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00:43:46  <DigitalSpeed>what does response.resume(); do? cant seem to find any good documentation on it.
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02:25:26  <crazyhorse18>I'd like to create printable PDFs from html/css.. any suggestions on what to use?
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02:26:29  <crazyhorse18>http://pdfmake.org/index.html#/features << things like this use their own dsl.. but i'm wondering why you would do that if you could just use html/css directly
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02:32:08  <joepie91>crazyhorse18: moment
02:32:36  <crazyhorse18>ok :)
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02:33:07  <joepie91>crazyhorse18: https://github.com/devongovett/node-wkhtmltopdf
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02:33:48  <joepie91>crazyhorse18: requires a separate binary unfortunately
02:34:12  <crazyhorse18>i'm pretty sure i used wkhtml in 2009
02:34:13  <crazyhorse18>obviously not with node
02:34:21  <joepie91>heh
02:34:28  <joepie91>well, there's not many other reasonable ways to do it
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02:34:59  <joepie91>html/css is nontrivial to render
02:35:00  <joepie91>:p
02:35:33  <crazyhorse18>hmmm
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02:36:04  <joepie91>crazyhorse18: fwiw I've tried to solve this problem in Python before
02:36:09  <joepie91>and I couldn't find a single solution that Actually Worked
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02:36:23  <joepie91>without weird caveats, or mysterious failures on some systems, or missing features
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02:37:22  <crazyhorse18>oh right, like the convertor doesn't actually work
02:37:45  <crazyhorse18>basically i need it to be able to print 100's of pages
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02:39:12  <crazyhorse18>what about for generating the html? is there a decent templating library
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02:39:31  <crazyhorse18>I don't normally need to generate HTML as our apps are 100% javascript.. and the html is dynamically generated
02:39:44  <crazyhorse18>https://github.com/wycats/handlebars.js/ << this one looks pretty good
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02:40:57  <joepie91>crazyhorse18: I personally prefer Jade
02:41:10  <joepie91>primarily because it actually understands the document structure
02:41:18  <joepie91>as opposed to most templaters, which basically just concatenate strings together
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02:41:44  <joepie91>(handlebars falls into the latter category, and personally I don't really like working with it, and would rather pick Nunjucks in that category)
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02:43:53  <raj>ljharb, I don't type any password when starting my machine
02:43:58  <raj>ljharb, only for commands
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02:44:16  <raj>but if I switch the TTY then yes I do login
02:45:12  <crazyhorse18>joepie91: checking out jade
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02:55:21  <^v>does node not have .startsWith on strings?
02:55:41  <wycats>crazyhorse18: doit
02:56:11  <Havvy>n> "abc".startsWith("a")
02:56:14  <babelboot>Havvy: (okay) true
02:56:24  <Havvy>^v: https://node.green/
02:56:52  <^v>Havvy, send me a link with a valid https cert ;)
02:57:02  <raj>Anyone familiar with nvm? I followed the install.sh instructions shown here: https://github.com/creationix/nvm but I still get no output from `command -v nvm`
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02:57:17  <Havvy>^v: Oh... http://node.green/
02:57:39  <cooltpt>crazyhorse18: htmldoc? it will convert a URL int a PDF
02:58:46  <^v>Havvy, so basically the answer is that node is a pile of shit?
02:58:47  <^v>thanks
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02:59:09  <cooltpt>crazyhorse18: could use node child_process to call htmldoc
02:59:41  <Havvy>:sigh: Why am I helping people in here again?
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03:05:36  <raj>the judge ordered it
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03:36:56  <crazyhorse18>cooltpt: oh nice ok checking that out again
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04:23:45  <mmmveggies>Havvy: I appreciate you. :D
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04:27:22  <Havvy>Arigatou, mmmveggies. Though I was being half facetious there.
04:27:56  <Havvy>Just everybody I've tried helping the past few days has either ended up cussing out JS or Symbols.
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04:30:54  <mmmveggies>Havvy: at least we don't have to explain JS "classes" a few times each day anymore :D
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04:31:36  <Havvy>True. Now we have to explain the `class` keyword.
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04:34:44  <joepie91>and nonexistent bound methods...
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04:46:42  <evanm2>I have a function in a module which creates a string. I want to use that string to login to my database. I am too thick to figure out how to use a callback to do this. Can anyone help a noob who has been reading documentation and stack overflow for hours? Thank you
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04:50:01  <harryh>evanm2: i dont do a ton of db stuff but i could prob help. whats up
04:50:19  <harryh>evanm2: can you show code?
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04:51:29  <evanm2>Thanks. Should I post to a gist? I am kind of a noob on IRC too.
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04:52:21  <harryh>evanm2: yeah if you could. or if you have a github repo and thatd be easier for you?
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04:53:28  <evanm2><script src="https://gist.github.com/EvanMisshula/5a98dd6285bd63cd94d77a6af44865fa.js"></script>
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04:54:03  <evanm2>That is the config.js that reads a gpg file and returns a password
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04:54:43  <evanm2>I would like to use that password to connect to a postgres database
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04:55:14  <harryh>what is that lol
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04:55:51  <harryh>ah you linked to the raw js
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04:56:50  <evanm2> here is the gist that tries to use the decrypted password https://gist.github.com/EvanMisshula/e92b5c6d1bb42d7ee98bad550d820020.js
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04:58:42  <harryh>evanm2: okay so in this second module is where you need to be able to connect to the postgres db, ya?
04:58:51  <evanm2>I am using emacs inferior *js* to try to debug and cs() returns undefined and then the string right after it.
04:59:03  <evanm2>correct
04:59:07  <harryh>you call the config function, that reads the pgp file, then the callback inside the readFile callback should have the pw
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05:00:05  <evanm2>That's the hope. but I can't return a string. I need to use it as a call back which is where it is all going wrong
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05:01:48  <harryh>evanm2: makes sense since the function in your config module doesnt actually return anything, but we dont actually want it to return anything. i may be looking at this wrong, but i think you could make the config function take a callback as a param so you'd do something like: https://gist.github.com/hedgerh/ad3673929fc15111110dc8f8d55b4106
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05:04:05  <harryh>evanm2: or you could maybe do something like https://gist.github.com/hedgerh/c6e60092daf67ccc3ebdca728518a958#file-config-js-L31
05:04:20  <harryh>the third option is to use promises to return, since it looks like you're using some promises in that callback
05:04:26  <harryh>actually wait that wont work w readFile
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05:04:36  <harryh>er actually, it would
05:06:13  <evanm2>The second one I think I understand. I am going to try passing cb as a parameter and then exiting with cb(connectionString)
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05:06:57  <evanm2>I definitely appreciate a fresh pair of eyes on it. Many thanks no matter how it turns out.
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05:07:21  <harryh>evanm2: with the first example, i took all of the callback out, so if you passed in a callback you'd want the cb to have params (err, encrypted)
05:07:24  <harryh>good luck
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05:35:59  <crazyhorse18>jade is now called pug?
05:36:08  <modernpacifist>crazyhorse18: Yes, for legal reasons
05:36:10  <joepie91>crazyhorse18: oh, yeah, trademark issue
05:36:13  <joepie91>well
05:36:17  <joepie91>frivolous trademark issue
05:36:27  <crazyhorse18>many confuse.. so i install jade and install pug then?
05:36:30  <modernpacifist>Aren't most frivolous
05:36:54  <modernpacifist> Installing pug will get you the latest jade version plus whatever new things they've been working on
05:37:16  <joepie91>just install puig
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05:37:18  <joepie91>:P
05:37:19  <joepie91>pug*
05:37:23  <crazyhorse18>okie dokey
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05:37:31  <modernpacifist>SoI've been experimenting with Sentry for error collection from JS apps - its open-source and you can run it on-premise and it works absolutely beautifully
05:37:39  <joepie91>modernpacifist: link?
05:37:41  <modernpacifist>Except they've hard coded an SMTP mail timeout of 5 seconds somewhere
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05:37:54  <modernpacifist>joepie91: https://getsentry.com/welcome/
05:38:49  <modernpacifist>joepie91: They push their SaaS offering obviously - on-prem doco here: https://docs.getsentry.com/on-premise/server/
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05:39:17  <joepie91>mmm, yeah
05:39:21  <joepie91>not sure I want to make my stack rely on that
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05:40:51  <modernpacifist>I've tossed it into our development environment to see what sort of stuff I can make it collect - but I tried a few things to break it like taking the server away/packet loss/slowing it down and it didn't impact performance on the client
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05:41:54  <modernpacifist>Plus I've got it buried behind cookie auth at the nginx level, so a user has to be authenticated within our app to hit the endpoint
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06:33:48  <modernpacifist>Nope, just turns out Django's SMTP lib thing doesn't work with all SMTP hosts
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06:56:57  <joepie91>modernpacifist: my problem with sentry is mostly that I don't trust it organizationally
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06:57:07  <joepie91>it's very clearly commercial, it's very pushy towards its commercial offerings
06:57:30  <joepie91>unlike with a community project, there's no assurances towards its continued maintenance (of the open-source code) whatsoever
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06:57:59  <joepie91>and it's exceedingly likely that their business goals will, at some point, in some way, come to conflict with that continued maintenance (or at least perceived to do so)
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07:00:13  <pagios>hello, i want to implement captha on registration, what is the best way to do it? server side?
07:00:26  <joepie91>pagios: what are you trying to prevent with the captcha?
07:00:34  <pagios>bots from registering
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07:00:48  <joepie91>pagios: sure, but what's your reason for wanting to prevent that? what reason would somebody have to use a bot to register?
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07:00:59  <pagios>just to flood
07:01:03  <joepie91>flood what, exactly?
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07:01:11  <pagios>the user database
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07:01:30  <joepie91>pagios: why would anybody want to do that?
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07:01:46  <joepie91>what would they stand to gain from it?
07:01:48  <pagios>thats where we get into the weird reasons... just like spam
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07:02:05  <pagios>self satisfaction maybe?
07:02:08  <joepie91>pagios: what would they spam, exactly? and how would they benefit from it?
07:02:15  <joepie91>people don't just randomly generate accounts for no reason
07:02:20  <joepie91>it's not a realistic threat
07:02:26  <joepie91>certainly not a reason to inconvenience legitimate users
07:02:36  <pagios>some ppl like to mess
07:02:42  <joepie91>like, there are cases where you legitimately need a captcha, but it's a specialist tool
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07:02:48  <pagios>it brings satisfaction to them
07:02:48  <joepie91>that's not a reason
07:02:53  <joepie91>it doesn't
07:02:55  <joepie91>the resulting chaos does
07:02:59  <joepie91>there's no chaos from filling up a user DB
07:03:12  <joepie91>it doesn't have any public visibility
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07:04:21  <joepie91>I mean, you're thinking of a targeted attack here, but targeted attacks don't happen unless the attacker earns more from it than it costs them
07:04:22  <joepie91>in some way
07:04:26  <joepie91>I can't see that being the case here
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07:04:58  <joepie91>(I've been involved in a number of sites that could be considered "high risk", so I'
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07:05:06  <joepie91>so I'm very familiar with troublemakers and their reasons)*
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07:06:10  <pagios>so confirming email addresses is enough
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07:06:57  <joepie91>pagios: from what you've described so far, yes
07:07:24  <joepie91>if there's a concrete reason for people to make fake accounts in an automated manner, then you might have to reconsider, but even then the solution isn't necessarily a captcha
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07:07:30  <pagios>joepie91: so on registration generate some random number on db, send an email to that address with that number
07:07:35  <joepie91>captchas only make sense in situations where you need a *lot* of accounts for minimal gain
07:07:43  <joepie91>you can purchase captcha solving services for about $2 per 1000 captchas
07:07:44  <pagios>and ask the user to visit a specifc site to validate
07:07:52  <joepie91>so eg. if you're trying to prevent fake reviews, a captcha will not stop anybody
07:08:11  <joepie91>pagios: pretty much. though you'd want to use the `uuid` module for generating that random 'verification key'
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07:08:21  <SquadGoals>joepie91, nice
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07:08:30  <joepie91>the `uuid` module uses a cryptographically secure random number generator - which, practically speaking, means it's an unpredictable value
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07:08:38  <joepie91>(Math.random, on the other hand, is extremely predictable)
07:08:52  <pagios>math.random is predictable?
07:08:56  <joepie91>and a v4 UUID will have enough characters to be hard enough to guess
07:08:57  <joepie91>absolutely
07:09:04  <joepie91>Math.random isn't meant for generating unpredictable numbers
07:09:11  <joepie91>it's meant for generating numbers that *look* random to a human
07:09:28  <joepie91>pagios: look at eg. https://github.com/XMPPwocky/nodebeefcl
07:09:37  <joepie91>which can reproduce the 'internal state' of Math.random in V8
07:09:39  <joepie91>practically, that means
07:09:46  <joepie91>if you have 2 or 3 outputs from Math.random, you can predict the rest
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07:10:29  <SquadGoals>v8 is the google chrome's thing right?
07:10:34  <SquadGoals>that also nodejs uses
07:10:43  <joepie91>pagios: for things that need to be 'unpredictable' - so, confirmation keys, account recovery keys, API keys, passwords, cryptographical keys, and so on - you ALWAYS want what's called a "CSPRNG" - a cryptographically secure random number generator
07:10:47  <Nouv>SquadGoals: yes
07:10:51  <SquadGoals>cool Nouv
07:11:06  <pagios>interesting
07:11:16  <joepie91>pagios: in Node, that is crypto.randomBytes - but that will just output bytes that you can't put into the URL directly, and it's easy to mess up your random data by trying to convert it to a url-safe format, so using the `uuid` module is easier
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07:11:27  <joepie91>which will do this for you correctly
07:11:35  <joepie91>(you want the v4 UUID, not the others)
07:11:45  <joepie91>note that it's not the `node-uuid` module, which is broken :p
07:11:51  <joepie91>the correct package name on NPM is `uuid`, literally
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07:12:27  <pagios>joepie91: but how can a client reach the internal state of the server without having access to it
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07:12:48  <joepie91>pagios: 'internal state' refers specifically to the random number generation algorithm behind Math.random, here
07:12:52  <pagios>if he is the only one accessing the system at a time you mean
07:12:58  <joepie91>the reason it works, is because the algorithm is predictable
07:13:02  <pagios>if multiple users are using that math.random it will be harder
07:13:03  <joepie91>it's not designed to be unpredictable
07:13:07  <joepie91>not really
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07:13:15  <Nouv>joepie91: Have you used GraphQL?
07:13:16  <joepie91>the thing I linked can work with non-consecutive outputs
07:13:19  <joepie91>ie. unknown values inbetween
07:13:30  <joepie91>it just reconstructs the algorithm and determines the internal values from that
07:13:35  <joepie91>or rather, the possible internal values
07:13:40  <joepie91>until there's only one set of possible values left
07:13:58  <joepie91>pagios: a better name for Math.random would be Math.irregular, really
07:14:07  <joepie91>it doesn't generate random numbers, just numbers that look irregular to the human eye
07:14:08  <SquadGoals>pagios, then u time it right and try it enough times that they do get it right
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07:15:03  <SquadGoals>i mean look at your odds. if you dont have a big userbase you probably wont get that many same calls in say, 5 seconds to your servers
07:15:05  <joepie91>pagios: this goes into more details: https://v8project.blogspot.nl/2015/12/theres-mathrandom-and-then-theres.html
07:15:12  <SquadGoals>meaning you can repeat things and get lucky
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07:16:31  <joepie91>to make the explanation entirely 'correct':
07:16:36  <joepie91>there are three different things
07:16:45  <joepie91>1) irregular, 2) unpredictable, and 3) random
07:16:59  <joepie91>getting truly random values from a computer is essentially impossible
07:17:03  <joepie91>but it's also not something we need
07:17:05  <joepie91>so we can forget about 3
07:17:18  <joepie91>'unpredictable' is what we need for secret keys and such
07:17:23  <joepie91>so that an attacker can't guess the value
07:17:24  * SquadGoalsholds up spork
07:17:25  <joepie91>even if they know the system
07:17:34  <pagios>joepie91: you mean if i know the internal state of your server i can guess what math.random will generate?
07:17:35  <joepie91>if you want 'unpredictable', you use a CSPRNG
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07:18:03  <joepie91>the remaining one is 'irregular', and this is useful in for example games - for example, if I'm drawing stars in space on the screen, then the position of those stars needs to look irregular to a human, not like a pattern
07:18:04  <SquadGoals>no pagios. externally, you can send enough requests to get a guess of Math.Random right
07:18:10  <joepie91>but it doesn't matter if they can predict where the stars are going to be
07:18:16  <joepie91>as long as it doesn't look like a pattern, it's good enough
07:18:18  <SquadGoals>pagios, you just have to feel out the trigger
07:18:29  <joepie91>'irregular' is provided by basically anything that claims to give you random numbers
07:18:52  <joepie91>pagios: the internal state of Math.random*
07:19:00  <joepie91>and you can obtain that without access to the server
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07:19:07  <pagios>you mean say i get 100 requests from that number sequence i can predict what math.random will generate on the next ones?
07:19:10  <joepie91>just by looking at eg. two other confirmation keys you get
07:19:11  <joepie91>yep
07:19:19  <joepie91>far less requests, 2 or 3 is often enough
07:19:27  <joepie91>don't need 100
07:19:28  <pagios>wow
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07:19:40  <SquadGoals>uuid v4 is the best one
07:19:43  <SquadGoals>everything else is crap
07:19:46  <SquadGoals>in nodejs
07:19:52  <joepie91>SquadGoals: not necessarily
07:20:05  <joepie91>but the `uuid` module is known-good
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07:20:13  <SquadGoals>what is better in nodejs jo
07:20:14  <joepie91>that is, the base conversion is designed not to introduce bias (per uuid spec)
07:20:14  <SquadGoals>oe
07:20:17  <SquadGoals>JOEPIE91
07:20:21  <joepie91>and the random source is a CSPRNG
07:20:23  <joepie91>at least in theory
07:20:28  <joepie91>so in that sense, it is known good
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07:20:43  <joepie91>but anything that meets those two criteria - CSPRNG as as random source, not introducing bias in the processing step - can be considered good
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07:21:12  <joepie91>SquadGoals: I'm writing https://git.cryto.net/joepie91/node-random-number-csprng for example
07:21:17  <joepie91>which is secure for relatively small numbers
07:21:31  <joepie91>a workaround for JS' issue with number handling is still in the works however
07:21:37  <joepie91>so you don't want to go above... 27 bits, it was?
07:22:02  <joepie91>(this has to do with all numbers being double-precision floating point in JS)
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07:22:39  <joepie91>there's a lot of annotations in the source code: https://git.cryto.net/joepie91/node-random-number-csprng/src/master/src/index.js
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07:22:44  <joepie91>but the syntax highlighting is a bit wonk
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07:47:35  <modernpacifist>joepie91: Oh sure thats always a possibility, but given the code I'm running on prem now is open and it seems to be quite powerful now then I don't see it as so much of a concern, particularly for something like exception capturing, when there are lots of tools out there that could serve as a replacement
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07:48:10  <modernpacifist>If it were something like the core datastore for our entire application/platform, that would certainly get a lot more attention
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07:51:36  <joepie91>modernpacifist: I'm more concerned about the tooling one would build *on top* of the error capturing stack
07:51:38  <joepie91>which is all quite critical
07:51:55  <joepie91>not generally something you want to suddenly stop being maintained
07:51:57  <joepie91>:)
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07:53:14  <modernpacifist>joepie91: At least by having it on-prem and the current version open source, if they do choose to run away and make it propietary then what I've got deployed now will continue to work
07:53:28  <joepie91>sure
07:53:29  <modernpacifist>Would be far worse if it just stopped, or pay $$ or it stops
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07:53:36  <Nouv>What's happening with Express now? I'm not sure what the conclusion of the conflict was after IBM bought strongloop and the project maintainer left
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07:53:39  <joepie91>but that's still not enough assurance for me :P
07:53:55  <modernpacifist>What would be? Out of curiosity?
07:53:57  * joepie91is picky
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07:55:32  <joepie91>modernpacifist: something being community-maintained for example would be a great benefit, for a number of reasons: 1) it doesn';t suddenly stop because of an arbitrary business decision, rather maintenance will usually slowly get down to a crawl, leaving you time to migrate or adopt, 2) there's less chance of feature creep because there's no business model to justify, meaning there's less to maintain/replicate/look for in an alternative, if it does
07:55:33  <joepie91>go boom, 3) you won't have the situation where the userbase at large is uninterested in maintaining a fork because "well, the proprietary version works well enough for me"
07:55:54  <joepie91>the incentives are just completely different
07:56:01  <joepie91>for both maintainers and users
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07:56:26  <joepie91>I mean, the chance of something going unmaintained is always there, so what I'm most interested in is _how_ it will go unmaintained and what the subsequent impact is
07:56:37  <modernpacifist>joepie91: All fair points
07:56:59  <joepie91>modernpacifist: of course, generally, the 'small dependencies' rule applies
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07:57:09  <joepie91>I don't want a big system that collects, analyzes, manages, etc. my errors
07:57:19  <joepie91>I just want an error reporting/catching component, and a separate tool for working with them
07:57:29  <joepie91>if something goes unmaintained, it's cheap to fork or replace
07:57:43  <joepie91>and is less likely to rely on a proprietary-to-that-project or make assumptions about internals that are hard to replicate
07:57:46  <joepie91>er
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07:57:51  <joepie91>proprietary-to-that-project API *
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07:58:26  <joepie91>basically, assume failure, and make recovery as cheap and fast as possible, with as few (financial/knowledge) dependencies on third parties as possible
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07:58:57  <modernpacifist>Understandable. The piece that does the error collection on the client JS side called Raven which just dumps the error and some context information over HTTP in JSON back to Sentry and Sentry gives you a shiny UI and some graphs + rate limiting
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07:59:31  <modernpacifist>I dare say I'd be able to hook up Raven to my own HTTP endpoint pretty easily and just have that dump into elasticsearch/logstash etc
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08:00:23  <modernpacifist>Or otherwise borrow the error normalisation stuff it does for JS/Obj-C/Android (we're doing all 3), integrate it into our own apps and do our own logging endpoint
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08:00:59  <joepie91>modernpacifist: API looks proprietary-to-Sentry to me
08:01:06  <joepie91>from a glance
08:01:16  <joepie91>rather than being designed as a generic standardized API
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08:03:08  <modernpacifist>joepie91: It's bound to have it's own structures to represent the error, but something like elasticsearch would be able to consume it pretty easily since the error payload itself just gets shipped around as JSON
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08:03:35  <joepie91>modernpacifist: right, but "It's bound to have it's own structures to represent the error" is precisely the problem :)
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08:03:58  <joepie91>it makes assumptions about how Sentry internally represents and processes errors
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08:04:19  <joepie91>they're technically separate components, but neither is expected to be used without the other
08:04:23  <joepie91>and it isn't designed for that purpose
08:04:41  <joepie91>that introduces a lot of subtle gotchas when writing your own thing or even trying to plug in something else
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08:07:08  <modernpacifist>joepie91: Yea I agree with you there - using Raven outside of Sentry would be outside it's design scope and potentially cause other issues
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08:11:55  <modernpacifist>joepie91: Dont think theres much in this payload that wouldn't be re-usable: https://gist.github.com/davefinster/335320be0d5b395377b99e51bb5a1c91
08:12:10  <modernpacifist>Sure a couple of unique sentry. based keys
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08:15:48  <joepie91>modernpacifist: I'm also concerned about future changes :)
08:16:01  <joepie91>the intention and design goals are much more important than the state of it right here, right now
08:16:09  <joepie91>because it sets expectations on future development
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08:16:24  <joepie91>it's probably the only way to kinda sorta predict the future
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08:39:12  <monsti>hi
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08:46:02  <monsti>is there any verbose debug output on npm install?
08:46:17  <monsti>i am writing a package and the build step is missing or creates some error
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08:57:53  <ozette>monsti: afaik npm writes a error log
08:58:02  <joepie91>monsti: you want the 'silly' loglevel
08:58:03  <ozette>when it fails
08:58:05  <joepie91>I forgot the exact flag
09:00:30  <ozette>do i need a public key on my server to communicate with another server over https?
09:01:00  <joepie91>ozette: I think you mean a keypair?
09:01:11  <doodadjs>you mean the certificate ?
09:01:29  <joepie91>and well, you don't *need* a keypair/certificate on the client, unless you want to use it for authenticating the client, in which case you do
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09:04:38  <ozette>joepie91: i see
09:05:11  <ozette>joepie91: i've tried several libraries to communicate with another server which only communicates over https
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09:06:04  <ozette>node-soap, easysoap, request .. with all of them i end up with an error: "unable to verify the first certificate"
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09:06:47  <ozette>i'm no expert on https and now i'm stuck
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09:12:53  <darsain>is there a way to reference the root of the current module in require statements? so instead of require('../../../foo'), you'd do require('thismodule/foo')
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09:13:48  <doodadjs>darsain: you can refer to your package + a path
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09:13:55  <darsain>I know about the "file:" thingy for package.json:dependencies, but that requires package.json to be at that location, and it's only for npm. require doesn't care about it, so you have to do npm install every time you change anything at that "file:location"
09:14:08  <darsain>doodadjs, how? example require statement please :)
09:14:29  <doodadjs>require('mapackage/foo/bar')
09:14:30  <joepie91>ozette: sounds more like the server certificate is broken
09:14:39  <joepie91>or it refers to a different kind of certificate entirely
09:14:49  <darsain>doodadjs, I've tested this 5 minutes ago. didn't work
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09:15:10  <joepie91>[11:12] <darsain> is there a way to reference the root of the current module in require statements? so instead of require('../../../foo'), you'd do require('thismodule/foo')
09:15:15  <joepie91>yes, `rfr`
09:15:23  <joepie91>but it will only work for applications, generally speaking, not modules
09:15:28  <joepie91>ie. it will only work for the top-level module
09:15:58  <joepie91>(`rfr` is a module)
09:16:24  <monsti>joepie91: how can i set this loglevel?
09:16:30  <doodadjs>-ddd
09:16:37  <joepie91>monsti: I don't know, you'd have to look at the docs
09:16:42  <joepie91>I just know that it exists
09:16:43  <joepie91>:p
09:16:49  <doodadjs>monsti: -ddd
09:16:57  <monsti>thx
09:17:25  <monsti>ok :) my head gets a lot of colors ;)
09:17:32  <darsain>joepie91, hm... that is cool, but I kinda need something build into require() already, since I'm building for front-end, and parser relies on current require logic. it won't know what to do with rfr() damn :(
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09:18:25  <joepie91>darsain: you're using webpack or browserify, I assume?
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09:18:57  <darsain>joepie91, actually mako :) but you can assume browserify. mostly the same logic
09:19:15  <darsain>uses detective to get dependencies
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09:19:42  <joepie91>never heard of it
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09:19:54  <joepie91>anyhow, yeah, in browserify-type setups, there's no solution for your problem
09:20:04  <joepie91>no good one anyway
09:20:13  <joepie91>so you're pretty much stuck with .. :P
09:20:25  <joepie91>there are various hacks for it but those are really a bad idea
09:20:32  <darsain>damn. it should be built into require :/
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09:20:58  <joepie91>(referring to the package itself which assumes that it is installed, symlink hackery, global settings, and so on... all things you want to avoid)
09:21:01  <joepie91>darsain: well, it is
09:21:03  <joepie91>using ..
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09:21:05  <joepie91>:P
09:21:16  <joepie91>I mean, "module root" is surprisingly hard to define
09:21:33  <doodadjs>darsain: you could split your package into two or more packages
09:21:40  <joepie91>so the safer option is to just let people specify explicit relative paths
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09:22:26  <ozette>any way i can verify the server certificate is broken? i used the website 'ssllabs' yesterday, and all seemed well
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09:23:09  <dretnx>I'm trying to pause a stream inside 'match' event of saxpath stream ( https://www.npmjs.com/package/saxpath ), and it doesn't work
09:23:27  <darsain>joepie91, I'd assume module root is where the first package.json when walking dir structure upwards resides. but ohwell, relatives it is. ty for help :)
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09:23:52  <joepie91>darsain: not necessarily though
09:24:01  <joepie91>you can install a module without even having a package.json
09:24:02  <joepie91>:P
09:24:31  <joepie91>ozette: using openssl_client, from the system on which it breaks
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09:24:42  <joepie91>it's -possible- that something is messed up in the system's trust store for certificate authorities
09:24:44  <darsain>joepie91, also, give https://github.com/makojs/core a shot :) it excells especially for styles, where you can use require logic in @import statements, and handles fonts, images, and other assets linked to in styles. awesome and easy to use. such a heaven compared to webpack etc
09:24:49  <joepie91>and so everything considers it invalid
09:25:03  <joepie91>(I'm not sure whether Node bundles its own CAs for SSL/TLS stuff)
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09:25:16  <dretnx>I'm using example source code on link I posted
09:25:35  <joepie91>darsain: SCSS gives me the same though
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09:25:38  <commma>joepie91: it does, there's a but report about that somewhere
09:25:40  <joepie91>wrt imports
09:25:41  <commma>*bug
09:25:53  <darsain>joepie91, SCSS consumes node modules?
09:26:01  <commma>joepie91: https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/4175
09:26:03  <joepie91>darsain: and from the sounds of it, this bundles style into the JS, which means I wouldn't use it for the same reason I wouldn't use webpack for styles
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09:26:07  <joepie91>darsain: huh?
09:26:12  <joepie91>I meant importing scss files
09:26:16  <joepie91>not sure what node modules have to do with it...?
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09:26:32  <joepie91>commma: aha. noted.
09:26:33  <joepie91>thanks
09:26:34  <darsain>joepie91, @import "nodemodule", and it bundles separate .css file, with assets next to it (or whetever you define)
09:26:46  <darsain>joepie91, webpack bundles styles into js, which is why I dont use it
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09:27:21  <joepie91>darsain: how does it bundle it? and how is such a module defined? and why can't this be a bundling task in something like gulp or grunt?
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09:27:36  <darsain>joepie91, in nodemodule you can than export your css by just having index.css (or whatever your main js file is, just rename extension to css)
09:28:04  <darsain>it's THE ideal front end builder based on npm
09:28:12  <joepie91>darsain: okay, but concretely, what does this give me that a simple import of 'node_modules/somepackage/index.css' doesn't give me with SCSS already?
09:28:13  <darsain>honestly. I researched this a lot
09:28:46  <joepie91>I mean, it being theoretically a bit nicer is nice, but that doesn't take into consideration interoperability with the rest of the ecosystem
09:28:58  <darsain>joepie91, ease of use? and you need to know precise file path of that css. in mako you just do @import "module"
09:28:58  <joepie91>so it's going to need a significant improvement to be a good choice
09:29:07  <joepie91>you don't need to know that in what I suggested either
09:29:14  <joepie91>the path is always node_modules/$modulename/index.css
09:29:20  <joepie91>assuming you follow the same index.css convention
09:29:34  <joepie91>from a predictability POV, it's not different from @import "module" in any way
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09:29:36  <joepie91>just more characters
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09:29:44  <joepie91>and saving a few characters isn't worth ditching an entire ecosystem to me
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09:30:13  <joepie91>this seems more suitable as something like a postcss plugin, really
09:30:18  <darsain>joepie91, what ecosystem would you be ditching out? mako is made so it seamlessly blends into current npm ecosystem
09:30:35  <joepie91>darsain: to me, it looks like it is trying to be its own build system
09:30:41  <joepie91>I don't _want_ a new build system
09:30:41  <darsain>it's a sucessor of component, and later duo
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09:31:07  <joepie91>webpack is trying to do the same thing and it's incredibly annoying
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09:32:29  <ozette>hmm i get a 405 error by using easysoap's soapClient.call({ .. })
09:33:03  <ozette>i have no idea what kind of http verb it's trying to use because i see no option for this, shouldn't the wsdl describe this?
09:33:23  <joepie91>darsain: see, the problem is that if it were just something that handles imports in CSS more nicely, it'd be an interesting thing to use and combine with my existing build setup
09:33:32  <darsain>joepie91, well, than I don't understand what you want I guess :) I want an easy to use front-end builder consuming npm modules. meaning builder where styles, assets, and html are a first class citizen. not only a hacky afterthought like in webpack and borwserify.
09:33:37  <joepie91>but that's not what I get from reading through it
09:33:50  <darsain>yes thats exactly what it does
09:33:54  <joepie91>no
09:33:57  <joepie91>that's one of the things it does
09:34:04  <joepie91>the problem is I don't care for the other 30 :)
09:34:20  <joepie91>and what you've just described sounds nice in theory
09:34:42  <joepie91>but in practice I don't see why I need to bundle HTML outside of reusable components (which riotjs-loader already does fine for me)
09:34:56  <joepie91>and bundling CSS in my existing SCSS workflow is already simple, just requires a few more chars
09:35:01  <joepie91>there's no selling point in this, to me
09:35:06  <joepie91>it doesn't solve any actual problems I have well
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09:35:57  <joepie91>and no amount of "theoretically better" is going to change that I already have a working setup that does almost entirely what I want, and the few things it doesn't do well aren't necessarily solved by this, or are only solved in return for unacceptable tradeoffs
09:36:12  <joepie91>like losing ecosystem compatibility, for example
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09:36:18  <darsain>ok this is how it works. you give it index.css, it'll give you back build.css with all @import dependencies included, and also all depency files from that css (fonts, images, ...) relinked in that build.css, ready to be placed or simlinked into "build/" folder.
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09:36:53  <darsain>or, you give it index.scss, but include an scss() plugin for coversion
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09:37:15  <joepie91>yeah, I understand how it works.
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09:38:06  <hocza>hi, can you tell me what is going on here. I have this: data = {"message":"hi","user":"testUser"} and I just cannot data.message, it says undefined. :(
09:38:35  <joepie91>hocza: probably something else going on, gist your full code? https://gist.github.com/
09:39:44  <darsain>joepie91, it also has building for static html files. so you give it index.html, and it does the same. includes dependencies, gives you back a bundle for your "public/" folder
09:39:58  <joepie91>darsain: I'm sure, but I don't -need- any of that
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09:40:26  <joepie91>like, I'm not disputing that it is doing these things, or even that it is doing them well
09:40:32  <joepie91>I just have no reason to use this
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09:40:42  <joepie91>it doesn't solve any problems I have
09:40:48  <hocza>joepie91: https://gist.github.com/hocza/fce81b4e9c7452e4d2f0fa9ea2ee6235
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09:41:08  <darsain>joepie91, it'll pick up .js, .css, .scss from that html, and build it as you'd expect and create a bundle ready for "public/", it all works together
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09:41:21  <joepie91>darsain: you can keep explaining but it doesn't change my answer :|
09:41:35  <darsain>joepie91, I just want you to acknowledge it's the best front-end builder out there atm :)))