00:03:35  <dominictarr>that is a good idea
00:04:24  <dominictarr>powering these robots is important. must free them from the power grid.
00:04:58  <dominictarr>maybe they can roam the streets like hobos and plug into power sockets in libraries and railway stations.
00:05:19  <dominictarr>or maybe they can earn their keep by delivering packages
00:05:24  <dominictarr>or hunting rodents.
00:05:40  <dominictarr>maybe they could find people free parking spaces.
00:05:54  <dominictarr>and people could flick them a dime.
00:06:04  <dominictarr>(virtually)
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00:25:21  <fotoverite>http://xkcd.com/ is amazing today
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00:47:51  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 7, free: 19]
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01:20:48  <CoverSlide|TPFR>haha looks like anytime i go to wikipedia/simple
01:21:14  <CoverSlide|TPFR>err simple.wikipedia
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01:47:51  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 31]
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02:25:46  <Raynos>oh hi
02:26:04  <Raynos>substack: have you written any node programs that interact with brain wave things?
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02:36:08  <substack>Raynos: negative
02:37:09  <substack>dominictarr: robots buying other robots through production of useful seems much more viable than robots that make copies directly themselves
02:37:38  <dominictarr>absolutely, bootstrap via captialism.
02:37:42  <substack>Raynos: I have had an EEG hooked up to my brain though
02:38:02  <dominictarr>also, invest the profits into kickstarter projects for self replication etc.
02:38:17  <substack>dominictarr: the cool part is that if that model of robot production was successful, the end state would resemble robots producing copies anyhow
02:38:23  <substack>just in a distributed, specialized fashion
02:38:25  <dominictarr>also, HIRE humans to do the manual labor they are so good at.
02:38:52  <substack>dominictarr: you could abuse corporate personhood
02:38:57  <substack>that's how robots are going to get rights
02:39:00  <dominictarr>like packaging stuff, taking photos and putting it on ebay
02:39:04  <dominictarr>OKAY OKAY OK AY
02:39:05  <LOUDBOT>THEN I GUESS THAT ONE BEER AND YOUR SIX SHOTS REALLY TOTALLED YOU THEN
02:39:09  <substack>they will just form tiny LLCs or C-corps
02:39:15  <dominictarr>so this is my friend tom's idea
02:39:26  <dominictarr>make a company
02:39:43  <dominictarr>that then starts a robot company as a wholly owned subsidary
02:40:05  <dominictarr>then liqudate the parent company and sell it to the child company.
02:40:15  <substack>and put language in the corporate charter forbidding certain actions from the parent to its subsidiary
02:40:21  <substack>haha
02:40:35  <substack>isn't the child company an asset though?
02:41:04  <dominictarr>maybe have another layer of indirection in there
02:41:15  <dominictarr>CIRCULAR REFERENCE
02:41:16  <LOUDBOT>DAMMIT JIM, THERE ARE WHOVIANS EVERYWHERE!
02:46:44  <dominictarr>okay, cool, I've got a random word generator. It uses markov chains on a stream of words to generate english (or whatevs) seeming words
02:46:55  <dominictarr>hair
02:46:56  <dominictarr>kippled
02:46:56  <dominictarr>dists
02:46:56  <dominictarr>ambda
02:46:56  <dominictarr>curitations
02:46:58  <dominictarr>Azers
02:47:00  <dominictarr>equivelouses
02:47:02  <dominictarr>dain
02:47:04  <dominictarr>hing
02:47:06  <dominictarr>snarial
02:47:08  <dominictarr>circhiation
02:47:10  <dominictarr>succings
02:47:12  <dominictarr>Cayer
02:47:14  <dominictarr>Nicheddentistaborthaliso
02:47:16  <dominictarr>claneumaness
02:47:35  <substack>plausible except the last few
02:47:51  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 21]
02:49:03  <dominictarr>you can give it more context. that was 3 letter context.
02:49:17  <dominictarr>suspenservadiness
02:49:17  <dominictarr>stark
02:49:17  <dominictarr>transferee
02:49:17  <dominictarr>nix
02:49:17  <dominictarr>dutianjing
02:49:18  <dominictarr>successes
02:49:19  <dominictarr>walkers
02:49:21  <dominictarr>eman
02:49:23  <dominictarr>rilked
02:49:27  <dominictarr>squith
02:49:29  <dominictarr>arabilitary
02:49:31  <dominictarr>ticksandcuffs
02:49:33  <dominictarr>hussed
02:49:35  <dominictarr>overs
02:49:37  <dominictarr>gible
02:49:40  <dominictarr>daisy
02:49:42  <dominictarr>renuncing
02:49:43  <dominictarr>freelanomatograph
02:49:45  <dominictarr>kobe
02:49:48  <dominictarr>^^ 4 letters
02:50:27  <substack>use this generator to come up with module names
02:51:31  <substack>dominictarr: so I'll be busy tomorrow hauling junk out of stackhouse and vacuuming
02:52:17  <substack>early at least
02:52:20  <dominictarr>substack, also use it to write READMEs
02:52:25  <dominictarr>substack, you want a hand?
02:52:35  <substack>that could help if you want!
02:53:10  <dominictarr>sure no problem!
02:53:13  <substack>johnnny is going to drop me off around 9:30 or so and the property manager people will stop by in the afternoon
02:53:44  <substack>mbalho: do you have any spare bikes/
02:54:50  <dominictarr>substack, so I land at 7:30 am, I can meet anywhere near BART.
02:56:39  <Raynos>substack: do you actually?
02:57:23  <Raynos>I want some EEG hardware
02:57:27  <Raynos>and see whether I can write a node driver for it
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03:12:21  <substack>dominictarr: stackhouse right near macarthur bart
03:12:30  <substack>I'll be there before 10am
03:12:45  <dominictarr>okay, I'll meet you there if I can.
03:13:01  <substack>dominictarr: will you be in town for https://tito.io/voxer-events/hard-hack ?
03:13:11  <dominictarr>yup!
03:13:31  <dominictarr>actually, I just brought the package, so I get whatever goodies that is.
03:13:47  <substack>I should show up with a plastic tub full of acid and some copper-clad
03:13:56  <dominictarr>I'm trying to find a myvu too.
03:14:09  <substack>neat!
03:14:23  <dominictarr>I might have to get the older version though.
03:14:35  <substack>I'm going the byoh route
03:14:58  <substack>sourcing my hardware list tonight then
03:17:32  <substack>dominictarr: sweet! I'm curious about the myvu
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03:23:07  <substack>dominictarr: http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G19133
03:23:42  <dominictarr>"impressing others that you are a researcher"
03:24:19  <dominictarr>maybe hard hack should throw one of those into the bundle
03:25:53  <substack>dominictarr: you could get some black rubber gloves, a lab coat, and splash goggles as your everyday clothes
03:27:29  <dominictarr>then everyone would KNOW I am crazy.
03:28:24  <dominictarr>I need a 'normal person' disguise.
03:28:56  <dominictarr>or maybe one piece jump suit with wearable computer.
03:31:11  <substack>a speed suit
03:31:23  <substack>for the aspiring superscientist on the go
03:31:41  <st_luke>need to make a resume
03:31:46  <st_luke>what an un-fun task
03:36:29  <substack>make it a text file and print it with a dot matrix font on line-feed paper
03:36:49  <substack>markdown -> dot matrix converter go
03:40:04  <st_luke>the worst part of job interviews is trying to pretend you really want to work at a particular place
03:40:15  <st_luke>trying to pretend you want to work
03:45:48  <substack>but you do want to work!
03:45:59  <substack>just on particular things that suit your interests
03:46:17  <substack>what do you want to be building?
03:46:38  <Raynos>st_luke: ...
03:46:50  <Raynos>find a fun job
03:47:09  <dominictarr>st_luke, just quit and work on whatever is interesting for a few months, then you will get a much more interesting job.
03:47:51  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 28]
03:48:19  <dominictarr>if necessary, go some place where the living is cheap. perhaps mexico?
03:48:37  <Raynos>dominictarr: that's an interesting idea
03:48:39  <Raynos>How do you do that
03:48:43  <Raynos>but then don't do nothing all day
03:49:07  <Raynos>im afraid of degrading into a sack of shit that does nothing
03:49:08  <dominictarr>I don't know... how do you do nothing all day?
03:49:54  <dominictarr>I think I did that once, but then I got bored.
03:49:56  <Raynos>sit around on the internet
03:49:58  <Raynos>dicking around
03:50:02  <jjjjohnnny>JOIN A HACKER MONESTARY
03:50:02  <LOUDBOT>I CANT TAKE ALL THESE EYES STARING AT ME
03:50:18  <Raynos>jjjjohnnny: where do I find one?
03:50:29  <jjjjohnnny>WORK FOR THE GOD OF GOOD
03:50:29  <LOUDBOT>IF YOUR ARGUMENT CAN BE REASONABLY DEBATED USING CLICHE QUOTES FROM POPULAR LITERATURE, MAYBE YOU SHOULD RETHINK IT.
03:50:53  <dominictarr>so, before I got into hacking stuff, this second phase - (the first one I was a teenager making quake mods)
03:51:00  <jjjjohnnny>REJECT MIDDLE CLASSICISM
03:51:00  <LOUDBOT>ALSO TRY NOT TO BITE YOUR TONGUE
03:51:20  <substack>I was big into 3d modeling when I was younger
03:51:25  <substack>good thing I didn't have a very good computer
03:51:32  <Raynos>I was big into playing games and being a sack of shit when I was younger
03:51:38  <dominictarr>but this time, I was also considering going to cairns in Australia and building a boat and sailing it to Asia
03:51:44  <substack>I did write some particle systems and terrain generators
03:51:53  <substack>in middle school
03:52:10  <substack>that was how I learned how sin and cos work
03:52:22  <dominictarr>but, I decided that building crazy computer stuff is way way harder, so I did this instead.
03:53:09  <dominictarr>Raynos, if you would just become a sack of shit and do nothing it's because you are a sack of shit, but a sack of shit with a whip.
03:53:11  <Raynos>dominictarr: you are my kind of crazy
03:53:15  <dominictarr>pointed at you.
03:53:19  <jjjjohnnny>i didnt learn to code until i was 25 26 or 27 depending
03:53:28  <Raynos>dominictarr: well I am a sack of shit with a whip!
03:53:35  <Raynos>but I at least can dream of being of value
03:53:41  <Raynos>whilst taking the whip of love
03:54:31  <dominictarr>okay, so I think you need a specific goal to be highly motivated.
03:54:58  <Raynos>i dont do "feeling motivated"
03:55:10  <dominictarr>it doesn't need to be that clearly defined, but you do need to be working on a good problem.
03:55:28  <substack>many good problems
03:55:49  <jjjjohnnny>yeah i make many good problems
03:55:51  <dominictarr>feeling motivated is when you can't stop your self from doing something because you are so compelled to see whether it will even work.
03:56:20  <substack>I'm motivated by destructive tendencies
03:56:21  <dominictarr>it really helps if no one else is working on it I think.
03:56:29  <substack>I want things like zookeeper to not exist
03:56:46  <dominictarr>client side MVC is totally not one. I don't know why people try to build those.
03:57:02  <Raynos>well yes
03:57:30  <dominictarr>it must be fresh people that come along and think "all these other attempts are stupid, but I am different. I will find the true answer"
03:57:47  <substack>build an anonymous webrtc gossip-based hash ring file sharing network
03:57:47  <Raynos>yes
03:58:42  <Raynos>I should go back and fix my api for webrtc
03:58:46  <Raynos>then build a shim
03:58:51  <Raynos>then actually build p2p apps
03:58:55  <substack>yes
03:58:57  <substack>build things
03:58:59  <dominictarr>you have to have a vision.
03:59:02  <Raynos>BUILD EVERYTHING
03:59:03  <LOUDBOT>THOSE WERE THEIR NAMES
03:59:07  <dominictarr>actually node itself started like this
03:59:49  <dominictarr>ryah quit his job because he was obsessed with the problem of building realtime upload progress bars.
04:00:09  <jjjjohnnny>raynos screwn webrtc just make psp happen in node
04:00:11  <dominictarr>node.js is a framework for building uploads with progress bars, basically.
04:00:14  <jjjjohnnny>p2p
04:00:21  <substack>node-browser
04:00:28  <Raynos>jjjjohnnny: I want to do browsers
04:00:28  <substack>web browser written in node
04:00:40  <substack><script type="node">
04:01:25  <dominictarr>you kinda have to mess around until you find a Mad Science Project.
04:01:33  <Raynos>i want to write node style programs in browsers without servers
04:01:38  <dominictarr>or maybe it has to find you.
04:02:06  <dominictarr>anyway, it's not like going to a job interview, or doing a masters thesis.
04:02:14  <jjjjohnnny>i want to see the wizards game prototype made into something awesome
04:02:24  <dominictarr>there is no academic supervisor in mad science.
04:02:34  <st_luke>there are some companies in nyc that use node that I will have to look into
04:03:29  <jjjjohnnny>i wonder if kickstater can get me paid 150,000 to teach programming for a year
04:03:36  <dominictarr>st_luke, best thing is to quit your job right before you go to a conference.
04:03:57  <jjjjohnnny>show what market rates can do for education
04:04:12  <dominictarr>the wizards game would be a great kickstarter project.
04:04:49  <substack>wizards game could be a great way to virally get people to learn programming
04:05:00  <substack>with more refinement and level-progression
04:05:47  <jjjjohnnny>there are many games / stories / adventures that can be written on top of it
04:08:26  <dominictarr>jjjjohnnny, basically, my ambition for wizardz is to make a game that would teach like, 3rd world kids to program.
04:08:38  <substack>st_luke: oh strange I wasn't following you on github for some reason!
04:09:08  <dominictarr>just like the "the young ladies illustrated primer" in The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson
04:09:14  <dominictarr>(highly recommended+
04:09:15  <dominictarr>)
04:10:20  <st_luke>substack: it's all good
04:14:23  <substack>computing needs another MECC
04:15:08  <substack>did any of you play games like number munchers and oregon trail on apple IIs and IIIs when you were little?
04:15:23  * ikjoined
04:15:27  <ik>substack: heck yes
04:15:30  <substack>\m/
04:15:38  <ik>number muncher was boss
04:15:40  <substack>I got so good at number munchers
04:15:43  <ik>and math blaster in later years
04:15:43  <substack>yeah excellent game
04:15:47  <substack>fuckin' purple monsters
04:15:56  <jjjjohnnny>i played some market game
04:16:24  <jjjjohnnny>where you bought and sold fruits and tried to make a profit
04:16:34  <jjjjohnnny>and oregon trail of course
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04:18:40  <substack>ik so I need to source some copper-clad, pic microcontrollers and a usb programming cable, and assorted doo-hickery
04:18:55  <ik>substack i have a bunch of copper clad
04:19:01  <ik>should i fax it to you
04:19:02  <ik>or what
04:19:06  <substack>can you teleport it?
04:19:09  <substack>fax machine is broken
04:19:09  <ik>neg
04:19:51  <ik>substack: parts-express iirc has some cheap copper clad
04:19:58  <substack>also I remember you did some etching with chemical wizardry that preserves the etchant
04:20:03  <substack>oh sweets
04:20:05  <ik>cupric chloride
04:20:21  * st_lukequit (Remote host closed the connection)
04:20:23  <substack>going to etch the shit out of some copper-clad
04:20:24  <ik>it's mad awesome but get an aquarium pump or something to put in an etching tank which is not your main storage bucket
04:20:39  <ik>smaller the tank the better so long as your copper remains submerged
04:20:56  <substack>got it
04:20:58  <ik>and the pump, if you get an even bubble distribution (!!SCIENCE WORDS!!), will speed things up a fucklot
04:21:25  <substack>what about temperature?
04:21:34  <substack>do you do it at room temperature or heat it up
04:21:47  <ik>i do it at room temperature but i hear you can speed things up by heating it a little
04:21:49  <substack>the etching I was party do was heated in a microwave
04:21:57  <ik>you don't need to
04:22:02  <ik>the etching process itself is plenty quick
04:22:04  <substack>cool
04:22:11  <ik>the big time-suck is transferring your mask onto the copper clad
04:22:21  <ik>and doing all of that setup
04:22:28  <jjjjohnnny>can you hand draw them?
04:22:30  <substack>toner transfer with a laser printer?
04:22:31  <ik>and cleaning/re-doing if you fucked up
04:22:32  <substack>jjjjohnnny: yep
04:22:36  <substack>I used inkscape last time
04:22:53  <ik>jjjjohnnny: you can draw them with an industrial sharpie but i never got good results with that
04:23:00  <ik>some of the mask would always wash off
04:23:15  <ik>and you obviously don't get good resolution. may as well be using perfboard at that point
04:23:23  <ik>Tue Nov 13 23:23:22 EST 2012
04:23:25  <ik>yikes
04:23:26  <Raynos>for legal reasons I need to leave the country
04:23:31  <Raynos>this means I need a weekend adventure
04:23:32  <Raynos>somewhere
04:23:35  <Raynos>probably canada
04:23:41  <ik>raynos did you kill a guy
04:23:45  <Raynos>any recommended super awesome adventures?
04:23:51  <Raynos>no I get to come back
04:23:55  <Raynos>I only need to go for a weekend
04:24:02  <ik>immigration / residency?
04:24:09  <Raynos>yeah
04:24:11  <Raynos>immigration bullshit
04:24:13  <ik>i mean
04:24:18  <ik>you could go to another country and kill a guy
04:24:20  <jjjjohnnny>i only use inductive wiring with dynamic FM circuits
04:25:17  <jjjjohnnny>Raynos: Jamaica
04:25:32  <Raynos>That could work too
04:25:34  <substack>jjjjohnnny: e-hipster
04:25:35  <Raynos>Oh
04:25:38  <Raynos>I could kill someone
04:26:14  <substack>visit alberta
04:26:18  <substack>it's like the texas of canada
04:26:24  <substack>pretty sure it's legal to kill people there
04:26:30  <substack>don't even bother checking, pretty sure on this one
04:27:24  <jjjjohnnny>problem is theres no people there
04:27:45  * tphummelquit (Quit: tphummel)
04:27:52  <jjjjohnnny>don't even bother checking, pretty sure on this one
04:28:26  <Raynos>:D
04:28:28  <Raynos>lol
04:28:30  <Raynos>you guys
04:29:44  <substack>dominictarr: now that your bay area adventure is imminent, /join #nerdtracker
04:30:02  <dominictarr>what is nerdtracker?
04:30:05  <substack>that's where the coffee/hacking/taco coordination happens
04:30:24  <substack>and there's a bot that max wrote that plugs into foursquare and gather
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04:33:09  <dominictarr>Raynos, what sort of visa are you on?
04:33:27  <dominictarr>does it have to be an non-adjacent country?
04:33:28  <Raynos>h1b
04:33:35  <Raynos>i dont think so
04:33:43  <Raynos>I just need to leave and re-enter to get an I94
04:33:44  <dominictarr>you have a propper visa
04:33:52  <dominictarr>go to mexico!
04:34:22  <dominictarr>when do you have to go
04:34:23  <dominictarr>?
04:34:37  <dominictarr>you could go to mexico as a day trip
04:35:16  <substack>go to the jungle with all the olmec heads
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04:35:33  <dominictarr>substack, what is nerdtracker?
04:35:38  * AvianFlujoined
04:35:40  <dominictarr>join #nerdtracker
04:37:19  <dominictarr>Raynos, also I've heard very good things about costa rica.
04:37:57  <substack>ik: oh sweet I have located a world wide web page describing cupric chloride in great detail http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/
04:38:04  <Raynos>i want to go this month
04:38:15  <Raynos>I feel like I should go visit someone I know in canada
04:38:21  <substack>woo it has stochiometry on it
04:38:23  <ik>substack: yea i used that website a lot
04:38:36  <substack>oh man I used to be so good at stochiometry
04:38:53  <substack>but I'm all out of practice now since I haven't used it in 10 years
04:39:51  <substack>ik: oh shit I might happen to have a source of 90% oxygen I could feed into this system
04:40:05  <ik>substack: air works well enough
04:40:09  <substack>roger
04:40:17  <ik>just bubble it for a while with the aquarium pump
04:40:31  <ik>little bit of hydrogen peroxide is fine to start off but you don't wanna keep adding that or it'll water it down eventually
04:41:43  <substack>noted
04:41:56  * shykeschanged nick to zz_shykes
04:44:33  <jjjjohnnny>Raynos: Canada is winter now
04:45:35  <Raynos>Oh fuck
04:45:38  <Raynos>its going to be so fucking cold
04:45:40  <Raynos>;_;
04:45:43  <Raynos>I am go to mexico
04:45:52  <Raynos>i dont know anyone in mexico
04:46:07  <Raynos>Who wants a trip to mexico!
04:46:42  <jjjjohnnny>I DO
04:47:02  <jjjjohnnny>not likely tho
04:48:00  <Raynos>well it needs to happen this months
04:50:47  <jjjjohnnny>are there methods used during http responses?
04:53:32  <Raynos>?
05:00:04  <jjjjohnnny>are http methods used in the response?
05:00:42  <ik>DAYCHANGE!
05:03:04  <Raynos>what response?
05:03:42  * LOUDBOTquit (Remote host closed the connection)
05:04:01  <jjjjohnnny>the repsonse from the server to an http request
05:04:13  * _ritchjoined
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05:04:35  <jjjjohnnny>im wondering if NAT punching requires one to mimic an http response
05:06:06  <Raynos>in webrtc?
05:06:17  <Raynos>as far as I know
05:06:23  <Raynos>a http response is just headers and body
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05:10:07  <dominictarr>Raynos, I could come with you to mexico for a weekend!
05:10:16  <Raynos>sounds like fun!
05:10:32  <Raynos>1/2 dec or 24/25 nov?
05:11:01  <dominictarr>1/2 dec sounds fine.
05:11:30  * LOUDBOTjoined
05:11:43  <Raynos>cool
05:11:50  <Raynos>not sure where to go in mexico
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05:12:59  <dominictarr>tijuana?
05:14:45  <Raynos>sounds good enough to me!
05:14:56  <dominictarr>http://wikitravel.org/en/Mexico
05:15:02  <dominictarr>has all the answers!
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05:36:18  <substack>ik: seems to be a better price http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G18750
05:36:46  <substack>or there's http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17455
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05:37:12  <substack>unsure if the scissor-cut stuff will be strong enough but I could always glue it down after soldering and drilling
05:38:27  <ik>substack: i use what they call 'tin snips'
05:38:40  <ik>to cut it
05:39:03  <ik>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Tinsnips.jpg like $10 at a hardware store
05:39:11  <ik>what are you building?
05:39:25  <substack>assorted circuits
05:39:37  <substack>mostly just circuits with a microcontroller to drive some motors through a relay bank
05:39:45  <substack>and perhaps some blinkenlights
05:39:47  <substack>nothing fancy
05:39:48  <ik>for world domination or
05:39:52  <ik>what
05:39:58  <ik>are you making an irl loudbot
05:39:58  <substack>household automation
05:40:37  <substack>like why do I need to get up and walk all the way across the room to toggle the lights
05:41:10  <substack>why can't I just curl -X POST -d 'lights=off' 10.0.0.8
05:41:24  <substack>explain this to me
05:41:47  <ik>the other solution is to not have lights, i did that for a while
05:41:59  <ik>you get pretty good at remembering where everything on the floor is once the sun goes down
05:42:07  <substack>could work
05:42:32  <dominictarr>just have an infrared setting on your heads up display.
05:42:43  <dominictarr>easy.
05:47:51  <substack>not all of us have myvus in the mail!
05:51:24  <dominictarr>well, maybe you could just activate the spotlight on the utility gauntlet.
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05:54:03  <Raynos>dominictarr: SF -> Tijuana for 1/2 is about $900/pp
05:54:19  <dominictarr>wow, that is expensive
05:54:39  <dominictarr>what about to san deigeo and then bus to the border.
05:56:10  <Raynos>i need to re-enter america by plane to get an I94
05:56:35  <Raynos>a trip to vancouver is cheaper, int the $500 range I think
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05:57:18  <Raynos>as cheap as $400
05:57:22  <Raynos>also takes like half the time
05:57:27  <Raynos>because its not a 8hour flight
05:57:40  <Raynos>but then canada is cold and less exotic
05:58:33  <ik>i'm imagining that the numbers you all are quoting are prices for a garbage bag full of bath salts in various mexican border towns
05:58:51  <ik>because actually reading your conversation for comprehension would probably be pretty dull
05:59:23  <Raynos>plane tickets
05:59:35  <ik>yep
06:03:05  <substack>Raynos: how much is a ticket to yellowknife
06:03:28  <substack>or better yet iqualuit
06:03:30  <Raynos>850.
06:03:47  <Raynos>iqualuit is 2.5k
06:03:51  <Raynos>2.5K BIETCH
06:03:52  <LOUDBOT>HEY YOU WHERES THAT WEBSITE I ORDERED, HMM?
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06:09:24  <dominictarr>why is this so expensive, it's only just over there a little bit
06:09:40  <dominictarr>you could fly to europe and back for 900
06:10:16  <Raynos>probably
06:10:17  <Raynos>lets see :D
06:10:35  <Raynos>berlin is 1000$
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06:14:06  <Raynos>dominictarr: outbound american flights suck basically
06:14:10  <Raynos>what you want is a ryanair :P
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06:14:23  <Raynos>ryanair is fly from X to Y within europe < $100
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06:15:15  <dominictarr>yeah, I brought a bunch of flights from zuric to seattle, sf, new york, and back to zurich for $1000
06:15:28  <Raynos>thats impressive
06:15:36  <Raynos>that must have been a deal or just done in advance
06:15:44  <Raynos>how long are you in SF for?
06:15:48  <dominictarr>A few weeks in advance
06:15:50  <dominictarr>1 month.
06:16:02  <dominictarr>maybe it was about a month?
06:16:07  <dominictarr>(in advance)
06:16:25  <Raynos>I see
06:16:37  <dominictarr>it's probably cheaper to go to frankfurt that is the main hub, or heathrow
06:16:48  <dominictarr>berlin will be a connecting flight.
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06:17:09  <dominictarr>(on the cheap ones at least)
06:17:46  <dominictarr>actually, dublin might be worth a try too. there is actually US immigration on the ireland side, strangely enough.
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06:18:47  <Raynos>?
06:18:55  <dominictarr>http://www.kayak.co.uk/#/flights/SFO-DUB/2012-11-23/2012-11-30
06:19:13  <dominictarr>SFO to DUB return for 754
06:19:23  <Raynos>dublin is the cheapest :P
06:20:53  <dominictarr>mexico city return for 400 http://www.kayak.co.uk/#/flights/SFO-MEX/2012-11-23/2012-11-30
06:26:08  <Raynos>well I dont mind too much where I go tbh
06:26:12  <Raynos>everything is an adventure
06:26:23  <Raynos>preferably not someone really cold though
06:26:50  <dominictarr>mexico city!
06:27:48  <Raynos>Sounds fun
06:27:58  <Raynos>question about scuttlebutt/events
06:28:10  <Raynos>will it replay all events ever emitted every time you connect to it?
06:30:17  <dominictarr>no, only the events that you don't already know about.
06:30:51  <dominictarr>TODO: set expiry on events, so they get forgotton after given days, hours, minutes, whatever.
06:31:21  <Raynos>but dont I know about zero events
06:31:27  <Raynos>every time I join?
06:36:05  <substack>hooray I made an easel out of a big art clipboard, a c-clamp and a tripod
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06:37:39  <st_luke>resume done. that wasn't so bad.
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06:38:32  <dominictarr>Raynos, the events that you have already received are replicated. you could put in a PR for an expire feature
06:38:48  <dominictarr>or maybe you don't even want to use scuttlebutt for this
06:38:54  <Raynos>Well
06:38:56  <Raynos>im not sure
06:39:35  <Raynos>i think I should not use scuttlebutt for events
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06:40:11  <Raynos>I should use remote-events
06:40:13  <Raynos>or emit-stream
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06:55:16  <Raynos>https://gist.github.com/4070724
06:55:25  <Raynos>dominictarr, substack: Improved the webrtc api ^
06:58:16  <dominictarr>there is a few small things you should change to make it more idiomatic
06:58:45  <dominictarr>like PeerConnectionPool should return an event emitter
06:59:00  <dominictarr>and that should emit ('connection', stream)
06:59:06  <Raynos>Oh yes
07:02:32  <dominictarr>you should call "peers" "introducer"
07:03:02  <dominictarr>that is pretty much what it does, and makes sense in a human context.
07:03:39  <Raynos>it's actually overloaded to do two things
07:03:43  <Raynos>introduce peers
07:03:47  <Raynos>and send offers and answers around
07:05:00  <dominictarr>that IS introducing peers
07:05:30  <dominictarr>an offer is like "hey I want to meet" and answer is like "okay, lets meet at this coffeeshop"
07:06:10  <dominictarr>I don't see why you need setRemote, createAnswer and setLocal
07:06:12  <Raynos>https://gist.github.com/4070724
07:06:37  <dominictarr>can't you just go createAnswer(offer) -> stream
07:06:38  <Raynos>dominictarr: to make the peerConnection abstraction more cleanly match the peer connection API
07:07:01  <Raynos>I'd rather do the dance fully and stick closer to the peer connection API
07:07:12  <dominictarr>okay.
07:07:15  <Raynos>and then abstract all that shit away at the pool level you can listen and connect on
07:07:59  <dominictarr>okay have that, but have sugar. else someone else will just write a nice module that wraps yours.
07:08:22  <dominictarr>why is createAnswer async?
07:08:34  <Raynos>because the peer connection api has an async createAnswer
07:08:45  <dominictarr>what IO is it doing?
07:08:49  <Raynos>no idea
07:09:25  <dominictarr>you should know the answer to that question.
07:10:01  <Raynos>http://dev.w3.org/2011/webrtc/editor/webrtc.html#widl-RTCPeerConnection-createAnswer-void-RTCSessionDescriptionCallback-successCallback-RTCPeerConnectionErrorCallback--failureCallback---null-MediaConstraints-constraints---null
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07:10:18  <Raynos>its an async function that gathers SDP information, constraints and any ice candidates
07:10:25  <dominictarr>and you should name your listener onConnection not connection
07:10:29  <dominictarr>more obvious
07:11:12  <dominictarr>right, okay.
07:11:15  <Raynos>btw another weird thing
07:11:21  <Raynos>is that data channels have names
07:11:26  <Raynos>and you can create multiple per connection
07:11:33  <Raynos>so data channels are multiplexed for you
07:11:44  <dominictarr>yeah, I heard about that.
07:11:52  <Raynos>so the on connection handler can be called multiple times per actual connection
07:12:24  <dominictarr>right.
07:12:31  <Raynos>which is weird
07:12:44  <dominictarr>and I hope the stream has a name or meta property
07:13:11  <Raynos>currently I do cb(stream, remoteId, name)
07:13:23  <Raynos>maybe that should be a meta property on the stream
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07:15:30  <Raynos>https://gist.github.com/4070724 another update
07:16:20  <Raynos>one of the things thats bullshit
07:16:26  <Raynos>is that you cant pass your own id to listen
07:16:35  <Raynos>as you need your id in the connect call aswell
07:16:47  <Raynos>and the api has this weird options thing for the id in the pool constructor
07:17:11  <Raynos>maybe I should just remove the on connection sugar from the pool connector
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07:24:22  <Raynos>dominictarr: thanks for helping out with the API. It's a lot better now
07:24:51  <dominictarr>Raynos, no problem.
07:29:38  <dominictarr>the great thing about when everything you own fits into carry-on is that you can always leave packing to the completely last minute.
07:31:21  <Raynos>:D
07:33:52  <Raynos>dominictarr: I'm probably going to book new mexico tickets tomorrow
07:33:52  <substack>the main thing I regret not having while traveling is a pen to fill out customs forms
07:34:06  <substack>some airports don't even have pens out next to the forms
07:34:18  <substack>they set you up in an impossible situation
07:34:59  <Raynos>substack: https://gist.github.com/4070724
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07:37:30  <substack>reading
07:45:56  <Raynos>I fixed the api
07:46:03  <Raynos>To be more node idiomatic
07:46:07  <dominictarr>"okay, well I guess I live in the airport now" [start setting up your tent]
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07:46:26  <Raynos>dominictarr: :D
07:48:58  <substack>listening to japanese pop music on 6MHz
07:51:23  <substack>on my 50 year old shortwave set
07:54:11  <substack>need to get acclimated
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08:05:42  <dominictarr>okay, having a nap befor my flight! see you guys tomorrow!
08:10:26  <fotoverite>Wait when do you get in tomorrow?
08:10:43  <fotoverite>Thought you didn't get in till the 15th
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08:13:04  <substack>Raynos: the emitter.on(id + ':offer', cb) stuff is a bit weird
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10:06:29  <juliangruber>central non-standard components like a pubsub thing with persistent data instead of events and symlinks and stuff is so wrong
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12:57:05  <juliangruber>that's basically putting globals in a datastructure sophisticated enough to not call it silly
13:19:06  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 28]
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14:19:06  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 39]
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15:19:06  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 6, free: 58]
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15:40:30  <mbalho>substack: i have the tandem but it needs a flat fixed
15:40:50  <substack>mbalho: should be ok actually, stackhouse has some extra bikes
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16:08:53  <fotoverite>what everyone up to today?
16:09:01  <pkrumins>give-away!
16:10:15  <pkrumins>give-away is active!
16:10:21  <pkrumins>check my latest tweet!
16:11:57  <juliangruber>pkrumins I retweeted but also already ordered :O
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16:14:27  <pkrumins>juliangruber: no problems, i can refund you!
16:14:34  <pkrumins>it's a free shirt for you buddy!
16:14:39  <juliangruber>pkrumins: sweet :)
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16:15:07  <juliangruber>pkrumins substack: one with the new seaport logo would be awesome too
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16:15:29  <pkrumins>juliangruber: yup!
16:15:34  <pkrumins>we shall do all the tees
16:19:06  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 50]
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17:51:53  <substack>dominictarr: 3829 west street
17:52:01  <dominictarr>hey
17:52:05  <substack>ahoy!
17:52:06  <fotoverite>Yay you made it!
17:52:18  <fotoverite>Out at ritual coffee. Would love to hack on NPM today
17:52:32  <dominictarr>I knocked on your do just before, but I didn't want to wake you up, so I went to cafe.
17:52:40  <dominictarr>s/do/door
17:52:54  <dominictarr>fotoverite, you still in the BA?
17:53:02  <fotoverite>SF
17:53:10  <CoverSlide|TPFR>BA Barraccus?
17:53:22  <substack>dominictarr: oh whoops
17:53:26  <dominictarr>BA as in BART Simpson.
17:53:27  <substack>dominictarr: are you at dejana?
17:53:34  <dominictarr>fup
17:53:38  <dominictarr>YUP
17:53:39  <fotoverite>I'm on the bart. Valencia
17:53:51  <dominictarr>DAMN DVORAK
17:53:52  <LOUDBOT>TIME TO GO BUY A BRA AND CREEP OUT THE LADIES IN VICTORIA'S SECRET.
17:54:08  <CoverSlide|TPFR>fup fup fup
17:54:21  <dominictarr>dvorak is weird because the way the keys are organized they typos are phonetic.
17:54:40  <substack>dominictarr: ok I'll just be vaccuuming
17:54:44  <substack>and I have a bike you can use
17:54:47  <substack>and a u-lock for it
17:54:56  <st_luke>I'LL JUST BE VACUUMING
17:54:56  <LOUDBOT>AFTER THE FULL MOON
17:54:56  <dominictarr>which makes you look like a complete retard, instead of really smart which is what you should look like for using dvorak.
17:55:05  <dominictarr>OH SWEET
17:55:05  <LOUDBOT>CAN YOU DO THIS FOR ME APEIRON
17:55:28  <st_luke>dominictarr: I tried dvorak for a couple hours 2-3 years ago when I had a lot of free time
17:55:59  <st_luke>it gave me a sad
17:56:13  <dominictarr>st_luke, nodejitsu paid me to learn dvorak.
17:56:19  <substack>dominictarr: take this, it will help you on your journey: `o=o
17:56:23  <fotoverite>Same it gives me sad
17:56:26  <st_luke>dominictarr: lmao are you serious
17:56:27  <substack>`o=o === bicycle
17:56:38  <devendram>tests on testling.com seem to be taking too much time, where can I find information/help to debug this
17:56:39  <fotoverite>Nodejitsu pays for a lot of stupid shit. :D
17:56:42  <dominictarr>that is, I was billing them at the time....
17:56:48  <st_luke>dominictarr ++
17:57:03  <substack>devendram: you can try adding t.log() statements
17:57:11  <substack>if you don't do t.end() your tests will just sit there
17:57:11  <st_luke>dominictarr: I sort of liked dvorak but realized it would probably take a significant amount of time for me to get up to the same speed I can do on qwerty, that was the dealbreaker.
17:57:20  <dominictarr>substack, I'll just finish my coffee and then be right over!
17:57:28  <substack>ok sweet
17:57:32  <substack>there's still internet over here
17:57:39  <pkrumins>substack: we could grep for 't.end()' to detect a missing t.end()
17:57:42  <substack>you can help me illegally dump some junk
17:57:44  <dominictarr>st_luke, the best thing about dvorak is now no one else can use your computer.
17:57:49  <pkrumins>for simple tests that is that use 't.end()'
17:58:02  <substack>pkrumins: well the new testling pivot won't have this problem
17:58:24  <substack>pkrumins: we could just show a warning message if nothing has been printed in N seconds
17:58:26  <pkrumins>but we will still have testling?
17:58:29  <substack>yep
17:58:34  <substack>we'll still have testling around
17:58:58  <devendram>for some browsers it finishes fast
17:59:15  <devendram>but for browsers like iexplore/9.0 , its taking long time
17:59:18  <dominictarr>st_luke, dvorak is still pretty silly though. like why should i have to sit at a desk to use a computer?
17:59:25  <substack>devendram: try with '&noinstrument` in the url
17:59:29  <dominictarr>that is just historical baggage.
17:59:29  <st_luke>dominictarr: yeah, fuck desks
17:59:32  <substack>sometimes the instrumentation gets screwy
17:59:37  <st_luke>I might head to SF for Hard Hack
17:59:44  <substack>woot!
17:59:46  <st_luke>that's the right kind of event
17:59:53  <dominictarr>st_luke, have you read this: http://jacobinmag.com/2012/04/against-chairs/
18:00:02  <substack>st_luke: maybe you could send your resume to ninjablocks
18:00:07  <substack>they're using node on hardware devices
18:00:08  <dominictarr>on how chairs are a tool of oppression.
18:00:21  <substack>I think Nexxy might be working there remotely
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18:00:39  <dominictarr>st_luke, yes come to hard hack!
18:01:01  <substack>awww yiss
18:01:17  <st_luke>dominictarr: yes, I've read that. it's a good article.
18:01:17  <substack>I still need to order some copper-clad, servos, relays, transistors, leds, PICs
18:01:30  <dominictarr>the furniture a free man needs is a hammock.
18:01:32  <substack>need to email my old mad science professor to see where I can source some of these parts online
18:01:51  <fotoverite>You guys staying oakland all day?
18:02:27  <substack>fotoverite: I'll be in oakland finishing cleaning out stackhouse then doing some oakland hacking
18:02:35  <substack>and/or taco establishment patronage
18:02:47  <fotoverite>I'm up for taco establishment patronaging
18:04:03  <st_luke>d3 would be awesome to use for visualizing all of the feedback from hardware
18:08:31  <dominictarr>substack, be right around.
18:09:03  <substack>cool
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18:18:52  <fotoverite>So i still don't see how to sit without chairs
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18:19:06  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 62]
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18:39:58  <juliangruber>dominictarr substack: authoritee is finished https://github.com/juliangruber/authoritee
18:42:23  <juliangruber>or rather, working
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18:46:00  <CoverSlide|TPFR>no project is ever "finished"
18:46:10  <CoverSlide|TPFR>except if it's
18:46:14  <CoverSlide|TPFR>abandonded
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18:59:38  <jjjjohnnny>didnt need to drive to san jose today
19:00:12  <jjjjohnnny>but didnt know until I got here
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19:18:33  <juliangruber>CoverSlide|TPFR and that's its perfection, that it is never perfect
19:19:06  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 41]
19:24:12  <fotoverite>So UUID and npm?
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19:35:10  <substack>some apis are actually perfect for what they do
19:35:38  <substack>they tend not to have side effects
19:36:18  <fotoverite>Stackhouse clean and clear?
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19:45:24  <juliangruber>substack, examples?
20:04:08  <st_luke>"Political rights do not exist because they have been legally set down on a piece of paper, but only when they have become the ingrown habit of a people, and when any attempt to impair them will meet with the violent resistance of the populace."
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20:13:57  <jjjjohnnny>st_luke: whats that fron
20:14:00  <jjjjohnnny>from
20:14:18  <st_luke>anarcho syndicalism
20:14:49  <jjjjohnnny>como?
20:14:53  <st_luke>but it abstracts nicely to more than just political things
20:16:37  <dominictarr>st_luke, link?
20:16:57  <st_luke>I just ordered it on amazon
20:17:11  <st_luke>but it's here: http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/rudolf-rocker-anarchism-and-anarcho-syndicalism
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20:19:06  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 50]
20:20:30  <fotoverite>Sounds like the social contract
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20:47:35  <jjjjohnnny>wow oakland city council winners only had between 4000-8000 votes
20:47:38  <jjjjohnnny>http://www.acgov.org/rov/current_election/index.htm
20:48:41  <AvianFlu>WHAT THE HELL I HAVE NODE IDEA WHAT I'M NOT DOING TOMORROWZ
20:48:42  <LOUDBOT>I'M GOING TO THE BAR TO GIVE AWAY IPOD TOUCHES AGAIN I HOPE I DON'T GET MUGGED LIKE LAST TIME
20:51:54  <CoverSlide|TPFR>287 votes for ron paul
20:51:59  <CoverSlide|TPFR>not bad
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21:44:53  <Raynos>Is anyone else solving the modular components + css thing
21:44:56  <Raynos>other then substack
21:45:04  <Nexxy>hai
21:45:08  <Nexxy>remotely me?
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21:48:26  <_sorensen>hey, you guys mind voting on our NKO entry? http://nodeknockout.com/teams/candy-wars
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21:53:45  <substack>Nexxy: aren't you working for ninjablocks in some capacity?
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22:11:04  <Raynos>https://gist.github.com/4075196
22:11:21  <Raynos>substack: what's the idiomatic browserify way to have require("x.css") return a string representation of the file?
22:11:31  <Raynos>is it to pipe the json stuff through browserify-files plugin ?
22:11:46  <Raynos>Nexxy: hi.
22:12:08  <Raynos>Nexxy: did you say you solved modular css?
22:12:09  <substack>Raynos: yes it doesn't exist yet
22:12:27  <Raynos>is my current hackery with extensions evil?
22:12:40  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/browserify-server/blob/master/index.js#L22
22:13:52  <Raynos>it would really help me if require("non js / json") returned the string representation by default so I can bundle html / css assets into JS.
22:14:26  <Raynos>telling users they have to pipe their browserify bundle through my plugin if they want to use my modules is bullshit
22:16:31  <Raynos>substack: this is also bullshit https://github.com/Raynos/wizard-game/blob/master/browser/ui/html/login.js
22:18:54  <tanepiper>sup' folks
22:19:06  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [free: 12]
22:24:58  <Nexxy>Raynos, hmm, I did al ong time ago before SASS/SCSS/LESS
22:26:21  <Raynos>I see
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22:34:07  <dominictarr>Raynos, checkout the shadow-dom : for modular UI components
22:34:25  <Raynos>shadow-dom doesnt solve modular CSS without style scoped
22:34:48  <Raynos>but yeah its badass
22:34:50  <Raynos>I mean its the DOM
22:34:55  <Raynos>so it will have a retarded API
22:35:02  <Raynos>but once someone abstracts it cleanly then yes badass
22:35:33  <dominictarr>yeah, it has encapsulation, that is the important thing.
22:36:53  <dominictarr>what we really want, is styling that works just like javascript scope.
22:37:48  <Raynos>we can hack around it for now
22:38:06  <Raynos>dominictarr: https://gist.github.com/4075196#file_head.js
22:39:32  <dominictarr>what is that meant to do?
22:39:36  <dominictarr>how does it work?
22:39:55  <Raynos>when you require a css file you get a string of the CSS content
22:40:19  <Raynos>if you want to put it in the DOM just do var s = document.createElement("style"); s.innerHTML = string; document.head.appendChild(s)
22:40:39  <Raynos>That's what a new style-sheet library should abstract into `document.head.appendChild(Sheet(string))`
22:40:50  <Raynos>if you want encapsulation or scope
22:41:10  <dominictarr>what is better about this than just adding a script tag?
22:41:11  <Raynos>then use a library that prefixes all the rules ( https://github.com/visionmedia/rework#prefixselectorsstring )
22:41:16  <dominictarr>link tag
22:41:31  <Raynos>dominictarr: the fact you don't have to download or server the third party css anywhere
22:41:39  <Raynos>serve*
22:41:48  <Raynos>the CSS doesn't have to go on a CDN
22:41:51  <Raynos>you just install it with npm
22:41:56  <Raynos>and its packaged into your browserify bundle
22:42:00  <dominictarr>this is a leaky abstraction.
22:42:08  <Raynos>why?
22:42:14  <dominictarr>I want to just go var w = require('widget')
22:42:20  <dominictarr>document.appendChild(w)
22:42:24  <Raynos>no you dont
22:42:34  <Raynos>you dont want a widget to have the side effect of injecting into the dom
22:42:35  <Raynos>what you want
22:43:16  <Raynos>https://gist.github.com/4075381
22:43:33  <Raynos>you should explicitely require a "theme" that returns a <style> elem you can inject
22:43:38  <dominictarr>you could have just typed that into chat
22:43:51  <Raynos>alternatively if you prefer you can download the theme and use <link href="style/widget/colors">
22:43:54  <dominictarr>linking to gists is annoying
22:44:08  <Raynos>6 lines in IRC is annoying
22:44:15  <dominictarr>that is basically what I just said
22:44:22  <dominictarr>(in your gist)
22:44:53  <dominictarr>you should just say "okay, yeah you want that, but also you want to add the theme to the head"
22:45:04  <dominictarr>then I wouldn't have to click on anything.
22:45:06  <Raynos>:D
22:45:13  <dominictarr>way easier
22:45:14  <Raynos>your right.
22:45:33  <Raynos>the important thing is you want a clean way to require a theme and add it to the head
22:45:40  <dominictarr>I agree, being able to style widgets is important
22:45:48  <Raynos>preferably one that allows modularization
22:45:57  <Raynos>which is where prefixing all style rules comes in
22:46:11  <dominictarr>adding to the head is incidental
22:46:17  <Raynos>incidental?
22:46:35  <dominictarr>I mean, I don't care what I do to get the theme.
22:46:55  <dominictarr>I just want composable styleable widgets
22:47:15  <Raynos>and you want ones that play nice
22:47:24  <Raynos>adding a style sheet transparently to the DOM isn't playing nice
22:47:33  <Raynos>Have you seen https://github.com/vic/prefix-css#use-case ?
22:48:45  <dominictarr>okay, that sounds good. I don't want to think about prefixes though.
22:48:51  <dominictarr>I think I want scopes
22:49:07  <dominictarr>I want to say apply this rule inside this section.
22:49:42  <chrisdickinson>the bad thing about that approach is that there's potential for a flash of unstyled content before the JS executes.
22:49:49  <dominictarr>like, adding style tag inline, and it applies to the end of the parent tag, and all children, unless there is another style tag that overrides it.
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22:50:06  <dominictarr>like how js vars shadow outer scopes.
22:51:11  <Raynos>dominictarr: we can't have scopes without waiting for browsers to implement them
22:51:35  <Raynos>chrisdickinson: thats why you apply the theme in a <head><script src="head.js"></script></head>
22:51:48  <chrisdickinson>hm
22:51:52  <Raynos>and append the actual widget in <body>...<script src="body.js"></script></body>
22:51:56  <chrisdickinson>which blocks downloading of further resources, unfortunately
22:52:13  <dominictarr>chrisdickinson, it's mainly about more maintainable UI that has reusable components.
22:52:45  <dominictarr>Raynos, I think this prefix thing is part of the way there... maybe if it is used in the right way it can provide scopes.
22:53:05  <chrisdickinson>easier for us is nice, but should (probably) be secondary to being a good experience for the end user.
22:53:31  <chrisdickinson>it'd be interesting if browserify could produce a bundle.js that could also be treated as valid css.
22:53:35  <dominictarr>easier for us will trickle down to the end user.
22:53:39  <chrisdickinson>interesting/maybe lulz-y.
22:53:39  <Raynos>chrisdickinson: style sheets in the <head> also blocks downloading
22:53:45  <Raynos>if you care about it use async flag
22:54:02  <chrisdickinson>stylesheets are downloaded in parallel afaik.
22:54:15  <Raynos>you get the flash of unstyled content on a fresh load anyway
22:54:22  <Raynos>when the style isnt in the cache
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22:54:30  <chrisdickinson>i haven't experienced that.
22:54:40  <Raynos>use a 2mb css file :D
22:54:47  <chrisdickinson>D:
22:54:54  <Raynos>Use a preprocessor that inlines all your images as base64
22:54:56  <Raynos>then gzip that
22:55:04  <Raynos>you get a 2mb css file and no image downloads ever
22:55:35  <chrisdickinson>if you could produce a bundle.js that is also valid css, then you could link to it as a stylesheet and (at the bottom of the body) link to it as JS -- though you'd have to find out of if the browser cache worked per-content type
22:56:01  <Raynos>thats crazy hackery
22:56:10  <Raynos>im trying to be pragmatic here
22:56:46  <Raynos>dominictarr: you can prefix on the fly in the client-side js with .<uuid> and transparently append the uuid as a class to the parent of the stylesheet node. Then all those apply to the children of the parent of the <style>
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22:57:26  <Raynos>dominictarr: the problem with that approach is that you have to do css munging on the client instead of bundling a pre-munged css file at browserify compile time.
22:57:43  <Raynos>but its an interesting approach though
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22:58:30  <Raynos>I guess its similar to how yarnify does things
22:58:34  <chrisdickinson>are you thinking that maybe you'd have another tool similar to browserify that would go through your files and find references to css files and automatically create one (prefixed) css file that you can put into the <head> element?
22:58:59  <Raynos>chrisdickinson: no
22:59:19  <chrisdickinson>hm.
22:59:28  <substack>Raynos: we could resurrect the object form for the browserify field
22:59:46  <Raynos>substack: that doesnt make sense.
22:59:52  <Raynos>can you repeat that sentence in english
23:00:00  <substack>"browserify" : { "plugin" : "foo" }
23:00:04  <substack>in package.json
23:00:08  <substack>well, also a main
23:00:18  <substack>"browserify" : { "plugin" : "foo", "main" : "browser.js" }
23:00:33  <substack>and plugin coul be an array
23:00:38  <substack>*could
23:00:49  <substack>"plugin" : [ "foo", "bar", "baz" ]
23:00:52  <substack>foo | bar | baz
23:03:49  <Raynos>substack: that means that if a user tries to browserify my module which has a peer dependency on a browserify plugin, browserify will install and run that plugin?
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23:19:06  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [free: 40]
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23:19:54  <substack>Raynos: it's not a peer dependency, it's the regular kind
23:20:52  <Raynos>substack: someone has to install browserify-fileify plugin
23:21:10  <Raynos>if I need to have that in my magic-widget module it's a peer dependency
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23:59:31  <substack>Raynos: no they don't, it would just be in the module's dependencies
23:59:45  <Raynos>substack: then requier wouldn't work