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| <SubStack> | heading down to H&F in the city |
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| <jesusabdullah> | SubStack: Halp the fat arrow man is being mean https://gist.github.com/2364818#comments :( |
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| <chapel> | how goes it jesusabdullah? |
| 02:58:26
| <jesusabdullah> | terrible! Brendan Eich's trying to add fat arrow syntax to javascript! |
| 02:58:31
| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [free: 19] |
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| <jesusabdullah> | I'm worried it will discourage dynamic scoping in the future |
| 02:58:57
| <jesusabdullah> | which imo is one of javascript's coolest features |
| 03:00:11
| <chapel> | -> was supposed to be shorthand for normal anon functions |
| 03:00:26
| <chapel> | right? |
| 03:00:28
| <maxogden> | yeah but "two arrow syntaxes will confuse people" |
| 03:00:37
| <chapel> | it doesn't in coffeescript |
| 03:02:12
| <jesusabdullah> | chapel: No, they DROPPED -> because they could "only reach concensus" on => |
| 03:03:02
| <jesusabdullah> | I'd be okay with -> as a shorter function syntax, and given that this exists I'm also cool with => existing |
| 03:03:05
| <jesusabdullah> | I guess |
| 03:03:21
| <jesusabdullah> | but I see this terrible attitude towards this-ing |
| 03:03:38
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| 03:03:40
| <jesusabdullah> | like they're trying to make dynamic scoping EVEN SHITTIER |
| 03:03:59
| <jesusabdullah> | in order to discourage people from using it |
| 03:05:46
| <chapel> | its like they look at this as their ugly red headed step child and are trying to get rid of it |
| 03:05:50
| <chapel> | or make it unfavorable to use |
| 03:07:01
| <jesusabdullah> | yeah |
| 03:07:12
| <jesusabdullah> | I almost expect it to immediately be linted out of codebases |
| 03:07:19
| <jesusabdullah> | going the way of `with` |
| 03:07:22
| <jesusabdullah> | it's that bad |
| 03:07:48
| <chapel> | it is sad that they are pushing for change for changes sake |
| 03:08:11
| <chapel> | and introducing change that will ruin a viable usage |
| 03:10:05
| <chapel> | I am weary of the es6 changes, just feels like they are going to change things and not for the better |
| 03:29:21
| <Raynos> | SubStack: I have to jump through a shit ton of hoops to make `require("dnode")` magically work on client & server |
| 03:29:44
| <Raynos> | I'm sharing a single file server/client using browserify for the client and I just expected `require("dnode")` to magically grab the browser build, it doesn't |
| 03:29:58
| <Raynos> | If I make a pull request to make that happen in dnode, is that worth the effort? |
| 03:30:32
| <chapel> | http://www.mikealrogers.com/posts/a-vocal-minority.html |
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| 04:14:40
| <Raynos> | dnode doesn't proxy methods defined in prototypes |
| 04:14:43
| <Raynos> | which becomes an issue |
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| <chapel> | why is that a problem, whats the usecase there? |
| 04:32:18
| <jesusabdullah> | you can proxy to your prototype methods by hand maybe :) |
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| 05:08:12
| <Raynos> | Thats a nightmare |
| 05:08:15
| <Raynos> | I tried that |
| 05:08:20
| <Raynos> | dnode has two issues |
| 05:08:26
| <Raynos> | it doesn't set `this` properly |
| 05:08:44
| <Raynos> | invoking `obj.method()` remotely doesn't go back and set `this === obj` on the server |
| 05:08:54
| <Raynos> | and it doesn't allow me to invoke methods from the prototype remotely |
| 05:09:12
| <Raynos> | which basically means I need to intercept dnode somewhere |
| 05:33:16
| <Raynos> | Ok I cant fix dnode :( |
| 05:33:20
| <Raynos> | limitations suck |
| 05:33:55
| <chapel> | it isn't really a limitation |
| 05:34:05
| <chapel> | its by design |
| 05:34:13
| <Raynos> | fail by design you mean :P |
| 05:34:56
| <Raynos> | are there any RPC libraries I can throw complex objects at and it just works |
| 05:34:57
| <chapel> | I assume you are trying to do something like this.foo = bar |
| 05:35:11
| <chapel> | where as bar is an object prototype you created? |
| 05:36:04
| <Raynos> | im passing objects through callbacks |
| 05:36:12
| <Raynos> | im actually passing an instance of mongodb collection through dnode |
| 05:36:16
| <Raynos> | and expecting it to just work |
| 05:36:24
| <chapel> | lol |
| 05:36:56
| <Raynos> | if it did RPC right it would just work :P |
| 05:37:01
| <Raynos> | because all mongodb methods use callbacks |
| 05:37:16
| <chapel> | well you should look into how dnode passes functions |
| 05:37:21
| <chapel> | it doesn't pass the actual code |
| 05:37:26
| <Raynos> | i know |
| 05:37:33
| <Raynos> | i identified the issues |
| 05:37:47
| <Raynos> | it manually sets thte `this` value to `self.instance` rather then the object passed through |
| 05:37:55
| <Raynos> | and the traverse it uses to scrub ignores prototypes |
| 05:38:28
| <Raynos> | my attempts at fixing the issue failed at the circular references passed over RPC point |
| 05:38:55
| <Raynos> | im just going to use a RPC layer that already fixed this |
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| 05:44:25
| <chapel> | well Im not going to try and convince you use dnode, its obvious you would rather do it your way even if it isn't the right way :) |
| 05:54:18
| <Raynos> | my way is the right way :P |
| 05:55:06
| <Raynos> | I'm trying expose the mongoDB API to the client by transparently throwing the objects through RPC. The alternative is to rebuild and proxy the entire API on the client |
| 05:55:12
| <Raynos> | the latter is time consuming as heck |
| 05:58:31
| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [free: 12] |
| 05:59:06
| <chapel> | naively exposing the whole api is dumb, and lazy |
| 05:59:14
| <chapel> | there are so many reasons you don't want to do that |
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| 06:21:41
| <jesusabdullah> | so, apparently I get a free ebook from http://www.packtpub.com/ for reviewing this node book for them |
| 06:21:56
| <jesusabdullah> | but none of these books sound appealing to me! |
| 06:22:07
| <jesusabdullah> | So I need help picking the least unappealing book |
| 06:44:26
| <SubStack> | Raynos: the problem with sending prototypes over the wire is that there is a LOT of stuff to send and they're usually synchronous apis |
| 06:45:02
| <Raynos> | chapel: I agree, but it's quick and dirty |
| 06:45:27
| <Raynos> | Optimumly I wrap the entire api intelligently and use a custom methods over dnode for invocation |
| 06:46:12
| <Raynos> | I just wanted to throw a complex database object through the RPC and have all methods with callback "just work" out of the box ignoring performance penalties |
| 06:46:42
| <SubStack> | the koding.com folks built a wrapper on top of dnode that exposes prototypes somehow |
| 06:46:54
| <SubStack> | not open source though :/ |
| 06:46:58
| <Raynos> | :/ |
| 06:47:01
| <Raynos> | I wrote a wrapper myself |
| 06:47:07
| <Raynos> | but it breaks due to circular references |
| 06:47:22
| <Raynos> | I think I just have to do this the hard way |
| 06:47:32
| <Raynos> | which is annoying because mongodb has hundreds of methods for me to mock -.- |
| 06:49:34
| <SubStack> | you could write a transform in traverse |
| 06:49:43
| <SubStack> | it has circular reference detection |
| 06:51:23
| <Raynos> | I tried that, I didnt have time to figure out how to solve everything |
| 06:51:33
| <Raynos> | jesusabdullah: none of those are any good |
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| <jesusabdullah> | Raynos: That's what I'm saying |
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| <SubStack> | https://twitter.com/#!/tbiz/status/190630859936768000 |
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| <Altreus> | :) |
| 08:17:51
| <SubStack> | =^_^= |
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| 11:12:10
| <Blizzz> | hey |
| 11:12:23
| <Blizzz> | what do i do when i lost/forgot my SSH password for browslering? |
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| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [free: 25] |
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| <pkrumins> | Blizzz: you can upload your public key! |
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| <pkrumins> | Blizzz: http://testling.com/docs/#tunnels |
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| <Blizzz> | pkrumins: ah, perfect. only a little late now, unfortunately, since i need the password to copy it over. |
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| <pkrumins> | oh hmm |
| 14:28:52
| <pkrumins> | let me reset your password then |
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| <pkrumins> | message me the password please |
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| <rowbit> | /!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) [email protected] successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\ |
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| <rowbit> | /!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\ |
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| <pkrumins> | cash money. |
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| <pkrumins> | at 91 customer now. |
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| <rook2pawn> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk9NokdKBSI |
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| <maxogden> | st_luke: efffff yeaaaa tacoconf |
| 20:53:42
| <st_luke> | yeeeeeeeeahhhh dude |
| 20:53:52
| <st_luke> | fist time on the west cost too |
| 20:54:32
| <maxogden> | st_luke: i bet stackhaus has an extra bike you can use |
| 20:54:36
| <maxogden> | st_luke: or actually i do to |
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| <st_luke> | oh that would be awesome |
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| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 18] |
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| <st_luke> | I have this nagging feeling it might make me want to move to the area |
| 21:04:27
| <jesusabdullah> | st_luke: you can borrow my bike I never use it |
| 21:04:40
| <jesusabdullah> | !! I HEAR COFFEE |
| 21:04:41
| <LOUDBOT> | THIS IS BUTTHURT. I CAN TELL BY THE IPODS, AND FROM HAVING SEEN A LOT OF DOCTORS IN MY DAY. |
| 21:04:41
| <st_luke> | jesusabdullah: not going to taco conf? |
| 21:04:54
| <jesusabdullah> | st_luke: I haven't thought that far ahead! |
| 21:07:32
| <st_luke> | you cray dude. I heard a preview of the speakers when max was in BK and I wouldn't miss it |
| 21:07:38
| <st_luke> | esp if you're already in the area |
| 21:07:56
| <jesusabdullah> | I guess I just hate bicycles THAT much |
| 21:08:39
| <st_luke> | will your enjoyment of tacos & js balance out the bike hate? |
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| 22:29:07
| <pkrumins> | st_luke: you can also stay at stackhouse! |
| 22:29:16
| <pkrumins> | just saw your tweet that you're going to oakland |
| 22:29:37
| <pkrumins> | you should talk with SubStack about staying at stackhouse |
| 22:36:42
| <SubStack> | yep! |
| 22:36:47
| <st_luke> | really? that would be really amazing guys |
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| 22:38:39
| <pkrumins> | yeah |
| 22:38:52
| <st_luke> | I will come bearing cool gifts from upstate NY |
| 22:38:53
| <st_luke> | heh |
| 22:39:15
| <st_luke> | whatever it is we have up here |
| 22:46:53
| <Raynos> | SubStack: you can't call `require("dnode")` and throw browserify over it and then have it be the dnode client in the browser currenlty. |
| 22:47:29
| <Raynos> | you have to include it as a script through /dnode.js. What's the best way to patch this and get you to accept a pull request on this? |
| 22:52:54
| <SubStack> | you can't? |
| 22:53:03
| <SubStack> | pretty sure I've been doing this in production for a while now |
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| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 18] |
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| <Raynos> | SubStack: I'm looking at it, it just works |
| 23:00:00
| <Raynos> | I'm mad |
| 23:02:13
| <SubStack> | browserify <(echo "var dnode = require('dnode')") -o bundle.js |
| 23:02:15
| <SubStack> | seems to work |
| 23:02:46
| <Raynos> | what black magic do you use for this |
| 23:03:17
| <Raynos> | does browserify emulate net / tls / http |
| 23:03:18
| <SubStack> | in the package.json you can have a "browserify" field |
| 23:03:28
| <SubStack> | of any project |
| 23:03:30
| <Raynos> | oh |
| 23:03:32
| <Raynos> | wait what |
| 23:03:35
| <Raynos> | that's cheating -.- |
| 23:03:44
| <Raynos> | how am I supposed to know that works |
| 23:03:50
| <Raynos> | it also doesn't work without browserify :P |
| 23:03:58
| <SubStack> | it's just like "main" |
| 23:04:11
| <SubStack> | except browserify uses that instead of the main |
| 23:04:14
| <SubStack> | if present |
| 23:04:43
| <SubStack> | so in dnode there's "main" : "index.js" |
| 23:04:50
| <SubStack> | and "browserify" : "browser/index.js" |
| 23:04:52
| <Raynos> | browserify uses ES5 shim by default right? |
| 23:04:54
| <SubStack> | just different entry points |
| 23:04:56
| <SubStack> | nope |
| 23:05:03
| <SubStack> | you'll need to include an es5 shim yourself |
| 23:05:10
| <Raynos> | Ah ok |
| 23:06:18
| <SubStack> | you can use the shimify module though |
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| <Raynos> | That's cool |
| 23:09:35
| <Raynos> | can i patch dnode so it also works with other commonJS wrappers? |
| 23:10:14
| <Raynos> | because browserify specific logic is browserify specific |
| 23:10:38
| <SubStack> | you could probably add a wrapper around the output |
| 23:11:04
| <SubStack> | but I will not accept a patch for that in dnode itself |
| 23:11:13
| <SubStack> | because I hate those other wrappers |
| 23:11:28
| <Raynos> | why do you hate those other wrappers? |
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| 23:11:50
| <SubStack> | especially the ones that make you indent your whole file with a define() or that make you pass a callback to require() |
| 23:11:51
| <Raynos> | For example ( https://github.com/medikoo/modules-webmake ) |
| 23:12:06
| <Raynos> | I'm talking about other libraries that do the exact same thing browserify does |
| 23:12:17
| <Raynos> | except don't look at the browserify field for the package.json |
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| <SubStack> | the problem with those modules is that they don't usually work with stuff in node_modules |
| 23:13:58
| <SubStack> | or things pulled down from npm |
| 23:14:12
| <SubStack> | and the dnode browser source is built from modules on npm |
| 23:14:31
| <SubStack> | and I'm not going to work around how other browser loaders can't do that |
| 23:14:58
| <SubStack> | the reason I wrote browserify in the first place was that I wouldn't need to have separate versions of all the subcomponents specifically for the browser |
| 23:15:04
| <SubStack> | for dnode specifically |
| 23:15:38
| <Raynos> | ah i see |
| 23:15:44
| <Raynos> | I'm not thinking this through :P |
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| <SubStack> | I built browserify specifically for dnode :p |
| 23:17:14
| <SubStack> | but what you could do |
| 23:17:21
| <SubStack> | is just throw a wrapper around all of dnode |
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| 23:17:54
| <Raynos> | yeah |
| 23:18:03
| <Raynos> | But that's a pain |
| 23:18:08
| <Raynos> | because it will have to be build with browserify |
| 23:18:28
| <Raynos> | I'd rather undo everything you solved with browserify :D |
| 23:18:30
| <SubStack> | only the dnode blog |
| 23:18:35
| <SubStack> | s/.$/b/ |
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| 23:19:11
| <SubStack> | just do this: |
| 23:19:16
| <SubStack> | cat <(browserify <(echo "require('dnode')")) <(echo "module.exports = require('dnode')") > dnode.js |
| 23:19:34
| <Raynos> | I know but then im using browserify :( |
| 23:19:34
| <SubStack> | then you can just require('./dnode') |
| 23:19:38
| <SubStack> | yes |
| 23:19:47
| <SubStack> | because only browserify is node-compatible enough to build dnode |
| 23:19:58
| <SubStack> | that I know of |
| 23:20:42
| <SubStack> | what is wrong with using browserify? |
| 23:21:04
| * chapel | joined |
| 23:21:25
| <SubStack> | also: |
| 23:21:25
| <SubStack> | 23:11:32 < Raynos> I'm talking about other libraries that do the exact same thing browserify does |
| 23:21:31
| <Raynos> | https://github.com/Raynos/tiny-require#motivation |
| 23:21:32
| <SubStack> | ^ no such libraries exist |
| 23:21:47
| <Raynos> | I agree, browserify is unique in it's emulating of node core modules |
| 23:22:05
| <Raynos> | the main issue I have with browserify is the lack of async support and the byte size |
| 23:22:18
| <SubStack> | lacking async support is a feature, not a bug |
| 23:22:20
| <Raynos> | I havn't rewritten something that solves the byte size problem yet |
| 23:22:22
| <SubStack> | fuck async loaders |
| 23:22:25
| <Raynos> | No |
| 23:22:28
| <Raynos> | not like that |
| 23:22:30
| <SubStack> | I'm never going to support those ever |
| 23:22:44
| <Raynos> | I mean having a single blocking entry point |
| 23:23:07
| <Raynos> | then traversing all the require calls out, loading the file asynchronously, traversing require calls out of those, load asynchronously, repeat |
| 23:23:39
| <Raynos> | async require syntax is silly |
| 23:23:40
| <SubStack> | that sounds really slow |
| 23:23:50
| <Raynos> | it's not that slow because of individual caching |
| 23:23:52
| <SubStack> | I also wrote a module to do that http://github.com/substack/wreq |
| 23:24:03
| <Raynos> | what ._. |
| 23:24:12
| <Raynos> | why no-one tell me substack solves all the problems |
| 23:24:12
| <SubStack> | but I don't use it for anything, it's just a proof of concept |
| 23:24:35
| <Raynos> | ok browserify still suffers from the bytesize overhead :P |
| 23:24:48
| <SubStack> | "bytesize overhead" |
| 23:25:12
| <SubStack> | $ browserify <(echo) |wc -c |
| 23:25:12
| <SubStack> | 9690 |
| 23:25:22
| <Raynos> | 10kb ! |
| 23:25:24
| <SubStack> | 9 kilobytes is amazingly tiny |
| 23:25:32
| <SubStack> | images are hundereds of kilobytes |
| 23:25:43
| <SubStack> | and you can run it through a minifier |
| 23:25:43
| <Raynos> | its huge if your writing a small library that supports commonJS only |
| 23:25:53
| <Raynos> | and you want to write a tiny wrapper for it |
| 23:26:23
| <SubStack> | I'm not sure what you mean |
| 23:26:45
| <devaholic> | hmm, i cant get anything to return with `seaport ip:port show` from my local, but using curl i can see some json, and on the ip using seaport ip:port show works |
| 23:27:12
| <SubStack> | devaholic: the ip:port thing was broken, I just published a patch a few hours ago |
| 23:27:20
| <SubStack> | only a problem in the bin script |
| 23:27:28
| <SubStack> | upgrade to 0.6.7 and it should work! |
| 23:27:48
| <Raynos> | SubStack: https://github.com/Raynos/NodeComposite uses commonJS. It's 1.1kb gzip/minified, 350bytes of that are the commonJS wrapper |
| 23:27:53
| <devaholic> | hmm, i already did |
| 23:27:57
| <SubStack> | ! |
| 23:27:58
| <Raynos> | That's using webmake rather then browserify |
| 23:28:09
| <Raynos> | I'm basically hand optimizing bytes :( |
| 23:28:17
| <Raynos> | anyway this is irrelevant, you already solved the problem |
| 23:28:28
| <SubStack> | who cares |
| 23:28:32
| <SubStack> | computers are fast now |
| 23:28:57
| <SubStack> | I don't get the obsession people have with minimizing file sizes >_< |
| 23:28:59
| <Raynos> | the good news is that dnode magically works with browserify |
| 23:29:03
| <SubStack> | yes |
| 23:29:25
| <Raynos> | the other good news is I'm using browserify \o/ |
| 23:29:49
| <SubStack> | well if we're talking minified/gzipped files then that's not a fair comparison! |
| 23:30:14
| <SubStack> | $ browserify <(echo) | uglifyjs | gzip | wc -c |
| 23:30:14
| <SubStack> | 1669 |
| 23:30:20
| <SubStack> | :p |
| 23:30:24
| <Raynos> | yeah that's still 1300 more bytes |
| 23:30:32
| <Raynos> | I'm sure I can get tiny-require down to 50 bytes |
| 23:30:50
| <SubStack> | seems unimportant |
| 23:31:05
| <Raynos> | it also remaps those long require strings like "dnode" and "browserify" to sensible strings like "a" and "b" \o/ |
| 23:31:10
| <jesusabdullah> | browserify.jit.su does uglify minimization |
| 23:31:14
| <Raynos> | it's really unimportant |
| 23:31:37
| <SubStack> | haha |
| 23:31:50
| <Raynos> | the annoying thing is deciding how to support the same code client/server without faking all the node APIs like browserify does |
| 23:32:10
| <SubStack> | some of the apis aren't even fake |
| 23:32:16
| <maxogden> | SubStack: https://github.com/dominictarr/JSONStream/blob/master/index.js#L69-71 |
| 23:32:24
| <SubStack> | like http.request and process.nextTick |
| 23:32:26
| <maxogden> | SubStack: you should make browserify bufffer do that |
| 23:32:46
| <SubStack> | maxogden: good thinking |
| 23:33:08
| <Raynos> | I was looking at how mikeal's request just works using browserify which is hella impressive |
| 23:33:42
| <SubStack> | process.nextTick also uses the window event api to actually do a next tick |
| 23:34:04
| <SubStack> | and falls back to using setTimeout(fn, 0) in browsers that don't have that api |
| 23:34:19
| <SubStack> | and vm.runInNewContext() uses iframes to make new javascript contexts |
| 23:34:39
| * daehee | quit (Quit: daehee) |
| 23:34:55
| <SubStack> | it's all because I like using modules from npm |
| 23:35:00
| <SubStack> | because there are a lot of those |
| 23:35:32
| <SubStack> | and they have familiar apis |
| 23:35:58
| <devaholic> | SubStack: thanks that work, had PATH issues |
| 23:40:06
| <SubStack> | awesome |
| 23:46:59
| <devaholic> | works even |
| 23:47:12
| <devaholic> | .. and now im watching star wars in ascii form |
| 23:47:15
| <devaholic> | https://gist.github.com/2299368 |
| 23:58:33
| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [free: 9] |
| 23:59:17
| <Raynos> | is that the testling user stats? |