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00:34:29  <mdedetrich>hi everybody!
00:39:27  <ArxPoetica>hey
00:39:31  <ArxPoetica>guess you saw this? http://logs.libuv.org/socketstream/latest
00:39:43  <ArxPoetica>logs
00:47:53  <ArxPoetica>hey mdedetrich
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00:58:44  <mdedetrich>oh no I havent
00:58:48  <mdedetrich>is that just a log of this irc?
01:06:44  <ArxPoetica>yeah
01:07:54  <ArxPoetica>Hey mdedetrich, do you know the answer to this: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/socketstream/tDYlT_5-h9c ?
01:08:21  <mdedetrich>ArxPoetica: not possible
01:08:27  <ArxPoetica>Why is that
01:08:38  <mdedetrich>its the way that Owen designed it, I asked about this ages ago
01:08:41  <ArxPoetica>So basically, it's only rpc
01:08:49  <mdedetrich>he wants the initial page to be served in cache
01:08:55  <ArxPoetica>I see...
01:08:58  <mdedetrich>which is not possible if you have variables
01:09:12  <mdedetrich>that is broken in my version of SS though, and it will likely also be broken in 4.0
01:09:24  <ArxPoetica>You jail broke it?
01:09:25  <ArxPoetica>ha
01:09:30  <mdedetrich>so he may implement that functionality in 4.x
01:09:32  <mdedetrich>as in
01:09:39  <mdedetrich>due to CSRF, you can't cache initial pages
01:09:50  <ArxPoetica>ahhh...
01:09:55  <ArxPoetica>right, that whole conversation
01:10:05  <mdedetrich>so there isn't any reason to not be able to provide variables in the ss.client.define anymore
01:10:18  <ArxPoetica>I get the whole caching thing.
01:10:59  <ArxPoetica>But yeah, I'm finding myself in a world of hurt when it comes to authentication :P
01:11:16  <mdedetrich>if you do auth over roc (or sockets) it shouldn't be an issue
01:11:26  <mdedetrich>I can see how it can be an issue if you are using another library
01:11:28  <mdedetrich>*rpc
01:12:08  <ArxPoetica>Well, at least that question is finally answered, so I can stop chasing it.
01:12:31  <mdedetrich>in fact, most 3rd party libraries need that
01:12:38  <mdedetrich>specifically for csrf tokens
01:12:44  <ArxPoetica>For CSRF, though…did you actually hack SS to do it?
01:13:13  <mdedetrich>well if by hack you mean changed some of the code
01:13:15  <mdedetrich>then yes
01:13:23  <ArxPoetica>There's got to be a way to cache *most* of the app…but let a certain portion be variable
01:13:37  <ArxPoetica>I believe it's actually what Derby does.
01:13:38  <mdedetrich>with gripping, there isn't any point in that
01:13:46  <mdedetrich>*gzipping
01:13:50  <ArxPoetica>ah
01:13:56  <ArxPoetica>that's interesting.
01:14:06  <ArxPoetica>So gzip is about the same speed?
01:14:14  <mdedetrich>most web servers don't cache the initial page, I understand where owen is coming from regarding performance
01:14:26  <mdedetrich>but this is an area that is neither a bottleneck, nor should be cached
01:14:32  <ArxPoetica>gotcha
01:14:35  <mdedetrich>ArxPoetica: what do you mean about speed
01:14:47  <ArxPoetica>sorry. cache is just a performance issue, right?
01:15:05  <ArxPoetica>my understanding is you were saying gzip is the way around that performance bottleneck?
01:15:13  <ArxPoetica>Or am I just not getting it (that's very possible, ha)
01:15:40  <ArxPoetica>I mean the reason Owen is concerned w/ server caching is to speed things up
01:15:44  <ArxPoetica>Yes?
01:15:58  <ArxPoetica>But you're saying gzipping can solve the same problem.
01:17:34  <ArxPoetica>Derby, for example, (if I understand it correctly) only caches sections of the template: http://derbyjs.com/#predefined_templates
01:18:01  <ArxPoetica>Doctype, Root, Charset, Title, Head…etc.
01:18:22  <mdedetrich>ok
01:18:28  <mdedetrich>he means cache in regards to performance
01:18:30  <mdedetrich>for the server
01:18:40  <mdedetrich>if you cache the entire single web page as a variable on server side
01:18:54  <mdedetrich>it doesn't need to be recalculated every time the server sends the page to a client
01:19:18  <mdedetrich>now you can still do the same thing with variables on a single page (its just the variable will change and the other 99% of the html will be cached)
01:19:25  <mdedetrich>the problem is when you put gzip into the equation
01:19:36  <mdedetrich>to serve something as gzip, you have to gzip the entire page
01:19:42  <ArxPoetica>right
01:19:51  <mdedetrich>you can't gzip the variable, gzip the rest of the page (cache this) and combine it
01:19:58  <mdedetrich>you have to gzip an entire page from the getgo
01:20:05  <ArxPoetica>got it
01:20:33  <mdedetrich>you can use minification as an alternative to gzip, which you can combine
01:20:46  <mdedetrich>but gzip has much much much better compression
01:20:51  <ArxPoetica>i see
01:21:04  <ArxPoetica>so is there a solution to this problem?
01:22:26  <ArxPoetica>you said something above about "this is an area that is neither a bottleneck, nor should be cached"
01:22:37  <ArxPoetica>(sorry, just interested in this question)
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01:27:24  <mdedetrich>my point is, there is no point in doing such a cahce
01:27:25  <mdedetrich>*cache
01:27:28  <mdedetrich>in the first place
01:28:44  <ArxPoetica>I see..
01:29:11  <ArxPoetica>It's definitely a difference between derby and ss
01:29:32  <ArxPoetica>(seo)
01:29:54  <mdedetrich>well you can't do SEO on dynamic content
01:29:58  <mdedetrich>sorry
01:30:04  <mdedetrich>you can't do caching on dynamic content
01:30:36  <mdedetrich>you can also do client side SEO
01:30:46  <mdedetrich>SS also aint designed for SEO
01:31:30  <mdedetrich>although my opinion is that it def should be possible to provide variables, and you can do SEO through something like express
01:32:34  <mdedetrich>even though SS is not designed for SEO, it should still be possible
01:32:50  <ArxPoetica>right
01:33:00  <ArxPoetica>all my seo needs are being handled via express
01:33:13  <ArxPoetica>and i agree w/ that last statement
01:33:21  <ArxPoetica>*it should be possible
01:33:30  <mdedetrich>even if its ugly, you should still be able to do it
01:33:35  <ArxPoetica>right
01:34:22  <ArxPoetica>Well, good discussion
01:37:51  <ArxPoetica>I'm glad somebody's really paying attention to authentication.
01:39:15  <mdedetrich>right now, doing any kind of authentication in SS is technically not secure
01:39:19  <mdedetrich>due to missing CSRF
01:39:34  <mdedetrich>I will eventually get around to doing a pull request for the changes I did
01:39:36  <mdedetrich>should be tommorow
01:39:43  <ArxPoetica>awesome
01:39:57  <ArxPoetica>would you mind posting that link here, even if I'm gone?
01:40:01  <ArxPoetica>I'll check the logs. :P
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05:18:00  <mhr>I saw on the todomvc website and...I'm confused as to what socketstream...is it mvc?
05:18:16  <mhr>*I saw a todo app using socketstream
05:18:39  <mhr>*what socketsream is
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05:26:00  <mhr>*socketstream is
05:41:33  <mhr>right, I gotta go guys, ttyl
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19:02:21  <appsunit_>Does anybody know, how I can use the cookieParser by Express in SocketStream?
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19:25:48  <ArxPoetica1>lo
19:33:02  <appsunit_>?
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