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03:15:51  <Raynos>its quiet
03:15:57  <Raynos>what event am I missing
03:48:53  <niftylettuce>EVERYTHING AND NOTHING
03:48:54  <LOUDBOT>HE CAN DO ANYTHING STOP ARGUING WITH ME
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04:30:20  <Raynos>I need to buy a domain
04:30:30  <Raynos>for this peer to peer cloud service I'm building
04:30:40  <Raynos>I GIVE YOU THE CLOUD, YOU BUILD THE PEER TO PEER APPS
04:30:41  <LOUDBOT>ADOBE READER X
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05:06:35  <Raynos>dominictarr: https://github.com/Raynos/discovery-network/blob/master/example/chat/static/index.js
05:14:25  <Raynos>substack: ^
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06:49:41  <maxogden>substack: jsforcats.com
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07:23:35  <substack>maxogden: hahaha excellent
07:33:02  <Raynos>http://raynos.stream-chat.jit.su/
07:33:20  <Raynos>A chat app build from a static server using a distributed peer discovery network and doing peer to peer communication
07:33:24  <Raynos>peer to peer web apps are TODAY
07:33:57  <substack>peering!
07:34:19  <Raynos>join the room named raynos
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07:42:07  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/stream-chat#the-interesting-bits
07:42:10  <Raynos>I documented it up!
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08:51:15  <maxogden>paul_irish: seeking hand drawn art featuring cats and computers in case you have any for http://jsforcats.com
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09:16:22  <paul_irish>maxogden: computer-less: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lobsterrags/2116947528/in/set-72157603691378389 .. but still looking
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09:17:06  <maxogden>paul_irish: ahahahaha
09:17:24  <paul_irish>this image set is basically all sorts of amazing
09:17:31  <paul_irish>hey baby http://www.flickr.com/photos/lobsterrags/4264616705/in/set-72157603691378389
09:18:02  <paul_irish>almost: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lobsterrags/4405010723/in/set-72157603691378389
09:18:18  <maxogden>i want to know this person
09:18:38  <maxogden>this kind of sums up twitter for me http://www.flickr.com/photos/lobsterrags/4559809244/in/set-72157603691378389/
09:18:57  <maxogden>http://www.flickr.com/photos/lobsterrags/4800006728/in/set-72157603691378389
09:19:02  <maxogden>i wish these were CC licensed
09:19:17  <paul_irish>yea
09:19:31  <paul_irish>i emailed the illustrator to ask for permission once.
09:19:33  <paul_irish>sec.
09:19:44  <maxogden>hah
09:20:00  <paul_irish>http://paulirish.com/i/89ba20.png
09:20:44  <maxogden>DAMN
09:20:59  <paul_irish>yeahhh :(
09:21:17  <maxogden>"hello art lady, i come from the future where intellectual property flows freely through the veins of the internet"
09:22:01  <paul_irish>Hahahaha. yes!
09:22:25  <maxogden>she sucks at giffing though
09:22:26  <maxogden>http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6713218217_ccae48ba21_o.gif
09:22:42  <maxogden>vs substack http://substack.net/images/penny_farthing/penny_farthing.gif
09:23:08  <maxogden>substack: you are the clear winner here
09:24:23  <paul_irish>^^
09:28:56  <maxogden>paul_irish: im kinda sad this lady hasnt broken out of her animal heads on hipster bodies aesthetic yet
09:29:10  <paul_irish>heheh
09:30:10  <paul_irish>well she might as well corner the market for non-permissively licensed animal head hipsters
09:31:51  <maxogden>haha
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15:21:21  * substacknaps
15:21:55  <substack>technical debt now nearly under control
15:22:09  <substack>ssh key management and testling badges coming soon
15:23:16  <dominictarr>substack, is it possible to separate structural style from presentation style in yarnify
15:23:18  <dominictarr>?
15:23:37  <substack>how do you mean?
15:24:01  <dominictarr>like, can i use a generic component, with just enough style to make it displayable
15:24:11  <dominictarr>but then give it my own "look"
15:24:39  <substack>nope
15:24:42  <dominictarr>hmm
15:24:46  <substack>that is a limitation I have been pondering
15:25:11  <dominictarr>I would like to be able to go require('button').style({color: 'red'})
15:25:25  <substack>oh you can do that
15:25:40  <substack>it's just that your api will need to export a style function
15:26:21  <dominictarr>right, that should be simple enough.
15:26:24  <substack>I was more thinking about applying style sheets to wrapped elements
15:26:31  <substack>which is a different problem
15:26:41  <substack>but one that I can probably solve using this approach: https://github.com/substack/split-css
15:26:48  <dominictarr>you mean external style sheets?
15:27:20  <substack>external yes
15:27:31  <substack>external either wrapped with yarnify or taken from some other resource
15:28:18  <dominictarr>yeah. the prefix will be getting in the way then.
15:29:05  <dominictarr>was thinking that you could make a middleware that resolved images, etc, from deep in node_modules folders.
15:29:29  <substack>either that or bundle the images into the css directly
15:29:36  <dominictarr>as text?
15:29:45  <substack>base64-encoded
15:29:50  <substack>with url()
15:29:59  <dominictarr>that seems like a bad idea to me.
15:30:20  <substack>probably
15:30:44  <substack>another approach could be a command-line tool that copies static assets from modules into a static directory
15:30:50  <dominictarr>but you could just have static/img.jpg in the folder
15:31:20  <dominictarr>and then in your html <img src=static/img.jpg />
15:31:42  <substack>and the src could get automatically resolved to the mounted location, yes
15:31:53  <substack>there's already a dom traversal to check the ids and classes anyhow
15:32:04  <dominictarr>and yarnify could change it to: <img src/img.jpg?source=__dirname />
15:33:03  <dominictarr>the good thing about this is that with the prefixes, you can actually have version conflicts.
15:34:05  <dominictarr>although, you _could_ have make the prefix "[email protected]_"
15:39:16  <dominictarr>substack, hey! instead of prefixing all the classes could you just wrap each component in a class for that module?
15:39:34  <dominictarr>instead of PREFIX_button {...}
15:40:01  <dominictarr>MODULE button { }
15:40:21  <dominictarr>that would make the css apply only inside that widget
15:42:16  <dominictarr>you'd just have to wrap the module's html in a span with class=MODULE
15:44:20  <substack>classes outside could interfere with definitions in modules though
15:45:12  <substack>the module thing is already done to "apply" a css file to an element
15:46:00  <guybrush>like when you use moduleA inside a moduleB (dom-wise) moduleA-css will effect moduleB
15:46:40  <guybrush>oh the other way, moduleB will effect moduleA
15:52:54  <dominictarr>how does that work, won't they get different prefixes?
15:54:53  <guybrush>a {color:red} b {font-weight:bold}
15:54:54  <guybrush><div class="a">a<div class="b">b</div></div>
15:54:59  <guybrush>b will be red and bold
15:55:39  <guybrush>so yarnify avoids this by prefixing everything
15:55:45  <guybrush>b will only be bold
15:56:25  <dominictarr>oh, hey you can do && in css like this
15:56:38  <dominictarr>.WIDGET.button {...}
15:56:45  <dominictarr>(with no white space)
15:57:42  <dominictarr>you could even apply version ranges like this
15:58:15  <dominictarr>.WIDGET.M0.m4.p4.button { ... }
15:58:25  <guybrush>so there is no difference to the prefix-approach
15:58:35  <dominictarr>this is a bit more readable
15:58:42  <guybrush>yes
15:58:54  <dominictarr>also, you can still style them as you like.
15:59:26  <dominictarr>hmm, although I think you'd need to add the module class to every element in the widget.
15:59:31  <guybrush>right, it would make styling modules from outside easier
16:00:05  <guybrush>but with prefix-stuff it makes sure you dont polute the "global namespace"
16:00:38  <dominictarr>yeah, I'm looking for a pattern that is analogous to how node_modules works.
16:02:06  <dominictarr>hmm, maybe expand a rule like this:
16:02:31  <guybrush>i thought about that for some time now too, and i am not sure if node_modules-way is the right way for "style-modules"
16:02:31  <dominictarr>.WIDGET.button, .WIDGET .button { ... }
16:03:13  <dominictarr>yeah. because css just doesn't support that kind of data structure.
16:03:14  <guybrush>since styling a webpage is all about global stuff
16:03:41  <guybrush>but i am not sure, having multiple css-modules now is a pain in the ass
16:03:49  <guybrush>like bootstrap jquery-ui ...
16:03:58  <dominictarr>also, you normally want to style elements WITHIN a given element
16:04:24  <dominictarr>where in js, a var in a closure can only effect scopes OUTSIDE of it.
16:04:51  <dominictarr>unless, an inner closure specifically exposes a class.
16:04:57  <dominictarr>var i mean.
16:05:13  <dominictarr>hmm, what if there was a local var type thing in css?
16:05:30  <guybrush>currently i use stylus
16:05:40  <dominictarr>that is kinda what we want.
16:05:40  <guybrush>with all sorts of css-things (jquery, bootstrap, ..)
16:05:47  <guybrush>and shim everything
16:06:06  <dominictarr>hmm. maybe the answer it to put structural style inline.
16:06:42  <guybrush>https://github.com/LearnBoost/stylus/blob/master/docs/import.md
16:06:44  <dominictarr><div style="...">like this</div>
16:06:47  <guybrush>this is like node-require
16:06:56  <guybrush>it supports index.styl
16:07:41  <dominictarr>yeah. but that is only a local require.
16:07:53  <dominictarr>I want reusable components.
16:08:08  <dominictarr>so it's gotta get style from node_modules
16:10:23  <dominictarr>hmm, or maybe you could let modules have .css files, and you'd have some way to bundle them all into a single .css
16:12:29  <guybrush>yes i think it would be cool to have a field in the package.json where one can define the location of css
16:12:41  <guybrush>and npm install could build the css
16:13:15  <guybrush>but it would be nice to have a js-api too (alternatively)
16:14:14  <dominictarr>I think this is something like what tj is proposing regards components
16:14:17  <guybrush>not sure how that would work exactly (server/client-side api? build/change in runtime)
16:14:35  <dominictarr>although he wants to put them in a not npm.
16:15:16  <guybrush>and a component.js (altough thats not clear yet)
16:15:48  <guybrush>i would like to have everything in npm
16:16:35  <guybrush>and just extend package.json
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16:17:41  <guybrush>in the end, the problem is not trivial at all and it will depend a lot on what the community decides to actually use
16:18:26  <dominictarr>one question: what would it be like in a perfect world?
16:18:53  <guybrush>it would be boring i guess :D
16:19:24  <dominictarr>what if, instead of just writing out html as it was
16:20:08  <dominictarr>you could define a html module up the top, and then go "<button_widget name=whatever>content</button_widget>
16:20:16  <dominictarr>and it would insert your widget.
16:21:50  <dominictarr>did I just invent templates?
16:22:10  <dominictarr>maybe just make a templater that respected node_modules
16:23:10  <guybrush>i once built a thing which parses a json which stores context params selectors and stuff and build javascript
16:23:59  <guybrush>and then i had a webinterface to actually draw that json
16:24:27  <dominictarr>I don't understand. what is the usecase?
16:24:28  <guybrush>every element and everything had its own id="uniqId"
16:24:53  <guybrush>building parts of websites which interact with each other
16:25:26  <dominictarr>can you be more concrete?
16:26:42  <guybrush>well its not worth the discussion, just wanted to tell about my efforts in building such things :p
16:26:51  <dominictarr>what did the context params refer to?
16:26:53  <guybrush>i will search the code and put it on github
16:29:13  <guybrush>https://gist.github.com/3388157
16:30:04  <guybrush>so you end up with reusable json which represents "widgets"
16:31:51  <dominictarr>looking
16:32:29  <dominictarr>is that runnable?
16:32:50  <guybrush>no i am looking into the source to pick out all the stuff for runnable thing
16:32:57  <guybrush>a had a webinterface to draw this json
16:33:15  <guybrush>so you can save the json and use it in another json and stuff
16:33:27  <guybrush>very much like http://idflood.github.com/ThreeNodes.js/
16:34:02  <dominictarr>brb, just going to a different cafe
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