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| <ralphtheninja> | isaacs: you do drink whiskey right? |
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| <isaacs> | ralphtheninja: yes. |
| 00:26:02
| <isaacs> | ralphtheninja: godo whiskey is my drink of choice |
| 00:26:20
| <ralphtheninja> | isaacs: ✔ |
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| 00:46:28
| <rvagg> | mbalho: someone's moving in on your cat mapping turf: http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/03/demographics-cat-map-plots-locations-names-and-colors-of-london-felines/ |
| 00:46:38
| <mbalho> | its cool i have the patent |
| 01:15:19
| <niftylettuce> | anyone here use node-qt? |
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| <hij1nx> | Raynos: the recording quality came out really good! |
| 02:15:36
| <Raynos> | nice :) |
| 02:15:51
| <Raynos> | trim my rambling down to just the good bits |
| 02:15:56
| <ralphtheninja> | hij1nx: cool! |
| 02:16:06
| <hij1nx> | ralphtheninja: haha, totally, so far the editing is magical |
| 02:16:13
| <hij1nx> | ralphtheninja: you want to do one? |
| 02:16:19
| <ralphtheninja> | it's gonna be epic :) |
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| 02:16:35
| <ralphtheninja> | not sure what I would talk about, a little busy now though |
| 02:16:50
| <ralphtheninja> | I can check the checklist |
| 02:16:55
| <hij1nx> | ralphtheninja: ok, let me know when |
| 02:17:53
| <ralphtheninja> | what have you talked about already? |
| 02:18:24
| <hij1nx> | Raynos talked about userland/core and how the pattern is node like |
| 02:46:24
| <Raynos> | o/ |
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| * defunctzombie | turning flot into a jquery-less canvas graph lib |
| 03:15:59
| <defunctzombie> | anyone have any better recommendations? |
| 03:18:04
| <defunctzombie> | https://github.com/fat/bean |
| 03:18:07
| <defunctzombie> | how am I just finding this |
| 03:18:37
| <defunctzombie> | although it seems really complex |
| 03:20:12
| <defunctzombie> | substack: I kinda want to merge the api of "bean" above and "ever" some |
| 03:20:16
| <defunctzombie> | and add more tests :) |
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| <thl0> | is there any module yet to add sourceMaps to [email protected] ? |
| 03:46:53
| <thl0> | otherwise I'd write a transformer that does that |
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| <thl0> | sourceUrl that is (always get those confused( |
| 04:03:04
| <dominictarr> | defunctzombie: https://github.com/dominictarr/semver-ftw/issues/2#issuecomment-14341178 |
| 04:04:00
| <defunctzombie> | dominictarr: personal take is that the stability index is a lie |
| 04:04:19
| <defunctzombie> | the maintainer will break it when they feel like they want to if they personally find a good reason |
| 04:04:43
| <defunctzombie> | no one is gonna commit to anything for eternity, that is why we have breaking version numbers :/ |
| 04:06:47
| <defunctzombie> | I also will add that versioning is completely made up by everyone at all times and major.minor.patch are just hints to end users |
| 04:06:58
| <defunctzombie> | and mean nothing in reality |
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| 04:11:33
| <substack> | thl0: to support source maps I'm thinking that module-deps can output extra data into the json stream about the original source files |
| 04:11:55
| <substack> | and module-deps handles running the transform code so transforms could specify file-specific source map data |
| 04:12:25
| <substack> | then browser-pack should compile this source map data into a source map for the whole thing |
| 04:12:35
| <thl0> | substack: yep, just not trivial to get multiple source maps per bundle working |
| 04:13:50
| <thl0> | substack: I'll look into how [email protected] did it and possibly take a crack at it tom. unless you got other plans than just how it worked there |
| 04:15:56
| <thl0> | substack: maybe you could create a diff outlining how the sourcemaps should be generated? i.e. I'm not clear about " compile this source map data into a source map for the whole thing" |
| 04:19:33
| <thl0> | substack: lets talk tomorrow, gotta go |
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| <Domenic_> | @thl0: let me know if you start on that, otherwise I was planning on taking a crack at it this weekend |
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| <substack> | Domenic_: sweet! |
| 04:43:21
| <substack> | I would like the source map stuff to be out of the core modules though since core is already a little too big for my tastes already |
| 04:43:34
| <substack> | need to keep it small and nimble so we don't end up with the horrible mess that was v1 |
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| <ik> | DAYCHANGE! |
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| <Domenic_> | substack: +1, sourceURL as a transform plugin makes perfect sense. |
| 05:04:24
| <Domenic_> | I think maybe the readme should link to some popular or useful transforms, once they start springing up |
| 05:04:37
| <Domenic_> | e.g. CoffeeScript, sourceURL, etc. |
| 05:05:05
| <substack> | Domenic_: well not as a transform plugin as such |
| 05:05:38
| <substack> | but transform plugins should be able to tell the source mapping code about their internal mapping |
| 05:07:32
| <Domenic_> | hmm I was just thinking it'd be a transform plugin that turns <sourceCode> into Function("<sourceCode> //@sourceURL moduleId") |
| 05:16:38
| <substack> | dominictarr: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMj_P_6H69g |
| 05:18:14
| <dominictarr> | substack: ! I already watched that today ! |
| 05:20:37
| <dominictarr> | rvagg: https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/issues/86 |
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| <defunctzombie> | substack: you open to ever api changes? I want to remove the event emitter dependency and make the api simpler (not ness node.js eventEmitter like) |
| 05:32:15
| <defunctzombie> | .on |
| 05:32:17
| <defunctzombie> | .off |
| 05:32:18
| <defunctzombie> | .once |
| 05:32:20
| <defunctzombie> | .emit |
| 05:32:25
| <defunctzombie> | and that is it I think |
| 05:32:35
| <defunctzombie> | (shorter is better for client as well) |
| 05:33:00
| <defunctzombie> | ever.on(el, 'click', fn); |
| 05:33:04
| <defunctzombie> | I think could be nice too |
| 05:33:09
| <substack> | the ever description is "dom events with a node-style EventEmitter api" |
| 05:33:19
| <substack> | adding a non-event emitter api is out of scope |
| 05:33:57
| <substack> | I'd be open to factoring out the synthetic event creation code for use in other modules though |
| 05:34:20
| <defunctzombie> | kk |
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| 05:36:05
| <substack> | some module that fulfills the niche that ever fills needs to exist |
| 05:36:24
| <substack> | that's why I don't want to move the api in some other direction |
| 05:36:33
| <substack> | other api approaches should be handled by separate modules |
| 05:37:11
| <defunctzombie> | substack: I want to make the api and footprint smaller |
| 05:37:20
| <defunctzombie> | I don't see the point of require('events'); |
| 05:37:28
| <defunctzombie> | cause DOM stuff already manages all that |
| 05:37:41
| <substack> | the point of ever is that it gives you a node-style event-emitter api |
| 05:37:50
| <substack> | because the dom apis are complicated |
| 05:37:53
| <defunctzombie> | substack: https://github.com/shtylman/dom/blob/master/lib/event.js |
| 05:37:57
| <substack> | particularly creating synthetic events |
| 05:38:07
| <defunctzombie> | I ported some of the ever stuff |
| 05:38:14
| <defunctzombie> | and made it work on some other IEs |
| 05:38:49
| <defunctzombie> | substack: you can expose whatever api you want, you just don't need core events to do it :) |
| 05:39:09
| <defunctzombie> | substack: I think a lib to make synthetic events could be cool |
| 05:39:16
| <defunctzombie> | I never got them working in IE<8 iirc |
| 05:39:19
| <defunctzombie> | too much of a bitch |
| 05:39:49
| <substack> | defunctzombie: I don't like core dom events. I want to use node's event api |
| 05:40:06
| <defunctzombie> | substack: what do you mean? |
| 05:40:19
| <dominictarr> | defunctzombie: is there a module for synthetic events? |
| 05:40:25
| <dominictarr> | substack: ++ |
| 05:40:47
| <defunctzombie> | dominictarr: we have them in a few places |
| 05:40:51
| <defunctzombie> | dominictarr: but nothing great |
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| <substack> | defunctzombie: the reason why you and I both want a module is because core dom events are inadequate |
| 05:41:06
| <defunctzombie> | my point is you don't need to bring in core events to get the api |
| 05:41:20
| <substack> | the *point* of ever is that it uses node-style events |
| 05:41:26
| <substack> | *exactly* |
| 05:41:29
| <defunctzombie> | the browser already handles storing events for you |
| 05:41:37
| <defunctzombie> | and such |
| 05:41:49
| <defunctzombie> | substack: don't see why you have require('events') is all :/ |
| 05:41:59
| <defunctzombie> | makes the file larger for no reason |
| 05:42:24
| <defunctzombie> | substack: dominictarr: I will make a module for the synthetic event stuff from ever/my dom stuff |
| 05:42:40
| <defunctzombie> | so we can just have something generating synthetic events |
| 05:42:47
| <defunctzombie> | needs a name |
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| <substack> | synthetic-dom-events |
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| <dominictarr> | relocating |
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| <defunctzombie> | substack: which will do the "emit" part and that is it? right? |
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| <substack> | ye |
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| <substack> | p |
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| <Raynos> | substack: that video is cool |
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| 06:53:13
| <Raynos> | dominictarr: have you tried creating something like mouse position / mouse clicks / keyboard input as an observable? |
| 06:53:33
| <dominictarr> | yes |
| 06:53:44
| <dominictarr> | mouse position works well |
| 06:53:56
| <Raynos> | I ported a mario demo from elm to js ( https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5075037 ) |
| 06:54:14
| <Raynos> | I'm curious whether I can use observable instead of reducers |
| 06:54:21
| <Raynos> | for the signal implementation |
| 06:54:48
| <dominictarr> | Raynos: some of the functions are empty |
| 06:54:56
| <Raynos> | because they are a bitch to implement |
| 06:55:05
| <Raynos> | so I decide that was a tomorrow thing |
| 06:55:05
| <Raynos> | sec |
| 06:55:36
| <dominictarr> | Raynos: observable is for properties - not events |
| 06:55:46
| <Raynos> | oh interesting |
| 06:55:47
| <Raynos> | I forgot |
| 06:55:55
| <dominictarr> | so it works for position, hover, focus, input-value etc |
| 06:56:00
| <dominictarr> | but not for events |
| 06:56:36
| <dominictarr> | you could implement that as a property that is set for one frame, though |
| 06:57:00
| <dominictarr> | but… |
| 06:57:02
| <Raynos> | well actually |
| 06:57:10
| <Raynos> | all of this has dealt with just event streams |
| 06:57:12
| <Raynos> | and not properties |
| 06:57:13
| <dominictarr> | observable is about transforming state |
| 06:57:15
| <Raynos> | which is really nice |
| 06:57:38
| <dominictarr> | but a click/button press is a change in state |
| 06:57:53
| <Raynos> | well it doesnt need to be |
| 06:57:57
| <Raynos> | it can just be a stream of events |
| 06:58:00
| <dominictarr> | well of course it is |
| 06:58:08
| <dominictarr> | if I press jump |
| 06:58:22
| <dominictarr> | it increases my upward velocity |
| 06:58:26
| <dominictarr> | that is state |
| 06:58:29
| <Raynos> | yes |
| 06:58:36
| <Raynos> | but inputs dont need to be stateful |
| 06:58:39
| <Raynos> | its your app thats stateful |
| 06:58:59
| <Raynos> | i should comment that mario example in way more detail |
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| <dominictarr> | rvagg: https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/pull/87 |
| 07:11:15
| <Raynos> | added a bunch of comments ( https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5075037 ) |
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| 07:15:43
| <dominictarr> | Raynos: so, is the keyboard stream a stream of whether a given key is currently pressed? |
| 07:16:03
| <dominictarr> | like, a stream of the current keyboard state? |
| 07:16:12
| <Raynos> | I think keyboard arrows returns { x: 0, y: 0 } or { x: 1, y: -1 } etc |
| 07:16:16
| <Raynos> | 8 directional things |
| 07:16:54
| <dominictarr> | right, so If I am holding down "up" it is {x: 1} |
| 07:17:25
| <Raynos> | I think { x: 1, y: 0 } but yes |
| 07:17:26
| <Raynos> | https://github.com/Matt-Esch/arrow-keys |
| 07:17:31
| <dominictarr> | If you do it like this, it would work with observable |
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| <dominictarr> | https://github.com/dominictarr/level-sublevel |
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| 08:44:00
| <substack> | whoa |
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| <jez0990> | nice, and that should 'just work' with level-scuttlebutt right? |
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| <Raynos> | dominictarr: https://github.com/Raynos/signal/blob/master/examples/simple.js I wrote an elm-style FRP demo. |
| 10:22:57
| <Raynos> | I think the signal implementation is very similar to your observable |
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| <substack> | https://github.com/substack/node-browserify#list-of-source-transforms |
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| <juliangruber> | is there a way to filter twitter posts? I don't care about runkeeper stats but don't want to unfollow that person completely |
| 15:15:57
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| <ehd> | juliangruber: not in the api, but some apps support it |
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| <juliangruber> | ehd: can you tell me some? tweetbot doesn't have this feature |
| 16:31:17
| <juliangruber> | ehd: :O thank you very much! |
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| <defunctzombie> | substack: http://ci.testling.com/shtylman/synthetic-dom-events |
| 17:31:52
| <defunctzombie> | seems to get stuck some |
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| 17:48:13
| <mikeal> | substack: you awake yet? |
| 17:52:16
| <substack> | yes but |
| 17:52:50
| <substack> | is this on skype or google hangouts or something else? |
| 17:54:07
| <defunctzombie> | also the test results are inconsistent across different runs of the same commit :( |
| 17:58:09
| <pkrumins> | yes it's hanging all the time |
| 18:06:32
| <guybrush_> | juliangruber: just use https://twitter.com/search-advanced |
| 18:06:45
| <guybrush_> | it works pretty amazing |
| 18:08:25
| <juliangruber> | guybrush_: https://twitter.com/search/timeline?q=-runkeeper it's empty, what am I doing wrong? |
| 18:08:57
| <guybrush_> | i guess you didnt add a person |
| 18:09:09
| <defunctzombie> | pkrumins: just browsers being stupid? |
| 18:09:18
| <substack> | bugs with sandboxie |
| 18:09:23
| <defunctzombie> | ah |
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| 18:44:01
| <defunctzombie> | testling webpage should update automatically when tests finish :) |
| 18:48:03
| <defunctzombie> | nice! http://ci.testling.com/shtylman/synthetic-dom-events |
| 18:48:09
| <defunctzombie> | starting to get IE covered |
| 18:48:23
| <defunctzombie> | need to find an IE 7 box if I care about that |
| 18:48:29
| <defunctzombie> | 6 is probably a lost cause |
| 18:49:10
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| 18:57:33
| <substack> | 7 and 6 are pretty similar though |
| 18:57:46
| <substack> | as far as the js engines are concerned |
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| 19:21:42
| <ralphtheninja> | how do you trace in Writable without getting too much recursion? :) |
| 19:23:24
| <ralphtheninja> | stream.Writable* |
| 19:24:27
| <ralphtheninja> | aaah I can emit stuff instead obviously .. nevermind .. just needed some rubber ducking |
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| 19:28:07
| <defunctzombie> | substack: where do you get firefox 3.6? |
| 19:28:31
| <defunctzombie> | I don't want to download from some ghetto website |
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| 19:34:01
| <defunctzombie> | substack: browserify shouldn't insert a leading ';' in the final output methinks |
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| 19:35:31
| <juliangruber> | defunctzombie: why not? it's the safe way |
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| 19:36:11
| <defunctzombie> | juliangruber: makes it harder to inline for standalone scripts |
| 19:37:30
| <substack> | true |
| 19:39:43
| <defunctzombie> | I actually am not sure how to make a single standalone that will export itself into a var |
| 19:39:49
| <defunctzombie> | via the cli itself |
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| 19:43:14
| <defunctzombie> | ideally there would be an easy way to have makefile target to just create standalone files |
| 19:43:46
| <defunctzombie> | that export to some var for users who just want to experiment and don't have browserify installed |
| 19:44:26
| <juliangruber> | pipe the result of browserbuild (or how it's called) to an exportify stream |
| 19:45:02
| <juliangruber> | *browser-pack |
| 19:45:15
| <defunctzombie> | I don't think exportify is for this |
| 19:45:39
| <juliangruber> | exportify is just a name, I didn't know exportify existed |
| 19:45:44
| <defunctzombie> | haha |
| 19:46:12
| <juliangruber> | :) |
| 19:50:42
| <defunctzombie> | the default leading ';' makes me sadpanda |
| 19:51:04
| <defunctzombie> | it means you can't return the script or anything by prefixing |
| 19:53:02
| <defunctzombie> | I just want output like " qr = (...browserified bundle of qr-element exporing single entry point); |
| 19:54:02
| <substack> | send a patch |
| 19:54:10
| <defunctzombie> | never! |
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| 19:57:50
| <defunctzombie> | self contained bundles are awesome, running advanced minifcation on them is nice |
| 20:06:57
| <defunctzombie> | I am gonna start numbering things using backwards semver |
| 20:07:02
| <defunctzombie> | start at 999.999.999 |
| 20:07:04
| <defunctzombie> | and work to 0 |
| 20:07:14
| <defunctzombie> | when I get to 0, package can no longer be updated |
| 20:07:29
| <ralphtheninja> | nah, just go negative |
| 20:07:35
| <ralphtheninja> | :) |
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| 20:13:18
| <juliangruber> | at least start at 1.0.0 because that you took the name for the module was the first breaking change |
| 20:13:57
| <juliangruber> | or start with 6.6.6 and never leave that \m/ |
| 20:20:42
| <defunctzombie> | haha |
| 20:26:05
| <ehd> | is there something that allows creating peer connections in node to talk to, e.g., a browser via datachannel? |
| 20:26:42
| <ehd> | i saw data-channel but that's about transporting streams over datachannels |
| 20:32:41
| <defunctzombie> | IE7 doesn't have a js console |
| 20:32:42
| <defunctzombie> | wtf |
| 20:32:50
| <defunctzombie> | how do people develop in this piece of shit? |
| 20:34:09
| <Raynos> | juliangruber: can you not run the example on Signal? |
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| 20:43:11
| <jesusabdullah> | I'm gonna go LaTeX numbering style and asymptotically approach a transcendential number |
| 20:43:27
| <jesusabdullah> | version 0.1, 0.14, 0.1495... you get the idea |
| 20:45:26
| <defunctzombie> | substack: http://ci.testling.com/shtylman/synthetic-dom-events oh yea.. starting to get more browser coverage haha |
| 20:45:34
| <defunctzombie> | IE is such a ghetto wasteland |
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| 20:54:24
| <defunctzombie> | now just need more tests for all the various event crap |
| 21:02:43
| <jesusabdullah> | that reminds me |
| 21:02:53
| <jesusabdullah> | fucked with a win8 pc at LHR |
| 21:03:11
| <jesusabdullah> | metro is basically ie's version of chrome/firefox apps |
| 21:03:20
| <jesusabdullah> | full-screened |
| 21:03:21
| <jesusabdullah> | that's it |
| 21:03:26
| <jesusabdullah> | IMPRESSIVE (not) |
| 21:03:30
| <jesusabdullah> | but whatever :) |
| 21:03:57
| <thl0> | defunctzombie: try IE8, use dev tools and turn IE7 compatibility mode on |
| 21:04:28
| <thl0> | that is the best way to debug most things (except CSS problems) |
| 21:05:48
| <thl0> | IE8 at least has a dev console, but no console on the window, but you can easily shim that |
| 21:06:42
| <thl0> | substack: are there any plans concerning source{Maps,Urls}? |
| 21:07:00
| <thl0> | substack: without them it would be mighty hard to debug a decent sized app |
| 21:07:20
| <thl0> | substack: so at this point for these projects I'd still have to use [email protected] |
| 21:08:14
| <substack> | thl0: want to build them? |
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| 21:08:32
| <substack> | I'm planning on it, but not for a few days |
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| 21:08:43
| <thl0> | substack: if you could point me to the right places I'd take a crack at it |
| 21:08:54
| <substack> | https://github.com/substack/browser-pack |
| 21:08:58
| <thl0> | substack: i.e., what should they look like |
| 21:09:32
| <substack> | https://npmjs.org/package/source-map |
| 21:10:38
| <thl0> | substack: I'll take a look - I assume this option would become part of browser-pack instead of a separate module? |
| 21:10:57
| <substack> | probably yes |
| 21:12:21
| <thl0> | substack: ok - and I'd take a dependency on source-map module or is it just to learn/get inspired? |
| 21:12:29
| <jesusabdullah> | interneeet |
| 21:12:31
| <jesusabdullah> | internet! |
| 21:12:50
| <substack> | thl0: as a dependency |
| 21:12:56
| <substack> | unless you find a better one |
| 21:13:13
| <substack> | jesusabdullah: welcome! to the internet. |
| 21:13:17
| <thl0> | substack: got it - will give it a go |
| 21:14:32
| <jesusabdullah> | substack: The only limit is yourself |
| 21:14:36
| <jesusabdullah> | substack: :D |
| 21:18:41
| <jesusabdullah> | good luck th10! |
| 21:21:18
| <substack> | you can do anything with the internet |
| 21:21:23
| <substack> | anything at all |
| 21:25:02
| <thl0> | jesusabdullah: thanks, current status - reading up on sourcemaps (https://wiki.mozilla.org/DevTools/Features/SourceMap) |
| 21:26:04
| <thl0> | not much there though - is there a better resource? |
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| 21:29:07
| <thl0> | substack: only other reference is (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U1RGAehQwRypUTovF1KRlpiOFze0b-_2gc6fAH0KY0k/edit) - do other browsers like chrome implement this? |
| 21:30:09
| <substack> | thl0: the source-map module generates the sourceURL data |
| 21:30:21
| <defunctzombie> | about to make the synthetic dom event api even simpler based on some feedback mwahaha |
| 21:30:21
| <substack> | and there's a way to base64 encode that url to put the maps inline |
| 21:31:51
| <thl0> | substack: you are talking about the one liner sourcemaps like //@ sourceMappingURL=<url> right? |
| 21:32:08
| <thl0> | cause they mention another option for concatenated files |
| 21:33:06
| <substack> | yep the url thing |
| 21:34:37
| <thl0> | substack: ok, and that would necessitate the code for each module to be sent as a string and then evaled via Function(..) as was done in v1 right? |
| 21:34:57
| <thl0> | otherwise I don't see how you get multiple source maps for one file |
| 21:35:10
| <thl0> | substack: see: http://blog.getfirebug.com/2009/08/11/give-your-eval-a-name-with-sourceurl/ |
| 21:39:26
| <defunctzombie> | soucemaps.. the future is now |
| 21:39:37
| <substack> | thl0: oh it doesn't work with multiple files in the same bundle without Function()? |
| 21:39:42
| <substack> | fuck that is so useless |
| 21:39:53
| <substack> | might as well just use //@ sourceURL= then |
| 21:39:57
| <substack> | that is really easy |
| 21:40:11
| <thl0> | substack: yeah, like v1 |
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| 21:42:11
| <substack> | why can't we have nice things ;_; |
| 21:42:15
| <thl0> | substack: unless I'm missing something sourcemaps are per file only i.e. this file maps to this unminified one |
| 21:43:10
| <thl0> | substack: looks like there are some ways to specify line numbers to support concatenation like described here(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U1RGAehQwRypUTovF1KRlpiOFze0b-_2gc6fAH0KY0k/edit#heading=h.535es3xeprgt) |
| 21:43:34
| <thl0> | just not sure how much of this actually already works consistently across different browsers |
| 21:44:36
| <substack> | that part isn't too important |
| 21:44:38
| <thl0> | substack: I'll do a bit more research and get back with you - possibly we just do //@ sourceURL .. for now with the evaled Function and improve later once these proposals becom reality |
| 21:44:49
| <substack> | just the popular ones devs use is fine for debugging |
| 21:45:51
| <thl0> | substack: but it is important for concatenated code (like the bundle) "To support concatenating generated code ..." - includes line numbers |
| 21:46:04
| <thl0> | and sections |
| 21:46:42
| <thl0> | looks like you can only have one sourceMappingUrl per file otherwise: "The generated code may include a line at the end of the source" |
| 21:46:52
| <substack> | updated https://github.com/substack/straggler |
| 21:47:10
| <substack> | simpler api, got rid of the config stuff |
| 21:47:15
| <substack> | and it supports duplex now |
| 21:50:28
| <thl0> | substack: reading the tests however it looks like multi mappings per file are possible - https://github.com/mozilla/source-map/blob/master/test/source-map/test-dog-fooding.js#L21-L43 |
| 21:51:10
| <thl0> | substack: so this may take some time playing with things until I find a good solution |
| 21:52:13
| <defunctzombie> | I believe in you @thl0 |
| 21:53:02
| <thl0> | defunctzombie: :) thanks - where there is time there will be a way ... eventually |
| 21:54:18
| <defunctzombie> | yes |
| 21:54:36
| <defunctzombie> | substack: ok, syth events api changed to just return the event created and do nothing about emitting it |
| 21:54:41
| <defunctzombie> | that is left to other libs |
| 21:54:56
| <defunctzombie> | also, firefox 3.6 should work now haha |
| 21:55:01
| <defunctzombie> | all the fucking browsers! |
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| 21:57:13
| <thl0> | btw, @substack did you see the new browserify-shim? works with [email protected] - https://github.com/thlorenz/browserify-shim |
| 21:59:46
| <defunctzombie> | thl0: nice |
| 21:59:59
| <defunctzombie> | I still don't get why people don't add a module.exports = '$' rofl |
| 22:00:03
| <defunctzombie> | it is so trivial |
| 22:00:08
| <thl0> | defunctzombie: thanks - especially coming from you ;) |
| 22:00:40
| <defunctzombie> | must be some mental block about "vendor" files being some golden magic we cannot touch or something |
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| 22:00:49
| <thl0> | defunctzombie: well we had this discussion - the less you have to do to use browserify the better (even if it seems trivial) |
| 22:01:27
| <defunctzombie> | yea, I just take the approach of fix it once and everyone benefits |
| 22:01:30
| <thl0> | defunctzombie: on a larger project someone may just decide to upgrade without understanding that a module was modded, build breaks and guess who is blamed? |
| 22:01:39
| <defunctzombie> | versus having to know.. oh I shim this or I don't shim that :/ |
| 22:02:00
| <defunctzombie> | thl0: the person that upgraded without understanding |
| 22:02:07
| <defunctzombie> | vendor files may always contain fixes |
| 22:02:15
| <defunctzombie> | can't take the "thinking" out of programming :) |
| 22:02:27
| <defunctzombie> | also why I hate jquery.. too big to reason about :( |
| 22:02:34
| <thl0> | defunctzombie: you would think, but no, that new library gets blamed, i.e. browserify |
| 22:03:08
| <defunctzombie> | I just let them blame whatever and just continue getting things done at 10x their speed and with a cleaner codebase at the end |
| 22:03:12
| <defunctzombie> | ;) |
| 22:03:33
| <thl0> | defunctzombie: I think both approaches are valid and I'm just trying to allow people of either opinion to start using browserfy |
| 22:03:43
| <defunctzombie> | yep |
| 22:03:49
| <defunctzombie> | makes sense |
| 22:03:58
| <defunctzombie> | I would rather just educate but that is me :) |
| 22:04:15
| <defunctzombie> | I find people that live in ignorance of what is really happening are the bad programmers |
| 22:04:20
| <defunctzombie> | and I don't work with bad programmers |
| 22:04:23
| * defunctzombie | is lucky |
| 22:09:04
| <jesusabdullah> | ralphtheninja: I see you like my ip address app XD |
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| 22:21:42
| <defunctzombie> | isaacs: is there a way to see what versions of a module I have deprecated? |
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| 22:32:36
| <ins0mnia> | defunctzombie: did you get the chance to look into "can not find module 2" issue when using b.require(modulepath, {expose:name}) followed by b.require(entry.js, {entry:true})? |
| 22:33:03
| <defunctzombie> | ins0mnia: there have been a number of fixes since then and that issue doesn't occur any more |
| 22:33:33
| <ins0mnia> | defunctzombie: cool, I'll npm install and check |
| 22:34:30
| <ins0mnia> | ah you're already on 2.4.1 |
| 22:35:07
| <ins0mnia> | yup, this solved the issue :) |
| 22:35:11
| <ins0mnia> | thank you :) |
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| 22:39:15
| <thl0> | substack: good news, chrome seems to support the proposed format that source-map spits out |
| 22:39:21
| <thl0> | sample: {"version":3,"file":"try.js","sources":["try-one.js","try-two.js"],"names":[],"mappings":";EAAA,AAEA;CCFA","sourceRoot":"/public/js"}' |
| 22:40:28
| <thl0> | you can map each original line/column to the generated line/column |
| 22:40:33
| <ralphtheninja> | jesusabdullah: yeah :) |
| 22:40:48
| <ralphtheninja> | simple and most of all, it works :) |
| 22:41:18
| <defunctzombie> | ins0mnia: glad to hear it, thank substack for tracking that one down :) |
| 22:42:56
| <ins0mnia> | substack: tusen takk :) |
| 22:43:09
| <ins0mnia> | (that's thanks in norwegian) |
| 22:43:56
| * ins0mnia | back to smoking Jasmine flower extract |
| 22:44:30
| <mbalho> | tjholowaychuk quote: "Browserify is a lot more like building monolithic rails-style apps" |
| 22:44:40
| <mbalho> | WAT |
| 22:44:49
| <mbalho> | http://www.forbeslindesay.co.uk/post/44144487088/browserify-vs-component |
| 22:45:01
| <ralphtheninja> | lol |
| 22:45:51
| <ins0mnia> | wtf is component |
| 22:46:05
| <mbalho> | read the post |
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| 22:46:45
| <ins0mnia> | I have, just don't understand the need to invent something new when something that works well already exists |
| 22:46:50
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: yea, he said that to me on irc :) |
| 22:48:02
| <mbalho> | is he just spreading FUD or is there an actual argument there, cause I dont understand what he means at all |
| 22:50:13
| <defunctzombie> | FUD |
| 22:50:15
| <defunctzombie> | imho |
| 22:50:51
| <defunctzombie> | cause the comment does not make sense at all |
| 22:51:06
| <defunctzombie> | all browserify is is the "js packing" part of component anyhow |
| 22:52:10
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: I don't see what their issue with browserify is personally since you can make things as modular as you want |
| 22:52:18
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: and iwth component, there is no versioning |
| 22:52:31
| <mbalho> | defunctzombie: really? |
| 22:52:33
| <defunctzombie> | which is asinine |
| 22:52:40
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: look at every component file |
| 22:52:46
| <defunctzombie> | and tell me how the versions are specified |
| 22:53:26
| <mbalho> | defunctzombie: first one i went to https://github.com/visionmedia/superagent/blob/master/component.json#L5 |
| 22:53:43
| <defunctzombie> | you are looking at the wrong part |
| 22:53:44
| <defunctzombie> | https://github.com/visionmedia/superagent/blob/master/component.json#L16-L19 |
| 22:54:27
| <mbalho> | thats the authors choice to put a wildcard in |
| 22:54:43
| <mbalho> | you made it sound like it didnt support versions |
| 22:54:45
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: ;) |
| 22:54:51
| <defunctzombie> | try to put a version in there |
| 22:54:58
| <defunctzombie> | and see if the install tool does anything with it |
| 22:55:06
| <mbalho> | not worth my time :) |
| 22:55:08
| <defunctzombie> | I think you will find that there is no concept of versions |
| 22:55:15
| <defunctzombie> | because the tool doesn't support it |
| 22:55:21
| <defunctzombie> | that is why you see '*' everywhere |
| 22:55:37
| <defunctzombie> | the version in component.json:version field is not used |
| 22:55:50
| <mbalho> | is there an open issue on the component repo for this? |
| 22:56:14
| <defunctzombie> | https://github.com/component/component/issues/96 |
| 22:56:35
| <ralphtheninja> | what's the difference between juliangruber/shoe and substack/shoe? |
| 22:56:41
| <ralphtheninja> | noticed shoe as a component |
| 22:56:51
| <mbalho> | defunctzombie: lol wow |
| 22:57:20
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: yep |
| 22:57:34
| <mbalho> | ralphtheninja: julian forked the repo and added a component.json because component doesnt use NPM |
| 22:57:40
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: the problem is.. the component folks rolled "registry" and "build tool" into one thing |
| 22:57:42
| <ralphtheninja> | mbalho: ✔ |
| 22:57:45
| <defunctzombie> | and I don't agree with that |
| 22:57:58
| <defunctzombie> | I think there can be a registry of javascript things |
| 22:58:07
| <defunctzombie> | independent of how you package them |
| 22:58:17
| <defunctzombie> | and browserify proves this imho |
| 22:59:28
| <mbalho> | can we at least write a compatibility layer for component.js so we can browserify them? |
| 22:59:41
| <mbalho> | like a proxy on nodejitsu or something that npm installs thema nyway |
| 22:59:42
| <isaacs> | defunctzombie: npm view [email protected]'*' deprecated |
| 22:59:53
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: waste of fucking time imho |
| 23:00:18
| <defunctzombie> | and unsafe cause of their lax dependency policy |
| 23:00:23
| <defunctzombie> | isaacs: thanks :) |
| 23:01:12
| <mbalho> | lax dependency policy arguably matters to most people, and there are some useful things that i would use if i could npm install them https://github.com/component/component/wiki/Components |
| 23:01:58
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: lax dependency policy is a no go |
| 23:02:05
| <defunctzombie> | '*' is 100% wrong always |
| 23:02:22
| <defunctzombie> | and I don't want to deal with the mess it causes because developers are stupid |
| 23:02:23
| <mbalho> | my point was that most people dont care, you are just particular |
| 23:02:25
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: just port them |
| 23:02:33
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: most people don't develop anything worth a shit then |
| 23:02:39
| <defunctzombie> | I work with people who do care |
| 23:02:43
| <mbalho> | lol |
| 23:02:44
| <defunctzombie> | cause when shit breaks that is bad |
| 23:02:57
| <defunctzombie> | and people have to fix it |
| 23:03:08
| <defunctzombie> | and all these fucking morons don't understand that at all |
| 23:03:16
| * defunctzombie | sorry.. it is just stupid |
| 23:03:19
| <mbalho> | step 1) fix the world |
| 23:03:26
| <mbalho> | same as semantic web |
| 23:03:32
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: anyhow.. just port them |
| 23:03:32
| <mbalho> | if only people used metadata more effectively! |
| 23:03:41
| <mbalho> | too bad that isnt practical |
| 23:03:46
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: why not? |
| 23:03:52
| <defunctzombie> | I think it would be very easy |
| 23:04:00
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: point me to one you like? |
| 23:04:05
| <mbalho> | one what? |
| 23:04:09
| <mbalho> | a component? |
| 23:04:21
| <defunctzombie> | sure |
| 23:04:26
| <defunctzombie> | that you don't think porting would be practical |
| 23:04:41
| * mikolalysenko | quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 23:04:59
| <mbalho> | ive tried porting |
| 23:05:05
| <dominictarr> | defunctzombie: you care about this more than other people because you don't check in deps |
| 23:05:13
| <mbalho> | most times they use the stupid component emitter instead of nodes emitter |
| 23:05:15
| <mbalho> | its all NIH |
| 23:05:32
| <defunctzombie> | dominictarr: checking in deps is noise |
| 23:05:44
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: yea, you can easily use theirs tho |
| 23:05:48
| <dominictarr> | yes, but only do that for applications |
| 23:06:03
| <dominictarr> | anyway, that is what lots of people do |
| 23:06:14
| <defunctzombie> | it still doesn't solve the issues of history |
| 23:06:18
| <defunctzombie> | and coming back to things |
| 23:06:40
| <dominictarr> | anyway, that solves this problem, because you have tested everything |
| 23:06:49
| <defunctzombie> | dominictarr: anyhow.. doesn't matter.. I only use shit I can trust or pin it myself |
| 23:06:54
| <defunctzombie> | because people are too stupid |
| 23:07:01
| <defunctzombie> | I have given up trying to convince the ones that don't get it |
| 23:07:12
| <defunctzombie> | they are the ones that usually write breaking code anyway :) |
| 23:07:20
| <defunctzombie> | so I avoid it |
| 23:07:35
| <defunctzombie> | if I can't come back to some code in 6 months |
| 23:07:37
| <dominictarr> | people ARE too stupid |
| 23:07:40
| <defunctzombie> | and install the same deps |
| 23:07:44
| * mikeal | joined |
| 23:07:48
| <defunctzombie> | then that is a big fucking problem |
| 23:08:02
| <dominictarr> | but just remember #stackvm is people too |
| 23:08:09
| <dominictarr> | #STACKVM IS PEOPLE |
| 23:08:09
| <LOUDBOT> | DO YOU KNOW HOW FAST YOU WERE- OH SHIT WOLVES |
| 23:08:10
| <defunctzombie> | stackvm is awesome people :) |
| 23:08:13
| <defunctzombie> | wow |
| 23:08:32
| <dominictarr> | yes, but still people who make mistakes |
| 23:08:52
| <defunctzombie> | dominictarr: yep, and that is why you have to limit mistake exposure |
| 23:08:58
| <defunctzombie> | '*' is not limiting exposure |
| 23:09:09
| <defunctzombie> | anywho.. I don't want to rant about deps again |
| 23:09:14
| <dominictarr> | defunctzombie: no one disagrees with you about * |
| 23:09:17
| <dominictarr> | * is madness |
| 23:09:43
| <dominictarr> | but somepeople use ~x.y.z or ~x.y |
| 23:09:46
| <defunctzombie> | dominictarr: yea, was just telling mbalho about it earlier (he asked about component, so) |
| 23:10:01
| <defunctzombie> | dominictarr: ~x.y.z is the most I can reasonably stomach for a dep |
| 23:10:21
| <defunctzombie> | everything else is too open cause in 6 months you will get a completely different codebase |
| 23:10:39
| <ralphtheninja> | lazyness bites you in the ass sooner or later |
| 23:10:48
| <defunctzombie> | yea |
| 23:11:03
| <ralphtheninja> | instead of adding a few extra seconds to just type x.y.z in and change it later when you are sure |
| 23:11:17
| <defunctzombie> | I personally think that if the underlying modules are changing so quickly that you need ~x.y then you might need a cool off period |
| 23:11:21
| <dominictarr> | defunctzombie: fair enough |
| 23:11:34
| <dominictarr> | sometimes I use ~x.y on stable modules I control |
| 23:11:38
| <ralphtheninja> | sorry, didnt mean to pour gasoline on the fire :) |
| 23:11:49
| <defunctzombie> | dominictarr: right.. that is because you control them so you have a distorted opinion of it |
| 23:12:09
| <defunctzombie> | dominictarr: but it is important to also not have that opinion on modules you control |
| 23:12:19
| <mbalho> | ok if pegging versions is the one true way then what tools need to exist to make the maintainence overhead go away? |
| 23:12:21
| <defunctzombie> | cause then you might forget about the impact a change can have |
| 23:12:35
| <dominictarr> | problem is, and this is what that big semver discussion revealed to me, is that people need to communicate what their intensions are for a module |
| 23:12:35
| <mbalho> | npm install npm-old -g |
| 23:12:36
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: https://david-dm.org/shtylman/node-enchilada |
| 23:12:39
| <defunctzombie> | that is a great tool |
| 23:12:44
| <dominictarr> | like if the module is expecimental |
| 23:12:47
| <defunctzombie> | he is adding rss feeds too |
| 23:12:59
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: also, npmedge I have found helpful, and I use docserv |
| 23:13:05
| <defunctzombie> | whcih tells me when things are outdated |
| 23:13:13
| <mbalho> | defunctzombie: you shoudl put all these in a blog post or s omething |
| 23:13:13
| <defunctzombie> | and I can look into it further |
| 23:13:24
| <ralphtheninja> | defunctzombie: nice link |
| 23:13:32
| <ralphtheninja> | yeah write some shit about it! |
| 23:13:52
| * defunctzombie | has created a post-it note to "write some shit about it" |
| 23:13:53
| <mbalho> | defunctzombie: do you know anything that tries each new version of each dep and tells you the first one that breaks your test suite? |
| 23:14:28
| <defunctzombie> | mbalho: nope, but that would be easy to build and awesome :) |
| 23:14:37
| <defunctzombie> | ideally working from the latest version of the dep back to older ones |
| 23:14:48
| <mbalho> | dominictarr: in wellington we were scheming on tools like this, do you remember the details of the command line tool we dreamed up? |
| 23:15:03
| <mbalho> | defunctzombie: i was thinking it would try all the new versions if your deps are otu of date |
| 23:15:07
| * ralphtheninja | writes a note about reminding defunctzombie to write some shit about it |
| 23:15:11
| <mbalho> | defunctzombie: oh i see |
| 23:15:15
| <mbalho> | defunctzombie: yea that makes sense |
| 23:16:09
| <ralphtheninja> | and app could use this tool (or something else) to notice if it's out of date and remind the author about it |
| 23:16:15
| <ralphtheninja> | an app* |
| 23:16:15
| <chrisdickinson> | silly achievement of the day: http://f.cl.ly/items/343U2z3z2b2y2o323J3z/ps1.png egregious use of redis to pull github / fitbit metadata into my ps1. |
| 23:16:29
| <defunctzombie> | hahaha |
| 23:16:31
| * mikeal | quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 23:16:45
| <chrisdickinson> | the relevant, awful code: https://gist.github.com/chrisdickinson/59cb34aa3ea03aa27653 |
| 23:17:11
| * dominictarr | quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 23:17:11
| <defunctzombie> | kill it with fire |
| 23:19:12
| <ralphtheninja> | chrisdickinson: nice :) |
| 23:20:29
| <chrisdickinson> | oh god just read tj's comments from the linked article |
| 23:21:03
| <chrisdickinson> | and now i have a sad |
| 23:22:58
| <ehd> | which? |
| 23:23:08
| * dominictarr | joined |
| 23:24:17
| * defunctzombie | changed nick to defunctzombie_zz |
| 23:31:43
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| 23:36:02
| * kenperkins | quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) |
| 23:37:50
| <dominictarr> | rvagg: got a new version of the safe-patch branch that is simpler, and should have less thing[name] checks |
| 23:38:12
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| 23:38:18
| <rvagg> | dominictarr: cool, will have a look |
| 23:38:30
| <dominictarr> | just benchmarking it now |
| 23:38:42
| <dominictarr> | how should I interpret the benchmarks? |
| 23:38:52
| <rvagg> | dominictarr: with caution... |
| 23:39:11
| <rvagg> | ignore the x100 benchmarks for a start, care only about the LevelUP vs LevelUP (release) numbers |
| 23:39:12
| <dominictarr> | I want "LevelUP" to be ahead of "LevelUP (release)" |
| 23:39:22
| <rvagg> | the x1000 are the most interesting for get and put |
| 23:39:50
| <rvagg> | you want it to be within +/- 5% of the LevelUP (release), doesn't have to be ahead, you just don't want it to be out of range |
| 23:40:39
| <rvagg> | if you run it a few times and you're getting pretty much the same numbers and you're consistently lower than (release) then you might want to tinker with your approach |
| 23:41:48
| <dominictarr> | my new approach doesn't only changes the code path while opening |
| 23:42:03
| <dominictarr> | when the database is opened, it just works exactly like it did |
| 23:44:09
| * mikeal | joined |
| 23:46:36
| <rvagg> | ok, sounds good |
| 23:46:44
| <rvagg> | push to your branch and we'll have a look |
| 23:58:24
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| 23:59:50
| <dominictarr> | rvagg: updated https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/pull/87#issuecomment-14357547 |