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00:16:26  <ralphtheninja>isaacs: you do drink whiskey right?
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00:25:44  <isaacs>ralphtheninja: yes.
00:26:02  <isaacs>ralphtheninja: godo whiskey is my drink of choice
00:26:20  <ralphtheninja>isaacs: ✔
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00:46:28  <rvagg>mbalho: someone's moving in on your cat mapping turf: http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/03/demographics-cat-map-plots-locations-names-and-colors-of-london-felines/
00:46:38  <mbalho>its cool i have the patent
01:15:19  <niftylettuce>anyone here use node-qt?
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02:15:22  <hij1nx>Raynos: the recording quality came out really good!
02:15:36  <Raynos>nice :)
02:15:51  <Raynos>trim my rambling down to just the good bits
02:15:56  <ralphtheninja>hij1nx: cool!
02:16:06  <hij1nx>ralphtheninja: haha, totally, so far the editing is magical
02:16:13  <hij1nx>ralphtheninja: you want to do one?
02:16:19  <ralphtheninja>it's gonna be epic :)
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02:16:35  <ralphtheninja>not sure what I would talk about, a little busy now though
02:16:50  <ralphtheninja>I can check the checklist
02:16:55  <hij1nx>ralphtheninja: ok, let me know when
02:17:53  <ralphtheninja>what have you talked about already?
02:18:24  <hij1nx>Raynos talked about userland/core and how the pattern is node like
02:46:24  <Raynos>o/
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03:14:58  * defunctzombieturning flot into a jquery-less canvas graph lib
03:15:59  <defunctzombie>anyone have any better recommendations?
03:18:04  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/fat/bean
03:18:07  <defunctzombie>how am I just finding this
03:18:37  <defunctzombie>although it seems really complex
03:20:12  <defunctzombie>substack: I kinda want to merge the api of "bean" above and "ever" some
03:20:16  <defunctzombie>and add more tests :)
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03:46:36  <thl0>is there any module yet to add sourceMaps to [email protected] ?
03:46:53  <thl0>otherwise I'd write a transformer that does that
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03:55:10  <thl0>sourceUrl that is (always get those confused(
04:03:04  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: https://github.com/dominictarr/semver-ftw/issues/2#issuecomment-14341178
04:04:00  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: personal take is that the stability index is a lie
04:04:19  <defunctzombie>the maintainer will break it when they feel like they want to if they personally find a good reason
04:04:43  <defunctzombie>no one is gonna commit to anything for eternity, that is why we have breaking version numbers :/
04:06:47  <defunctzombie>I also will add that versioning is completely made up by everyone at all times and major.minor.patch are just hints to end users
04:06:58  <defunctzombie>and mean nothing in reality
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04:11:33  <substack>thl0: to support source maps I'm thinking that module-deps can output extra data into the json stream about the original source files
04:11:55  <substack>and module-deps handles running the transform code so transforms could specify file-specific source map data
04:12:25  <substack>then browser-pack should compile this source map data into a source map for the whole thing
04:12:35  <thl0>substack: yep, just not trivial to get multiple source maps per bundle working
04:13:50  <thl0>substack: I'll look into how [email protected] did it and possibly take a crack at it tom. unless you got other plans than just how it worked there
04:15:56  <thl0>substack: maybe you could create a diff outlining how the sourcemaps should be generated? i.e. I'm not clear about " compile this source map data into a source map for the whole thing"
04:19:33  <thl0>substack: lets talk tomorrow, gotta go
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04:31:01  <Domenic_>@thl0: let me know if you start on that, otherwise I was planning on taking a crack at it this weekend
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04:42:56  <substack>Domenic_: sweet!
04:43:21  <substack>I would like the source map stuff to be out of the core modules though since core is already a little too big for my tastes already
04:43:34  <substack>need to keep it small and nimble so we don't end up with the horrible mess that was v1
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05:00:54  <ik>DAYCHANGE!
05:04:09  <Domenic_>substack: +1, sourceURL as a transform plugin makes perfect sense.
05:04:24  <Domenic_>I think maybe the readme should link to some popular or useful transforms, once they start springing up
05:04:37  <Domenic_>e.g. CoffeeScript, sourceURL, etc.
05:05:05  <substack>Domenic_: well not as a transform plugin as such
05:05:38  <substack>but transform plugins should be able to tell the source mapping code about their internal mapping
05:07:32  <Domenic_>hmm I was just thinking it'd be a transform plugin that turns <sourceCode> into Function("<sourceCode> //@sourceURL moduleId")
05:16:38  <substack>dominictarr: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMj_P_6H69g
05:18:14  <dominictarr>substack: ! I already watched that today !
05:20:37  <dominictarr>rvagg: https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/issues/86
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05:32:12  <defunctzombie>substack: you open to ever api changes? I want to remove the event emitter dependency and make the api simpler (not ness node.js eventEmitter like)
05:32:15  <defunctzombie>.on
05:32:17  <defunctzombie>.off
05:32:18  <defunctzombie>.once
05:32:20  <defunctzombie>.emit
05:32:25  <defunctzombie>and that is it I think
05:32:35  <defunctzombie>(shorter is better for client as well)
05:33:00  <defunctzombie>ever.on(el, 'click', fn);
05:33:04  <defunctzombie>I think could be nice too
05:33:09  <substack>the ever description is "dom events with a node-style EventEmitter api"
05:33:19  <substack>adding a non-event emitter api is out of scope
05:33:57  <substack>I'd be open to factoring out the synthetic event creation code for use in other modules though
05:34:20  <defunctzombie>kk
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05:36:05  <substack>some module that fulfills the niche that ever fills needs to exist
05:36:24  <substack>that's why I don't want to move the api in some other direction
05:36:33  <substack>other api approaches should be handled by separate modules
05:37:11  <defunctzombie>substack: I want to make the api and footprint smaller
05:37:20  <defunctzombie>I don't see the point of require('events');
05:37:28  <defunctzombie>cause DOM stuff already manages all that
05:37:41  <substack>the point of ever is that it gives you a node-style event-emitter api
05:37:50  <substack>because the dom apis are complicated
05:37:53  <defunctzombie>substack: https://github.com/shtylman/dom/blob/master/lib/event.js
05:37:57  <substack>particularly creating synthetic events
05:38:07  <defunctzombie>I ported some of the ever stuff
05:38:14  <defunctzombie>and made it work on some other IEs
05:38:49  <defunctzombie>substack: you can expose whatever api you want, you just don't need core events to do it :)
05:39:09  <defunctzombie>substack: I think a lib to make synthetic events could be cool
05:39:16  <defunctzombie>I never got them working in IE<8 iirc
05:39:19  <defunctzombie>too much of a bitch
05:39:49  <substack>defunctzombie: I don't like core dom events. I want to use node's event api
05:40:06  <defunctzombie>substack: what do you mean?
05:40:19  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: is there a module for synthetic events?
05:40:25  <dominictarr>substack: ++
05:40:47  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: we have them in a few places
05:40:51  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: but nothing great
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05:41:04  <substack>defunctzombie: the reason why you and I both want a module is because core dom events are inadequate
05:41:06  <defunctzombie>my point is you don't need to bring in core events to get the api
05:41:20  <substack>the *point* of ever is that it uses node-style events
05:41:26  <substack>*exactly*
05:41:29  <defunctzombie>the browser already handles storing events for you
05:41:37  <defunctzombie>and such
05:41:49  <defunctzombie>substack: don't see why you have require('events') is all :/
05:41:59  <defunctzombie>makes the file larger for no reason
05:42:24  <defunctzombie>substack: dominictarr: I will make a module for the synthetic event stuff from ever/my dom stuff
05:42:40  <defunctzombie>so we can just have something generating synthetic events
05:42:47  <defunctzombie>needs a name
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05:43:17  <substack>synthetic-dom-events
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05:43:47  <dominictarr>relocating
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05:52:32  <defunctzombie>substack: which will do the "emit" part and that is it? right?
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05:52:34  <substack>ye
05:52:34  <substack>p
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06:08:52  <Raynos>substack: that video is cool
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06:53:13  <Raynos>dominictarr: have you tried creating something like mouse position / mouse clicks / keyboard input as an observable?
06:53:33  <dominictarr>yes
06:53:44  <dominictarr>mouse position works well
06:53:56  <Raynos>I ported a mario demo from elm to js ( https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5075037 )
06:54:14  <Raynos>I'm curious whether I can use observable instead of reducers
06:54:21  <Raynos>for the signal implementation
06:54:48  <dominictarr>Raynos: some of the functions are empty
06:54:56  <Raynos>because they are a bitch to implement
06:55:05  <Raynos>so I decide that was a tomorrow thing
06:55:05  <Raynos>sec
06:55:36  <dominictarr>Raynos: observable is for properties - not events
06:55:46  <Raynos>oh interesting
06:55:47  <Raynos>I forgot
06:55:55  <dominictarr>so it works for position, hover, focus, input-value etc
06:56:00  <dominictarr>but not for events
06:56:36  <dominictarr>you could implement that as a property that is set for one frame, though
06:57:00  <dominictarr>but…
06:57:02  <Raynos>well actually
06:57:10  <Raynos>all of this has dealt with just event streams
06:57:12  <Raynos>and not properties
06:57:13  <dominictarr>observable is about transforming state
06:57:15  <Raynos>which is really nice
06:57:38  <dominictarr>but a click/button press is a change in state
06:57:53  <Raynos>well it doesnt need to be
06:57:57  <Raynos>it can just be a stream of events
06:58:00  <dominictarr>well of course it is
06:58:08  <dominictarr>if I press jump
06:58:22  <dominictarr>it increases my upward velocity
06:58:26  <dominictarr>that is state
06:58:29  <Raynos>yes
06:58:36  <Raynos>but inputs dont need to be stateful
06:58:39  <Raynos>its your app thats stateful
06:58:59  <Raynos>i should comment that mario example in way more detail
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07:05:17  <dominictarr>rvagg: https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/pull/87
07:11:15  <Raynos>added a bunch of comments ( https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5075037 )
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07:15:43  <dominictarr>Raynos: so, is the keyboard stream a stream of whether a given key is currently pressed?
07:16:03  <dominictarr>like, a stream of the current keyboard state?
07:16:12  <Raynos>I think keyboard arrows returns { x: 0, y: 0 } or { x: 1, y: -1 } etc
07:16:16  <Raynos>8 directional things
07:16:54  <dominictarr>right, so If I am holding down "up" it is {x: 1}
07:17:25  <Raynos>I think { x: 1, y: 0 } but yes
07:17:26  <Raynos>https://github.com/Matt-Esch/arrow-keys
07:17:31  <dominictarr>If you do it like this, it would work with observable
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08:39:03  <dominictarr>https://github.com/dominictarr/level-sublevel
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08:44:00  <substack>whoa
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09:18:14  <jez0990>nice, and that should 'just work' with level-scuttlebutt right?
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10:22:46  <Raynos>dominictarr: https://github.com/Raynos/signal/blob/master/examples/simple.js I wrote an elm-style FRP demo.
10:22:57  <Raynos>I think the signal implementation is very similar to your observable
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12:25:47  <substack>https://github.com/substack/node-browserify#list-of-source-transforms
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15:06:09  <juliangruber>is there a way to filter twitter posts? I don't care about runkeeper stats but don't want to unfollow that person completely
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16:28:01  <ehd>juliangruber: not in the api, but some apps support it
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16:29:22  <juliangruber>ehd: can you tell me some? tweetbot doesn't have this feature
16:31:17  <juliangruber>ehd: :O thank you very much!
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17:31:48  <defunctzombie>substack: http://ci.testling.com/shtylman/synthetic-dom-events
17:31:52  <defunctzombie>seems to get stuck some
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17:48:13  <mikeal>substack: you awake yet?
17:52:16  <substack>yes but
17:52:50  <substack>is this on skype or google hangouts or something else?
17:54:07  <defunctzombie>also the test results are inconsistent across different runs of the same commit :(
17:58:09  <pkrumins>yes it's hanging all the time
18:06:32  <guybrush_>juliangruber: just use https://twitter.com/search-advanced
18:06:45  <guybrush_>it works pretty amazing
18:08:25  <juliangruber>guybrush_: https://twitter.com/search/timeline?q=-runkeeper it's empty, what am I doing wrong?
18:08:57  <guybrush_>i guess you didnt add a person
18:09:09  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: just browsers being stupid?
18:09:18  <substack>bugs with sandboxie
18:09:23  <defunctzombie>ah
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18:44:01  <defunctzombie>testling webpage should update automatically when tests finish :)
18:48:03  <defunctzombie>nice! http://ci.testling.com/shtylman/synthetic-dom-events
18:48:09  <defunctzombie>starting to get IE covered
18:48:23  <defunctzombie>need to find an IE 7 box if I care about that
18:48:29  <defunctzombie>6 is probably a lost cause
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18:57:33  <substack>7 and 6 are pretty similar though
18:57:46  <substack>as far as the js engines are concerned
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19:21:42  <ralphtheninja>how do you trace in Writable without getting too much recursion? :)
19:23:24  <ralphtheninja>stream.Writable*
19:24:27  <ralphtheninja>aaah I can emit stuff instead obviously .. nevermind .. just needed some rubber ducking
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19:28:07  <defunctzombie>substack: where do you get firefox 3.6?
19:28:31  <defunctzombie>I don't want to download from some ghetto website
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19:34:01  <defunctzombie>substack: browserify shouldn't insert a leading ';' in the final output methinks
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19:35:31  <juliangruber>defunctzombie: why not? it's the safe way
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19:36:11  <defunctzombie>juliangruber: makes it harder to inline for standalone scripts
19:37:30  <substack>true
19:39:43  <defunctzombie>I actually am not sure how to make a single standalone that will export itself into a var
19:39:49  <defunctzombie>via the cli itself
19:41:16  * cianomaidinquit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:43:14  <defunctzombie>ideally there would be an easy way to have makefile target to just create standalone files
19:43:46  <defunctzombie>that export to some var for users who just want to experiment and don't have browserify installed
19:44:26  <juliangruber>pipe the result of browserbuild (or how it's called) to an exportify stream
19:45:02  <juliangruber>*browser-pack
19:45:15  <defunctzombie>I don't think exportify is for this
19:45:39  <juliangruber>exportify is just a name, I didn't know exportify existed
19:45:44  <defunctzombie>haha
19:46:12  <juliangruber>:)
19:50:42  <defunctzombie>the default leading ';' makes me sadpanda
19:51:04  <defunctzombie>it means you can't return the script or anything by prefixing
19:53:02  <defunctzombie>I just want output like " qr = (...browserified bundle of qr-element exporing single entry point);
19:54:02  <substack>send a patch
19:54:10  <defunctzombie>never!
19:56:08  * cianomaidinjoined
19:57:50  <defunctzombie>self contained bundles are awesome, running advanced minifcation on them is nice
20:06:57  <defunctzombie>I am gonna start numbering things using backwards semver
20:07:02  <defunctzombie>start at 999.999.999
20:07:04  <defunctzombie>and work to 0
20:07:14  <defunctzombie>when I get to 0, package can no longer be updated
20:07:29  <ralphtheninja>nah, just go negative
20:07:35  <ralphtheninja>:)
20:12:21  * cianomaidinquit (Quit: cianomaidin)
20:13:18  <juliangruber>at least start at 1.0.0 because that you took the name for the module was the first breaking change
20:13:57  <juliangruber>or start with 6.6.6 and never leave that \m/
20:20:42  <defunctzombie>haha
20:26:05  <ehd>is there something that allows creating peer connections in node to talk to, e.g., a browser via datachannel?
20:26:42  <ehd>i saw data-channel but that's about transporting streams over datachannels
20:32:41  <defunctzombie>IE7 doesn't have a js console
20:32:42  <defunctzombie>wtf
20:32:50  <defunctzombie>how do people develop in this piece of shit?
20:34:09  <Raynos>juliangruber: can you not run the example on Signal?
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20:43:11  <jesusabdullah>I'm gonna go LaTeX numbering style and asymptotically approach a transcendential number
20:43:27  <jesusabdullah>version 0.1, 0.14, 0.1495... you get the idea
20:45:26  <defunctzombie>substack: http://ci.testling.com/shtylman/synthetic-dom-events oh yea.. starting to get more browser coverage haha
20:45:34  <defunctzombie>IE is such a ghetto wasteland
20:52:27  * thl0joined
20:54:24  <defunctzombie>now just need more tests for all the various event crap
21:02:43  <jesusabdullah>that reminds me
21:02:53  <jesusabdullah>fucked with a win8 pc at LHR
21:03:11  <jesusabdullah>metro is basically ie's version of chrome/firefox apps
21:03:20  <jesusabdullah>full-screened
21:03:21  <jesusabdullah>that's it
21:03:26  <jesusabdullah>IMPRESSIVE (not)
21:03:30  <jesusabdullah>but whatever :)
21:03:57  <thl0>defunctzombie: try IE8, use dev tools and turn IE7 compatibility mode on
21:04:28  <thl0>that is the best way to debug most things (except CSS problems)
21:05:48  <thl0>IE8 at least has a dev console, but no console on the window, but you can easily shim that
21:06:42  <thl0>substack: are there any plans concerning source{Maps,Urls}?
21:07:00  <thl0>substack: without them it would be mighty hard to debug a decent sized app
21:07:20  <thl0>substack: so at this point for these projects I'd still have to use [email protected]
21:08:14  <substack>thl0: want to build them?
21:08:26  * mikealjoined
21:08:32  <substack>I'm planning on it, but not for a few days
21:08:41  * cianomaidinquit (Quit: cianomaidin)
21:08:43  <thl0>substack: if you could point me to the right places I'd take a crack at it
21:08:54  <substack>https://github.com/substack/browser-pack
21:08:58  <thl0>substack: i.e., what should they look like
21:09:32  <substack>https://npmjs.org/package/source-map
21:10:38  <thl0>substack: I'll take a look - I assume this option would become part of browser-pack instead of a separate module?
21:10:57  <substack>probably yes
21:12:21  <thl0>substack: ok - and I'd take a dependency on source-map module or is it just to learn/get inspired?
21:12:29  <jesusabdullah>interneeet
21:12:31  <jesusabdullah>internet!
21:12:50  <substack>thl0: as a dependency
21:12:56  <substack>unless you find a better one
21:13:13  <substack>jesusabdullah: welcome! to the internet.
21:13:17  <thl0>substack: got it - will give it a go
21:14:32  <jesusabdullah>substack: The only limit is yourself
21:14:36  <jesusabdullah>substack: :D
21:18:41  <jesusabdullah>good luck th10!
21:21:18  <substack>you can do anything with the internet
21:21:23  <substack>anything at all
21:25:02  <thl0>jesusabdullah: thanks, current status - reading up on sourcemaps (https://wiki.mozilla.org/DevTools/Features/SourceMap)
21:26:04  <thl0>not much there though - is there a better resource?
21:27:02  * cianomaidinjoined
21:29:07  <thl0>substack: only other reference is (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U1RGAehQwRypUTovF1KRlpiOFze0b-_2gc6fAH0KY0k/edit) - do other browsers like chrome implement this?
21:30:09  <substack>thl0: the source-map module generates the sourceURL data
21:30:21  <defunctzombie>about to make the synthetic dom event api even simpler based on some feedback mwahaha
21:30:21  <substack>and there's a way to base64 encode that url to put the maps inline
21:31:51  <thl0>substack: you are talking about the one liner sourcemaps like //@ sourceMappingURL=<url> right?
21:32:08  <thl0>cause they mention another option for concatenated files
21:33:06  <substack>yep the url thing
21:34:37  <thl0>substack: ok, and that would necessitate the code for each module to be sent as a string and then evaled via Function(..) as was done in v1 right?
21:34:57  <thl0>otherwise I don't see how you get multiple source maps for one file
21:35:10  <thl0>substack: see: http://blog.getfirebug.com/2009/08/11/give-your-eval-a-name-with-sourceurl/
21:39:26  <defunctzombie>soucemaps.. the future is now
21:39:37  <substack>thl0: oh it doesn't work with multiple files in the same bundle without Function()?
21:39:42  <substack>fuck that is so useless
21:39:53  <substack>might as well just use //@ sourceURL= then
21:39:57  <substack>that is really easy
21:40:11  <thl0>substack: yeah, like v1
21:42:02  * kenperkinsquit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
21:42:11  <substack>why can't we have nice things ;_;
21:42:15  <thl0>substack: unless I'm missing something sourcemaps are per file only i.e. this file maps to this unminified one
21:43:10  <thl0>substack: looks like there are some ways to specify line numbers to support concatenation like described here(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U1RGAehQwRypUTovF1KRlpiOFze0b-_2gc6fAH0KY0k/edit#heading=h.535es3xeprgt)
21:43:34  <thl0>just not sure how much of this actually already works consistently across different browsers
21:44:36  <substack>that part isn't too important
21:44:38  <thl0>substack: I'll do a bit more research and get back with you - possibly we just do //@ sourceURL .. for now with the evaled Function and improve later once these proposals becom reality
21:44:49  <substack>just the popular ones devs use is fine for debugging
21:45:51  <thl0>substack: but it is important for concatenated code (like the bundle) "To support concatenating generated code ..." - includes line numbers
21:46:04  <thl0>and sections
21:46:42  <thl0>looks like you can only have one sourceMappingUrl per file otherwise: "The generated code may include a line at the end of the source"
21:46:52  <substack>updated https://github.com/substack/straggler
21:47:10  <substack>simpler api, got rid of the config stuff
21:47:15  <substack>and it supports duplex now
21:50:28  <thl0>substack: reading the tests however it looks like multi mappings per file are possible - https://github.com/mozilla/source-map/blob/master/test/source-map/test-dog-fooding.js#L21-L43
21:51:10  <thl0>substack: so this may take some time playing with things until I find a good solution
21:52:13  <defunctzombie>I believe in you @thl0
21:53:02  <thl0>defunctzombie: :) thanks - where there is time there will be a way ... eventually
21:54:18  <defunctzombie>yes
21:54:36  <defunctzombie>substack: ok, syth events api changed to just return the event created and do nothing about emitting it
21:54:41  <defunctzombie>that is left to other libs
21:54:56  <defunctzombie>also, firefox 3.6 should work now haha
21:55:01  <defunctzombie>all the fucking browsers!
21:55:51  * jibayquit (Remote host closed the connection)
21:57:13  <thl0>btw, @substack did you see the new browserify-shim? works with [email protected] - https://github.com/thlorenz/browserify-shim
21:59:46  <defunctzombie>thl0: nice
21:59:59  <defunctzombie>I still don't get why people don't add a module.exports = '$' rofl
22:00:03  <defunctzombie>it is so trivial
22:00:08  <thl0>defunctzombie: thanks - especially coming from you ;)
22:00:40  <defunctzombie>must be some mental block about "vendor" files being some golden magic we cannot touch or something
22:00:47  * tilgovijoined
22:00:49  <thl0>defunctzombie: well we had this discussion - the less you have to do to use browserify the better (even if it seems trivial)
22:01:27  <defunctzombie>yea, I just take the approach of fix it once and everyone benefits
22:01:30  <thl0>defunctzombie: on a larger project someone may just decide to upgrade without understanding that a module was modded, build breaks and guess who is blamed?
22:01:39  <defunctzombie>versus having to know.. oh I shim this or I don't shim that :/
22:02:00  <defunctzombie>thl0: the person that upgraded without understanding
22:02:07  <defunctzombie>vendor files may always contain fixes
22:02:15  <defunctzombie>can't take the "thinking" out of programming :)
22:02:27  <defunctzombie>also why I hate jquery.. too big to reason about :(
22:02:34  <thl0>defunctzombie: you would think, but no, that new library gets blamed, i.e. browserify
22:03:08  <defunctzombie>I just let them blame whatever and just continue getting things done at 10x their speed and with a cleaner codebase at the end
22:03:12  <defunctzombie>;)
22:03:33  <thl0>defunctzombie: I think both approaches are valid and I'm just trying to allow people of either opinion to start using browserfy
22:03:43  <defunctzombie>yep
22:03:49  <defunctzombie>makes sense
22:03:58  <defunctzombie>I would rather just educate but that is me :)
22:04:15  <defunctzombie>I find people that live in ignorance of what is really happening are the bad programmers
22:04:20  <defunctzombie>and I don't work with bad programmers
22:04:23  * defunctzombieis lucky
22:09:04  <jesusabdullah>ralphtheninja: I see you like my ip address app XD
22:09:52  * slaskisquit (Quit: slaskis)
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22:21:39  * kenperkinsjoined
22:21:42  <defunctzombie>isaacs: is there a way to see what versions of a module I have deprecated?
22:32:04  * dominictarrjoined
22:32:36  <ins0mnia>defunctzombie: did you get the chance to look into "can not find module 2" issue when using b.require(modulepath, {expose:name}) followed by b.require(entry.js, {entry:true})?
22:33:03  <defunctzombie>ins0mnia: there have been a number of fixes since then and that issue doesn't occur any more
22:33:33  <ins0mnia>defunctzombie: cool, I'll npm install and check
22:34:30  <ins0mnia>ah you're already on 2.4.1
22:35:07  <ins0mnia>yup, this solved the issue :)
22:35:11  <ins0mnia>thank you :)
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22:39:15  <thl0>substack: good news, chrome seems to support the proposed format that source-map spits out
22:39:21  <thl0>sample: {"version":3,"file":"try.js","sources":["try-one.js","try-two.js"],"names":[],"mappings":";EAAA,AAEA;CCFA","sourceRoot":"/public/js"}'
22:40:28  <thl0>you can map each original line/column to the generated line/column
22:40:33  <ralphtheninja>jesusabdullah: yeah :)
22:40:48  <ralphtheninja>simple and most of all, it works :)
22:41:18  <defunctzombie>ins0mnia: glad to hear it, thank substack for tracking that one down :)
22:42:56  <ins0mnia>substack: tusen takk :)
22:43:09  <ins0mnia>(that's thanks in norwegian)
22:43:56  * ins0mniaback to smoking Jasmine flower extract
22:44:30  <mbalho>tjholowaychuk quote: "Browserify is a lot more like building monolithic rails-style apps"
22:44:40  <mbalho>WAT
22:44:49  <mbalho>http://www.forbeslindesay.co.uk/post/44144487088/browserify-vs-component
22:45:01  <ralphtheninja>lol
22:45:51  <ins0mnia>wtf is component
22:46:05  <mbalho>read the post
22:46:23  * dominictarrjoined
22:46:45  <ins0mnia>I have, just don't understand the need to invent something new when something that works well already exists
22:46:50  <defunctzombie>mbalho: yea, he said that to me on irc :)
22:48:02  <mbalho>is he just spreading FUD or is there an actual argument there, cause I dont understand what he means at all
22:50:13  <defunctzombie>FUD
22:50:15  <defunctzombie>imho
22:50:51  <defunctzombie>cause the comment does not make sense at all
22:51:06  <defunctzombie>all browserify is is the "js packing" part of component anyhow
22:52:10  <defunctzombie>mbalho: I don't see what their issue with browserify is personally since you can make things as modular as you want
22:52:18  <defunctzombie>mbalho: and iwth component, there is no versioning
22:52:31  <mbalho>defunctzombie: really?
22:52:33  <defunctzombie>which is asinine
22:52:40  <defunctzombie>mbalho: look at every component file
22:52:46  <defunctzombie>and tell me how the versions are specified
22:53:26  <mbalho>defunctzombie: first one i went to https://github.com/visionmedia/superagent/blob/master/component.json#L5
22:53:43  <defunctzombie>you are looking at the wrong part
22:53:44  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/visionmedia/superagent/blob/master/component.json#L16-L19
22:54:27  <mbalho>thats the authors choice to put a wildcard in
22:54:43  <mbalho>you made it sound like it didnt support versions
22:54:45  <defunctzombie>mbalho: ;)
22:54:51  <defunctzombie>try to put a version in there
22:54:58  <defunctzombie>and see if the install tool does anything with it
22:55:06  <mbalho>not worth my time :)
22:55:08  <defunctzombie>I think you will find that there is no concept of versions
22:55:15  <defunctzombie>because the tool doesn't support it
22:55:21  <defunctzombie>that is why you see '*' everywhere
22:55:37  <defunctzombie>the version in component.json:version field is not used
22:55:50  <mbalho>is there an open issue on the component repo for this?
22:56:14  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/component/component/issues/96
22:56:35  <ralphtheninja>what's the difference between juliangruber/shoe and substack/shoe?
22:56:41  <ralphtheninja>noticed shoe as a component
22:56:51  <mbalho>defunctzombie: lol wow
22:57:20  <defunctzombie>mbalho: yep
22:57:34  <mbalho>ralphtheninja: julian forked the repo and added a component.json because component doesnt use NPM
22:57:40  <defunctzombie>mbalho: the problem is.. the component folks rolled "registry" and "build tool" into one thing
22:57:42  <ralphtheninja>mbalho: ✔
22:57:45  <defunctzombie>and I don't agree with that
22:57:58  <defunctzombie>I think there can be a registry of javascript things
22:58:07  <defunctzombie>independent of how you package them
22:58:17  <defunctzombie>and browserify proves this imho
22:59:28  <mbalho>can we at least write a compatibility layer for component.js so we can browserify them?
22:59:41  <mbalho>like a proxy on nodejitsu or something that npm installs thema nyway
22:59:42  <isaacs>defunctzombie: npm view [email protected]'*' deprecated
22:59:53  <defunctzombie>mbalho: waste of fucking time imho
23:00:18  <defunctzombie>and unsafe cause of their lax dependency policy
23:00:23  <defunctzombie>isaacs: thanks :)
23:01:12  <mbalho>lax dependency policy arguably matters to most people, and there are some useful things that i would use if i could npm install them https://github.com/component/component/wiki/Components
23:01:58  <defunctzombie>mbalho: lax dependency policy is a no go
23:02:05  <defunctzombie>'*' is 100% wrong always
23:02:22  <defunctzombie>and I don't want to deal with the mess it causes because developers are stupid
23:02:23  <mbalho>my point was that most people dont care, you are just particular
23:02:25  <defunctzombie>mbalho: just port them
23:02:33  <defunctzombie>mbalho: most people don't develop anything worth a shit then
23:02:39  <defunctzombie>I work with people who do care
23:02:43  <mbalho>lol
23:02:44  <defunctzombie>cause when shit breaks that is bad
23:02:57  <defunctzombie>and people have to fix it
23:03:08  <defunctzombie>and all these fucking morons don't understand that at all
23:03:16  * defunctzombiesorry.. it is just stupid
23:03:19  <mbalho>step 1) fix the world
23:03:26  <mbalho>same as semantic web
23:03:32  <defunctzombie>mbalho: anyhow.. just port them
23:03:32  <mbalho>if only people used metadata more effectively!
23:03:41  <mbalho>too bad that isnt practical
23:03:46  <defunctzombie>mbalho: why not?
23:03:52  <defunctzombie>I think it would be very easy
23:04:00  <defunctzombie>mbalho: point me to one you like?
23:04:05  <mbalho>one what?
23:04:09  <mbalho>a component?
23:04:21  <defunctzombie>sure
23:04:26  <defunctzombie>that you don't think porting would be practical
23:04:41  * mikolalysenkoquit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:04:59  <mbalho>ive tried porting
23:05:05  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: you care about this more than other people because you don't check in deps
23:05:13  <mbalho>most times they use the stupid component emitter instead of nodes emitter
23:05:15  <mbalho>its all NIH
23:05:32  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: checking in deps is noise
23:05:44  <defunctzombie>mbalho: yea, you can easily use theirs tho
23:05:48  <dominictarr>yes, but only do that for applications
23:06:03  <dominictarr>anyway, that is what lots of people do
23:06:14  <defunctzombie>it still doesn't solve the issues of history
23:06:18  <defunctzombie>and coming back to things
23:06:40  <dominictarr>anyway, that solves this problem, because you have tested everything
23:06:49  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: anyhow.. doesn't matter.. I only use shit I can trust or pin it myself
23:06:54  <defunctzombie>because people are too stupid
23:07:01  <defunctzombie>I have given up trying to convince the ones that don't get it
23:07:12  <defunctzombie>they are the ones that usually write breaking code anyway :)
23:07:20  <defunctzombie>so I avoid it
23:07:35  <defunctzombie>if I can't come back to some code in 6 months
23:07:37  <dominictarr>people ARE too stupid
23:07:40  <defunctzombie>and install the same deps
23:07:44  * mikealjoined
23:07:48  <defunctzombie>then that is a big fucking problem
23:08:02  <dominictarr>but just remember #stackvm is people too
23:08:09  <dominictarr>#STACKVM IS PEOPLE
23:08:10  <defunctzombie>stackvm is awesome people :)
23:08:13  <defunctzombie>wow
23:08:32  <dominictarr>yes, but still people who make mistakes
23:08:52  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: yep, and that is why you have to limit mistake exposure
23:08:58  <defunctzombie>'*' is not limiting exposure
23:09:09  <defunctzombie>anywho.. I don't want to rant about deps again
23:09:14  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: no one disagrees with you about *
23:09:17  <dominictarr>* is madness
23:09:43  <dominictarr>but somepeople use ~x.y.z or ~x.y
23:09:46  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: yea, was just telling mbalho about it earlier (he asked about component, so)
23:10:01  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: ~x.y.z is the most I can reasonably stomach for a dep
23:10:21  <defunctzombie>everything else is too open cause in 6 months you will get a completely different codebase
23:10:39  <ralphtheninja>lazyness bites you in the ass sooner or later
23:10:48  <defunctzombie>yea
23:11:03  <ralphtheninja>instead of adding a few extra seconds to just type x.y.z in and change it later when you are sure
23:11:17  <defunctzombie>I personally think that if the underlying modules are changing so quickly that you need ~x.y then you might need a cool off period
23:11:21  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: fair enough
23:11:34  <dominictarr>sometimes I use ~x.y on stable modules I control
23:11:38  <ralphtheninja>sorry, didnt mean to pour gasoline on the fire :)
23:11:49  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: right.. that is because you control them so you have a distorted opinion of it
23:12:09  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: but it is important to also not have that opinion on modules you control
23:12:19  <mbalho>ok if pegging versions is the one true way then what tools need to exist to make the maintainence overhead go away?
23:12:21  <defunctzombie>cause then you might forget about the impact a change can have
23:12:35  <dominictarr>problem is, and this is what that big semver discussion revealed to me, is that people need to communicate what their intensions are for a module
23:12:35  <mbalho>npm install npm-old -g
23:12:36  <defunctzombie>mbalho: https://david-dm.org/shtylman/node-enchilada
23:12:39  <defunctzombie>that is a great tool
23:12:44  <dominictarr>like if the module is expecimental
23:12:47  <defunctzombie>he is adding rss feeds too
23:12:59  <defunctzombie>mbalho: also, npmedge I have found helpful, and I use docserv
23:13:05  <defunctzombie>whcih tells me when things are outdated
23:13:13  <mbalho>defunctzombie: you shoudl put all these in a blog post or s omething
23:13:13  <defunctzombie>and I can look into it further
23:13:24  <ralphtheninja>defunctzombie: nice link
23:13:32  <ralphtheninja>yeah write some shit about it!
23:13:52  * defunctzombiehas created a post-it note to "write some shit about it"
23:13:53  <mbalho>defunctzombie: do you know anything that tries each new version of each dep and tells you the first one that breaks your test suite?
23:14:28  <defunctzombie>mbalho: nope, but that would be easy to build and awesome :)
23:14:37  <defunctzombie>ideally working from the latest version of the dep back to older ones
23:14:48  <mbalho>dominictarr: in wellington we were scheming on tools like this, do you remember the details of the command line tool we dreamed up?
23:15:03  <mbalho>defunctzombie: i was thinking it would try all the new versions if your deps are otu of date
23:15:07  * ralphtheninjawrites a note about reminding defunctzombie to write some shit about it
23:15:11  <mbalho>defunctzombie: oh i see
23:15:15  <mbalho>defunctzombie: yea that makes sense
23:16:09  <ralphtheninja>and app could use this tool (or something else) to notice if it's out of date and remind the author about it
23:16:15  <ralphtheninja>an app*
23:16:15  <chrisdickinson>silly achievement of the day: http://f.cl.ly/items/343U2z3z2b2y2o323J3z/ps1.png egregious use of redis to pull github / fitbit metadata into my ps1.
23:16:29  <defunctzombie>hahaha
23:16:31  * mikealquit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
23:16:45  <chrisdickinson>the relevant, awful code: https://gist.github.com/chrisdickinson/59cb34aa3ea03aa27653
23:17:11  * dominictarrquit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
23:17:11  <defunctzombie>kill it with fire
23:19:12  <ralphtheninja>chrisdickinson: nice :)
23:20:29  <chrisdickinson>oh god just read tj's comments from the linked article
23:21:03  <chrisdickinson>and now i have a sad
23:22:58  <ehd>which?
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23:37:50  <dominictarr>rvagg: got a new version of the safe-patch branch that is simpler, and should have less thing[name] checks
23:38:12  * kenperkinsjoined
23:38:18  <rvagg>dominictarr: cool, will have a look
23:38:30  <dominictarr>just benchmarking it now
23:38:42  <dominictarr>how should I interpret the benchmarks?
23:38:52  <rvagg>dominictarr: with caution...
23:39:11  <rvagg>ignore the x100 benchmarks for a start, care only about the LevelUP vs LevelUP (release) numbers
23:39:12  <dominictarr>I want "LevelUP" to be ahead of "LevelUP (release)"
23:39:22  <rvagg>the x1000 are the most interesting for get and put
23:39:50  <rvagg>you want it to be within +/- 5% of the LevelUP (release), doesn't have to be ahead, you just don't want it to be out of range
23:40:39  <rvagg>if you run it a few times and you're getting pretty much the same numbers and you're consistently lower than (release) then you might want to tinker with your approach
23:41:48  <dominictarr>my new approach doesn't only changes the code path while opening
23:42:03  <dominictarr>when the database is opened, it just works exactly like it did
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23:46:36  <rvagg>ok, sounds good
23:46:44  <rvagg>push to your branch and we'll have a look
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23:59:50  <dominictarr>rvagg: updated https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/pull/87#issuecomment-14357547