the python thing? "Property-based Testing" is the buzzword
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22:36:38  <shush>Is nvm appropriate for production?
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22:37:37  <cdunklau>looks like http://www.jscheck.org/ is a thing, neat
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22:38:54  <ljharb>cdunklau: yes, i do, and i tried jscheck, and stopped using it because of what i mentioned
22:39:09  <ljharb>ie, there's no easy way to ensure *every* failed input is preserved, and provided on every future test
22:39:16  <ljharb>shush: sure, altho typically it's not needed tehre
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22:39:35  <GreenJello>shush, for many projects, yes. If you need to eliminate nodejs.org from the possible sources of a deployment failure, then you'll want to keep node binaries yourself
22:39:37  <shush>ljharb: typically one would use something like docker to run in production?
22:39:48  <ljharb>DLSteve: right but humans don't look at failure output all the time. on something unpredictable like fuzz testing, they'll likely just click rerun, and it could pass
22:39:51  <nullbytes>I'm using ws in nodejs with Lets Encrypt but I'm not sure which files to use as options for require('https').createServer(...). I tried several variations but I always get the error ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID
22:39:51  <ljharb>shush: that's one common thing
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22:40:06  <shush>I haven't even sunk my teeth into docker
22:40:06  <cdunklau>ljharb: hmm i think hypothesis does that
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22:40:14  <ljharb>not familiar withh it
22:40:20  <nullbytes>I'm using ws in nodejs with Lets Encrypt but I'm not sure which files to use as options for require('https').createServer(...). I tried several variations but I always get the error ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID.
22:40:21  <cdunklau>ljharb: it's a python thing
22:40:29  <shush>Why not use docker for local development too I wonder?
22:40:30  <cdunklau>ljharb: does jscheck not save stuff?
22:40:36  <ljharb>cdunklau: it does not
22:40:40  <ljharb>cdunklau: but also, CI runs don't save stuff
22:40:49  <ljharb>cdunklau: so you'd need some kind of persistent storage to copy failures to
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22:41:30  <GreenJello>shush, running databases in docker is good for local development, but you get issues with file watchers and have to deal with volumes which have permission weirdness... docker just doesn't work very well for node.js development
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22:42:15  <im3very1>nullbytes: put nginx in front of it or something
22:42:26  <im3very1>easier to configure ssl in nginx
22:42:31  <im3very1>then proxy_pass
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22:43:45  <GreenJello>shush, I worded that poorly... docker for databases: good, docker for node.js application code: not so good
22:44:03  <nullbytes>im3very1: But why doesn't ws work? It has parameters for the SSL certificate.
22:44:19  <shush>GreenJello: I see. I have a global install of MySQL which is bad.
22:44:20  <cdunklau>ljharb: it looks like hypothesis does store things, but in a "database" that should be treated as a cache, not a persistant thing
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22:44:39  <im3very1>nullbytes: are you using a chain cert or a single cert?
22:44:42  <GreenJello>shush, yeah, I very much wouldn't recommend global installs of DBs
22:45:20  <Aeacus>how would you recommend localizing it, focker?
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22:45:34  <Aeacus>that sounded more intense than intended, *docker
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22:45:38  <cdunklau>but you can persist specific examples with a decorator. it also supports checking parts into VCS
22:45:43  <cdunklau>i wonder if there's a similar thing for JS
22:45:45  <GreenJello>docker or vagrant
22:45:50  <im3very1>nullbytes: https://radiostud.io/configuring-nginx-reverse-proxy-node-js-application/ is a good guide for nginx + node
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22:46:51  <im3very1>then node just listens on any port (e.g. 3333) and nginx handles the request/response for the client
22:47:22  <nullbytes>im3very1: I have the files cert.pem, chain.pem, dh.pem, fullchain.pem and privkey.pem but I don't know which ones to use.
22:47:56  <ThePendulum>GreenJello: I was thinking about the purpose of docker a while ago and separate database installs was one of the few things I came up with, heh
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22:48:20  <im3very1>nullbytes: use privkey.pem as 'key' and the fullchain.pem as 'cert'
22:48:32  <im3very1>otherwise try cert.pem as 'cert'
22:49:03  <im3very1>nullbytes: you're using fs or something to read the cert/key files yeah?
22:49:22  <nullbytes>im3very1: The ones from /etc/letsencrypt/live/mysite.com/ or /etc/letsencrypt/archive/mysite.com?
22:49:35  <im3very1>from /etc/letsencrypt/live/mysite.com/
22:49:48  <nullbytes>I'm using fs
22:50:17  <im3very1>does the node user have permission to read the key files?
22:51:36  <shush>ljharb: How do I install all modules in my system'sd global node_modules dir before removing it?
22:51:51  <shush>s/system'sd/system's/
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22:52:25  <shush>also s/ljharb:/everyone:
22:52:52  <ljharb>shush: without npm available, you can't do `npm ls -g --depth=0` to get the list
22:52:56  <nullbytes>im3very1: Yes I tried making them 777 but it didn't help. I already suggested using nginx but nodejs is preferred for now if it's possible.
22:53:01  <ljharb>shush: so for you, you'll have to manually `npm install -g` each one
22:53:39  <shush>ljharb: Should I worry about the package versions for each one?
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22:56:20  <im3very1>nullbytes: you've tried rebooting? :-P lol
22:56:22  <im3very1>I'm out of ideas
22:56:46  <nullbytes>im3very1: https://pastebin.com/eb4GXdsZ
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23:02:10  <im3very1>nullbytes: you're setting up websockets?
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23:02:26  <nullbytes>Yes
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23:05:18  <im3very1>nullbytes: try this https://pastebin.com/bP57F68f
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23:08:54  <nullbytes>WebSocket connection to 'wss://[...]:8443/' failed: Error in connection establishment: net::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID
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23:10:00  <im3very1>nullbytes: can you see the certificate the server is sending back?
23:12:06  <nullbytes>im3very1: I can see the certificate from the lighttpd server but how do I see the certificate from nodejs?
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23:14:13  <im3very1>nullbytes: You could try just doing a process.stdout.write( fs.readFileSync('/etc/letsencrypt/live/[...]/privkey.pem') ) to see what nodejs is using
23:14:39  <im3very1>nullbytes: might be worth specifying the encoding too..just in case
23:14:41  <im3very1>https://pastebin.com/72gJG6Tj
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23:19:44  <nullbytes>im3very1: Thanks for all your help! The problem was the port 8443 that I was using. I switched to 8080 and it's working now!
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23:19:53  <ljharb>shush: i mean, you may not want any of them installed at al, it's better to avoid global installs. otherwise yeah, it's good to keep the versions what you expect
23:20:14  <im3very1>nullbytes: lol good show
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