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00:05:42  <mike-d>dominictarr: A HAMMER!!!
00:23:19  <isaacs>THESE are not the hammer.
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00:42:58  <mike-d>isaacs: not suggesting this for node, just asking about the concept, what do you think about a creating a stream that supports multiple args like event emitter? in my case the need came up for an http router that uses streams so you need (req, res), raynos and substack have gone the with duplexing, any thoughts?
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01:36:10  <Raynos>mike-d: why not duplex?
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01:45:07  <mike-d>Raynos: just exploring the options, express seems a little too heavy, duplex is fine, like the (req,res) style of http, my thinking is surely flawed because i'm a little green here
01:45:15  <Raynos>mike-d: routil
01:45:28  <Raynos>mike-d: https://github.com/Raynos/routil#small-libraries
01:45:43  <Raynos>I've curated a list of useful things
01:47:16  <mike-d>Raynos: totally get that, still getting my head around this, it's not entirely new to me because C kinda works this way, watching and learning
01:47:55  <mike-d>I love small, and love pluggable without the baggage of a framework
01:49:00  <mike-d>you guys are on the right track for sure, just trying to get there on my own so I can make informed decisions
01:49:13  <Raynos>o/
01:52:01  <Raynos>domenic: where do you live
01:56:34  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 29]
01:59:31  <mike-d>raynos: I should probably read up on pipes eh
01:59:41  <Raynos>mike-d: pipes?
01:59:48  <Raynos>they are simple
02:00:05  <Raynos>mike-d: https://gist.github.com/3791742#pipedest-options
02:00:06  <Raynos>I lied.
02:00:09  <Raynos>they are kind of complex
02:00:27  <mike-d>raynos: LOL deceptively simple
02:00:52  <mike-d>but I do love the concept
02:02:39  <Raynos>mike-d: https://github.com/isaacs/readable-stream is the 0.9 implementation
02:03:05  <Raynos>mike-d: https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/v0.8/lib/stream.js#L33 is the 0.8 implementation
02:03:15  <Raynos>the 0.9 implementation is beastly. Blame isaacs for the complexity :P
02:05:18  <mike-d>I was thinking of req, res as one thing to pipe, but I don't think that's really the case because they are two streams, I just need to do some reading and get my head around this
02:07:37  <mike-d>Raynos: http://tldp.org/LDP/lpg/node10.html#SECTION00721000000000000000 now this is starting to make sense, but I will need to look at _write, _read and see what node is up to
02:08:13  <mike-d>Raynos: remember watching you and isaacs discuss this a day or so ago, but in the context of a transform
02:08:16  <Raynos>mike-d: https://github.com/dominictarr/stream-spec
02:08:32  <Raynos>mike-d: the notion of having a stream of streams is really meta. its not a good starting place
02:08:41  <Raynos>when manipulation req & res you just want to do it simply
02:08:55  <Raynos>req.pipe(manipulateReqDataAndReturnNewData).pipe(res)
02:11:00  <mike-d>now that might be a eureka, req.pipe(handler).pipe(res)
02:12:30  <mike-d>raynos: if I have interpreted what you just said correctly, that was a huge help
02:12:56  <Raynos>yeah it's that simple
02:13:01  <Raynos>Well it's not the handler
02:13:09  <Raynos>well it kind of is
02:14:00  <Raynos>it's the handler for only that req,res pair
02:14:35  <Raynos>req
02:14:35  <Raynos> // 0.8 echo stream
02:14:35  <Raynos> .pipe(through(function (chunk) { this.emit("data", chunk) }))
02:14:35  <Raynos> .pipe(res)
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02:25:24  <mike-d>i'm just using the term handler for the transform
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02:28:12  <Raynos>I use transformation
02:28:24  <Raynos>mike-d: https://github.com/Raynos/proxy-stream#example
02:28:34  <Raynos>proxy stream shows a bunch of possible transformation you can do on a stream of data
02:29:02  <Raynos>mike-d: Also punch / hit / shout at me when I give you conflicting information, confusing information or I give you the really complex stuff first and the simpler stuff later.
02:31:27  <mike-d>Raynos: am I heading in the right direction here? https://gist.github.com/3824594
02:36:54  <Raynos>i have no idea :D
02:36:58  <Raynos>what that even is
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02:43:22  <Raynos>BLARGH.
02:43:23  <LOUDBOT>IF YOUR ANSWER BEGINS WITH "BUT I JUST NEED TO ... YOU ARE WRONG"
02:43:28  <Raynos>the read-stream queue interface is a writable stream >_<
02:43:45  <Raynos>I have somehow made read-stream converge onto being a readable writable stream split in two and crazyness
02:45:09  <mike-d>Raynos: ?
02:45:32  <Raynos>isaacs: the fact that I've organically grown https://github.com/Raynos/read-stream/blame/master/lib/queue.js to be like a writable stream means that the writable stream interface is good.
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03:10:35  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/promise-stream
03:10:40  <Raynos>Promises are just streams but silly!
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03:58:08  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/promise-stream#same-example-using-just-streams-and-domains
03:58:10  <Raynos>domains are badass
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08:02:08  <substack>gross: https://github.com/substack/sorta/pull/2
08:38:23  <substack>dominictarr: one other amusing thing about williams jennings bryan is that he was the special prosecutor during the scopes trial
08:38:35  <dominictarr>scopes trial?
08:39:05  <substack>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_Trial
08:42:16  <substack>right now I'm using pause-stream as a flow-control lib
08:42:52  <substack>inside of the ondata I p.pause() then when an internal stream ends in the ondata I p.resume()
08:43:09  <dominictarr>haha, nice.
08:43:29  <dominictarr>"using flow control for control flow"
08:43:34  <dominictarr>good talk title
08:48:11  <dominictarr>to the air port!
08:50:25  <substack>¬°aeropuerto!
08:50:45  <substack>going there in about an hour
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09:52:01  <substack>https://github.com/substack/sorta/pull/2#issuecomment-9099741
09:52:04  <substack>more component stupidness
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13:17:07  <mbalho>hahahahahahahahah lower bottom right http://i.imgur.com/0CPlE.png
13:17:09  <mbalho>substack: o/
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17:00:09  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
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17:15:40  <pkrumins>cash money
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17:41:25  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 173.203.67.76 (free3)
17:48:30  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 173.203.67.76 (free3)
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18:33:10  <Raynos>isaacs: How do you deal with re building binary dependencies on machines?
18:34:11  <isaacs>substack: landed on master. https://github.com/joyent/node/commit/016afe21aeb8e373e26b3554640cd5ff5f336b02
18:34:38  <isaacs>Raynos: npm rebuild, or just install the binary deps globally, and set up the NODE_PATH so you can get at them
18:34:58  <Raynos>isaacs: I check node_modules into git. How do I avoid checking in those binary modules?
18:35:07  <isaacs>Raynos: or install them globally, and make `npm link my-binary-dep` a part of your build process.
18:35:16  <isaacs>Raynos: put `build` in your .gitignore file.
18:35:20  <pkrumins>Raynos: we've microsoft visual studio 2010 installed on all windowses
18:35:22  <isaacs>Raynos: at the top level
18:35:58  <isaacs>Raynos: it's actually difficult because there's so many solutions.
18:35:59  <pkrumins>Raynos: i made the binary modules to compile with vs2010 and node-gyp
18:36:04  <isaacs>Raynos: but really, any of them are fine.
18:36:28  <isaacs>pkrumins: the more common part of the problem, though, is that you don't want to compile on every release, since binary deps change pretty rarely.
18:36:40  <isaacs>pkrumins: and you don't want to check in binary artifacts.
18:36:40  <Raynos>isaacs: it's as easy as putting build in gitignore?
18:36:44  <pkrumins>isaacs: hooray for 'end' fix!
18:36:45  <isaacs>Raynos: yes.
18:36:52  <Raynos>that works for everything?
18:36:56  <isaacs>pkrumins: no on v0.8, though. :(
18:37:14  <pkrumins>no=not?
18:37:16  <pkrumins>:(
18:37:26  <isaacs>pkrumins: we can't make subtle changes like that on stable branches. i can practically guarantee someone somewhere is depending on that incorrect behavior.
18:37:30  <isaacs>pkrumins: yeah, it is sad.
18:37:36  <Raynos>isaacs: I can tolerate recompiling on every releases
18:37:37  <pkrumins>sad panda
18:37:40  <isaacs>pkrumins: api stability is why we can't have nice things.
18:37:43  <Raynos>its a big improvement from re npm installing on every release
18:37:51  <pkrumins>isaacs: i know.
18:38:04  <isaacs>Raynos: you cna install it globally, and then run `npm install --link` on deploy
18:38:12  <isaacs>Raynos: if your other deps are all bundled, then it'll only pick that one up
18:38:25  <isaacs>Raynos: and if it's installed globally, then it's just a symlink, very fast.
18:38:52  <isaacs>Raynos: or you can install it globally and do the NODE_PATH trick
18:38:55  <isaacs>i mean, that's fine.
18:38:58  <pkrumins>isaacs: re binary: we've got it down to `npm install .` on our windows nodes. that just builds all the binaries and everything.
18:39:06  <pkrumins>we're moving to fleet on windowses as well
18:39:07  <isaacs>pkrumins: yeah, that's fine, too
18:39:29  <pkrumins>so we had to get `npm install .` working, otherwise cant move to fleet
18:39:39  <isaacs>pkrumins: it's tricky if you have very small zones. compiling libxml on 256MB ram is kind of painful
18:39:39  <isaacs>ok, gotta run.
18:39:39  <pkrumins>gotcha
18:39:41  <Raynos>Seperate question
18:39:41  <pkrumins>we've plenty of ram
18:39:50  <pkrumins>yeah?
18:39:51  * isaacswill return for stream kvetching in 2 hours.
18:39:55  <Raynos>when checking in node_modules. When do you run npm update and update your dependencies (cc Mikeal)
18:40:04  <pkrumins>never check in node_modules!
18:40:05  <isaacs>and npm kvetching :)
18:40:10  <Raynos>I feel worried about all the noise of upding dependencies and checking them in
18:40:11  <isaacs>pkrumins: always check in node_modules!
18:40:12  <pkrumins>mikeal was so wrong about checking in node_modules
18:40:20  <Raynos>pkrumins: npm install takes forever.
18:40:22  <isaacs>pkrumins: for deployed websites, it's really nice
18:40:25  <pkrumins>isaacs: no! it's such a nightmare if things inside of node_modules change!
18:40:45  <isaacs>pkrumins: npm isntall foo; git add node_modules/foo; git ci -m "[email protected]"
18:40:48  <pkrumins>isaacs: it only works for small projects
18:40:51  <isaacs>pkrumins: what's wrong with that?
18:40:58  <isaacs>pkrumins: right, so, have small projects ;)
18:41:02  * isaacsis now late. bye :)
18:41:16  <pkrumins>we've like 30 deps for testling
18:41:31  <pkrumins>isaacs: i can write an article about that
18:41:58  <pkrumins>isaacs: try `npm install [email protected]` and then see what happens with `git status`
18:42:11  <Raynos>isaacs: when do you update your deps and re check them in
18:43:29  <pkrumins>isaacs: if [email protected] removes files, you cant just `git add node_modules`, they will show up as missing
18:43:34  <pkrumins>isaacs: you've to resolve removed files.
18:44:03  <pkrumins>next there were other issues that fucking drove me nuts when i was doing these deploys and we had node_modules checked in.
18:44:16  <pkrumins>i can recreate it and i'll write an article about it.
18:44:40  <pkrumins>isaacs: it works only if you check in node_modules and like forget about any updates.
18:45:00  <pkrumins>Raynos: well how slow is nom install?
18:45:04  <pkrumins>pretty fast here
18:45:47  <Raynos>pkrumins: about 10 minutes here
18:45:55  <Raynos>pkrumins: also npm sometimes just fails
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18:55:35  <Raynos>pkrumins: yes there is a lot of git noise
18:55:44  <Raynos>pkrumins: but that's good. Thats a lot of shit on your app that changes
18:56:34  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 3, free: 47]
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19:01:40  <guybrush>i also tend to not check in node_modules
19:02:10  <guybrush>git repos grow like hell, but i am not sure yet whats the best way
19:02:13  <guybrush>need more opinions
19:02:21  <guybrush>i have pretty big dep-tree...
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19:02:58  <guybrush>also you have to strugle with .gitignore-files in other node-modules
19:03:07  <bartek>Hi there. Anyone around for some browserling support? I'm trying to use the SSH tunnel on another machine but it just asks me for a password and fails. My existing machine never does, so I have a feeling I uploaded an SSH key at one point to browserling or similar, but .. I can't find the information anywhere
19:04:32  <pkrumins>Raynos: how many deps do you have?
19:04:35  <pkrumins>bartek: i'm around
19:05:35  <pkrumins>bartek: can you send me your ssh public key of the other machine?
19:05:42  <bartek>pkrumins: Cool, do you have any insight into my issue? I searched the site for a FAQ about public keys but nothing
19:05:45  <pkrumins>bartek: i'll add it to our ssh server
19:05:48  <bartek>pkrumins: One sec.
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19:13:31  <delvarworld>browserling IE vms seem to be effed, trying to go to any page is showing a zscaler login form
19:13:40  <delvarworld>the vm also opens with administrative tools window in the foreground
19:13:48  <pkrumins>was about to reply to your mail
19:14:02  <pkrumins>sorry for the delay
19:14:05  <pkrumins>fixing this right now
19:14:36  <delvarworld>pkrumins: is that directed at me? I didn't send an email
19:14:55  <pkrumins>delvarworld: well you sent a message?
19:15:24  <pkrumins>someone sent a message about that
19:16:05  <pkrumins>delvarworld: i see it's a lot of people having this issue
19:16:11  <pkrumins>lots of mails about it coming in right now
19:17:29  <pkrumins>delvarworld: can you tell me which browser it was?
19:18:09  <delvarworld>it was ie9
19:18:19  <pkrumins>alright let me see now
19:22:31  <pkrumins>delvarworld: crap i cant see which VM does that
19:22:42  <pkrumins>none of them had that screen on or zscaler login form
19:22:52  <pkrumins>delvarworld: you logged in or using free acc atm?
19:22:57  <delvarworld>free acct
19:23:01  <pkrumins>ah
19:23:07  <pkrumins>i was checking dev VMs
19:23:22  <pkrumins>ok i can uneff this easily now that i know where this is happening
19:26:53  <pkrumins>delvarworld: it's fixed
19:26:59  <Raynos>pkrumins: 90+
19:27:03  <pkrumins>thanks for bringing my attention to this
19:27:07  <pkrumins>Raynos: wow. okay.
19:27:13  <pkrumins>Raynos: what are you working on btw?
19:27:21  <Raynos>websites
19:27:31  <Raynos>we have 90+ deps because we never cleaned our package.json list >_<
19:27:33  <pkrumins>delvarworld: crap it's still zscaler
19:27:35  <Raynos>we dont use half of them anymore
19:27:38  <pkrumins>delvarworld: they changed the proxy!
19:27:42  <pkrumins>fixing it again.
19:27:46  <delvarworld>those bastards
19:27:53  <pkrumins>burn them
19:28:05  <pkrumins>Raynos: oic
19:28:10  <pkrumins>i bet there was a tool that finds all deps
19:28:27  <Raynos>we need to deprecate this thing
19:28:30  <Raynos>its a massive app
19:28:35  <pkrumins>and outputs package.json deps string
19:28:36  <Raynos>the kind of thing that would make substacks eyes bleed
19:28:46  <pkrumins>gotcha
19:31:07  <mike-d>Raynos: you listening to nodeup?
19:31:13  <Raynos>nope
19:31:15  <Raynos>is it live?
19:31:20  <Raynos>I mean yes, I listen to all of them
19:31:30  <Raynos>I should join in more with them
19:31:32  <mike-d>there talking your fav topic
19:31:48  <mike-d>yes it's live now
19:31:54  <Raynos>tahts crazy
19:31:58  <Raynos>must be a berlin special
19:32:07  <mike-d>they missed sunday
19:32:41  <Raynos>kinda busy
19:32:46  <Raynos>will listen to it later
19:38:00  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.174.109 (free2)
19:38:29  * delvarworldpart
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19:43:30  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 173.203.67.76(free3)
19:44:01  <pkrumins>free2 is up now
19:44:05  <pkrumins>fixing free3
19:48:51  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) [email protected] successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
19:48:51  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
19:49:57  <pkrumins>193 customers
19:56:34  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 7, free: 56]
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20:21:51  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) [email protected] successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
20:21:52  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
20:28:25  <pkrumins>194!
20:28:29  <pkrumins>doing a blog post at 200!
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20:56:34  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 8, free: 44]
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21:43:30  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 173.203.67.76(free3)
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21:56:35  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 34]
22:11:36  * substackin berlin
22:12:25  <dominictarr>substack, I'm beginning to understand what you mean about preparing slides early.
22:13:15  <pkrumins>o/
22:13:40  <dominictarr>but, bed now...
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22:20:49  <substack>isaacs: great news @ that fix for duplex
22:21:27  <isaacs>substack: of course, the fix is in 0.9, and i'm about to make that pipe() function obsolete :)
22:26:39  <Raynos>substack: how do you handled orphaned node processes with fleet
22:26:45  <Raynos>lets say fleet doesnt kill something cleanlyu
22:26:53  <Raynos>how do I know which one it is so I can kill it manually
22:27:39  <pkrumins>we're still moving to fleet for browserling
22:27:43  <pkrumins>for testling it's not an issue
22:28:08  <Raynos>im trying to find the ps of the thing running right now
22:28:12  <Raynos>its our node load balancer.
22:28:23  <pkrumins>that will be difficult
22:28:32  <pkrumins>you can monitor for processes right now
22:28:34  <pkrumins>but that's about it
22:28:34  <Raynos>want to deploy a new version but need to make sure that if something goes wrong like the old one is orphaned, how do I find it and kill it
22:29:39  <pkrumins>you cant easily
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22:30:47  <Raynos>:(
22:38:05  <pkrumins>i'll actually be adding many features to fleet
22:38:11  <pkrumins>in the next few weeks as i move browserling to fleet
22:38:35  <pkrumins>and this is a planned feature, as we want to iterate quickly so moving to new versions has to work really well
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22:40:08  <Raynos>:)
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22:56:34  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 7, free: 26]
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23:18:02  <guybrush>pkrumins: do you plan to change starting apps? currently they are just child-processes which die when the parent dies (since they are not detached currently i think)
23:18:24  <guybrush>thats basically the problem i see with fleet, and why i dont use it yet
23:19:25  <guybrush>even when de child-processes get detached, when the parent dies there is no way to communicate with the former children
23:19:35  <pkrumins>no i dont plan changing that
23:19:47  <pkrumins>just dont let the parent die!
23:20:12  <guybrush>i see, i am really a nub regarding these things - so i just wonder
23:21:29  <guybrush>also how do you handle security? i mean its not tls and pushover is plaintext too
23:21:38  <guybrush>just iptables-rules?
23:21:54  <pkrumins>it's plain text for now
23:21:56  <pkrumins>no iptables rules
23:22:02  <dools>IPTABLES RULES
23:22:02  <LOUDBOT>SHE HAS THROWN THE ELECTION TO MCCAIN
23:22:41  <guybrush>thx for sharing how you doing it :D cant wait to see where fleet goes
23:22:46  <pkrumins>guybrush: fleet has a secret key but it gets sent as plain text
23:22:50  <pkrumins>sure
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23:35:21  <guybrush>oh Raynos regarding the orphaned processes, there is https://npmjs.org/package/ps-tree
23:35:30  <guybrush>though i cant find the git-repo for it
23:35:53  <guybrush>and 0.0.2 is leaking a variable globally, so i just copypasted the code into my stuff
23:36:28  <guybrush>it helps you parsing the process-tree on unix
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23:43:31  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 173.203.67.76(free3)
23:56:34  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 34]