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00:10:37  <Raynos>rvagg: `var stream = require("read-stream/array")([buffer])`
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00:12:25  <rvagg>will that emit an 'end' automatically Raynos?
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00:22:14  <Raynos>yes
00:22:17  <Raynos>on the next tick
00:22:19  <Raynos>once its consumed
00:22:26  <Raynos>it returns a streams2 stream
00:22:32  <Raynos>so you have to consume the buffer before it emits end
00:22:40  <Raynos>i.e. pipe it
00:27:49  <rvagg>too much code invested in my own impl, going with mine for now
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00:48:51  <Raynos>rvagg: we need to rewrite all the levelup streams code to streams2 when 0.10 hits. You have written so much stuff that's already in streams2 and has unit tests in node core.
00:49:22  <rvagg>need to maintain 0.8 compatibility for a while tho
00:57:10  <ralphtheninja>the streams in levelup are going to be so much cleaner with 0.10 -> nice!
00:58:11  <rvagg>hopefully streams everywhere are going to me much nicer post 0.10, writing stream implementations is stupid crazy now
01:05:08  <ralphtheninja>agree
01:09:33  <ralphtheninja>we could have a core-0.10 branch to play around in for now and just merge it into master when we're ready
01:12:03  <rvagg>mbalho: I was just about to submit a PR for concat-stream a Buffer('... Array ...') bug but I see it's fixed!
01:12:19  <mbalho>rvagg: yep published earlier
01:12:23  <mbalho>rvagg: (to npm)
01:12:29  <rvagg>mmm, tied to ~0.0.9, hence no update for me
01:12:32  <mbalho>rvagg: such a dumb mistake hehehe
01:12:35  <rvagg>good stuff!
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01:20:17  <rvagg>mbalho: the funny thing is that it's been working for me because the Buffers that I'm using in LevelUP that get passed to concat-stream actually have a .concat method, so the arr.reduce() in concat-stream works as it should
01:20:26  <rvagg>bufferstream adds a concat method to buffers
01:20:41  <rvagg>but when I remove bufferstream for my simple-bufferstream there is no .concat and the bug shows up!
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01:32:37  <ralphtheninja>rvagg: I think we should remove the sqlite3 benchmarks completely
01:32:52  <ralphtheninja>we already know they are slow as dirt
01:33:03  <rvagg>ralphtheninja: you don't enjoy mocking the speed?
01:33:42  <rvagg>I guess we can comment them out and let people run them if they want to see, but it's nice to be able to give an accurate answer to: "why leveldb and not sqlite?"
01:34:09  <ralphtheninja>I enjoyed it the first time :)
01:34:15  <ralphtheninja>now it just takes time from me
01:35:06  <ralphtheninja>commenting out is a good workaround
01:35:16  <rvagg>yeah, fair enough, perhaps comment them out and push to master, as long as they can be easily run if desired
01:35:43  <ralphtheninja>can have a command line flag to index.js
01:36:35  <rvagg>just comment out all the sqlite lines in test/benchmarks/tests/index.js and it should be good to go
01:36:52  <ralphtheninja>'node index.js --sqlite3' or something
01:37:01  <rvagg>nah, just comment in the code
01:37:08  <ralphtheninja>check
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01:52:43  <ralphtheninja>rvagg: pushing directly to rvagg/master then
01:53:07  <rvagg>
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02:16:47  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I thought some more about widgets
02:17:24  <Raynos>I think i'll make a polymorphic view function where view(thing) -> DOMElement
02:17:43  <Raynos>that way insert can use that and it's not hardcoupled to thing.view
02:24:15  <Raynos>substack: idea!
02:24:37  <Raynos>what if tape used a library for outputting TAP
02:24:52  <Raynos>that did the buffering of the TAP end message
02:25:09  <Raynos>then multiple TAP outputting test libraries can be used together as long as they all use the same tap outputter library
02:25:28  <Raynos>which means I can use multiple test libraries / frameworks and run them in a single test suite on testling ci
02:36:21  <Raynos>somethign is wrong :(
02:36:25  <Raynos>I want to write some code
02:36:30  <Raynos>and im writing modulare code depth first
02:36:48  <Raynos>so im not like 3 modules deep and I need to write and finish 3 modules before I can write the code I wanted to originally writ
02:56:19  <substack>Raynos: seems a bit too abstract
02:56:25  <substack>tap itself it too abstract
02:56:37  <substack>tape is imperative and self-contained
02:57:18  <st_luke>isaacs: when someone logs in to npm-www do they get an npm session created to do stuff with? I'm wondering if things like profile changes are done via that or if they're done by a couch admin user on behalf of the user
02:58:44  <Raynos>substack: I want it to be able to use two different tap exporting test libraries
02:58:53  <Raynos>but able to run one test suite made out of both of them
02:59:09  <Raynos>right now these two libraries both write their own TAP tests done message to console.log
02:59:13  <Raynos>which breaks in testling ci
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03:03:27  <ralphtheninja>substack: what do you mean by self-contained?
03:05:56  <substack>Raynos: maybe each of the test files should just run separately
03:06:04  <Raynos>substack: can testling CI do that?
03:06:05  <substack>that's an issue with testling-ci, not tape
03:06:30  <Raynos>the problem is tape pipes into this global thing called console.log
03:06:40  <Raynos>so it's not a bad idea to allow multiple people to share the global resource
03:07:22  <substack>solving that shouldn't involve changing tap
03:07:24  <substack>*tape
03:07:31  <substack>it should involve changing the runner in testling-ci
03:12:42  <st_luke>isaacs: never mind on that question, think I got it
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04:35:15  <Raynos>substack: I cant PR the runner in testling-ci, I can PR tape
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05:18:26  <Raynos>substack: https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/pull/275
05:25:34  <substack>oh neat I didn't even node had that
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05:36:18  <Raynos>substack: it doesn't work in IE8 in testling-ci which is weird :/
05:36:35  <Raynos>well by doesn't work I mean console.time / console.timeEnd doesn't work
05:36:59  <Raynos>I should actually figure out which one failed
05:39:58  <Raynos>I made the tests more explicit so I can see what fails
05:46:36  <Raynos>http://ci.testling.com/Raynos/console-browserify
05:46:38  <Raynos>IE8 !
05:52:46  <Raynos>substack: what do you think of https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/issues/276 ?
05:53:23  <substack>I don't like that at all.
05:53:31  <substack>browserify used to shim things
05:53:38  <substack>it just bloats the bundles
05:53:56  <substack>there's no stopping once you've got .bind() what stops you from shimming everything else?
05:54:04  <substack>there's no obvious stopping place
06:00:06  <Raynos>substack: I'm refactoring this https://github.com/substack/tape/blob/master/lib/default_stream.js into a module called console-stream
06:00:10  <Raynos>how should I credit you?
06:00:28  <Raynos>substack: there is no obvouis stopping place but .bind() is a painpoint for me because of phantom and saf5
06:01:20  <substack>I'm not too worried about credit
06:01:23  <substack>just do whatevs
06:09:57  <Raynos>substack: what about https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/issues/277 ?
06:10:04  <Raynos>i.e. jsonify vs window.JSON
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06:17:53  <defunctzombie>I don't think tools like browserify should do anything other than bundle in the most minimal way possible
06:18:37  <Raynos>defunctzombie: well all the builtins should be in npm. but should those builtins in NPM favor size or browser support
06:19:21  <Raynos>substack: the awesome thing about npm + ci.testling is that I can refactor parts of tape out and test them using tape and testling so some parts of tape are being tested in isolation even though tape isn't tested on testling itself
06:19:26  <defunctzombie>I would say support without the expense of language crap
06:19:36  <defunctzombie>i.e. if you want .bind() just make the consumer shim it
06:19:47  <defunctzombie>and try to keep crazy things to a minimum
06:20:01  <defunctzombie>it isn't unreasonable to say older browsers will need some shims
06:20:10  <defunctzombie>you always have some browser baseline you will target
06:20:49  <Raynos>defunctzombie: is that baseline whatever tape and ci.testling.com support?
06:20:57  <defunctzombie>?
06:21:00  <Raynos>because that's the baseline substack cares about because that's what he runs in production
06:21:06  <defunctzombie>what do you mean?
06:21:14  <Raynos>the browser baseline.
06:21:38  <defunctzombie>I think the test tools must support the broadest range
06:21:42  <Raynos>I mean I don't care, but I feel bad when tape depends on modules that don't have failing tests in IE6
06:21:57  <defunctzombie>yes, that is bad imho
06:21:59  <Raynos>it doesnt break tape because tape doesnt use the breaking feature
06:22:28  <defunctzombie>are you saying tape doesn't work in IE6?
06:22:38  <defunctzombie>I was under the impression it worked in all the environments
06:23:06  <defunctzombie>maybe I don't fully follow the issue
06:23:07  <Raynos>defunctzombie: it does
06:23:20  <Raynos>but it may appear it doesnt work because the testling badge on one of its dependents fails
06:23:35  <Raynos>i.e. should it depend on a module which breaks but it doesnt use the breaking features
06:23:57  <defunctzombie>I think that is fine
06:24:05  <defunctzombie>why does it matter?
06:24:15  <defunctzombie>tape's dependencies are only your problem if they cause problems for you
06:24:25  <defunctzombie>otherwise they are of no concern to you since you only use tape
06:24:33  <Raynos>true it doesnt matter
06:24:45  <Raynos>it just raised a bigger question of whats the browser support for builtins in browserify?
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06:25:38  <defunctzombie>personally, as much as people want to submit patches for
06:25:55  <defunctzombie>but really the idea that you can just seemlessly package a builtin for the browser doesn't work 100% of the time
06:25:59  <substack>tape will be on testling-ci soon
06:26:07  <defunctzombie>unless you set out knowing that was the goal imho
06:26:13  <substack>I started swapping out tap for tap-parser in the tape test suite
06:26:19  <defunctzombie>you have to be careful with what you do and how you do it
06:26:37  <substack>then I'll fork tt to work in ie6
06:27:02  <Raynos>im writing a version of tt that has a way simpler api
06:27:12  <substack>oh cool
06:27:15  <Raynos>I can make it work in IE6
06:27:19  <Raynos>depends whether assert works in IE6
06:27:36  <substack>I just need a thing I can use for tape to output tap
06:27:50  <Raynos>But first I need to refactor out tape/lib/render
06:27:52  <Raynos>so I can re-use that
06:27:56  <Raynos>in this new tt guy :P
06:29:23  <defunctzombie>I dunno why you guys care about IE6 honestly
06:29:30  <defunctzombie>no one is gonna care if you say no to IE6
06:29:35  <defunctzombie>no one cares about IE6
06:29:58  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I don't care but a testing service does
06:30:14  <mbalho>rvagg: lol
06:30:15  <Raynos>because you make $$$ for the for the green IE6 symbol
06:31:06  <defunctzombie>I don't know that a testing service does either honestly, but again, if someone wants it and will pay for it or do it
06:31:07  <defunctzombie>then why not
06:31:58  <defunctzombie>I need a good markdown css theme
06:32:02  <defunctzombie>why do they not exist haha
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07:37:12  <defunctzombie>Raynos: it is amazing, markdown support
07:37:19  <Raynos>pong
07:37:25  <Raynos>what is amazing?
07:37:34  <defunctzombie>I added markdown rendering to tryme
07:37:43  <defunctzombie>so now you can give basic instructions or guides
07:37:48  <defunctzombie>for the code examples
07:38:10  <defunctzombie>haven't pushed that version yet.. but is is cool haha
07:40:07  <Raynos>yes its cool
07:40:15  <Raynos>I hope your thing is a better examplifier :p
07:40:35  <defunctzombie>Raynos: http://imgur.com/wi7jXBq
07:40:39  <Raynos>defunctzombie: can you add a "feature" where it renders a big red box somewhere if an exception is thrown
07:40:47  <defunctzombie>haha
07:40:56  <Raynos>that means I can use it for my testing needs :p
07:41:05  <Raynos>open the page, is there a red box? test failed
07:41:47  <Raynos>actually I can just add a tiny tap parser to all my things :p
07:41:54  <Raynos>or check the console
07:42:03  <Raynos>i need a tap gui :D
07:44:11  <Raynos>substack: do you have a module that turns console.log into a readable stream?
07:44:21  <Raynos>we should add that to console-stream!
07:48:42  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: looks good!
07:49:12  <Raynos>defunctzombie: this is going to be a massive win for my workflow btw
07:49:25  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: Raynos :D
07:52:04  <dominictarr>oh… this is actually EXACTLY what I need right now…
07:52:20  <dominictarr>there is some sort of psychic transmissions going on in stackvm
07:52:28  <defunctzombie>haha
07:55:24  <Raynos>http://ci.testling.com/Raynos/tap-render :D
07:55:26  <Raynos>IE6.
08:13:34  <dominictarr>impressive
08:15:03  <dominictarr>testling has an evil effect because that little red flag compels you to make those tests pass
08:19:50  <substack>yay
08:20:23  <substack>dominictarr: it infects you with the "make this code work in browsers that I don't personally use" virus
08:20:30  <substack>best kind of virus
08:20:39  <dominictarr>yes
08:21:03  <dominictarr>you need mobile browsers too, though
08:21:15  <substack>pkrumins is working on it
08:21:23  <dominictarr>execlent
08:24:41  <Raynos>substack: https://github.com/substack/tape/pull/18
08:25:03  <Raynos>Next is a tap-assert module that works in IE6
08:25:19  <substack>neat
08:26:25  <Raynos>Actually maybe next is sleep
08:26:26  <dominictarr>at least this will get IE6 users using browserify
08:26:26  <Raynos>maybe not :D
08:26:45  <substack>dominictarr: indeed
08:29:13  <Raynos>substack: http://browserify.org/search search for tap
08:29:22  <Raynos>tap-render has the as testling thing but it's not shown :(
08:29:34  <Raynos>also that search with test results is fucking genious
08:29:40  <Raynos>we need that as a standalone thing
08:29:45  <Raynos>and also with travis-ci information
08:30:02  <Raynos>actually that just needs to be added to npm-search, cc isaacs
08:36:38  <substack>Raynos: it only polls npm for changes every 5 or 10 minutes I think
08:36:50  <Raynos>I see
08:36:58  <substack>it already is a standlone thing in fact!
08:37:24  <substack>well it's a tiny thing that uses https://github.com/substack/npm-package-sync and https://github.com/substack/npm-package-search
08:38:57  <substack>so many duplicates too
08:39:06  <substack>I'll have to squish that bug at some point
08:39:22  <substack>travis-ci badges in search would be pretty great too
08:39:40  <substack>npm search could be much better
08:40:01  <Raynos>well the fact that, the search there is fast
08:40:04  <Raynos>is fucking win :p
08:46:20  <defunctzombie>what I need are tiny modules to replace this npm crap
08:46:37  <defunctzombie>first module is "read package.json" and give me metadata breakdown of the dependencies
08:46:49  <defunctzombie>is it a registry dep, tarbal, or github dep
08:52:46  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: can you push your tryme thing? I want to use it.
08:56:39  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: Raynos: http://tryme.jitsu.com/shtylman/tryme/doc/intro/
08:56:45  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: https://github.com/shtylman/tryme
08:56:46  <Raynos>dominictarr: What do you think of datomic? (relevant: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Datomic-Database-Value)
08:57:04  <defunctzombie>it is still rough around the edges.. and the local only mode (in the bin folder) is broken currently I think
08:58:25  <dominictarr>um, sure it's okay
08:58:48  <defunctzombie>node view.js is where you probably want to start
08:59:05  <dominictarr>I guess it's an interesting take on a traditional database - but it's not really revolutionaly, I think.
08:59:10  <dominictarr>still centralized, etc
08:59:18  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: thanks
08:59:28  <defunctzombie>Raynos: https://github.com/shtylman/tryme/blob/master/doc/intro/index.js that is the tryme doc dogfooding itself :)
09:00:02  <defunctzombie>Raynos: also, you can do arbitrary dirs now
09:02:21  <Raynos>defunctzombie: if you select the markdown
09:02:24  <Raynos>it renders in text
09:02:27  <Raynos>and doesnt render back to markdown
09:02:42  <defunctzombie>Raynos: yea, known bug in how I render markdown stuff currently
09:03:12  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: can I use that with browserify?
09:03:22  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: what do you mean?
09:03:45  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: http://tryme.jitsu.com/shtylman/typeahead/example/
09:03:49  <Raynos>dominictarr: point it at any js file. It will browserify it. and it will git clone your repo and run npm install
09:03:50  <defunctzombie>see line 1
09:03:58  <defunctzombie>yes, what Raynos said
09:04:06  <defunctzombie>except in a different order :p
09:04:52  <dominictarr>ah, yes that is what I want
09:05:32  <Raynos>I WANT IT TO
09:07:47  <defunctzombie>k, it is pretty late.. I am out
09:07:56  <defunctzombie>if you have comments open issues :)
09:08:24  <defunctzombie>and make some tryme examples!
09:08:29  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: to be honest, I find the zig zag and the transition from dark to light a bit hard on the eyes
09:08:58  <dominictarr>I'd go dark-dark or light-light
09:09:21  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: all that is carry over from the interactive module with no styling changes yet
09:09:31  <defunctzombie>if it suits your example better you can just style that differently
09:09:42  <defunctzombie>by having a style.css in your project folder
09:09:43  <dominictarr>of course
09:09:46  <defunctzombie>but yea
09:09:51  <defunctzombie>styling will need to be worked on
09:10:01  <defunctzombie>I might go with solarized light
09:10:08  <defunctzombie>to make it easier on the eyes
09:10:12  <defunctzombie>with the white backgrounds
09:11:43  * defunctzombiechanged nick to defunctzombie_zz
09:24:53  <dominictarr>defunctzombie_zz: this is pretty good, but i'd rather generate a static site, rather than a server
09:27:42  <Raynos>dominictarr: You should be able to use it locally too
09:27:56  <Raynos>https://github.com/shtylman/tryme
09:28:02  <dominictarr>I want to deploy it as a static page
09:28:11  <Raynos>https://github.com/shtylman/tryme/blob/master/view.js view command
09:28:53  <Raynos>oh wait
09:28:56  <Raynos>thats not how you do local
09:29:27  <Raynos>https://github.com/shtylman/tryme/blob/master/bin/tryme
09:32:15  <Raynos>you have to make the router work statically, that's the challenge :p
09:32:52  <dominictarr>I just want to pass a path to the file to use
09:56:48  <Raynos>FUCK
09:56:54  <Raynos>im writing another test framework
09:56:56  <Raynos>how did this happen
09:58:24  <dominictarr>Raynos: WHY?
10:00:07  <Raynos>because i dont like tapoe's api
10:00:08  * fotoveritequit (Quit: fotoverite)
10:00:13  <Raynos>nor tt's api
10:00:17  <Raynos>and wanted to write something really simple
10:00:20  <Raynos>except its not really simple
10:00:22  <Raynos>so I failed
10:00:24  <Raynos>I will finish it
10:00:27  <Raynos>then cut my wrists
10:07:33  <dominictarr>dont do that raynos
10:07:40  <Raynos>TOO LATE
10:07:42  <Raynos>IT IS BEING DONE
10:07:56  <dominictarr>SOMEONE CALL THE HOSPITAL
10:09:45  <dominictarr>Raynos: if you are going to make a test framework, please make it declarative and functional
10:12:45  <Raynos>wrong problem
10:12:48  <Raynos>not now
10:12:51  <Raynos>I want to finish this
10:12:53  <Raynos>OCD
10:22:19  <dominictarr>name the test framework ocd-test
10:28:37  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/tap-assert
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10:37:16  <dominictarr>Raynos: okay, good one.
10:37:32  <dominictarr>that is gonna make porting some old tests way easier
10:37:33  <fotoverite>dominictarr: still in vietnam?
10:37:44  <dominictarr>fotoverite: back in NZ!
10:37:53  <fotoverite>Ah hope you're enjoying
10:38:10  <dominictarr>it's summer time again!
10:38:10  * ralphtheninjajoined
10:38:18  <fotoverite>yay
10:38:36  <fotoverite>it's fucking freezing here. :(
10:38:50  <dominictarr>yeah
10:39:06  <dominictarr>it's amazing how much effect the summer time has on people's happyness
10:39:10  <dominictarr>(sorry to rub it in)
10:39:26  <dominictarr>when are you off on your trip?
10:39:26  <fotoverite>it'll be warm soon enough
10:39:42  <dominictarr>the tropics is different
10:40:05  <dominictarr>it doesn't feel like that in the tropics, because it's just hot all the time
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10:43:08  <dominictarr>still, the tropics is great, wish I was coming to india!
10:43:19  <fotoverite>or thailand
10:43:24  <fotoverite>we'll miss you there.
10:43:28  <Raynos>dominictarr: I'm going to patch pause-stream to be IE6 tolerant
10:43:29  <fotoverite>you still can come to india!
10:43:36  <dominictarr>Raynos: cool!
10:44:13  <dominictarr>fotoverite: too busy + I already have my flights to ireland
10:44:24  <fotoverite>when you going to ireland?
10:44:29  <dominictarr>march
10:44:29  <fotoverite>will be there in april for ull
10:44:53  <dominictarr>I'll be there, I don't if i'll go to ull
10:45:11  <fotoverite>you should it's going to be amazing I mean it's paul
10:45:30  <fotoverite>excited to see what cian is up too.
10:45:46  <dominictarr>is it remotely related to realtime / mobile stuff?
10:45:54  <fotoverite>mobile design
10:46:19  <dominictarr>oh i see
10:47:03  <dominictarr>Actually, I've become interested in that recently.
10:47:13  <fotoverite>then go!
10:47:23  <fotoverite>Ask paul if he can still get you an earlybird price.
10:47:35  <dominictarr>I'll get cian to pull some strings
10:47:58  <fotoverite>if you do that you might end up speaking. ;D
10:48:06  <dominictarr>he's good at that kind of stuff
10:58:09  <ralphtheninja>ull?
10:58:26  <fotoverite>http://2013.ull.ie/
10:58:32  <ralphtheninja>danke
11:03:27  <Raynos>dominictarr: https://github.com/dominictarr/pause-stream/pull/2
11:03:29  <Raynos>I think that's the only one
11:09:04  <dominictarr>merging
11:10:55  <dominictarr>Raynos: one day your biographers might read that PR so you should have mentioned IE compatibility in the PR
11:11:04  <Raynos>:D
11:11:06  <fotoverite>lol!
11:18:25  <ralphtheninja>hehe
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11:52:54  <Raynos>ok https://github.com/Raynos/assert-tap <- is kind of done now
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12:24:10  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/assert-tap#example-with-test-interface
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12:34:33  <Raynos>substack: https://github.com/Raynos/assert-tap <- I finished it
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14:49:21  <mikolalysenko>Ok, quick question: What is the easiest/most portable way to create a named fifo in node.js?
14:49:45  <mikolalysenko>I could just call mkfifo but I don't think that works on windows (unless I am wrong?)
14:50:02  <mikolalysenko>basically by writing a c wrapper
15:03:08  <guybrush>mikolalysenko: why not just use an Array? also i have seen https://github.com/trevnorris/cbuffer
15:04:18  <guybrush>it implements pointers with fixed size array
15:43:57  <mikolalysenko>guybrush: well, I need them in order to interface with LaTeX
15:44:03  <mikolalysenko>which is kind of a terrible program...
15:44:24  <mikolalysenko>basically it has no good way to redirect its output to stdout
15:44:44  <mikolalysenko>I've decided to give up on using streams with it and instead I am just running the whole mess from a temporary directory
15:45:23  <guybrush>oh i think i misunderstood your usecase
15:45:51  <mikolalysenko>yeah, basically I want to create a simpler module for calling latex
15:46:09  <mikolalysenko>so you can do something like: require("latexify")("A x = b")
15:46:28  <guybrush>and you get a image?
15:46:34  <mikolalysenko>and it will give you a stream
15:46:41  <mikolalysenko>probably in dvi format
15:46:54  <mikolalysenko>that you can then pass through image magick or something to convert into whatever format you like
15:47:19  <mikolalysenko>I am debating whether I should try to massage the output into something more manageable than DVI
15:47:29  <mikolalysenko>since 99% of the users are probably going to want a png anyway
15:47:38  <mikolalysenko>but dvi is a little more flexible since it can be scaled
15:47:48  <mikolalysenko>and there are ways to conver it directly to jpg or svg
15:47:53  <guybrush>there is also this mathjax lib or whats it called
15:47:56  <mikolalysenko>and it is also easier
15:47:57  <guybrush>im sure you know it
15:47:59  <mikolalysenko>yeah, but it is different
15:48:15  <mikolalysenko>mathjax is for web pages, and doesn't really implement latex syntax
15:48:26  <mikolalysenko>I just want a thing to quickly compile and render mathmode expressions
15:48:31  <mikolalysenko>with full latex flexibility
15:49:38  <mikolalysenko>for example, one application I am thinking of for this is to use it to generate images for equations so I can preprocess markdown files
15:49:50  <mikolalysenko>then I can use latex in my github readmes
15:50:05  <guybrush>i think i cant help you at all, but maybe you can look into other modules which interact with such kind of programs - like gm https://github.com/aheckmann/gm
15:51:43  <guybrush>basically it spawns image/graphics-magic with require('child_process') and pipes in your command
15:51:50  <mikolalysenko>yeah
15:52:05  <mikolalysenko>I think that is probably the right way to do it
15:56:58  <guybrush>mikolalysenko: haha! once i did a php-app where you can put in latex-syntax in a form and it prints the image into a directory with a hash of the input, it was badass :p
15:57:28  <mikolalysenko>neat
15:57:38  <mikolalysenko>I am thinking about a more direct application though
15:57:53  <mikolalysenko>just base64 encode the images as a data url, and then stick those directly in the document
15:58:05  <mikolalysenko>so you could have github markdown formatted readmes with latex equations
15:58:07  <guybrush>oh i think that would be pretty usefull
15:58:31  <mikolalysenko>yeah, I want to make a preprocess using this library to add math to my github pages
16:01:18  <guybrush>the thing with latex is, its hard to install (sure if you use it all the time you really know how to do it well)
16:01:41  <mikolalysenko>yeah, though on linux it isn't so bad
16:01:55  <mikolalysenko>at least via debian you can just install the latest package
16:02:00  <guybrush>at least its a lot, with all those extensions and stuff
16:02:07  <mikolalysenko>that is true
16:02:11  <guybrush>its like 500mb
16:02:12  <mikolalysenko>latex is a beast
16:02:28  <guybrush>or even a gig, didnt do much latex lately
16:02:31  <mikolalysenko>yeah, I freely acknowledge that it is a terrible piece of software
16:02:42  <guybrush>so i think it would be cool to have a box running somewhere
16:02:45  <guybrush>with a webapi
16:02:49  <mikolalysenko>yeah
16:02:55  <guybrush>where you paste your stuff and get the image pdf or what ever
16:03:07  <mikolalysenko>I think there are a few services that already do this
16:03:27  <mikolalysenko>but sometimes you want to run it locally
16:03:35  <guybrush>right
16:03:38  <mikolalysenko>maybe you want custom packages, for example to do commutative diagrams
16:04:19  <mikolalysenko>also maybe you just want the extra certainty that some remote service isn't going to go down and kill your site with it
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16:04:38  <mikolalysenko>since many of these services don't have a clear profit model, and don't seem likely to live too long
16:06:18  <guybrush>damn profit
16:07:03  <mikolalysenko>well, I think it is something you should look for if you are planning on using a service
16:07:16  <mikolalysenko>otherwise you can't really count on it to be there indefinitely
16:07:24  <guybrush>i agree
16:08:18  <mikolalysenko>although I have been messing around with building service wrappers...
16:08:34  <mikolalysenko>like this one: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/ShapeWaysJS
16:08:40  <mikolalysenko>3d printing in javascript!
16:09:03  <guybrush>ha i read your blogpost about it, enjoyed it a lot :D
16:09:27  <mikolalysenko>yeah, I've been meaning to write a more detailed tutorial on how to use ShapeWays in node
16:09:38  <guybrush>i like to use http://www.random.org/ for funprojects (like a dice-ircbot)
16:10:16  <mikolalysenko>do they have a REST API?
16:11:01  <guybrush>they do but i cant find it right now
16:11:19  <mikolalysenko>ah, there is a wrapper for it
16:11:24  <mikolalysenko>https://npmjs.org/package/node-random
16:11:46  <guybrush>ah nice
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17:55:43  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: https badges yet?
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18:05:52  <jesusabdullah>https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/774735_10200223866576567_396730662_o.jpg :D
18:06:28  <defunctzombie>wow
18:06:45  <jesusabdullah>My friend Daisy made that
18:14:32  <jesusabdullah>Alright friends I am going to bed!
18:14:35  <jesusabdullah>It's that time
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19:09:25  <defunctzombie>isaacs: is there a module to read package.json and return metadata info about the types of dependencies(ie github, tarbal, registry, etc) and would you be interested in such a module?
19:09:43  <isaacs>defunctzombie: there's read-package-json
19:09:52  <isaacs>defunctzombie: give it a file, it'll give you the object
19:10:05  <isaacs>defunctzombie: parses /**package **/ comments, loads defaults, etc.
19:10:39  <defunctzombie>what does it return for dependencies?
19:10:44  <isaacs>defunctzombie: just the object from the json
19:11:00  <defunctzombie>ah.. I am talking about something that will tell me what the type of the dependency is
19:11:04  <defunctzombie>based on the "version" string
19:11:17  <defunctzombie>so you can know if it is a github dep, tarbal, or registry lookup
19:11:23  <isaacs>defunctzombie: npmjust parses the values to get the type. it has to do that anyway, though, since you can do `npm install [email protected]://github.com/isaacs/node-glob` or `npm install isaacs/node-glob` or `npm install [email protected]`
19:11:37  <defunctzombie>would you consider that in scope of read-package-json
19:11:39  <isaacs>on the command line
19:11:43  <isaacs>not really
19:11:58  <defunctzombie>maybe a separate module or something
19:12:13  <defunctzombie>basically I want to simplify npm install programatic running and such
19:12:14  <isaacs>defunctzombie: it'd have to repeat the logic that's already in lib/cache.js, so i probably wouldn't use it in npm
19:12:29  <isaacs>defunctzombie: how would that sipmlify npm programmatic running?
19:12:41  <isaacs>defunctzombie: you can just do `npm.commands.install([any, old stuff], cb)`
19:12:47  <defunctzombie>so right now the npm api relies on quite a number of globals
19:12:57  <isaacs>globals?
19:13:05  <defunctzombie>yea
19:13:11  <isaacs>id on't follow
19:13:12  <isaacs>what's global?
19:13:34  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/shtylman/tryme/blob/master/npm.js#L20
19:13:42  <defunctzombie>so calling .load two times doesn't do anything
19:13:48  <defunctzombie>the module 'npm' is basically a global
19:14:00  <defunctzombie>.load just initializes it but doesn't return you an "instance"
19:14:05  <defunctzombie>that is independent of other instances
19:14:14  <defunctzombie>so I had to do the thing on line 29
19:14:25  <defunctzombie>before I was trying to load twice
19:14:31  <isaacs>defunctzombie: oh, ok, so that's a very different issue.
19:14:43  <isaacs>defunctzombie: i'd be happy to take a patch to make load() return a new instance.
19:14:44  <defunctzombie>well, that is cause config is global to npm
19:14:49  <isaacs>defunctzombie: exactly
19:14:51  <defunctzombie>that would be cool
19:15:09  <isaacs>defunctzombie: but you can create a new config that inherits from some other one
19:15:12  <defunctzombie>cause that gave me some minor headache. I was able to patch around it but it was totally unexpected
19:15:37  <defunctzombie>also, line 13
19:15:46  <defunctzombie>where I have to explicitly make the node_modules dir
19:15:52  <defunctzombie>because I think it gets created on .load
19:16:08  <isaacs>defunctzombie: you can set the prefix explicitly in your conf obj
19:16:20  <defunctzombie>isaacs: doesn't work on multiple calls
19:16:31  <defunctzombie>cause of the if (loaded) check in npm.js
19:16:35  <defunctzombie>(npm.js in the npm repo)
19:16:40  <defunctzombie>the loaded var is a global
19:16:50  <defunctzombie>I tried making it per config but that broke other stuff
19:16:51  <isaacs>defunctzombie: yes, npm is a singleton
19:17:08  <isaacs>defunctzombie: npm.load() should return an isolated instance.
19:17:13  <isaacs>defunctzombie: but it doesn't
19:17:18  <defunctzombie>right
19:17:35  <isaacs>defunctzombie: then you could do npm.load({prefix:wherever}, function(er, mynpm) { ... })
19:17:36  <defunctzombie>would it be a challenge to make it return an isolated instance?
19:17:40  <defunctzombie>correct
19:17:43  <defunctzombie>that is what I tried at first
19:17:45  <isaacs>defunctzombie: not for me, if you send a patch, that works :)
19:17:51  <defunctzombie>but then discovered the issues
19:17:57  <isaacs>(i mean, it would not be a challenge for me to accept a working patch that does this)
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19:18:11  <defunctzombie>isaacs: cool, do you have any thoughts on what would be the biggest "problem"
19:18:13  <isaacs>as for how much of a challenge it would be to implement? i don't know
19:18:18  <defunctzombie>looking at the code it seemed almost there
19:18:21  <isaacs>defunctzombie: yeah
19:18:27  <isaacs>the only tricky thing is getting all the config shit working right
19:18:31  <defunctzombie>just maybe need to have an object that is the "npm" isolated instance
19:18:34  <defunctzombie>yea
19:19:01  <isaacs>defunctzombie: so what you need to do is load all the config files etc, then have each npm instance have their own cli confi, and their own npmconf object that inherits from the "root" one
19:19:17  <defunctzombie>k
19:19:22  <isaacs>defunctzombie: since you probably don't want to read the npmrc files over and over again
19:20:05  <defunctzombie>is there a notion of an "instance" currently
19:20:14  <defunctzombie>I didn't really find it in the npm.js file
19:20:22  <isaacs>defunctzombie: no, it's kind of assumed to be a singleton
19:20:26  <defunctzombie>gotcha
19:20:34  <isaacs>defunctzombie: it's just sort of evolved that way, and i never needed more than once instance of npm
19:20:39  <isaacs>so i never bothered to build it that way
19:20:44  <defunctzombie>yea, from a CLI that makes sense
19:20:51  <isaacs>but if YOU need that, then you should build it :)
19:20:55  <defunctzombie>:)
19:24:21  <defunctzombie>isaacs: question about node module lookup, when inside a child dir of project foo and you do require('foo'), it looks in all the node_modules folders starting from where you are up the tree for a folder called 'foo', any reason folders with package.json are not checked for name 'foo' ?
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19:25:46  <defunctzombie>isaacs: I often find that in examples I will write require('../') to access the project versus require('foo') which is what I really want to write
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19:26:20  <isaacs>defunctzombie: require('foo') would work if your package is installed in a node_modules folder
19:26:32  <isaacs>defunctzombie: but often if you're the top-level app, or in development etc, it's not
19:26:42  <isaacs>defunctzombie: internally in your package, you should always use require('./whatever')
19:26:56  <isaacs>defunctzombie: require('top-level') should only be for builtins and dependencies
19:27:05  <isaacs>defunctzombie: ie, "external" to your current package
19:27:28  <defunctzombie>right, but in the case of examples, if you want to make them look "stand alone"
19:27:31  <defunctzombie>if that makes sense
19:27:53  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/shtylman/typeahead/blob/master/example/index.js
19:28:06  <isaacs>defunctzombie: in the README.md, I do require('foo'). in examples/blah.js i do require('../')
19:28:19  <defunctzombie>I like having the require('typeahead') there cause require('../') would be kinda useless
19:28:50  <defunctzombie>basically from an actual code example running/using/copying standpoint I suppose
19:32:22  <defunctzombie>"npm selflink" could be kinda interesting
19:32:31  <defunctzombie>to make a symlink in node_modules back to self haha
19:33:10  <defunctzombie>imho a good example should be copy/pastable :D
19:36:12  <isaacs>defunctzombie: then write your example in a ``` in your README file
19:36:30  <isaacs>defunctzombie: if you need many files of examples, then maybe your lib is too complicated.
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19:55:17  <defunctzombie>isaacs: it isn't about many files.. it is about an example being something is a copy/paste code snippet
19:56:12  <defunctzombie>if I want to provide many examples that says nothing about my lib
19:56:19  <defunctzombie>it just means i might want to provide many examples
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19:58:16  <isaacs>defunctzombie: i usually put the example in the readme
19:58:21  <isaacs>defunctzombie: so it is copy-pasteable
19:58:29  <isaacs>and also shows up by default when someoen looks at the docs
19:58:44  <defunctzombie>isaacs: this is about interactive examples and the stuff I am trying to do with tryme :)
19:58:59  <defunctzombie>readme examples are cool, but interactive are way better :)
19:59:29  <isaacs>defunctzombie: sure.
19:59:38  <isaacs>in that case, just do requirE('../')
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19:59:58  <isaacs>defunctzombie: i mean... you want them to run by default when the user checks out your git repo, right?
20:00:30  <defunctzombie>less about the user checking it out
20:00:37  <defunctzombie>and more about using the online tool if you want
20:01:29  <defunctzombie>depends on the target of the example
20:01:38  <defunctzombie>in this case I am focusing on web based things
20:01:47  <defunctzombie>which don't just "run" without some harness or such
20:02:03  <defunctzombie>isaacs: http://tryme.jitsu.com/shtylman/tryme/doc/intro/
20:02:21  <isaacs>defunctzombie: ok. so, there are basically two options: use require('../') or put the module in a node_modules folder.
20:02:27  <defunctzombie>so the demos are all "node" modules
20:02:28  <isaacs>defunctzombie: the node module system is locked.
20:02:32  <isaacs>k
20:02:36  <defunctzombie>yea, I got that part
20:02:55  <defunctzombie>I just wanted to know if there was a reason for not referencing the package.json in a dir if available?
20:03:01  <isaacs>defunctzombie: because it's another thing.
20:03:08  <isaacs>defunctzombie: and we wnat to have fewer things
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20:03:22  <isaacs>defunctzombie: require('foo') --> something at .../node_modules/foo
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20:03:36  <defunctzombie>gotcha
20:03:37  <isaacs>defunctzombie: not something with "name":"foo" in a package.json file
20:03:51  <isaacs>defunctzombie: locked since 0.4 :)
20:04:01  <defunctzombie>yea, I know it hasn't changed
20:04:06  <defunctzombie>:)
20:04:20  <defunctzombie>I think npm selflink could be cool
20:04:49  <defunctzombie>basically
20:04:56  <defunctzombie>npm link && npm link "foo"
20:05:42  <isaacs>defunctzombie: meh.
20:05:51  <isaacs>defunctzombie: i just have all my node modules in a folder called "node_modules"
20:06:05  <isaacs>ln -s ~/projects ~/node_modules
20:06:06  <isaacs>done
20:06:36  <defunctzombie>hm, seems like a hackish thing to get around what you really wanted to do :)
20:06:48  <isaacs>it's actually nice
20:06:54  <isaacs>i can access all my modules all the time
20:07:15  <defunctzombie>so you just wnat to globally install them :p
20:08:28  <st_luke>i just npm install to ~/node_modules after i publish, just to keep ongoing projects separate
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20:09:26  <defunctzombie>I just npm install -g since npm/node are already in my home dir
20:09:32  <defunctzombie>if I really want some module
20:09:45  <defunctzombie>but generally I don't do that
20:09:52  <defunctzombie>I like to keep deps on a per project
20:10:05  <defunctzombie>and don't want random leakage from anything I might have installed globally
20:10:14  <defunctzombie>makes it easier to forget to add deps
20:15:53  <defunctzombie>substack: ping
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20:53:35  <st_luke>mbalho: your video is up
20:53:47  <fotoverite>yay empire videos!
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21:00:25  <mbalho>st_luke: lololol
21:00:37  <mbalho>st_luke: xoxo xXhugsXx
21:00:59  <fotoverite>mbalho: it looks great max
21:01:12  <st_luke>mbalho: let me fix the title actually
21:01:29  <st_luke>have a million fucking google accounts now
21:01:58  <exit2>mbalho: I'm trying to get phone gap and node working, where do I begin (or how do I) install node to it?
21:02:52  <mbalho>exit2: i havent done that before
21:03:12  <exit2>mbalho: oic, I thought you used node with gather?
21:04:06  <mbalho>exit2: yea but just on the server
21:04:15  <st_luke>mbalho: look at the category i assigned to the video
21:04:25  <mbalho>LOL
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21:04:36  <mbalho>https://twitter.com/maxogden/status/295638297588408322
21:04:54  <st_luke>that's probably why those related videos are showing up haha
21:05:24  <exit2>mbalho: do you think it would be possible to use express with phone gap?
21:06:01  <mbalho>exit2: i used flatiron/director in my client side code but i dont think express would run in a browser
21:06:18  <defunctzombie>isaacs: npm uses graceful-fs
21:06:23  <st_luke>gmail reported a 'suspicious login from oakland' heh
21:06:27  <defunctzombie>which monkey patches the environment
21:06:27  <isaacs>defunctzombie: yes
21:06:38  <defunctzombie>holy balls.. is there a way to have it not do that?
21:06:51  <isaacs>defunctzombie: meh.
21:06:53  <isaacs>i dunno
21:07:05  <defunctzombie>I am all for monkey patching on your own project.. but a lib.. bah!
21:07:20  <defunctzombie>not really "meh" imho
21:08:41  <defunctzombie>I mean.. why not just use graceful fs within your project?
21:08:57  <isaacs>defunctzombie: patch welcome
21:09:09  <isaacs>defunctzombie: imo, fs should just behave that way
21:09:13  <isaacs>EMFILE is stupid
21:09:28  <defunctzombie>well, that is a different discussion
21:09:35  <defunctzombie>unrelated to bad library behavior :)
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21:15:56  <defunctzombie>isaacs: from a CLI standpoint again it doesn't matter, but it just seems really annoying when the lib does these things if it doesn't have to
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22:40:36  <st_luke>isaacs: sent a PR with a tiny fix on npmconf due to a missing dep, was causing an issue on something I'm using it for
22:47:52  <defunctzombie>isaacs: can I capture npm log output?
22:48:02  <defunctzombie>I see the npm.registry.log stuff
22:48:12  <defunctzombie>but what about things logged during install, not from the registry?
22:49:14  <st_luke>>> file
22:49:15  <purr>st_luke: ReferenceError: file is not defined
22:49:25  <st_luke>lmao wut
22:49:42  <st_luke>>> /
22:49:43  <purr>st_luke: SyntaxError: Invalid regular expression: missing /
22:49:58  <st_luke>>> /.*/
22:49:59  <purr>st_luke: (object) /.*/
22:52:30  <substack>>> 1+2
22:52:30  <purr>substack: (number) 3
22:52:44  <substack>defunctzombie: pong
22:53:12  <defunctzombie>substack: nvm, I found a different solution :p (or at least better understand hte problem)
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23:12:07  <ralphtheninja>>> 1/0
23:12:08  <purr>ralphtheninja: (number) Infinity
23:12:12  <ralphtheninja>cool :)
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23:37:45  <defunctzombie>isaacs: I am still seeing that error with "module is not in the npm registry" when I try to install something using the shortform git syntax
23:38:06  <defunctzombie>isaacs: npm -v 1.2.3
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