00:00:01  * ircretaryquit (Remote host closed the connection)
00:00:10  * ircretaryjoined
00:00:59  <substack>now heading back to oak towne
00:01:32  <hij1nx>rvagg: i found a very large collection of ports a while back, i cant seem to find it now
00:01:46  <hij1nx>even an erlang one :D
00:01:55  <rvagg>hij1nx: that'd be handy if you do find it again.. I need to get my act into gear with leveljs
00:02:07  <defunctzombie>substack: watch that video I linked earlier today if you haven't seen it yet
00:02:15  <substack>call me old fashioned, but programs should just write to stdout and read from stdin!
00:02:15  <defunctzombie>substack: it has some awesome quotes haha
00:02:30  <defunctzombie>you are old fashioned :p
00:02:34  <juliangruber>substack: I do that too, unified interfaces should be used
00:02:36  <mbalho>substack: where are you now?
00:02:42  <substack>mbalho: menlo park
00:02:46  <guybrush>substack: but not logging/debugging things isnt it?
00:02:50  <mbalho>substack: stop in SF and hang with me and isaac
00:02:54  <substack>I have some experiments in the works to make stdout/stdin more viable
00:02:55  <guybrush>i mean isnt that a unix-thing, to be quite
00:02:58  <substack>mbalho: oh ok!
00:03:00  <defunctzombie>substack: programs can write to stdout all they want, they can just do other things too
00:03:01  <substack>mbalho: where at?
00:03:12  <substack>I can walk down to caltrain instead of taking the bus over
00:03:15  <mbalho>substack: we are in the mission, celebrating the 0.10.0 release
00:03:19  <defunctzombie>hahaha
00:03:32  <substack>mbalho: "the mission" is pretty big
00:03:48  <substack>any idea where you'll be in ~1h?
00:04:13  * mbalhois asking isaac
00:04:26  <dominictarr>10 is out?
00:04:36  <ralphtheninja>aye
00:04:45  <mbalho>substack: 691 market st
00:04:55  <mbalho>substack: a place called 'local edition'
00:05:07  <substack>oh actualy caltrain is 5km from here ;_;
00:05:16  <substack>probably just going to head back to oak city
00:05:28  <mbalho>l4m3
00:08:28  <defunctzombie>wow
00:10:47  * tilgoviquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:11:22  <substack>_isaacs_afk: I am worried that I will start getting a flurry of these: https://github.com/substack/pushover/issues/19
00:11:26  * substackaway &
00:12:08  * tilgovijoined
00:13:02  * mikeal1quit (Quit: Leaving.)
00:14:25  <hij1nx>rvagg: leveljs would be SO MUCH WIN
00:14:35  <defunctzombie>sigh ... streams... not a good low level abstraction but we must live with it now haha
00:14:56  <rvagg>hij1nx: I know, I know...
00:15:15  <juliangruber>rvagg: I'd git tip you for that!
00:16:25  <rvagg>heh, sign me up for $2.50 a week!
00:16:52  <rvagg>someone pay me for a couple of weeks full time and perhaps it'd get done in a reasonable timeframe
00:17:12  <Raynos>rvagg: indiegogo it
00:17:27  <rvagg>at the moment I think that levelup on windows needs to take a slightly higher priority; unless the hurdles keep getting bigger
00:19:15  <juliangruber>rvagg: then join gittip :)
00:19:31  <juliangruber>I just discovered I'm already receiving .25$ a week \o/
00:19:39  * st_lukequit (Remote host closed the connection)
00:19:43  <jesusabdullah>I kinda refuse to use gittip
00:19:57  <jesusabdullah>Feels too much like ricing up
00:20:02  <rvagg>btw, we need a culture change in Node to make LevelDB a real alternative; I got downvoted for even suggesting it may be a vaiable alternative: http://www.reddit.com/r/node/comments/1a23yp/what_database_should_i_use_with_node/
00:20:26  <hij1nx>FUCK REDDIT
00:20:30  <jesusabdullah>I mean, I would argue that it's a cultural problem with reddit and not with noads
00:20:47  <jesusabdullah>I would not say "fuck reddit" per se, just that the demographic is slanted towards hating new things
00:21:05  <hij1nx>jesusabdullah: +0.5
00:21:17  <jesusabdullah>also I would say that leveldb DOES need to make a compelling argument as there are going to be a lot of people that say, "why not just use one of the existing solutions"
00:21:19  <hij1nx>its just a horrible culture over there
00:21:31  <hij1nx>and doesnt reflect anything real
00:21:45  <jesusabdullah>(sqlite, remote sql, remote nosql)
00:22:18  <rvagg>jesusabdullah: sqlite is an easy one to knock off.. clone the levelup repo and enable it in the benchmarks.. the node sqlite binding is amazingly bad re performance, they're doing something very wrong
00:22:35  <jesusabdullah>I'm not saying you're not making a compelling argument rvagg (honestly I haven't looked that close) but you DO need to at least say, "has advantages of sqlite locality paired with redis perf and data model"
00:22:37  * tilgoviquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:22:39  <jesusabdullah>or whatever
00:22:43  <hij1nx>a lot of people want 300 features out of the box because they are not programmers, they are power-users
00:22:45  <rvagg>jesusabdullah: we have it permanently disabled because it's that bad
00:22:58  <jesusabdullah>"we" ?
00:22:58  <defunctzombie>rvagg: I upvoted you
00:23:03  <jesusabdullah>also I believe you
00:23:13  <jesusabdullah>I was never that impressed with sqlite tbhirlimo
00:23:17  <defunctzombie>I don't use leveldb myself but there is no reason people can't suggest it
00:23:25  <defunctzombie>"I'm a noob. I hear that Redis has problems with large amounts of concurrent users with Node."
00:23:26  <rvagg>jesusabdullah: the Royal "we": https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup#contributors
00:23:37  <defunctzombie>the real answer is not some other database
00:23:46  <defunctzombie>it is to educate this person about why their question is not adequate
00:23:49  <defunctzombie>and has no answer
00:24:00  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: i see
00:24:30  <jesusabdullah>also i completely agree defunctzombie, "I'm using node" is not nearly enough information to make an informed decision
00:24:30  * tilgovijoined
00:24:39  <jesusabdullah>at that point you might as well say, "well what have you already used?"
00:24:51  <defunctzombie>this person says they are a noob
00:25:02  <defunctzombie>which means they have exactly 0 scaling issues
00:25:08  <defunctzombie>because they have nothing to scale
00:25:12  <rvagg>jesusabdullah: re justification, I know what you mean and I don't think we're quite at the point of being able to make a clear justification for it but we're getting close. The plugin ecosystem is growing very fast and providing for all sorts of needs.
00:25:22  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: yeah I feel that
00:25:46  <jesusabdullah>defunctzombie: at which point you have to ask about other features like, db with the most natural API
00:25:59  <rvagg>jesusabdullah: but back to what hij1nx said previously about the "scaling myth", the reasons people mostly use for choosing redis etc. are because they believe they'll need all the stuff it provides, which isn't true most of the time and if you just want something fast then https://gist.github.com/juliangruber/5128036
00:26:42  <jesusabdullah>defunctzombie: so pgsql for obviously relational data, couch for obviously document-oriented data, redis for obviously KV-oriented data, etc?
00:27:05  <jesusabdullah>juliangruber: that needs colors.
00:27:19  <jesusabdullah>juliangruber: I can't read numbers in a chart like that, I need graphical cues
00:27:38  <juliangruber>jesusabdullah: noooes, work!
00:27:54  <juliangruber>rvagg: moar benchamrks!!!!: https://gist.github.com/juliangruber/5139252
00:27:56  <rvagg>btw, I'm going to tweet that gist juliangruber, is that ok or do you have something more up-to-date?
00:27:57  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: you can use psql for everything if you want
00:28:09  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: or you can use couch or mongo for "documents"
00:28:09  <rvagg>zing, I'll tweet that then juliangruber
00:28:12  <juliangruber>rvagg: wait a sec
00:28:13  <jesusabdullah>defunctzombie: well yeah, you can use any of those for anyththing you want
00:28:14  <defunctzombie>or use psql for KV data
00:28:18  <juliangruber>I'll add a nice description
00:28:26  <jesusabdullah>defunctzombie: it's just a matter of which one is "most natural" for what you're doing
00:28:27  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: it just depends on what you want to do
00:28:31  <jesusabdullah>right!
00:28:38  <rvagg>crikey... leveldown is quite a bit faster isn't it..
00:28:40  <defunctzombie>sure, even then with the right abstraction on top it won't matter that much
00:28:42  <dominictarr>rvagg: I'm getting some tests failing on 0.10 that worked with 0.8
00:28:53  <dominictarr>with map-reduce
00:29:01  <jesusabdullah>so the obvious questions aside from perf are, "what kind of information are you working with" and "how conservative in your tech stack do you want to be"
00:29:03  * thl0joined
00:29:10  <jesusabdullah>and of course, "what do you know already?"
00:29:21  <rvagg>dominictarr: oh?? can't test levelup on current 0.10 just yet but it was working fine on recent 0.9.x until they changed V8 version
00:29:27  <jesusabdullah>i'd ask all three of those before I'd ask about scaling, call me crazy
00:29:28  <defunctzombie>what you know already is very important if you know it well
00:29:33  <defunctzombie>crazy
00:29:55  <mbalho>rvagg: when i run noodlemount.sh i get 'mount point /opt/node does not exist' but when i do mkdir /opt/node i get 'can't create directory: read-only file systme'
00:29:59  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: and level db for obviously range-oriented data
00:30:21  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: like I said i have not had time to scope out leveldb
00:30:27  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: beyond a very very cursory glance
00:31:29  <rvagg>mbalho: try the noodlemount.sh in the README here: https://gist.github.com/rvagg/5095506
00:31:37  <rvagg>mkdir -p /opt; mkdir -p /opt/node
00:31:48  <dominictarr>juliangruber: we need a leveldb client binding that is as fast as redis
00:32:12  <mbalho>ooh
00:32:15  * CryptoQuickquit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
00:32:16  <mbalho>rvagg: thanks
00:33:28  <rvagg>dominictarr, juliangruber, aye, you really need to work on that juliangruber!
00:34:04  <hij1nx>juliangruber: for tsd, we could specify in the options what kind of graph to use, and how keys should be grouped/represented
00:34:11  <dominictarr>juliangruber: multilevel-http does a http get per op?
00:34:22  <rvagg>jesusabdullah: you should toy with it, it's so so easy to use that it fits in all sorts of projects, even very small ones
00:34:30  <juliangruber>dominictarr: working on performance
00:34:38  <rvagg>db.readStream().on('data', console.log) <-- oh my!
00:34:44  <juliangruber>dominictarr: one req per op, yep
00:35:03  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: I'm game, I've just been crazy busy
00:35:24  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: and crazy lethargic the last few days but that's a whole 'nother thing
00:35:35  <juliangruber>hij1nx: I very much like the data.in.namespaces thing. and we need persistence that works without retention intervals
00:35:39  * tilgoviquit (Read error: Operation timed out)
00:37:32  <dominictarr>anyone who really has interesting things to say probably doesn't have time to discuss it on redit, anyway
00:37:33  <juliangruber>rvagg: polished :) https://gist.github.com/juliangruber/5139252
00:37:43  <juliangruber>dominictarr: true
00:38:24  <mbalho>rvagg: hmm same thing, can't create directory /opt/node: read-only file system
00:38:30  <rvagg>mbalho: mntroot rw
00:38:35  <juliangruber>hij1nx: if we can keep configuration to a minimum I'm super happy
00:38:41  <dominictarr>people who have whorthwhile things to say write blogs (or papers)
00:38:55  <rvagg>mbalho: actually, do you have that Extend stuff installed that makes its own /opt/ directories?
00:38:57  <dominictarr>comments are just for people who have opinions
00:39:07  <dominictarr>or "i read somewhere that X doesn't scale"
00:39:15  <hij1nx>juliangruber: absolutely
00:40:19  <mbalho>rvagg: nope
00:40:24  <defunctzombie>"dominictarr: people who have whorthwhile things to say write blogs (or papers)" haha
00:40:26  <mbalho>rvagg: i got it working though!
00:40:26  <hij1nx>dominictarr: or they saw an animated bear talking about webscale and became enraged
00:40:41  <mbalho>rvagg: isaac is sittign next to me and requests a 0.10.0 build :D
00:41:03  <rvagg>mbalho: give me 5 and it'll be done
00:41:16  <mbalho>\o/
00:41:21  <dominictarr>gotta get on a plane,
00:41:23  <juliangruber>hij1nx: are you cool with the api change I proposed?
00:41:25  <dominictarr>catch you dudes later
00:41:27  * dominictarrquit (Quit: dominictarr)
00:42:13  <hij1nx>juliangruber: yeah +1
00:42:25  <juliangruber>hij1nx: so I'll get it merged
00:42:37  <hij1nx>juliangruber: sweet.
00:42:37  <rvagg>juliangruber, hij1nx, @wolfeidau has been trying to do similar things to tsd, I've pointed him your way and I'm sure he'd love to contribute
00:42:51  <hij1nx>rvagg: awesome!
00:44:33  <rvagg>defunctzombie: nice response on reddit btw
00:44:51  <mbalho>i upboated that reddit comment, so crazy that it got downvoted
00:44:51  <defunctzombie>hahaha
00:46:43  <jesusabdullah>idk I have things to day but I hardly write I just say them
00:46:48  <jesusabdullah>TO A LIMITED AUDIENCE
00:46:57  <jesusabdullah>LOUDBOT YOUR LOSS
00:47:32  * tilgovijoined
00:51:16  <mbalho>rvagg: you should get tootallnate to distribute kindle binaries on nodejs.org/dist, i got him to start putting raspi binaries on there
00:52:10  <rvagg>mbalho: it'd have to be an image tho cause we don't have a package manager or anything
00:53:15  <rvagg>mbalho: just uploading 0.10 image now
00:53:16  * tilgoviquit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
00:53:21  <rvagg>tho I probably should test that it works
00:55:21  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: do you know if Array(null, Array(n)) is faster than Array(n).join(',').split(',') or do you just find it more readable and/or just happened to think of that trick first?
00:55:37  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: OUT OF CURIOSITY (as I refuse to be concerned with perf)
00:56:04  <rvagg>don't know if it's faster, it just works for my use-cases and no I didn't think of it first I think it may have been benvie
00:56:30  <rvagg>I'd be pretty sure that join/split would be uber-slow in comparison
00:57:10  <jesusabdullah>Yeah, I mean, that's my instinct as well
00:57:29  <jesusabdullah>I just happened to have seen .join, .split before and not Array.apply
00:57:44  <jesusabdullah>the latter was new to me!
00:57:50  * fotoveritequit (Quit: fotoverite)
00:57:54  <rvagg>jesusabdullah: are you talking to deoxxa somewhere or did you just find that in the test suite?
00:58:02  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: yeah chattin' with deoxxa
00:58:08  <rvagg>heh, ok, cool
00:58:17  <rvagg>thought that was a bit too weird to be a coincidence
00:58:27  <jesusabdullah>yeah haha,
00:58:35  <jesusabdullah>I figured you'd just assume we'd been talking XD
00:58:46  <rvagg>jesusabdullah: good for making huge blobs of data tho: https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/blob/master/test/compression-test.js#L14
00:59:13  <jesusabdullah>haha, I bet
00:59:41  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: is the homogenity important in that case?
00:59:46  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: I mean, for the test?
00:59:55  <rvagg>jesusabdullah: yes, it's a test that "compressible data" is actually compressed
01:00:01  <rvagg>nothing more compressible than a repeating byte
01:00:04  <jesusabdullah>right
01:00:12  <jesusabdullah>that's what I thought
01:00:44  <rvagg>mbalho: http://js.vagg.org/noodle.img.gz
01:00:49  * marcello3dquit (Remote host closed the connection)
01:00:51  <rvagg>use with caution; I'm about to test it for myself..
01:00:57  <rvagg>0.10
01:01:43  <jesusabdullah>bbiaf hydrating
01:01:57  <jesusabdullah>then maybe I'll start working on these friggin' slides already >_<
01:04:05  * Domenic_joined
01:04:20  <jesusabdullah>uuuugh
01:04:24  <jesusabdullah>how u rite software lol
01:04:54  * shama_joined
01:05:46  <rvagg>mbalho: w00t! node v0.10.0 on Kindle: http://home.va.gg:8080/
01:07:13  * shamaquit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:10:57  <thl0>ok it's in: https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/pull/320
01:11:26  <thl0>now lets bug @substack to merge the PRs and we can all enjoy sourceMapURLs in browserify core
01:12:07  <jesusabdullah>maan I wish I had more patience with gnome 3 >_<
01:12:12  <jesusabdullah>I wanna play with its javascripts
01:12:21  <jesusabdullah>but man its theming support is so broken >_<
01:20:44  <rvagg>ralphtheninja: I think we should build a p2p bitcoin based replacement for intrade; prediction markets floating in unregulated space; awesome++
01:22:24  <ralphtheninja>rvagg: funny you mention that, I was just staring at the mtgox exchange rate
01:22:58  <rvagg>that's a p2p project that I could get really excited about I reckon
01:23:13  <ralphtheninja>and mtgox are slow, like several minutes lagged, embarrassing
01:23:25  <rvagg>stupid governments "outlawing" prediction markets cause they don't like their predictions
01:23:55  <ralphtheninja>they don't want the truth :)
01:24:59  <ralphtheninja>the predictions happen in the network too, like a distributed algorithm
01:25:05  <ralphtheninja>essentially just a big brain
01:27:11  <defunctzombie>rvagg: p2p exchanges are not simple
01:27:24  <defunctzombie>rvagg: ralphtheninja: I have ideas about an intrade replacement ;)
01:27:33  <rvagg>defunctzombie: simple problems are not fun
01:28:03  * ins0mniaquit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:28:13  <defunctzombie>ralphtheninja: there is a network problem happening
01:28:27  <defunctzombie>ralphtheninja: that is part of the reason the price is tanking a bit
01:29:46  <ralphtheninja>defunctzombie: aaah interesting
01:30:03  <ralphtheninja>defunctzombie: any pointers? would be interesting to know more
01:30:11  <defunctzombie>ralphtheninja: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=30587843
01:30:15  <ralphtheninja>thanks
01:30:25  <defunctzombie>mtgox and myself have both shutdwon BTC in/out
01:30:47  <defunctzombie>bitstamp as well
01:33:41  <Raynos>shiny testling badge ( https://github.com/Colingo/valid-schema#valid-schema )
01:33:46  <ralphtheninja>defunctzombie: holy shit, this is not good
01:34:17  <defunctzombie>ralphtheninja: yea, it is pretty fucked up
01:34:29  <defunctzombie>ralphtheninja: I don't think there will be any double spends tho
01:34:50  <defunctzombie>hop on bitcoin-dev if you want to listen to all the chatter they are saying
01:38:13  <substack>thl0: merging
01:38:21  <thl0>substack: yay !
01:40:04  <ralphtheninja>defunctzombie: omg some fucked up shit
01:43:29  <thl0>substack: looking into coffeescript-redux in the meantime to come up with a way to soucemap coffescript files with browserify
01:43:49  <thl0>substack: would be good to get that lost crowd addicted to browserify as well ;)
01:44:20  <substack>looked through the browser-pack patch, nice and targetted
01:44:35  <thl0>substack: thanks
01:45:07  <substack>thl0: plus the more people we can get using browserify the more testling-ci plans we can sell!
01:45:21  <substack>so I have a business interest in making browserify as excellent as possible, yay
01:45:57  <substack>thl0: you can try using the source map stuff on the command-line with -c
01:46:09  <substack>and then have module-deps parse inline sourceURLs
01:46:18  <substack>then remap the offsets for the overall build
01:46:31  <substack>like we were talking about previously
01:47:00  <ralphtheninja>defunctzombie: < kritCoin> how many times did i say "USE A PROFESSIONAL DB"?
01:47:10  <defunctzombie>ralphtheninja: hahaha
01:47:33  <juliangruber>substack: is testling-ci support for browserify transforms planned?
01:47:45  <thl0>substack: browser-pack already maps it if they are present
01:47:53  <thl0>s/maps/offsets
01:47:56  <substack>O_O
01:48:01  <substack>wow that is excellent
01:48:14  <substack>juliangruber: yes, we'll have the build step take place entirely in the sandboxed environment so you can use whatever you want
01:48:28  <substack>and then the browserify version will be taken from the package.json instead of the version we have installed
01:49:03  <juliangruber>sweet
01:49:17  <thl0>substack: this line: https://github.com/michaelficarra/CoffeeScriptRedux
01:49:28  <thl0>substack: sorry: this: https://github.com/substack/browser-pack/blob/master/index.js#L45
01:50:12  <ralphtheninja>defunctzombie: I have to log this :)
01:50:19  <thl0>substack: and if there were previous mappings they get offsetted here: https://github.com/substack/browser-pack/blob/master/index.js#L43
01:50:57  <rowbit>/!\ GitHub user "juliangruber" is supporting Testling with the testling_supporter_5 plan! $5/month. Cash money!
01:51:01  <substack>:D
01:51:06  <juliangruber>:D
01:51:23  <juliangruber>that was instant
01:52:12  <substack>this is good motivation for me to go in and update the bundling code to be more flexible
01:52:21  <substack>but first, some paperworky things :(
01:53:02  <juliangruber><3
01:53:58  <substack>thl0: what's the minimum version of chrome the new stuff works on?
01:54:02  <substack>my chrome is too old it seems
01:54:06  <thl0>substack: stable
01:54:15  <substack>which number?
01:54:19  <thl0>you have to enable sourcemaps in dev tools
01:54:23  <substack>oh
01:54:38  <substack>I have 23
01:54:42  <thl0>substack: my version is 25.0.1364.160
01:54:50  <substack>how do I enable them?
01:54:54  <thl0>substack: not sure when it started working
01:55:10  * tilgovijoined
01:55:27  <thl0>substack: click in chrome devtools - click on cog in bottom right
01:55:43  <substack>cool, enabled
01:55:55  <Domenic_>wooooooo excited
01:56:19  <substack>nope, needs a newer chrome
01:56:19  <thl0>substack: btw: https://github.com/thlorenz/node-browserify/blob/master/index.js#L202 is not necessary - stuck around from my experiments
01:57:04  <thl0>substack: we should document that I guess
01:57:26  <substack>--debug is aliased to -s?
01:57:40  <substack>oh because of deps
01:58:11  <thl0>substack: should be 'd' right? https://github.com/thlorenz/node-browserify/blob/master/bin/cmd.js#L15
01:58:42  <substack>https://github.com/thlorenz/node-browserify/blob/master/bin/usage.txt#L45
01:58:46  <paul_irish>thl0: should we just enable sourcemaps by default?
01:58:54  <substack>thl0: YES!
01:58:58  <substack>+1
01:59:01  <substack>I mean
01:59:05  <substack>paul_irish: YES PLEASE!
01:59:17  <paul_irish>or maybe allow an opt-in that discovers sourcemaps and lets you turn em on.
01:59:18  <substack>source maps are super rad
01:59:23  <paul_irish>its too awesome to keep off by default
01:59:25  <paul_irish>ya
01:59:25  <thl0>paul_irish: I agree since nothing happens until you open dev tools anyways ;)
01:59:26  <Domenic_>why would you ever not have them off
01:59:32  <Domenic_>errr
01:59:33  <Domenic_>on
01:59:39  <paul_irish>because you're scurred
01:59:49  <paul_irish>okay one problem
01:59:57  <paul_irish>you're breakpointed in your sourcemap'd originals
02:00:00  <paul_irish>you open console
02:00:08  <paul_irish>and type a symbol name you see...
02:00:24  <paul_irish>and its like 'arr is undefined'
02:00:38  <paul_irish>because arr is really `c` or whatever minified
02:00:52  <paul_irish>we can probably just notify you more clearly that you're in sourcemap land
02:00:59  <substack>maybe it could show that source maps are on in the console?
02:01:04  <substack>yep
02:01:07  <paul_irish>bingo
02:01:10  <paul_irish>kk ill file it
02:01:13  <substack>and there could be a button to toggle them on and off
02:01:16  <substack>oh sweet
02:01:34  <paul_irish>what did you guys add sourcemaps for browserify?
02:01:49  <thl0>paul_irish: yep - being merged as we speak
02:01:53  <paul_irish>huge.
02:01:55  <substack>it's already live
02:02:01  <substack>2.5.0 but actually 2.5.1
02:02:04  <thl0>substack: working for you yet?
02:02:14  <substack>nah I need to download the latest chrome first
02:02:21  <substack>but I published anyways
02:02:24  <defunctzombie>sourcemap all the things!
02:02:34  <defunctzombie>thl0: substack: how do I test this? and what api do I use?
02:02:35  <thl0>substack: yay - I appreciate your trust ;)
02:02:44  <substack>defunctzombie: you do --debug
02:02:49  <substack>and then it just works™
02:02:50  <defunctzombie>need an api
02:02:54  <defunctzombie>you know I don't do no console shits
02:02:59  <thl0>defunctzombie: and enable source map in chrome
02:03:04  <substack>.bundle({ debug: true })
02:03:08  <defunctzombie>gotcha, cool
02:03:38  <substack>paul_irish: plus the source maps are entirely self-contained by default
02:03:40  <defunctzombie>will add that to tryme as well
02:03:47  <substack>so you can move the bundle.js around however you please
02:04:07  <substack>using some base64 url inline tricks that thl0 discovered
02:04:19  <paul_irish>oh yeah i was going to say sourcemaps can be base64 encoded
02:04:27  <paul_irish>in the //@ directive
02:04:38  <thl0>substack: still thinkin it will be a nice future feature to not inline sources but be able to point sourceRootURL to dev server
02:04:44  <substack>I think there are 2 separate tricks at work here
02:04:45  <defunctzombie>substack: next up, the better multibundle pull request when you find the time haha
02:04:48  <thl0>paul_irish: can sourceRootURL be xSite?
02:05:05  <substack>thl0: yes but I think inlining is a much better default so folks can say --debug and not need to do anything else
02:05:21  <substack>and then we can add fancier things from there
02:05:21  <thl0>substack: thinking that as an advanced feature
02:05:28  <Domenic_>defunctzombie: what's multibundle
02:05:31  <defunctzombie>substack: and you still need a way to make standalone files
02:05:38  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: awesomeness
02:06:06  <substack>still under 300 lines but that index.js is getting *slightly* biggish
02:06:06  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: it is the magic behind: https://github.com/shtylman/node-enchilada#with-ingredients
02:06:07  <Domenic_>defunctzombie: it sounds kind of like https://github.com/domenic/browserify-deoptimizer so I am curious
02:06:10  <thl0>btw the sourceContentsURL was all forbeslindsay - credit where credit is due ;)
02:06:10  <paul_irish>thl0: hmmm i am not sure, but i believe so
02:06:41  <thl0>paul_irish: that'd be awesome - you could debug production code without including original sources
02:06:52  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: it is what I use to leverage caching and rarely changing files better
02:07:27  <paul_irish>thl0: well isn't that the selling point already? does it matter that the sources are cross origin?
02:07:28  <thl0>paul_irish: btw being able to debug dev tools with dev tools was a huge help here
02:07:38  <paul_irish>hahah nice moves. :)
02:09:27  <thl0>paul_irish: if sources where cross origin, you could turn a dev server on (temporarily) that the prod server points to and debug problems
02:10:09  <paul_irish>ah, so pointing to localhost for the sources
02:10:15  <Raynos>substack: split all the things
02:10:16  <paul_irish>or the equivalent. i like it.
02:10:32  <thl0>paul_irish: if my sourceRootURL is file:// and the sourceFile is a full path to the original will I be able to edit and save the mapped files from dev tools?
02:10:33  <paul_irish>thl0: try it? we can file a ticket if it doesnt work.
02:10:37  <substack>thl0: it works!
02:10:40  <substack>upgraded to 25
02:10:41  <paul_irish>haha.
02:10:45  <thl0>substack: yay!
02:11:16  <paul_irish>thl0: though wouldnt the map file have to update on every save?
02:11:23  * marcello3djoined
02:11:55  <thl0>paul_irish: yeah, you'd have to refresh your bundle (or chrome could be smart and rewrite my content in the encoded sourcemap as well) ;)
02:12:23  <paul_irish>hahaah
02:12:24  * dominictarrjoined
02:12:49  <thl0>paul_irish: after all you'd have all the info you need to rewrite things in the proper places
02:13:26  <thl0>paul_irish: but maybe a very special case that may require too much effort to get right (more than its worth)
02:15:47  * marcello3dquit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
02:16:13  <thl0>paul_irish: what is the smallest chrome version that had sourcemaps?
02:16:34  <paul_irish>hmmmmmmmm
02:16:36  <paul_irish>like 18?
02:16:41  <paul_irish>its really old by now
02:17:07  <paul_irish>yeah it was in Canary about one year ago
02:17:53  * jibayquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:19:04  <thl0>paul_irish: @substack couldn't get it to work in 23 - these are inlined sources, so maybe these where supported later only?
02:20:30  <substack>hmmm I can't type in text boxes anymore since upgrading chrome
02:20:34  <substack>probably a linux thing
02:20:38  <defunctzombie>hahaha
02:20:56  <Raynos>substack: I have chromium stable & chrome dev installed for these reasons
02:21:08  <Raynos>so that I can use a stable thing when chrome dev explodes because I enabled ALL THE FLAGS
02:21:15  * AvianFlujoined
02:22:47  <Raynos>The most unstable part of chrome 25 is the dev tools actually
02:23:13  <thl0>paul_irish: btw this is what builds the sourcemap: https://github.com/thlorenz/inline-source-map
02:23:48  <thl0>paul_irish: in case you wanna have a look to get an idea what I'm talking about
02:34:11  * thl0quit (Remote host closed the connection)
02:41:56  <jesusabdullah>substack: oh man I can't stand south bay XD
02:42:40  <substack>strip malls, office parks, interstate highways
02:42:45  <substack>vast expanses
02:42:59  <substack>and farms
02:43:31  <substack>there were farms on the east bay between union city and menlo park on the bus ride across the dumbarton bridge
02:43:50  <jesusabdullah>farms still? nice
02:44:11  <substack>farms, what are you doing in the middle of a highly populated suburban wasteland you are a farm get to the countryside where land is inexpensive
02:45:26  * spionquit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
02:45:40  <jesusabdullah>substack why do you hate our american heritage
02:47:46  <substack>I am just a heritage snob
02:47:52  <substack>the stuff before 1930 was pretty good
02:47:59  <substack>started really going downhill around 1950
02:48:13  <substack>it has only just now recovered
02:48:38  <substack>density and walkability-wise
02:49:10  * shama_quit (Remote host closed the connection)
02:52:05  <substack>bowels are necessary but not particularly pleasant
02:53:27  <substack>_isaacs_afk: can we please kill NODE_PATH in a release sometime?
02:53:45  <substack>I know the module api is locked but NODE_PATH really needs to die
02:53:54  <substack>maybe it should just print a warning
02:54:04  <substack>but it's so wrong
02:54:26  <jesusabdullah>what is NODE_PATH I don't even
02:54:31  <substack>exactly
02:54:33  <jesusabdullah>can't we just ignore it?
02:57:06  <substack>WHO SAID THAT
03:07:13  <Raynos>isaacs: https://github.com/isaacs/node-tap/issues/70 :(
03:07:53  * dominictarrquit (Quit: dominictarr)
03:36:10  <Raynos>defunctzombie: did you have any ideas on the multiple blocks and eval bug with tryme?
03:36:44  <defunctzombie>Raynos: yea, I *think* I may know how to fix it
03:36:50  <defunctzombie>Raynos: will revisit tonight
03:36:53  <Raynos>i will try to myself
03:36:56  <Raynos>if you give me some ideas
03:37:01  <defunctzombie>kk
03:37:24  <defunctzombie>well, I think what happens is that it doesn't eval the sections after the changed one
03:37:36  <defunctzombie>but I feel like that may be a red herring
03:38:34  <defunctzombie>Raynos: https://github.com/shtylman/tryme/blob/master/router.js#L119
03:38:39  <defunctzombie>that is the relevant area to investigate
03:39:00  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/shtylman/tryme/blob/master/router.js#L141
03:39:02  * marcello3djoined
03:39:14  <defunctzombie>I have a suspicion that something is going on with scope
03:44:45  <Raynos>600 lines of code ( https://github.com/Raynos/graphics/blob/master/element/index.js )
03:44:48  <Raynos>TIEM FOR MANY MODULES
03:46:27  * devaholicjoined
03:46:54  <hij1nx>anyone seen this problem? https://gist.github.com/nemtsov/0b8537755a5c738dbc9c /cc raynos
03:47:09  <hij1nx>^leveldb issue?
03:47:22  <hij1nx>s/leveldb/levelup
03:51:00  * rvagghides
03:55:11  <rvagg>"verbose unsafe-perm in lifecycle true" is that the problem here?
03:55:18  <rvagg>I'm finding the verbose output very difficult to parse
03:55:22  <Raynos>that looks like a lol 0.10
03:55:23  <Raynos>bug
03:57:14  <hij1nx>odd though, it installed fine for me but not him
03:57:29  <rvagg>rm -rf ~/.npm/leveldown/
03:59:06  <hij1nx>me or him
03:59:12  <rvagg>him
03:59:37  <rvagg>`npm cache clean` if you want to be really sure
03:59:51  <rvagg>gotta run, have fun with that!
04:08:29  <defunctzombie>Raynos: are you exploring the tryme issue or want me to take a look?
04:08:39  <Raynos>I am exploring it
04:08:41  <Raynos>not sure how to fix it
04:08:54  <Raynos>I got it sending refresh signals to each "AREA" and the ones below it
04:08:58  <Raynos>but it's not fixing the issue
04:09:02  <Raynos>I blame closures :3
04:09:35  <defunctzombie>haha
04:09:43  <defunctzombie>I don't think refresh in each area is gonna do it
04:09:49  <defunctzombie>I don't recall that happening before
04:12:06  <Raynos>I see
04:12:13  <Raynos>maybe my code is fucked
04:13:37  <defunctzombie>Raynos: in the original interactivate
04:14:01  <defunctzombie>changes don't propagate down either
04:14:32  <defunctzombie>but they do if you change a section after changing a previous one
04:14:37  <defunctzombie>but not in tryme hm
04:15:03  <Raynos>?
04:15:13  <Raynos>i dont understand
04:16:49  * mikolalysenkojoined
04:20:31  <Raynos>defunctzombie: In my case the problem is the closure
04:20:53  <defunctzombie>Raynos: which closure?
04:21:03  <Raynos>the eval statement evals a `var = ... `
04:21:11  <Raynos>and that doesn't update the upper variables
04:21:21  <Raynos>because it's in a closure by function server() { ... }
04:22:00  <defunctzombie>yes
04:23:09  * mikolalysenkoquit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
04:24:59  <Raynos>Ok
04:25:00  <Raynos>so gozala
04:25:02  <Raynos>used window.eval
04:25:04  <Raynos>but that breaks
04:25:07  <Raynos>because require is not a global
04:25:09  <Raynos>fixing :D
04:27:03  <defunctzombie>do you think that will do it?
04:27:05  <defunctzombie>I was looking at that
04:27:08  <Raynos>ok
04:27:10  <Raynos>fixed it :D
04:27:15  <Raynos>but!
04:27:37  <Raynos>`error instanceof Element` failed because I did `window.eval("var Element = require('...')")`
04:27:50  <Raynos>I fixed that by turning `window.Element` into a local variable
04:27:51  <defunctzombie>well, still doesn't work for my simple example I have
04:27:52  <Raynos>BUT
04:28:15  <Raynos>defunctzombie: https://gist.github.com/Raynos/26c3c5d29452417c3a1e
04:28:21  <Raynos>make sure to restart tryme if you edit that server block
04:28:52  <defunctzombie>Raynos: https://gist.github.com/shtylman/5140360
04:29:04  <defunctzombie>change the first bar to 'foo';
04:29:08  <defunctzombie>it will update the first block
04:29:12  <defunctzombie>then make a change in the second
04:29:15  <Raynos>obvouisly that wont work
04:29:18  <Raynos>but that never worked
04:29:22  <defunctzombie>it should print bar
04:29:23  <defunctzombie>yea, it did
04:29:41  <Raynos>oh
04:29:42  <Raynos>wait a sec
04:30:00  <Raynos>works for me
04:30:02  <Raynos>that demo does
04:30:06  <defunctzombie>hm, let me restart my server
04:30:25  <defunctzombie>yep
04:30:26  <defunctzombie>works now
04:30:27  <defunctzombie>cool
04:30:30  <defunctzombie>Raynos: awesome
04:30:33  <defunctzombie>great success
04:31:54  <defunctzombie>Raynos: so that is an easy fix :)
04:32:01  <defunctzombie>Raynos: you gonna send a pull or want to me to just fix it
04:32:11  <Raynos>sending a pull
04:32:16  <Raynos>well not an easy fix per se
04:32:23  <Raynos>not sure what else I broke, i.e. what other invariants
04:32:27  <Raynos>like __filename and __dirname
04:32:29  <Raynos>or module
04:32:33  <Raynos>those tokens aren't global :D
04:32:43  <defunctzombie>yea, whatever
04:32:47  <defunctzombie>screw that crap hahaha
04:32:59  <defunctzombie>client side widgets don't use that stuff much anyhow
04:39:47  * mikolalysenkojoined
04:41:36  <Raynos>I hate merging shit
04:41:37  <Raynos>merging shit sucks
04:41:51  <Raynos>I couldnt even merge your code in cleanly to mine
04:42:03  <Raynos>I bet this PR is going to be full of noise like "I herd u liek domains so I put dem back"
04:42:11  <defunctzombie>haha
04:44:41  <defunctzombie>you know what sucks about single letter var names.. YOU CAN'T FUCKING SEARCH FOR THEM IN VIM
04:48:01  * dominictarrjoined
04:48:08  * mikolalysenkoquit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
04:48:41  * mikealjoined
04:49:04  <Raynos>defunctzombie: https://github.com/shtylman/tryme/pull/7
04:49:16  <Raynos>the important thing is fucking the live port name & window.eval stuff
04:49:23  <Raynos>I'm just trolling you with the domain stuff :D
04:50:08  <defunctzombie>haha
04:50:13  <defunctzombie>there are like 10 commits there
04:50:16  <Raynos>also my commit messages
04:50:17  <defunctzombie>how did this happen
04:50:17  <Raynos>suck
04:50:24  <Raynos>because I had to merge your shit in
04:50:28  <Raynos>then fix all the merge conflicts
04:50:40  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/tryme/commit/11171c70e8cd787d24784ab436e0a8358246f4cd
04:50:44  <Raynos>thats the important commit
04:51:02  <defunctzombie>cool ok
04:51:05  <defunctzombie>so I will merge that one
04:51:11  <defunctzombie>yea, I manually merge the other stuff
04:51:14  <Raynos>also https://github.com/Raynos/tryme/commit/e38dcddd93f34c38e765412c1fc8cbe85ed938db
04:51:20  <defunctzombie>since you were too lazy to give me nice commits :p
04:51:40  <Raynos>god I hate
04:51:43  <Raynos>git
04:51:50  <defunctzombie>"use to make each update to the block update all state"
04:51:59  <defunctzombie>how is english sentence formed
04:52:50  <Raynos>use window.eval to make each update to the block, update all the state
04:52:54  * mikealquit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
04:52:55  <Raynos>key word emitted :D
04:53:05  <Raynos>herp derp
04:53:07  <Raynos>._.
04:53:27  <Raynos>I need a course in git ._.
04:53:39  * dominictarrquit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
04:53:43  * dominictarr_joined
04:53:58  <defunctzombie>yes, you do
04:54:08  <defunctzombie>Raynos: that state patch does not apply cleanly
04:54:13  <defunctzombie>cause you have other random changes
04:54:15  <defunctzombie>haha
04:54:29  <defunctzombie>I will apply it tho
04:54:48  * mikealjoined
04:55:23  * CryptoQuickjoined
04:55:30  <Raynos>anyway
04:55:36  <Raynos>the most important thing is I can edit gravity
04:55:40  <Raynos>and mario jumps off screen :D
04:55:51  <Raynos>no bullshit, it just works
04:55:56  <defunctzombie>Raynos: pushed
04:56:06  <Raynos>probably because of global hacks
04:56:08  <Raynos>ALL THE GLOBAL HACKS
04:56:22  <Raynos>man window.eval is just a fragile hack
04:56:47  <substack>Function() is pretty good though
04:56:52  * mikolalysenkojoined
04:56:58  <substack>you can close over variables explicitly
04:57:17  <substack>>> Function(['x','y'],'return x+y')(2,3)
04:57:17  <purr>substack: (number) 5
04:57:50  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I am told that tryme has deployed
04:58:02  <Raynos>:)
04:58:03  <defunctzombie>Raynos: you should be able to make the mario work on the tryme server now I guess
04:58:07  <defunctzombie>\o/
04:58:20  <Raynos>FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFf
04:59:32  <defunctzombie>substack: http://tryme.jitsu.com/shtylman/slideways/example/
04:59:40  <defunctzombie>I started making a slideways tryme haha
05:01:04  * thatguydanquit (Quit: thatguydan)
05:01:17  <substack>neat!
05:01:24  <substack>doesn't seem to update properly for me though
05:01:28  <defunctzombie>yea
05:01:30  <defunctzombie>me either
05:01:34  <defunctzombie>not sure why the slider don't work
05:01:49  <defunctzombie>some of my other widgets and examples work
05:02:00  <defunctzombie>I haven't debugged this :)
05:02:24  <defunctzombie>It should work cause it is just a dom element so maybe something else is up
05:04:29  <Raynos>https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5140500
05:04:33  <Raynos>Is there a module for that ^ ?
05:05:55  <defunctzombie>Raynos: yes
05:05:58  <defunctzombie>Raynos: it is called uuid
05:06:03  <Raynos>No
05:06:06  <Raynos>I want it to be a counter
05:06:08  <Raynos>oh wait
05:06:11  <Raynos>uuid instead of node-uuid
05:06:16  <defunctzombie>Raynos: same thing
05:06:24  <Raynos>not same thing
05:06:25  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I published node-uuid under the uuid name
05:06:32  <Raynos>I want a counter :p
05:06:40  <defunctzombie>then it isn't a guid
05:06:53  <defunctzombie>cause of module loading cache rules
05:07:10  <defunctzombie>and really cause of anything
05:07:12  <Raynos>tru dat
05:07:17  <defunctzombie>a guid actually means something
05:07:22  <defunctzombie>not just "a number" haha
05:07:35  <defunctzombie>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globally_unique_identifier
05:07:51  <dominictarr_>Raynos: it's not a uuid, because it's not Universily Unique if it's a counter
05:08:06  <defunctzombie>I would go with uuid module if you really need unique (or as close as you can really get)
05:08:14  <Raynos>the name is poor
05:08:25  <defunctzombie>dominictarr_: https://github.com/shtylman/through/commit/4a5652f8ada85dd8d212d558f386e2ab57f36d46
05:08:40  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I have something I use internally which does sequence numbers
05:08:44  <defunctzombie>it stores the number in a file tho
05:08:51  <defunctzombie>to use across restarts and such
05:09:03  <dominictarr_>defunctzombie: you fucking rule
05:09:15  * defunctzombiewill hold public lashings for future use of single letter var names
05:09:26  <defunctzombie>dominictarr_: do you want the testling-ci stuff for package.json too?
05:09:36  <dominictarr_>yes please!
05:10:25  <substack>\o/
05:11:14  <defunctzombie>done
05:11:41  <defunctzombie>dominictarr_: https://github.com/dominictarr/through/pull/8
05:12:39  <defunctzombie>dominictarr_: not sure it will work for all those browsers, but we will find out haha
05:14:37  * dguttmanquit (Quit: dguttman)
05:15:47  <Raynos>I switched to uuid
05:15:48  <Raynos>its simpler
05:17:19  <defunctzombie>Raynos: probably a wise choice
05:19:04  <defunctzombie>dominictarr_: what is the point of the "fix test command" ?
05:19:17  <dominictarr_>node test/*.js
05:19:24  <dominictarr_>will only run the first js file
05:19:34  <dominictarr_>but there are 3 tests
05:19:54  <defunctzombie>dominictarr_: that isn't true
05:20:03  <defunctzombie>oh wait
05:20:22  <defunctzombie>wow
05:20:26  <defunctzombie>wtf
05:21:23  <defunctzombie>I guess I never ran across that cause I typically use mocha
05:21:24  <defunctzombie>haha
05:21:56  <defunctzombie>tape really needs a super simple cli test runner :(
05:22:09  <defunctzombie>having to write set -e for t in test .. that is upsetting
05:32:18  <dominictarr_>yes, but it's the simplest test runner of all!
05:32:27  <dominictarr_>I just have that in my template
05:32:36  <dominictarr_>or just do
05:32:59  <dominictarr_>node test/test1.js; node test/test2.js; node test/test3.js
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05:35:44  <defunctzombie>dominictarr_: if it just supported "tape test/*.js" that would be enough
05:35:54  <dominictarr_>yeah
05:35:54  <defunctzombie>people don't want to have to think about all this crap
05:36:03  <defunctzombie>and they shouldnt' have it either
05:36:09  <dominictarr_>tap test/*.js works
05:36:17  <defunctzombie>but then you need to install tap
05:36:21  <dominictarr_>but I went to set -e; ...
05:36:26  <defunctzombie>the point is, tape is enough
05:36:39  <Raynos>Does anyone have a nice json viewer widget?
05:36:41  <defunctzombie>and users shouldn't have to hunt and gather to get simple tests
05:36:46  <dominictarr_>because that works with just node
05:37:15  <defunctzombie>what does it do?
05:37:43  <dominictarr_>set -e; exits if a subcommand exists with 1
05:38:08  <defunctzombie>well, node will already exit with non zero for failed tests but sure
05:38:22  <defunctzombie>anyhow, I will make a small tape bin and maybe on a good day substack will merge it
05:39:23  <Raynos>blargh
05:39:31  <Raynos>Do I have to create my own collapsable json view thing?
05:40:20  <defunctzombie>probably
05:40:27  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I just use a chrome plugin
05:40:31  <defunctzombie>when I view raw json
05:40:46  <Raynos>I render things to a pre
05:40:52  <Raynos>in my demos in tryme
05:40:54  <Raynos>and its huge
05:40:56  <dominictarr_>npm registry seems to be down
05:40:57  <Raynos>so I want it prettier
05:44:30  <defunctzombie>dominictarr_: https://github.com/substack/tape/pull/20
05:44:44  <defunctzombie>substack: https://github.com/substack/tape/pull/20 <3
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06:46:49  <substack>defunctzombie_zz: done
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06:50:43  <dominictarr_>Nexxy: hey, what is a hood pass?
06:50:52  <Nexxy>dominictarr_, lol
06:51:26  <dominictarr_>sorry, I'm from the antipodes
06:51:31  <Nexxy>a hood pass is the rather irreverent concept of a "free pass" into hood 'culture'
06:51:52  <Nexxy>e.g., the ability to use the word 'nigga' as a white person
06:52:00  <Nexxy>or the ability to pass through the ghetto unharmed
06:52:06  <dominictarr_>oh right
06:52:24  <dominictarr_>as george michael puts it "street credibitily"
06:52:29  <Nexxy>I'll have you know, I have several but they're not for sale
06:52:34  <Nexxy>non-transferrable
06:52:41  <dominictarr_>of course
06:53:01  <Nexxy>https://twitter.com/polotek/status/311217425188282369
06:53:15  <Nexxy>social currency is the next big thing, dominictarr_
06:53:25  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr why are you an anti-pod? :(
06:53:48  <jesusabdullah>lol hood pass?
06:53:52  <Nexxy>jesusabdullah, are you pro scub or anti scub?
06:54:02  <dominictarr_>jesusabdullah: it's means wrong-footed i.e. on the other side of the world from europe.
06:54:26  <jesusabdullah>nexxy I have a reasonable and moderate opinon on scub!
06:54:40  <Nexxy>oh, phew
06:54:56  <Nexxy>scub extremists are a scary bunch
06:55:21  <jesusabdullah>yeah for real
06:55:32  <Nexxy>omg
06:55:32  <dominictarr_>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipodes
06:55:37  <Nexxy>I can't believe I misspelled skub
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06:55:52  <dominictarr_>Nexxy: I'm quite interested in this
06:55:57  <Nexxy>http://pbfcomics.com/20/
06:56:04  <dominictarr_>I havn't heard of skub though
06:56:09  <Nexxy>lol
06:56:33  <Nexxy>skub is as skub does
06:57:32  <dominictarr_>I should click the links before I confess my ignorance
06:58:23  <dominictarr_>Nexxy: what are your ideas regarding social currency?
06:58:24  <Nexxy>ahaha
06:58:41  <Nexxy>dominictarr_, well; I've had a couple conversations on the concept now
06:58:45  <Nexxy>and it's really interesting to me
06:59:06  <substack>how can I sell my social standing in exchange for bitcoin
06:59:17  <Nexxy>originally it centered around the idea of a sort of global reputation system for the sex trade industry
06:59:37  <Nexxy>so sex workers could more easily verify the validity of a potential client
07:00:00  <substack>and credit rating bureaus
07:00:13  <Nexxy>lol yes
07:00:14  <substack>and before that social standing
07:01:00  <dominictarr_>Nexxy: I've been thinking about similar things, but I first though about this in terms of education
07:01:27  <substack>new browserify approach so source mapping, doing it so right https://twitter.com/pmuellr/status/311334827544686592
07:01:33  <substack>paul_irish: ^^^
07:01:39  <dominictarr_>but later I realized that it's the marginalized activities that stand the most to benefit from a new system
07:01:45  <substack>not that I had anything to do with it!
07:01:50  <substack>was all thl0
07:02:07  <dominictarr_>since they are not well serviced by the statusquo
07:02:18  <Nexxy>yes
07:02:58  <substack>window.status = 'quo'
07:03:07  <Nexxy>lol
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07:03:48  <dominictarr_>Nexxy 'm interested to hear how you envision a transferrable social currency
07:03:58  <substack>page rank!
07:04:37  <Nexxy>not to diminish the the mystique of it or anything, but;
07:04:53  <Nexxy>it could really start out as simple as basically just an ebay/amazon rating system for people
07:04:59  <Nexxy>within the context of certain activities/services, etc
07:05:41  <Nexxy>a person/establishment can query the "status" of an individual by their uuid within the system
07:05:46  <Nexxy>against a particular context
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07:07:46  <dominictarr_>so how is it transferable?
07:07:48  <Nexxy>e.g. within the context of the original concept we had; a provider can look a potential client up in the system to see how many transactions they have successfully completed, past reviews by other providers, average satisfaction, and any possible warnings
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07:08:36  <Nexxy>it's transferrable in the sense that a client that typically seeks providers in, say; ATL, GA... can seek the services of a provider across the globe without having a hard time finding one that's willing to provide their services on account of their lack of reputation in the area
07:09:08  <Nexxy>as you said, marginalized areas are the one that stand to benefit the most
07:09:23  <Nexxy>and providers are often faced with the decision of either putting themselves in a potentially life threatening/dangerous situation
07:09:30  <Nexxy>or losing out on income
07:09:33  <dominictarr_>indeed
07:09:35  <substack>pretty much yelp for everything
07:09:38  <Nexxy>yeah
07:09:40  <substack>yelp ratings at least
07:10:02  <dominictarr_>although, in this case, this is for activities that might not be legal every place
07:10:14  <Nexxy>which is why the status quo is failing them
07:10:21  <substack>host it in iceland
07:10:30  <dominictarr_>so would need to provide a reasonable amount of anomenity
07:10:33  <substack>among other places
07:11:10  <dominictarr_>it's the people using it that require anom.
07:12:21  <dominictarr_>Nexxy: another thing, is making a system that is ungameable
07:12:24  <Nexxy>the use of pseudonyms and restriction of any overly explicit ratings would be enough from my perspective
07:12:47  <Nexxy>dominictarr_, yeah I've given that some thought as well
07:13:11  <Nexxy>feedback would obviously need to be weighted by the 'reputation' of the one giving the feedback
07:13:22  <dominictarr_>approaching that from a computer sciency perspective I wrote this blog post a while ago http://dominictarr.com/post/20992712284/challenge-reliable-reputation-graphs
07:13:47  <dominictarr_>Nexxy: that is exactly what I was thinking
07:14:33  <substack>what would prevent people from creating multiple personas?
07:14:45  <dominictarr_>I don't think you could prevent them
07:14:52  <substack>profile A gets a black mark, switches to profile B
07:15:25  <dominictarr_>but a fresh persona isn't worth much compared to a persona that others vouch for
07:15:46  <substack>but it is worth more than a negative one
07:15:58  <dominictarr_>yes
07:16:29  <dominictarr_>but there is no way to stop them from generating a new key-pair unless you resort to a central authority
07:16:41  <dominictarr_>which you trust absolutely
07:17:41  <dominictarr_>it would probably mean that a fresh persona would have to pass some trust test to get accepted the first time
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07:33:56  <Raynos>dominictarr_: thank you for making me write that
07:37:00  <dominictarr_>Raynos: I want you to imagine me telling you something like that everytime you make a one line reply to something.
08:08:18  <dominictarr_>juliangruber: I'm just about to rewrite level-scuttlebutt to use level-sublevel
08:08:39  <dominictarr_>also, I'm thinking that maybe we can integrate it into multilevel
08:09:18  <dominictarr_>(I left out the basic operations, because I wanted it to be simple, and I was focused on getting scuttlebutt working)
08:49:09  <juliangruber>dominictarr_: sweet
08:49:39  <juliangruber>I'm planning a minimal multilevel, to see how fast we can get with only put and get as operations
08:49:50  <juliangruber>and develop a minimal protool or perhaps use redis's
08:51:06  <dominictarr_>juliangruber: exactly what I was thinking
08:51:11  <dominictarr_>actually, I already have this github.com/dominictarr/redis-protocol-stream
08:51:32  <juliangruber>yeah, that was my first guess
08:51:34  <dominictarr_>it just gives you arrays
08:51:42  <juliangruber>no JSON.*
08:52:02  <dominictarr_>no, just length delimited strings
08:52:12  <dominictarr_>you have to JSON them your self, if that is what you want
08:52:30  <dominictarr_>but, you get an array of strings out
08:52:42  <dominictarr_>[PUT, KEY, VALUE]
08:53:20  <dominictarr_>hmm, maybe make it [PUT, KEY, VALUE, CB_ID]
08:53:51  <dominictarr_>where CB_ID is an incrementing callback id for that client, so the responses can come out of order -
08:53:58  <dominictarr_>which they can't in redis!
08:54:15  <juliangruber>that makes sense
08:54:38  <juliangruber>[METHOD, KEY, VALUE='', CB='']
08:55:01  <dominictarr_>actually, that might already be close to the rpc-stream protocol
08:57:11  <dominictarr_>hmm, it's pretty close - it passes the args as an array - which must be jsoned, because it's assuming a general purpose rpc
08:57:33  <dominictarr_>but you could make it name, arg1, arg2, cb
08:58:09  <dominictarr_>and that would be enough for put, get, del… not batch
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09:00:11  <juliangruber>I'm leaving out batch for now
09:00:32  <juliangruber>[name, arg1, arg2, cb] looks fabulous
09:01:02  <juliangruber>start with rpc-stream's code and create a new module from that
09:11:26  <dominictarr_>the way the redis protocol works, you could just go [name, cb || 0, args….]
09:14:47  <juliangruber>cool, less overhead
09:21:05  <dominictarr_>also, it would allow var args, so it would work with batch too
09:21:28  <dominictarr_>just make an empty string a delete
09:28:09  <juliangruber>awsum
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09:32:24  <juliangruber>and then
09:32:28  <juliangruber>MAKE IT FASTER THAN REDIS
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11:57:16  <guybrush>wooah i have to get a kindle now
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14:15:56  <juliangruber>guybrush: the battery life you get is quite an argument
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14:22:06  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) [email protected] successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
14:22:06  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
14:23:50  <spion>I don't know how to do relational modelling without ending up with a strongly coupled big blob of functionality :(
14:24:04  <Domenic_>thl0: FYI CoffeeScript 1.6 has source maps, no need to go to this hipster CoffeeScript Redux thing.
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14:28:26  <thl0>Domenic_: thanks - will switch to that then - how did he get this crowsourced if it is superfluous?
14:28:55  <thl0>Domenic_: he also has this commonjs-everywhere which tries to do what browserify does
14:28:58  <Domenic_>thl0: jashkenas says it's good to have two implementations of a language to check each other. but yeah, it seemed kinda NIH-ey to me.
14:31:07  <thl0>Domenic_: cool found it: https://github.com/jashkenas/coffee-script/blob/master/src/command.coffee#L42
14:31:29  <thl0>looking through this I realize that the redux took a bunch of code from the original coffee script ;)
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14:55:45  <mikolalysenko>I wonder, is there anything out there that is like jsfiddle, but with npm/browserify?
14:56:15  <mikolalysenko>so you could basically write a shell of a page with a package.json/css/html/script
14:56:21  <mikolalysenko>and then test it on the fly
14:56:32  <mikolalysenko>but use browserify instead of script tags to add modules
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15:04:18  <Domenic_>mikolalysenko: I think defunctzombie_zz and Raynos are working on something like that.
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15:15:21  <mikolalysenko>Domenic_: Awesome! Any idea when it will be done?
15:15:37  <mikolalysenko>do you have a repo or something I could follow?
15:15:38  * Aboudipart
15:15:42  <Domenic_>no idea, gonna have to ask those guys, i just pick up random conversation snippets in IRC :)
15:16:41  <mikolalysenko>ok, if it does get done I think it could be a huge hit
15:17:11  <mikolalysenko>next semester I am going to be teaching a course on computational geometry, and I think having something like that could be awesome for lecturing
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15:29:38  <spion>it could also be awesome for development.
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16:14:41  <thl0>Domenic_: looks like someone wrote a deoptimizer based on sourceMaps: https://gist.github.com/pmuellr/5143384
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16:15:25  <Domenic_>huh weird
16:15:33  <thl0>Domenic_: actually never mind it just creates separate sourcemap file
16:16:21  <thl0>Domenic_: it's related to this issue: https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/issues/322
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18:36:04  <thl0>just reading 0.10 post -- wondering if for recursive calls that avoid building callstack I should use 'setImmediate' instead of 'process.nextTick'?
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18:50:19  <Raynos>Domenic_: Kind of
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19:30:10  <thl0>anvaka is doing some interesting sourcemap tricks: http://anvaka.github.com/impy.js/demos/01.%20Basics/index.html
19:30:36  <thl0>open dev tools console and enter: var noconflict = impyjs; delete window.impyjs; noconflict.load('../../src/main.js')
19:31:01  <thl0>you'll see the separate impy library files appear in your source tab
19:35:42  <defunctzombie>isaacs: I am gonna send a DCMA takedown for that blog post
19:36:53  <substack>thl0: https://github.com/substack/browser-pack/pull/5
19:37:06  <substack>does this seem strictly necessary or can the row.mappings handle this?
19:37:17  <defunctzombie>sigh
19:37:20  <defunctzombie>I hate coffeescript
19:37:28  <defunctzombie>why don't they go away and make their own things
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19:42:23  <thl0>substack: I was already thinking about that - we need two sources in that case
19:42:41  <thl0>substack: the source that ends up in the bundle and the original source (i.e. before it was transpiled)
19:43:19  <thl0>substack: we could however enforce that people need to include the sources with their encoded mappings
19:43:45  <thl0>substack: I'm a bit worried about performance though, since we'd need to decode it all to add offsets and re-encode it
19:44:55  <thl0>defunctzombie: they did (see commonjs-everywhere), but I thought it would be a good idea to grow userbase for browserify by supporting transpiled languages - may be useful for ES6 transpilers pretty soon as well
19:45:16  <substack>and more interesting transforms
19:45:19  <substack>like brfs
19:46:03  <defunctzombie>meh
19:47:06  <defunctzombie>I just want asm.js like thing in the browser and let people go play over whatever language they want :)
19:47:09  <thl0>substack: I'm experimenting with that right now, i.e. I started a spike that enables to include coffee script via browserify - and supports debugging it directly via source mappings
19:47:35  <defunctzombie>all this is cool as long as it doesn't make browserify slower
19:47:41  <defunctzombie>or more annoying to use
19:48:04  <thl0>substack: I'm gonna make all changes necessary in my forks (most likely browser-pack and browserify) to enable this and then we can talk about how to best add that feature
19:48:24  <substack>what is the change?
19:48:29  <substack>people can already load coffee-script
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19:49:08  <thl0>substack: not sure yet - browserpack prob will need to grab sourcemap from the transpiled javascript
19:49:37  <thl0>substack: I'll make a module to find and decode those that it can use
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19:50:09  <substack>oh I see
19:50:19  <thl0>substack: and browserify needs to pass original sources (.coffee) along to browser-pack so it can include those in the mapping
19:52:37  <thl0>substack: another thing to look into btw is to generate and evaluate sourcemappings client side
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19:53:09  <thl0>substack: I mentioned before, my friend anvaka is experimenting with this:
19:53:17  <thl0> http://anvaka.github.com/impy.js/demos/01.%20Basics/index.html
19:53:55  <thl0>substack: source files get added on the fly by entering this in the dev console: var noconflict = impyjs; delete window.impyjs; noconflict.load('../../src/main.js')
19:54:40  <thl0>substack: that way our mappings could stay small if no transpilatiion occurred since it can pull the right out of the bundle
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19:55:09  <thl0>s/the/the sources/
20:00:42  <tmcw>substack: any plans on adding a queue display to testling-ci?
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20:05:52  <substack>I'm starting to get the idea that a lot of what people are using grunt for can be done just as well with `npm run`
20:11:29  * dominictarrjoined
20:14:18  <jesusabdullah>well yeah I could've told you that substizzy
20:15:01  <jesusabdullah>also: if you use very new versions of make you can set the shell to node and write your tasks in javascript >:)
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20:25:45  <tanepiper>jesusabdullah: nice, makes dsl is horrible
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20:28:58  <substack>I just use package.json scripts field and bash scripts
20:29:08  <substack>although it's nice sometimes to just type `make`
20:29:55  <defunctzombie>grunt is for people who like coffescript #trololol
20:31:08  <Raynos>defunctzombie: Pretty much :D
20:32:11  <Raynos>substack: `alias make "npm run start"`
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20:36:50  <thl0>grunt is following maven right into lets write scripts with metadata land
20:37:33  <thl0>just as a build tool it may be ok, but please don't run your tests with it and/or make it do what you could easily write a script for
20:39:26  <mikolalysenko>I don't really get the point of grunt or maven, tbh
20:39:41  <mikolalysenko>*chiming in on the grunt hate bandwagon
20:40:01  <mikolalysenko>seems like a lot of busy work
20:40:32  <mikolalysenko>why have so much ritual to just write a script?
20:40:44  <thl0>maybe in a few years we'll have grunt experts - one way to get job security ;)
20:42:17  <mbalho_>i wanna write a small ebook called The Art of Node
20:43:25  <mbalho_>rvagg: thx for that node binary yesterday, im gonna start writing my own auto-sync scripts for kindle using it
20:45:42  <mbalho_>isaacs: do you know what 'failed with 8' means here? https://github.com/maxogden/voxel-hello-world/issues/16 I changed my npm start script as per your recommendation yesterday and removed the ./node_modules/modulename/bin/module from it
20:50:42  <mbalho_>isaacs: NVM guy didnt paste the entire output
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20:54:47  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: can I ask the main mux-demux about what channels it has?
20:55:38  <dominictarr>no, that is private
20:55:43  <dominictarr>what is your usecase?
20:56:28  <ralphtheninja>well assume that I have done createStream(hash1), createStream(hash2) for some duplex operations
20:56:57  <ralphtheninja>and I later want to close down the hash1 stream
20:57:06  <ralphtheninja>just call .end() on it I guess
20:57:36  <mbalho_>substack: where are you hackin today?
20:57:37  <ralphtheninja>so the use case is asking the main mux-demux about its sub streams
20:58:07  <substack>mbalho_: just at hackistan
20:58:23  <jesusabdullah>tanepiper: you mean sh?
20:58:25  <mbalho_>substack: im back in oakland, hackin at awaken. gonna write a guide on how to write a node module for voxel.js
20:58:32  <substack>sweet!
20:58:35  <jesusabdullah>tanepiper: yeah sh is at least mildly crappy
20:58:35  <mbalho_>substack: can you ask luke if they have your video from empire.js?
20:58:39  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: e.g. var stream = mux.getStream(hash1); stream.end()
20:58:42  <mbalho_>substack: i wanna get the part at the end where you wrote the module
20:58:43  <tanepiper>jesusabdullah: well yea, but the way it's used in make is just D:
20:58:54  <mbalho_>substack: OR do you have a video online of that same segment, where you live code a module from scrath
20:59:03  <dominictarr>ralphtheninja: what is this for?
20:59:13  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: or mux.endStream(hash1)
20:59:15  <jesusabdullah>tanepiper: I feels ya
20:59:48  <dominictarr>ralphtheninja: in cases like this it helps to discuss the actual use case, rather than talk about it in abstract
20:59:48  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: I just want to be able to close different mux-demux streams, like closing a tcp connection
21:00:30  <dominictarr>what are you using mux-demux for?
21:00:59  <jesusabdullah>pwning noobs
21:01:21  <ralphtheninja>to create separate streams for duplex protocols
21:02:05  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: we talked about it the other day if you remember :)
21:02:32  <tanepiper>i really need to get my head around streams again, i haven't been using them for a while
21:03:06  * mikolalysenkoquit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
21:03:35  <tanepiper>are any of you coming to ScotlandJS?
21:03:37  <dominictarr>oh right
21:03:41  <mbalho_>substack: i just hit this bug FYI in voxel-engine https://github.com/substack/tape/issues/21
21:03:43  <dominictarr>tanepiper: I AM
21:04:09  <tanepiper>dominictarr: \o/
21:04:25  <tanepiper>We shall drink whisky and talk node then!
21:04:41  <dominictarr>ralphtheninja: if you end the outer stream it closes all the inner streams, is that good?
21:04:42  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: but perhaps that is up to the protocol itself
21:04:52  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: yeah that's fine :)
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22:10:22  <Raynos>https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5e180b62a374a77ea30f <- winning
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22:29:48  <defunctzombie>ralphtheninja: wut
22:29:51  <defunctzombie>Raynos: wut
22:30:03  <defunctzombie>ralphtheninja: sorry, misstab'd
22:32:54  <dominictarr>Raynos: missing a try...catch
22:33:56  <Raynos>dominictarr: more obvouis bug
22:34:55  <dominictarr>haha, oh right
22:35:08  <dominictarr>the try…catch would get that though!
22:35:16  * nicholasfchanged nick to nicholasf0
22:37:23  <thl0>has anyone figured out how to get to the content of a JavaScript that is loaded in the browser without just reading the 'src' and doing an XHR?
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22:40:22  <dominictarr>thl0: get the script tag, then .textContent , does that work?
22:41:20  <thl0>dominictarr: nope, tried that - would prob work if it was inlined
22:41:40  <dominictarr>oh of course
22:42:07  <dominictarr>have you explored document.scripts?
22:44:34  <defunctzombie>thl0: yes, it works if inlined
22:44:36  <dominictarr>I think some templating systems and coffee script has a way they run in the browser
22:45:17  <dominictarr>where you add the template, and then it's parsed.
22:45:35  <dominictarr>not sure if it has to be inlined.
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22:47:20  <Domenic_>thl0: that would be a security hole so it shouldn't be possible
22:47:22  <rvagg>ralphtheninja: is it 28th & 29th or 29th & 30th?
22:47:49  <Domenic_>the rule of browser security is you can't read text cross-domain without CORS stuff. And since <script src=""> can be cross-domain, you can't read it.
22:48:03  <Raynos>rvagg: I think 29th/30th & meetup on 28th
22:48:22  <Domenic_>I've read no stuff about browsers letting you read the text for same-domain or for CORS-marked URLs
22:48:24  <rvagg>Raynos: righto, thanks, I'm feeling kind of disorganised atm
22:48:34  <Raynos>im not going anymore btw :(
22:48:37  <Raynos>too crazy
22:51:02  <defunctzombie>isaacs: seen the bug with shorthand git urls always doing a cache miss?
22:52:12  <thl0>Domenic_: thanks, got it - at least I can give up trying ;)
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22:53:00  <rvagg>Raynos: what??
22:53:09  * thl0_joined
22:53:39  <Raynos>its like 3 days of flying & 3 days of dublin. I signed up for html5 conf in SF on 1/2 april
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23:17:03  <dominictarr>Raynos: YOU JUST ARN'T CRAZY ENOUGH!
23:17:16  <Raynos>Correct
23:17:16  <rvagg>kind of hard to believe
23:20:03  <ralphtheninja>rvagg: 29th and 30th
23:25:10  <isaacs>defunctzombie: yeah, it's reading a 404 as a failure.
23:25:12  <isaacs>defunctzombie: one sec.
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23:29:36  <isaacs>defunctzombie: fixed on ce14e1792c9e5151568da2575d6b8466593b6a3f
23:29:41  <defunctzombie>oooo
23:31:10  <defunctzombie>isaacs: awesome, so whenever this launches they should no longer install all the time?
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23:34:13  <isaacs>defunctzombie: in the next release, they'll install properly
23:34:21  <defunctzombie>bam
23:34:25  <isaacs>defunctzombie: just did `npm install [email protected]/sax-js`
23:34:30  <isaacs>defunctzombie: totally worked
23:34:36  <isaacs>defunctzombie: of course, it installed at node_modules/sax
23:34:36  <defunctzombie>hahahah
23:34:41  <defunctzombie>of course :D
23:34:46  <isaacs>defunctzombie: because fuck component and its funky name bs stuff.
23:34:51  <defunctzombie>haha
23:35:00  <defunctzombie>and installing a second time did not make it try to install again?
23:35:47  <defunctzombie>cause there were two problems iirc, one was non existing in registry and the other is when you do "npm install" over and over it will constantly check the modules
23:35:51  <defunctzombie>I guess this fixes both the issues
23:35:53  <isaacs>defunctzombie: well, it still checks to see if asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdf is a thing, and if it has a tag named 'isaacs/sax-js'
23:36:06  <defunctzombie>gotcha
23:36:15  <isaacs>defunctzombie: but yeah, that's fixable, but it's probably not a trivial little patch like this was
23:36:23  <defunctzombie>but it won't fail if it isn't a think
23:36:26  <defunctzombie>*thing
23:36:29  <isaacs>rigt
23:36:32  <defunctzombie>which is the more important bit
23:36:33  <defunctzombie>coo
23:36:35  <isaacs>fixes half the issue
23:36:45  <defunctzombie>better than 0 fixes
23:36:59  <isaacs>yep :)
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23:55:17  <defunctzombie>looking for api feedback: https://github.com/shtylman/daemon.node
23:55:21  <defunctzombie>or any feedback
23:57:32  <jesusabdullah>daemon? as in, daemonization?
23:57:35  <jesusabdullah>that's a whole thing
23:57:41  <jesusabdullah>you really want to ask AvianFlu about that
23:58:03  <jesusabdullah>he's like mr daemonization experte
23:58:38  <defunctzombie>haha
23:58:48  <defunctzombie>this is their repo or what I want to merge into their repo
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