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00:35:31  <defunctzombie>substack: looking at tape, what I don't get is why the test harness/running part of the library is tied to the assertion library?
00:35:55  <substack>defunctzombie: because they are inherently coupled
00:36:06  <defunctzombie>I don't see why that is the case
00:36:18  <defunctzombie>for example in mocha I can use any assertion lib I want
00:36:18  <substack>when you do an assertion it creates some output in a particular format
00:36:28  <substack>which is part of what makes mocha so horrible
00:36:32  <defunctzombie>?
00:36:43  <substack>the point of TAP is that it doesn't matter how you generate it
00:36:54  <substack>you just generate a stream of output and something else can parse it
00:36:58  <defunctzombie>sure.. but mocha can have tap output just the same
00:37:10  <substack>if you want another assertion format just pick another library that can produce TAP output
00:37:41  <defunctzombie>I guess my point is that I would think the test harness could just be invoked with test("name", function(done) {});
00:38:06  <substack>but then the test harness would need to duck punch the assertion library
00:38:09  <substack>which is what mocha does
00:38:11  <substack>which is so fucking magical
00:38:36  <defunctzombie>I believe it just catches the assertion
00:38:40  <substack>because the test harness is modifying the environment and module system around the tests
00:38:42  <defunctzombie>it doesn't duck punch anything
00:38:45  <substack>it doesn't
00:39:04  <substack>and you can't even catch assertions inside callbacks and timeouts
00:39:17  <defunctzombie>true
00:39:23  <defunctzombie>fascinating
00:39:27  <substack>and exceptions are not what you want if you need to produce TAP output
00:39:35  <substack>because the runtime stops running on an uncaught exception
00:39:41  <defunctzombie>I do find tape simple and such
00:39:42  <substack>there is no way to nicely recover from that
00:39:55  <fotoverite>Well everything is better with duck punching
00:40:00  <defunctzombie>just not sure about the t variable
00:40:03  <defunctzombie>:p
00:40:12  <defunctzombie>want something that isn't one letter.. recommendations?
00:42:46  <defunctzombie>substack: so tape is meant to replace node-tap?
00:42:55  <Raynos>dominictarr: scuttlebutt badge is broken :(
00:43:10  <substack>defunctzombie: for tests that run in browsers
00:43:19  <substack>I'm still using node-tap for parsing too
00:43:23  <substack>tape is just the harness
00:43:32  <substack>node-tap has a producer, consumer
00:43:56  <dominictarr>Raynos, substack tells me there is a bug
00:43:58  <defunctzombie>but seems like tape does what tap does
00:44:05  <defunctzombie>unless I missed something :)
00:44:10  <substack>tap does a lot of things
00:44:37  <Raynos>substack: fixie fixie :D I want to see whether scuttlebutt works in browsers
00:46:00  <substack>tape does part of what tap does
00:46:24  <substack>but it focuses on just being a harness that produces TAP output and works in browsers
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00:47:50  <defunctzombie>substack: gotcha
00:47:57  <defunctzombie>seems simple enough code and nice
00:48:04  <defunctzombie>that is why I started asking questions
00:48:12  <substack>gotcha
00:48:13  <defunctzombie>I like when a little bit of code does something nice ;)
00:50:11  <defunctzombie>sounds like you need a module called cassetteplayer or something to run all the tests :p
00:50:20  <defunctzombie>in a given directory
00:52:02  <substack>you can just use tap for that
00:52:19  <substack>since tape produces tap output the `tap` script can read all your tape tests in
00:52:32  <substack>just `tap test/*.js`
00:52:48  <defunctzombie>so tap has no test harness?
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00:52:54  <defunctzombie>oh, I see
00:53:05  <defunctzombie>when you use require('tape') you use the tape harness
00:53:07  <defunctzombie>ok
00:56:16  <defunctzombie>substack: any recommendations for getting the location of the actual failed assertion?
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01:00:15  <mbalho>tw
01:00:28  <mbalho>DISREGARD
01:01:30  <substack>defunctzombie: working on that
01:01:39  <defunctzombie>gotcha
01:01:48  <defunctzombie>yea, I could see that being quite useful :)
01:02:04  <defunctzombie>just played around with some basic tape tests and that was the first thing I wanted to know
01:02:29  <substack>one of the problems is that browsers don't have good ways of doing that
01:02:43  <substack>except there is the onerror event that gives you the line
01:02:54  <defunctzombie>yea, I guess I was approaching it from the node.js side
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01:55:30  <rvagg>mbalho: http://youtu.be/e6Lku36IBSM
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01:56:09  <mbalho>haha yea they were in portland a couple of years ago
01:56:58  <rvagg>never been tempted to enter?
01:57:25  <mbalho>nah im not good enough
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03:10:08  <jjjjohnnny>MAH BRAAIN IS LATENT
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03:56:11  <defunctzombie>substack: for testling-ci is the access unmetered for open source or still limited to the 30 minute account stuff?
03:58:56  <defunctzombie>also, can I manually trigger a test run without pushing?
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04:37:49  <mikeal>substack: you at your house tomorrow?
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07:42:28  <pkrumins>we just finished a new product at browserling called screenling
07:42:57  <pkrumins>takes screenshots of websites!
07:43:49  <pkrumins>like this: wget -O browserling.png 'http://screenling.com/http://www.browserling.com'
07:45:00  <pkrumins>(this gonna work soon, we're setting up a server right now)
08:00:07  <juliangruber>substack: so testling tests are run on a blank page after onload?
08:02:03  <pkrumins>they are
08:02:59  <juliangruber>thanks!
08:03:33  <juliangruber>is the testling api changing again? still confused about why createwindow doesn't work
08:04:11  <pkrumins>testling api isn't changing
08:04:17  <pkrumins>there are issues with createwindow
08:04:22  <pkrumins>it works only in a few browsers
08:04:26  <pkrumins>hangs in others
08:04:46  <juliangruber>is there a list of working browsers?
08:04:47  <pkrumins>we still have to work on that part to get it work better
08:04:59  <juliangruber>so I can just use those?
08:05:02  <pkrumins>chrome and firefox and ie9 will work with createwindow
08:05:16  <pkrumins>yes, you can use those.
08:05:48  <pkrumins>but it will still hang sometimes (if the page doesn't load completely, like if there is a script that takes forever to load)
08:09:25  <juliangruber>hangs for substack.net with the window.js test in the testling repo in chrome/20.0 and iexplore/9.0
08:09:46  <juliangruber>is there a way of loading a site without even using createWindow?
08:14:02  <pkrumins>hangs for me too
08:14:32  <pkrumins>there is no way to load a site without using createWindow
08:14:44  <pkrumins>it used to work, we'll look into it soon and fix it
08:14:58  <pkrumins>i see the page loading, it completes loading
08:15:16  <pkrumins>but nothing gets returned
08:15:57  <juliangruber>mh ok
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08:24:11  <juliangruber>can i run testling ci tests before pushing, so I know that the tests themselves work?
08:24:39  <pkrumins>you can run them locally?
08:25:16  <pkrumins>oh i see
08:27:10  <pkrumins>i guess you could push directly to git.testling.com
08:27:16  <pkrumins>but that doesnt make sense
08:30:57  <juliangruber>ok
08:31:40  <pkrumins>there are still a few bugs we've to work out in testling-ci also
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09:32:54  <pkrumins>screenling works! give it a try!
09:33:44  <pkrumins>or `wget -O screenshot.png`
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10:28:45  <substack>mikeal: I'll be up in berkeley midday tomorrow then back home
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11:51:11  <tanepiper>pkrumins: SWEET!
11:51:23  <tanepiper>I can now get badly rendered IE pages :D
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16:16:32  <defunctzombie>substack: for testling browser selection, would be nice to have something like chrome/latest firefox/latest
16:16:39  <defunctzombie>not the nightlies or canary
16:16:41  <defunctzombie>latest stable
16:19:28  <pkrumins>we already do
16:20:07  <pkrumins>and also we have /nightly
16:21:26  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: http://testling.com/browsers.json
16:21:29  <defunctzombie>didn't see it here
16:22:18  <defunctzombie>also, you might be able to tell me if there is a way to trigger a test run without pushing changes?
16:22:23  <pkrumins>ah it's not listed there
16:23:41  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: there is not
16:23:55  <defunctzombie>sadness
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17:06:04  <jesusabdullah>substack: take a look at this when you get up https://github.com/Runnable/node-ecstatic/blob/a96e3752a6eaecb9f1009c8716e8ddfdf6f6103f/README.md it's a PR
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17:31:30  <CoverSlide>oh shit that's nice
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17:33:23  <CoverSlide>jesusabdullah: how was india?
17:33:42  <fotoverite>I think he's still there.
17:33:52  <CoverSlide>oh
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17:46:20  <jesusabdullah>I just got here CoverSlide
17:46:26  <jesusabdullah>but it's fantastic so far
17:46:26  <CoverSlide>oh
17:46:36  <CoverSlide>though you were leaving on the 1st
17:46:46  <fotoverite>lol that's when he left alaska
17:46:49  <CoverSlide>ic
17:47:43  <jesusabdullah>yeah, some guy wrote the thing that does the runnable code and decided to use ecstatic as a demo?
17:47:47  <jesusabdullah>I got a PR for it
17:50:01  <CoverSlide>well that's pretty fucking awesome
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17:50:18  <jesusabdullah>not sure I want to be in a position to implicitly endorse anyone but that *is* pretty cool
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18:21:42  <juliangruber>pkrumins substack: both of my modules on testling ci are still broken :o
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19:11:49  <jjjjohnnny>who wants in on a giant airstream RV project???
19:15:53  <jjjjohnnny>mobile restaurant available
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19:41:19  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) [email protected] successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
19:41:19  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
19:46:59  <jjjjohnnny>substack: http://i.imgur.com/oxdQZ.png
19:46:59  <picbot>http://polizeros.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Assange-Zuckerberg.jpg
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20:17:31  <tanepiper>substack: nice hack!
20:17:34  <tanepiper>And in first place was James Halliday, who wrote a virus that will infect an AR Drone, and then use that drone to infect any other AR Drones it comes across, "causing them all to be p0wned and run amok." Or if you want to be less evil about it, it's a handy way to automatically deploy software onto a bunch of AR Drones at once. It's available on Github under "virus-copter."
20:18:08  <ehd>did that use an exploit/open interface or something?
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20:54:46  <dominictarr>ehd, the ar-drone has no security features
20:54:58  <dominictarr>you can just connect to it's wifi, and then telnet in
20:55:52  <jjjjohnnny>dominictarr: http://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org/our-work/fellowship-model/
21:00:05  <mbalho>a good friend of mine is in the middle of his shuttleworth fellowship
21:00:16  <mbalho>they get more money than macarthur ("genius award") fellows
21:00:23  * shykeschanged nick to zz_shykes
21:01:40  <jjjjohnnny>now way those geniuses get like a mil
21:01:54  * zz_shykeschanged nick to shykes
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21:03:09  <pkrumins>mbalho:
21:03:58  <st_luke>the internet is awesome
21:04:31  <mbalho>pkrumins: lol
21:04:31  <dominictarr>substack, can you add a testling-ci repo so that I can post an issue on it?
21:04:45  <pkrumins>what do you guys think of this api for this screenshot service: http://screenling.com/browser/version/widthxheight/URL
21:04:58  <pkrumins>mbalho: we're launching screenling!
21:07:04  <jjjjohnnny>i presume you guys are aware of http://sauceio.com/
21:08:38  <juliangruber>pkrumins: screenling.com/url && screenling.com/browser(+version)/url && screenling.com/widthxheight/url && screenling.com/browser(+version)/widthxheight/url
21:10:10  <jjjjohnnny>screenling.com?w=x&h=x&os=x&browser=x&version=x
21:10:33  <jjjjohnnny>or /os/browser/version/url/width/height
21:11:20  <jjjjohnnny>querystrings are free as in liberty
21:15:03  <CoverSlide>pkrumins: what about hashtags?
21:15:53  <pkrumins>like how
21:15:53  <jjjjohnnny>hashes aren't always sent to the server
21:16:10  <CoverSlide>usually they are ignored
21:16:19  <CoverSlide>and only shown on the browser
21:16:53  <jjjjohnnny>not good for APIs
21:17:10  <pkrumins>i like this the best: http://screenling.com/os/browser/version/widthxheight/URL
21:17:15  <pkrumins>all parameters optional
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21:17:27  <CoverSlide>/os/ ?
21:18:02  <pkrumins>can do things like http://screenling.com/firefox/15/digg.com or http://screenling.com/digg.com or http://screenling.com/1024x764/digg.com or http://screenling.com/osx/1024x764/digg.com
21:18:15  <pkrumins>and it can be easily parsed
21:18:18  <CoverSlide>wouldn't the browser be required?
21:18:24  <pkrumins>defaults to chrome
21:18:27  <CoverSlide>ok
21:18:45  <jjjjohnnny>i little gui action would nice tho
21:19:06  <jjjjohnnny>buttons event reloads
21:19:06  <chrisdickinson>pkrumins: one thing i was playing around with a while back was the ability to specify a CSS selector to take a picture of a specific element
21:20:07  <chrisdickinson>also, making sure it's embeddable (as a "src" attribute in an "img" tag, for example) would be awesome -- makes documentation a million times easier.
21:20:09  <pkrumins>super hard to implement in all the browsers
21:20:22  <CoverSlide>screenling.com/lynx/digg.com
21:20:23  <CoverSlide>:D
21:20:30  <pkrumins>:)
21:20:47  <jjjjohnnny>are you planning to charge for screenling or use it to drive conversion traffic to browserling and testling?
21:20:54  <chrisdickinson>ah, yeah. i had just been playing with phantomjs for that purpose.
21:20:59  <pkrumins>chrisdickinson: it can be embeddable already
21:21:09  <pkrumins>it returns a image/png
21:21:16  <chrisdickinson>awesome
21:21:32  <pkrumins>also you can do things like `wget -O screenshot.png http://screenling.com/URL`
21:21:36  <pkrumins>just need to cache it
21:21:44  <pkrumins>otherwise it takes a screenshot every time.
21:22:00  <pkrumins>jjjjohnnny: we're gonna charge for it eventually
21:22:11  <pkrumins>free for a limited number of requests
21:22:24  <CoverSlide>hmm
21:22:34  <chrisdickinson>doesn't github already copy embedded images from readmes into their CDN?
21:22:59  <chrisdickinson>it'd be really neat for frontend repos to simply include a link to screenling showing part of their demo.
21:23:12  <CoverSlide>so will each request be saved on their account to prevent double charging? or is it every request
21:23:26  <jjjjohnnny>i would consider making it free for all, add a simple gui to flip screen shot params, and puts ads for your interactive testing on it
21:23:36  <pkrumins>CoverSlide: i dont know yet i havent thought about it
21:23:41  <jjjjohnnny>and possible ads for $
21:23:53  <pkrumins>jjjjohnnny: it will be free for all, just dont do a billion requests
21:24:07  <chrisdickinson>or cache by default and require $$$ for "always cache bust"
21:24:19  <CoverSlide>ah good idea
21:24:20  <pkrumins>hehe
21:24:22  <pkrumins>i like that
21:24:52  <pkrumins>here is another idea that we'll build on top of screenling
21:25:10  <pkrumins>takes screenshots of a webpage every N minutes for a given period of time
21:25:20  <pkrumins>then makes a playable movie!
21:25:41  <chrisdickinson>(free accounts could just get a watermark from screenling and default to nearly-perma-cached, and then you could encourage people to put those images in their READMEs (driving awareness))
21:25:43  <chrisdickinson>oh nice
21:25:55  <jjjjohnnny>caching is a bad idea i think
21:26:15  <pkrumins>chrisdickinson: i like that
21:26:16  <jjjjohnnny>if the service becomes useless, it will not drive good traffic
21:26:18  <dominictarr>chrisdickinson, they probably only do that for images that are in the repo
21:26:45  <CoverSlide>also per-domain limits
21:26:47  <dominictarr>but externally hosted images work as you expect - that is what travis does
21:26:58  <CoverSlide>maybe
21:27:30  <chrisdickinson>pkrumins: another idea: do difference layering of multiple browsers given a single site
21:27:37  <jjjjohnnny>pkrumins: I like the time-delay photograph idea. devs can show off their process
21:27:51  <chrisdickinson>(or difference layering of a single browser + site over time)
21:27:53  <pkrumins>jjjjohnnny: also easy to see if there have been any issues with the site
21:28:02  <dominictarr>chrisdickinson, ++
21:28:14  <pkrumins>you just quickly pay it through and see if you notice something unexpected
21:28:17  <chrisdickinson>(may not even need to produce full images -- could just be sent to send a ping to a given url when major differences are detected)
21:28:33  <chrisdickinson>s/sent to/set to/g
21:28:43  <jjjjohnnny>pkrumins: one photo in a series of movie pictures may not be easy to spot
21:28:44  <pkrumins>chrisdickinson: i like that
21:28:44  <st_luke>dominictarr: when are you making your way to the NY area? I'd love to say hello and buy you a beverage.
21:28:46  <chrisdickinson>sort of a CSS CI system
21:28:49  <jjjjohnnny>unless it goes slow
21:29:09  <pkrumins>jjjjohnnny: maybe, got to play with playback speed
21:29:10  <dominictarr>st_luke, I arrive on the 11th, very early in the morning!
21:29:31  <chrisdickinson>pkrumins: if you support sending HTML via POST (somehow), you could actually take a screenshot of a user's page when an error occurs, too
21:29:35  <dominictarr>I'm gonna be in town for 3 weeks
21:30:10  <pkrumins>dominictarr: in NYC?
21:30:21  <pkrumins>chrisdickinson: what do you mean? cant quite figure out
21:30:28  <dominictarr>pkrumins, yeah
21:30:48  <chrisdickinson>so, if you have a cross-origin POST api, you could send full HTML bodies over to screenling for screenshots -- not just URLs.
21:30:57  <pkrumins>oh!
21:31:05  <pkrumins>that's cool, easily doable.
21:31:14  <pkrumins>just write to a tmp file and load that up in the browser
21:31:23  <st_luke>dominictarr: wow, awesome
21:31:27  <chrisdickinson>and then you can deliver a service to sites that says "if there's an error, grab the DOM as a string, send it to screenling, and get a screenshot"
21:31:42  <chapel>just saw but congrats substack http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/diy/ar-drone-that-infects-other-drones-with-virus-wins-dronegames#.UMD0EHJvf8o.hackernews
21:31:48  <chrisdickinson>(with the appropriate munging of sensitive data, of course.)
21:32:35  <chrisdickinson>(or expose a google+ "send a bug report" button that lets a user choose a subset of the page to take a screenshot of.)
21:32:36  <pkrumins>chrisdickinson: i like that.
21:33:12  <pkrumins>we can do all these things
21:33:41  <chrisdickinson>:D
21:34:42  <chrisdickinson>(a sidenote: the nice thing about the CSS selector API -- though it's hard on multiple browsers -- is that you could setup screenling to take screenshots of specific visual elements on your site and monitor them for changes / breakage)
21:34:55  <pkrumins>i can only do that in chrome
21:34:58  <pkrumins>and maybe firefox
21:35:54  <CoverSlide>maybe add sizzle for IE
21:36:26  <CoverSlide>ie they request a css selector, create script element src=sizzle
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21:37:54  <chrisdickinson>or support a limited subset of CSS that any of them can understand
21:38:14  <chrisdickinson>(or something like sizzle or https://github.com/chrisdickinson/cssauron )
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22:30:57  <Raynos>has anyone written a system
22:31:01  <Raynos>that reuses templates server & client
22:31:04  <Raynos>and isn't retarded
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22:33:53  <CoverSlide>Raynos: explain
22:34:09  <CoverSlide>i use doT on the server and client
22:34:11  <Raynos>I want to use the DOM
22:34:15  <Raynos>Well really
22:34:17  <Raynos>I want a function
22:34:19  <Raynos>that returns a widget
22:34:21  <Raynos>or component
22:34:24  <Raynos>and I want to be able to do
22:34:27  <CoverSlide>hmm
22:34:32  <Raynos>append(document.body, widget.view) on the client
22:34:39  <Raynos>and res.end(widget.view.toString()) on the server
22:34:42  <Raynos>and the rest is the same
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22:35:12  <CoverSlide>hmm doubt I've ever seen that
22:35:51  <CoverSlide>problem with most server-side templating systems is they just use string values
22:36:03  <CoverSlide>or they use jsdom which is another level of suck
22:36:53  <CoverSlide>so on the client, you have to parent.innerHTML = widget.view.toString anyway
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23:43:11  <Raynos>CoverSlide: jsdom sucks
23:43:41  <Raynos>Coverslide: inlining https://github.com/jed/domo/blob/master/lib/document.js#L1 is pretty good idea
23:43:58  <Raynos>CoverSlide: using strings on the client is silly, you want the real dom on the client
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