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00:00:34  <jesusabdullah>I'm really rusty with this stuff!
00:01:05  <jesusabdullah>But basically it simulates perfect decision-making for an agent buying stuff
00:01:25  <jesusabdullah>only major problem is that this doesn't consider the fact that there's an overhead per-vendor
00:01:43  <substack>you could farm out the AI part of it to use voxeljs
00:01:45  <substack>*UI
00:01:57  <substack>so you would just plop down voxel bricks
00:02:03  <substack>for the servers
00:02:04  <substack>and cables
00:02:06  <jesusabdullah>possibly
00:02:23  <jesusabdullah>but I'm really thinking of using a cli/repl for the ux
00:02:29  <jesusabdullah>at this point
00:02:41  <jesusabdullah>we'll see though
00:02:47  <jesusabdullah>at this point that's all there is
00:02:59  <gozala>anyone base .gitignore parser ?
00:04:32  <jesusabdullah>.npmignore is more or less compatible with .gitignore right?
00:04:35  <jesusabdullah>maybe use that gozala
00:04:56  <gozala>jesusabdullah: yeah I was actually trying to find that code
00:05:02  <gozala>but can't really find it yet
00:05:24  <marcello3d>super super crude, but works for my usecase: https://github.com/marcello3d/node-safestart
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00:18:17  <substack>crazy idea: using git and rss to stream together a fundamentally distributed social network
00:18:35  <substack>appropriating what already exists with rss
00:18:51  <substack>but doing the network bootstrapping and traversals
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00:23:08  <mbalho>im hacking on a thing right now that will archive youtube documentaries that i want to watch on google storage so i have a copy foreva
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00:25:56  <substack>nice
00:33:04  <rvagg>gozala: https://github.com/isaacs/fstream-ignore
00:33:05  <jesusabdullah>oh maaaaan I have to try deriving the equations again
00:33:07  <jesusabdullah>MOAR LATERS
00:33:08  <LOUDBOT>I WANT SOME GOD DAMNED APPLE CIDER BITCH, GO PRESS YOUR APPLES INTO THE MAMMOGRAM UNTIL YOU SCREAM!
00:33:30  <jesusabdullah>https://gist.github.com/jesusabdullah/5166336#file-test-js example use tho
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00:39:38  <guybrush>substack: related http://goo.gl/HFEbV
00:40:08  <guybrush>i dont agree with the article but anyway
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00:45:06  <jesusabdullah>I think RSS feeds are like talk radio
00:45:23  <jesusabdullah>Very Polarizing. Some people never use them, others use them to a ridiculous degree
00:45:30  <jesusabdullah>without a lot of middle ground.
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01:12:06  <chrisdickinson>substack: have you had any issues with tape in 0.10?
01:12:17  <substack>I haven't used 0.10 yet
01:12:22  <chrisdickinson>ah
01:12:23  <chrisdickinson>cool
01:13:38  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: https://github.com/substack/tape/issues/21
01:14:01  <chrisdickinson>mbalho: ah, i'm looking at a possible out of order thing
01:14:20  <chrisdickinson>my tests for tar-parse work in 0.8.X, but skip a bunch of tests in 0.10.0
01:14:31  <chrisdickinson>like, they run the test case but never run any assertions?
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01:15:27  <chrisdickinson>yeah, it definitely looks like it's not waiting for t.end() for some reason
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01:26:26  <dominictarr>isaacs: is there a refactored moudle that you use to parse website, homepage, and repo from package.json?
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01:33:24  <substack>thl0: do the source maps in coffeeify only show up in the final output when somebody does --debug?
01:33:35  <substack>anyways I don't really care that's what minifiers are for
01:34:35  <thl0>substack: coffeeify itself has no notion of --debug, but browser-pack will only use them when --debug is on (via setting row.sourceFile)
01:35:00  <substack>ok sweet!
01:35:03  <thl0>substack: browser-pack will also strip any existing mappings from file sources as to not confuse the browser ;)
01:35:18  <substack>I was more thinking what does browser-pack do if there are source maps in a file but debug is off
01:35:23  <substack>aha yep that's perfect
01:36:00  <thl0>substack: so if sourceFile is set it will try to offset existing mappings before removing them
01:36:53  <thl0>substack: if no original source is inlined in the mapping of the passed source, it willjust ignore the entire mapping and generate them from scratch
01:37:01  <substack>published
01:38:33  <thl0>substack: nice! working on getting browser-pack to consume those properly
01:39:18  <substack>so excellent
01:43:20  <isaacs>dominictarr: not sure. maybe.
01:43:29  <isaacs>dominictarr: if not, patch welcome
01:43:45  <dominictarr>isaacs: okay, I'll have a look
01:49:58  <rvagg>dominictarr, Raynos, juliangruber, ralphtheninja, hij1nx: https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/pull/102#issuecomment-14939884
01:50:11  <rvagg>pass in a 'db' option to swap out LevelDOWN
01:50:24  <rvagg>can use this as a base for your replacement: https://github.com/rvagg/node-abstract-leveldown
01:50:54  <rvagg>it passes all the basic LevelDOWN tests (for arguments and some state stuff), so you just need to add concrete implementations to do the actual work.. see the example for an in-memory store
01:51:08  <rvagg>.. which I plan to write next, a full in-memory replacement for LevelDOWN
01:51:12  <dominictarr>rvagg: SWEET
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02:18:22  <substack>http://substack.net/many_things
02:19:54  <chrisdickinson>substack: so, process.nextTick fails in tape on 0.10.0. switching to `setImmediate` works, but that's yet-another-thing-to-stub in browserify, probably
02:20:55  <substack>crap
02:20:55  <jesusabdullah>someone needs to write a blog post on "went to use setImmediate"
02:21:29  <dominictarr>Raynos: the new version of https://github.com/dominictarr/readme will open the github page of a module
02:21:36  <dominictarr>readme module --gh
02:21:49  <substack>oh man I am going to blog so much you have no idea
02:21:58  <substack>this blogging engine is SO EASY
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02:25:49  <ralphtheninja>rvagg: nice!
02:26:52  <mbalho>WOOT i wrote a node module that streams youtube videos into google storage
02:27:18  <mbalho>so i can watch documentaries that have been DMCA'd MUAHAHA
02:27:48  <ralphtheninja>mbalho: cool :)
02:27:58  <ralphtheninja>mbalho: did you see my message the other day about data?
02:29:01  <mbalho>ralphtheninja: maybe? where did you ask it?
02:29:24  <Domenic_>I actually have been thinking about a setImmediate blog post
02:30:32  <ralphtheninja>mbalho: on #stackvm .. I was asking if you have any pointers to data, it could be any kind of statistics really, preferrably in json :)
02:30:57  <mbalho>oh must have missed that
02:31:11  <ralphtheninja>mbalho: different coordinates on the planet, weather stuff, anything
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02:32:30  <mbalho>ralphtheninja: heres a buncha oakland stuff http://data.openoakland.org/
02:32:44  <mbalho>ralphtheninja: also this meta site http://datacatalogs.org/
02:34:44  <ralphtheninja>mbalho: awesome, thanks!
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03:11:19  <mbalho>https://github.com/maxogden/youtube2googlestorage
03:11:48  <mbalho>next step is to take https://github.com/maxogden/download-all-the-things and turn it into a module that gets all youtube links from a subreddit
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03:17:22  <marcello3d>STREAMS!
03:17:31  <marcello3d>aww
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03:29:31  <jesusabdullah>https://gist.github.com/jesusabdullah/5167288 ;_;
03:29:35  <jesusabdullah>noweb
03:29:37  <jesusabdullah>\disappoint
03:29:41  <jesusabdullah>ಠ_ಠ
03:29:42  <jesusabdullah>I MEAN
03:29:46  <jesusabdullah>you can see I've been texing
03:34:21  <substack>\section*{diappointments}
03:34:28  <jesusabdullah>yes
03:34:43  <substack>\begin{itemize}
03:35:02  <substack>\item latex
03:35:06  <substack>\item too meta
03:35:09  <substack>\end{itemize}
03:36:54  <chrisdickinson>substack: should i open that setImmediate/nextTick thing as an issue on tape?
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03:39:42  <substack>if it breaks on 0.10 then sure
03:39:52  <substack>I'll add 0.10 to the travis tests
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03:49:08  <mbalho>can someone help me figure out what i'm doing wrong with this 0.10.0 readable stream implementation? https://gist.github.com/maxogden/8a05d3fa3615e7404c8e
03:49:12  <mbalho>(scroll down for error)
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03:58:06  <mbalho>nvm was piping object stream -> non object stream
03:58:13  <mbalho>that error could be way better
03:58:44  <mikolalysenko>jesusabdullah: what are you trying to solve?
03:58:49  * mbalhoforks node
03:59:16  <mikolalysenko>if it is maximize utility * purchases
03:59:24  <mikolalysenko>subject to purchases * price <= budget
03:59:30  <mikolalysenko>then, that is just linear programming
03:59:39  <mikolalysenko>and you can solve it in one line using numeric.js' solveLP
04:00:27  <mikolalysenko>http://numericjs.com/numeric/documentation.html
04:00:34  <mikolalysenko>scroll down to solveLP()
04:01:31  <mikolalysenko>you can also do handle limited supplies of quantities
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04:08:39  <chrisdickinson>mbalho: i've just been using `through` still in the hopes of avoiding upcoming weirdness :|
04:09:01  <mbalho>i like the new streams
04:09:15  <chrisdickinson>i really like `through`'s api.
04:09:35  <chrisdickinson>haven't messed much with streams2, though
04:10:05  <chrisdickinson>mbalho: any place in particular that streams2 shines?
04:11:05  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: its easier to implement a readable stream IMO, the base classes are nice
04:11:13  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: biggest difference is if youre writing, for example, an auth server
04:11:21  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: lets say authenticated video uploads
04:11:35  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: you have to do an async call to your session store before accepting the video stream upload
04:11:50  * chrisdickinsonnods
04:11:50  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: before you had to pipe to a buffered stream but now you can just wait to read it
04:12:10  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: overall the semantics are very similar it just all seems a lot simpler to me
04:12:17  <chrisdickinson>no more pausing, then
04:12:21  <chrisdickinson>theoretically
04:12:51  <chrisdickinson>(dominictarr explained it as "think of it as normal streams but in reverse", roughly, at cascadiajs)
04:14:18  <mbalho>i think the mental difference of going from not streaming to streaming is wayyyy bigger than going to streams1 to streams2
04:14:26  <chrisdickinson>it seems more complex to me (but not wrong), but i'm mostly thinking of the <0.10 stream file where it just defined `pipe` and nothing else.
04:15:03  * chrisdickinsonnods
04:15:36  <chrisdickinson>streams1 and streams2 are the same basic concept with a switch in regards to who's in control of determining whether to send more data
04:15:40  <mbalho>x = new require('stream').Readable(); x._read = function(n) {}; otherThing.on('data' x.push)
04:15:53  <mbalho>_read gets called whenever something wants data from x
04:15:56  <mbalho>e.g. pipe
04:16:18  <mbalho>otherThing should probably be called xDataSource
04:16:48  <chrisdickinson>i haven't really thought through all of the implications yet
04:16:55  <chrisdickinson>but yeah, it definitely makes more sense
04:17:20  <chrisdickinson>since we had a boolean signal exposed as to whether more data could be received or not, and it made things fuzzy on the other end of that signal
04:17:46  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
04:18:04  <chrisdickinson>mbalho: streams1 is just a thing that reads infinitely then?
04:18:39  <chrisdickinson>well, reads until it itself pauses, then waits for a drain event on itself to resume reading?
04:19:06  <chrisdickinson>what might that mean for domnode-ish stuff?
04:22:57  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: hmm not sure yet
04:23:35  <chrisdickinson>yeah, that's kind of where i'm struggling :|
04:24:19  <chrisdickinson>i suppose the streams1 emulation makes the domnode stuff work as expected
04:26:23  <defunctzombie>insert-css is really not the right way to make reusable css for modules
04:27:47  <substack>defunctzombie: what is the right way?
04:28:05  <defunctzombie>substack: letting me get your css file for your widget if I want it
04:28:14  <defunctzombie>substack: and documenting the css classes used that I can style
04:28:17  <substack>defunctzombie: so the problem is
04:28:24  <substack>a lot of css is highly structural in nature
04:28:35  <substack>it needs to be exactly so or else the widget is completely unusable
04:28:41  <defunctzombie>substack: sure, that is fine, then your css needs to be minimal
04:28:48  <defunctzombie>substack: and also namespaced
04:28:59  <defunctzombie>and not inserted into the head for me
04:29:02  <substack>which just means that you're going to be encoding things that would normally be in css in your javascript
04:29:17  <defunctzombie>substack: I still think you should put them in css
04:29:26  <defunctzombie>and allow me to use your css files via tools
04:29:29  <substack>defunctzombie: insert-css does not force you to insert css
04:29:33  <defunctzombie>or not at all if I dont want
04:29:43  <substack>it could just be a function you call that inserts optionally
04:29:48  <defunctzombie>substack: I am saying widgets should not do this
04:29:51  <substack>that decision is up to the module consumers
04:29:52  <chrisdickinson>i'm on the side that any css that is absolutely fundamental should be with the js
04:29:58  <defunctzombie>nor should they be encouraged to do it
04:30:30  <defunctzombie>you should not be inserting css into the head of the document within your widget
04:30:41  <substack>this approach is very convenient and I don't really get what the alternative to doing it this way is
04:30:47  <defunctzombie>this is like monkey patching global objects in JS
04:30:52  <chrisdickinson>no, ideally you insert scoped css
04:30:58  <chrisdickinson>to your element
04:30:59  <substack>you just scope the declarations and it works pretty good
04:31:13  <chrisdickinson>http://html5doctor.com/the-scoped-attribute/
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04:31:24  <substack>chrisdickinson: yes the shadow dom stuff will let us do that
04:31:27  <substack>but until then
04:31:29  * chrisdickinsonnods
04:31:45  <chrisdickinson>i'm not certain that i like the shadow dom in particular
04:31:47  <defunctzombie>don't like it, and don't think this is good at all
04:32:01  <defunctzombie>substack: I just use npm-css and allow people to opt in
04:32:09  <chrisdickinson>element scoped css should solve the problem, largely
04:32:22  <chrisdickinson>also, css variables
04:32:38  <chrisdickinson>which are interesting in that they follow css rule specificity
04:32:49  <mbalho>step 1) get everyone to change their fundamental behavior is never my stype
04:33:02  <mbalho>style*
04:33:04  <substack>defunctzombie: I think npm-css adds too much involvement at the module consumer level
04:33:21  <substack>I would rather that consumers didn't need to care that widgets even have css
04:33:31  <defunctzombie>that isn't how css works
04:33:33  <defunctzombie>fundamentally
04:33:45  <defunctzombie>and sure, scoped will change that when we get there
04:33:58  <defunctzombie>but until then, I think this is an anti-pattern approach personally
04:33:59  <substack>another trick I really like
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04:34:15  <substack>is just bundling html strings with <style> blocks in them
04:34:17  <defunctzombie>I would actually rather write structural css into the js
04:34:25  <defunctzombie>using css(element, {props});
04:34:38  <chrisdickinson>i would advocate that for mission-critical css
04:34:44  <chrisdickinson>or module-critical, i guess
04:34:49  <defunctzombie>yes
04:34:58  <chrisdickinson>anything outside of that is another tool's job
04:35:02  <substack>all of these approaches seem fine
04:35:03  <chrisdickinson>whether that tool exists yet or not
04:35:04  <defunctzombie>I would favor that approach over other css approaches I have seen
04:35:27  <defunctzombie>css is leaky
04:35:29  <chrisdickinson>it's hard to make demos, of course
04:35:35  <defunctzombie>and as a result I don't want your css shit in my head haha
04:35:53  <substack>I am just going to ship reusable modules
04:36:02  <substack>that they have css in them is an unimportant implementation detail
04:36:14  <chrisdickinson>if you tried to write a datepicker like this, the demo would look absolutely awful; but that's okay
04:36:17  <substack>they are just a black box that does a thing
04:36:38  <defunctzombie>substack: it becomes important when your shit fucks with my stuff in random ways
04:36:44  <defunctzombie>because they are NOT black boxes
04:36:49  <chrisdickinson>i would vote that css (by and large) is outside the purview of js
04:36:49  <defunctzombie>css is leaky
04:37:04  <defunctzombie>it breaks your idea of module black box by its nature
04:37:22  <defunctzombie>look at how reusable Qt widgets are
04:37:50  <defunctzombie>anyhow, I am done giving my perspective :)
04:38:01  <defunctzombie>will see what things come of all the experiments
04:38:10  <defunctzombie>but for now I stand against injecting into head
04:38:19  <defunctzombie>css is just not designed for containment like that
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04:39:03  <mbalho>defunctzombie: are you aware that you are really picky about side effects
04:39:13  <defunctzombie>mbalho: yes
04:39:19  <mbalho>k just checkin
04:39:22  <defunctzombie>:)
04:39:52  <mbalho>doesnt care about side effects [ - - me - - - - - - defunctzombie - haskell people - ] cares about side effects
04:40:05  <defunctzombie>side effects tend to cause different behavior in different scenarios and I don't (as a rule) like that
04:41:04  <substack>I was a haskell person for a while but I didn't care about side effects enough for that to last very long
04:41:21  <substack>well I used it heavily for 3 years so that is kind of a long time but
04:41:30  <substack>maybe only 2.5 actually
04:41:58  <substack>then I used node and I just abandoned haskell overnight pretty much
04:42:14  <mikolalysenko>I like fortran and global variables
04:42:44  <defunctzombie>mikolalysenko: +1
04:42:52  <defunctzombie>I am all for no stack languages hahaha
04:43:05  <mikolalysenko>you don't need a stack, just arrays
04:44:07  <defunctzombie>real programmers use punch cards
04:44:12  <defunctzombie>and a hole punch
04:44:54  <mikolalysenko>you laugh, but I actually just wrote some code in javascript that actually does just that
04:45:23  <mikolalysenko>https://github.com/mikolalysenko/cwise
04:45:28  <defunctzombie>I am not clicking that link
04:45:39  <mikolalysenko>in particular this: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/cwise/blob/master/lib/generate.js
04:45:59  <mikolalysenko>it basically generates code to do component-wise array operations in cache oblivious order
04:46:07  <guybrush>haha compiled functions ftw
04:46:57  <guybrush>or rather "typed"
04:47:02  <mikolalysenko>yeah, basically doing efficient componentwise operations of tensors with incompatible strides is a little nasty
04:47:42  <mikolalysenko>you need to visit the elements in a recursive order, and so I did this using a separate stack implemented as a typed array
04:48:06  <mbalho>typed array vms are really hot right now
04:48:47  <mikolalysenko>I don't really care about vms or programming languages, I just want to control where things are in memory
04:48:54  <mikolalysenko>and you can't do that with regular arrays or objects
04:52:16  <defunctzombie>substack: any big missing features from browserify now?
04:52:42  <mikolalysenko>workers....
04:52:55  <mikolalysenko>though maybe it is possible, I am not sure
04:52:58  <mikolalysenko>but I want someone to do it
05:05:13  <defunctzombie>substack: you know what would be cool, better way to turn some "structural" css into something we can just apply in js land
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05:16:40  <substack>defunctzombie: how would you author the css?
05:17:02  <substack>like take css as a string as an argument and recursively apply it to an element?
05:17:07  <substack>that is what the shadow dom is all about!
05:17:17  <defunctzombie>maybe, or not event recursively
05:17:25  <defunctzombie>substack: yea, I know, but we don't have that today :)
05:17:36  <defunctzombie>can't use things I can't ship today haha
05:17:38  <substack>I think it's in some nightlies
05:17:45  <defunctzombie>nor can I use it for any real product
05:17:45  <substack>there are some polyfills already
05:17:47  <defunctzombie>on the web
05:17:52  <defunctzombie>cause no one has the browsers
05:18:25  <defunctzombie>all this new stuff is really great, but if I am making a general purpose site much of it isn't realistic to expect soon
05:19:15  <defunctzombie>so I am trying this new source map stuff
05:19:29  <defunctzombie>but I don't see how it helps me debug my bundle...
05:19:39  <defunctzombie>I already get the location in the bundle where the error is
05:19:43  <defunctzombie>maybe I am using it wrong
05:19:44  <defunctzombie>?
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05:22:22  <defunctzombie>oh I see
05:22:25  <defunctzombie>I had to enable source maps
05:22:30  <defunctzombie>fascinating
05:22:39  <mbalho>https://github.com/maxogden/subreddit-youtubes :D
05:22:45  <defunctzombie>oh that is cool
05:22:55  <defunctzombie>mbalho: wut
05:23:09  <mbalho>https://github.com/maxogden/subreddit-youtubes + https://github.com/maxogden/youtube2googlestorage connect the dots
05:23:18  <defunctzombie>haha
05:23:20  <defunctzombie>require('subreddit-youtubes')('http://www.reddit.com/r/Documentaries.json')
05:23:26  <defunctzombie>should just pass the /r/Doc...
05:23:28  <defunctzombie>without the url
05:23:29  <defunctzombie>haha
05:23:34  <mbalho>meh
05:23:38  <defunctzombie>since it is already reddit :p
05:23:53  <defunctzombie>mbalho: what evil plan is this for?
05:24:21  <mbalho>a side project of mine that will host educational video
05:29:40  <defunctzombie>substack: there is a leak in the sourcemap stuff
05:29:43  <defunctzombie>what module is it in?
05:30:10  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/substack/browser-pack/blob/master/index.js#L55
05:30:43  <defunctzombie>this is what happens without leak detection in tests hahaha
05:39:35  <defunctzombie>mbalho: you still doing gather?
05:40:39  <mbalho>not really
05:41:02  <mbalho>not actively developing, just maintaining
05:41:25  <substack>defunctzombie: fixed
05:41:31  <defunctzombie>substack: coo
05:41:44  <defunctzombie>substack: fast :)
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06:07:53  <juliangruber>substack: many_things: s/them to love/them the love/
06:21:17  <substack>fixed
06:30:31  <juliangruber>great article
06:30:37  <juliangruber>about a hot topic
06:35:54  <defunctzombie>substack: +1 on the article, I enjoyed it
06:37:19  <mbalho>substack: if you map IP addresses of your server logs in the 60 seconds preceding the horse_js tweet from your article then we can start figuring out who horse_js is
06:37:38  <defunctzombie>hahaha
06:38:10  <Domenic_>my money is on st_luke
06:39:24  <mbalho>Domenic_: if that is true then we should see a horse_js tweet pattern change this week since he is on the west coast
06:39:35  <Domenic_>hmm
06:41:19  <defunctzombie>I don't think it is him, but not sure
06:41:32  <defunctzombie>we need to seed false data to people haha
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06:52:36  <jjjjohnn1y>substack: patched the midi keyboard through a module and into the new synth
06:52:40  <jjjjohnn1y>i did
06:53:03  <jjjjohnn1y>can control the new synth with the large keyboard
06:56:52  <substack>sweet
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07:17:32  <mbalho>this doc rulz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl_1OybdteY
07:19:56  <substack>YOU'RE A WIZARD HARRY
07:19:56  <LOUDBOT>PEOPLE ARE EITHER SAD OR THEY'RE PLAYING VIDEO GAMES
07:26:22  <jjjjohnn1y>"taking high school kids and turning them into us"
07:28:27  <substack>with our mind parasites
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07:59:19  <Nexxy>mbalho, do you have a link to that thing you did w/ your ar drone handy?
07:59:24  <Nexxy>w/ the arduino, etc
08:01:46  <Nexxy>nm I found it
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09:11:59  <Altreus>substack: bureaucratic fyi
09:12:19  <Altreus>bureau is a silly word
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16:18:26  <tmcw>substack: I'm still working on aha-moment with one part of browserify
16:18:37  <tmcw>it's not clear how one would use browserify modules from non-browserify code
16:19:06  <Domenic_>you can expose `require` globally
16:19:15  <Domenic_>then just do `require('browserified-module')`
16:19:25  <tmcw>so browserify -r produces a require, right?
16:19:46  <tmcw>but browserify site.js > foo.js does not provide a require() out of foo.js
16:19:57  <tmcw>so, how do you expose require globally?
16:20:02  <Domenic_>i don't think so, i think you need to use the api
16:21:06  <tmcw>hmm, so you kind of need all of your code to be browserified? Like, I'd like to use browserify to write libraries that can be used without browserify in the page
16:21:14  <Domenic_>no that should be possible
16:21:22  <Domenic_>i'm just not sure if the command line browserify exposes that capability
16:21:23  <tmcw>the classic 'wget this js file and use it' case
16:21:30  <tmcw>does another tool?
16:21:31  <Domenic_>but maybe it does, maybe i misread the --require docs.
16:21:41  <Domenic_>browserify has an api you can use programmatically to do powerful stuff
16:23:14  <tmcw>I guess what I'm looking for is that if I'm developing a module foo-bar I should be able to run browserify -r foo-bar
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16:24:19  <tmcw>but that seems to be broke
16:24:52  <tmcw>ah, browserify ./index.js works'ish
16:25:34  <tmcw>but doesn't name the module properly
16:28:07  <tmcw>and looks like targeting is not implemented yet - https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/pull/319
16:28:20  <Domenic_>oh sad
16:28:33  <Domenic_>well as you can see if you use the API it works great
16:28:46  <Domenic_>b.require(path, { expose: moduleId })
16:30:25  <tmcw>hm, that would require a custom build script, though, right?
16:30:32  <tmcw>I feel like I'm missing something fundamental here
16:31:44  <Domenic_>yes, most people end up using a custom build script with browserify
16:31:55  <Domenic_>writing one in sh is only slightly easier than writing one in js
16:32:12  <Domenic_>i don't think you're missing much; apparently that colon feature is just not implemented in the CLI, which sucks.
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16:34:38  <tmcw>welp, ticketed https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/issues/327
16:36:47  <tmcw>ah, for now I can create a stub like window.foo = require('./') and browserify that.
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16:43:20  <chrisdickinson>Domenic_: did you do the windows 8 talk at cascadiajs?
16:43:38  <Domenic_>chrisdickinson: indeed!
16:43:45  <chrisdickinson>Domenic_: great talk!
16:43:52  <Domenic_>thanks!!
16:44:22  <chrisdickinson>are you guys using browserify (if that's not prying)?
16:46:39  <Domenic_>yeah definitely, although i've left since then. (to another company where we're using browserify!)
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16:47:13  <chrisdickinson>cool
16:47:48  <chrisdickinson>we're not using it yet at urban airship, but i've got plans to move things that way
16:48:20  <Domenic_>it's really nice for modularizing your app and bringing all the lovely node and npm things to your client-side dev
16:48:21  <chrisdickinson>(i chose the "safe bet" at the time -- require.js -- which i've sort of regretted since)
16:48:31  <Domenic_>i'm giving a talk about that at html5devconf
16:48:32  <chrisdickinson>oh yeah, i've definitely drank the kool aid
16:48:57  <Domenic_>yeah i did a project here with require.js and it started getting really hairy. massive require.config.js with no package encapsulation boundaries
16:49:39  * chrisdickinsonnods
16:50:04  <chrisdickinson>require.js is just too big of an api for what it has to do, i think
16:50:59  <chrisdickinson>we use the sync-looking requires (the "define(function(require) { var module = require('../bloop'); })" style) which'll make moving away from require.js easier
16:51:18  <Domenic_>yes definitely
16:51:24  <chrisdickinson>wrote a tiny tool for making that nearly automatic: https://github.com/chrisdickinson/rewrite-js
16:51:32  <Domenic_>also see thl0's https://github.com/thlorenz/browserify-ftw
16:51:42  <chrisdickinson>yeah, saw that. pretty neat
16:52:26  <chrisdickinson>the hard part is that we have node's event emitter and stream class as part of our code, and making sure that the tiny deviations in behavior from node's don't shoot us in the foot when we move to browserify
16:52:43  <chrisdickinson>also, the multiple entry point thing is a bit of a bear, but i think that's solvable
16:52:44  <thl0>Domenic_: chrisdickinson: will have to make a @2 version that generates [email protected] compatible build script
16:53:01  <thl0>everything else however is version agnostic
16:53:26  <chrisdickinson>cool
16:55:14  <chrisdickinson>rewrite-js has proven handy, too; given a transform module that exports an object mapping cssauron-falafel selectors to functions, it'll rewrite javascript passed through stdin
16:56:44  <thl0>chrisdickinson: b-ftw does something very similar (rewrites entire project), but uses esprima directly
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16:56:51  <chrisdickinson>for example, i used it to rewrite the tests from plate (https://github.com/chrisdickinson/plate/blob/93d9aa96710875e0769fc711a87d595f4414bbf3/tests/tags.js) from a really old, crufty test framework i wrote to tape (https://github.com/chrisdickinson/plate/tree/master/tests/tags.js)
16:57:00  <chrisdickinson>the transform module was just https://gist.github.com/chrisdickinson/4193ef1ba35a16d0963b
16:57:14  <Domenic_>nice
16:57:28  <chrisdickinson>so i could visual select a platoon test case in vim and replace it with a tape test case
16:58:05  <thl0>chrisdickinson: nice!
16:58:24  <thl0>chrisdickinson: you basically just passed that transform module to falafel?
16:59:08  <chrisdickinson>pretty much; cssauron provides the ability to write css-style selectors for any nested tree structure
16:59:39  <chrisdickinson>https://github.com/chrisdickinson/cssauron-falafel/blob/master/index.js#L3-L9
17:00:08  <chrisdickinson>you can define as many or as few of those attributes as you want -- you get different css features from them
17:00:16  <thl0>chrisdickinson: interesting kinda simlar to https://github.com/lloyd/JSONSelect right?
17:00:36  <chrisdickinson>yep
17:00:36  <chrisdickinson>https://github.com/chrisdickinson/cssauron-json
17:00:38  <thl0>chrisdickinson: I was thinking of using that to select on an esprima generated ast to archieve similar goals
17:00:42  <chrisdickinson>but for arbitrary languages
17:00:51  <thl0>chrisdickinson: cool
17:01:03  <chrisdickinson>https://github.com/chrisdickinson/cssauron-html and https://github.com/chrisdickinson/cssauron-glsl as well
17:01:44  <chrisdickinson>a selector gives you back a function that takes a node and returns true if it matches or false if it doesn't, which is pretty handy
17:02:29  <thl0>chrisdickinson: cool, will have to look into this
17:02:33  <chrisdickinson>:D
17:03:12  <thl0>chrisdickinson: I tried to solve a more specific scenario (surrounding tokens with https://github.com/thlorenz/redeyed
17:04:03  <chrisdickinson>neat!
17:04:24  <thl0>chrisdickinson: it allowed me to write a terminal syntaxhighlighter via a simple object literal (pretty much at least) : https://github.com/thlorenz/cardinal/blob/master/themes/default.js
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17:21:41  <Raynos>dominictarr: how is that different from `npm docs` ?
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17:24:43  <chrisdickinson>also, i'm likely the last person in the world to find this out, but is it widely known that `kill -s USR1 <node-pid>` exposes the debug tools on any node process?
17:25:02  <chrisdickinson>(which you can then attach to using, e.g., node-inspector)
17:26:06  <ralphtheninja>I didn't know of it, you weren't the last one :)
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17:28:13  <chrisdickinson>:D
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17:32:38  <thl0>just got an in person intro to ES6 imports from Domenic_ - looks promising at this point, especially since it can interface with existing module systems like commonjs very easily
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17:46:02  <Raynos>Domenic_: the new ES6 ones as of the latest TC39 meeting?
17:46:05  <Raynos>or the older ones
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17:49:09  <Domenic_>the new ones
17:49:22  <Domenic_>but shh that was a spoiler, thl0 you weren't supposed to tell everyone
17:49:29  <st_luke>wow that terrible recruiter hit up the nyc.js list
17:49:36  <st_luke>the 'change your middle name to json' guy
17:49:40  <Domenic_>they'll be public on monday, they want to clean up typos and intros and stuff
17:49:48  <Domenic_>oh the middle name json guy, yeah
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17:52:56  <Raynos>middle name json guy?
17:53:15  <Raynos>Domenic_: How come you know the details?
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17:53:41  <Domenic_>Raynos: cuz I am nice to committee members and don't badmouth them or their work in public, so they share with me.
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17:57:04  <Raynos>Domenic_: :D
17:57:54  <Raynos>> You considered legally changing your middle name to JSON
17:58:00  <Raynos>st_luke: you wern't joking
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17:58:50  <Domenic_>he emails everyone in nyc
17:58:59  <thl0>Domenic_: sorry for getting you into trouble - gonna shh now ;)
18:00:12  <thl0>substack: do require extensions work in browserify - or how hard would it be to make them work?
18:00:23  <Raynos>thl0: use transforms
18:00:49  <thl0>Raynos: that wouldn't work for proxyquire
18:01:02  <Raynos>oh
18:01:08  <thl0>Raynos: I'd need to swap out deps on the fly, not just during the bundling process
18:01:12  <Raynos>proxyquire is screwed :p
18:01:29  <Raynos>https://github.com/Colingo/mock is screwed too
18:02:09  <Domenic_>i still like require extensions for templates and such... require('./template.jade') is much nicer than brfs and require('jade').compile(require('fs').readFileSync(require('path').resolve(__dirname, './template.jade')))
18:02:54  <Raynos>Domenic_: you can make require('./template.jade') work with transforms
18:03:04  <Domenic_>yeah i guess that's true
18:03:10  <thl0>Raynos: I'll make something work - after I'm done with "debug transpiled code in browser via browserify" I'm on a mission to either fix require in browserify to make proxyquire work or write another proxyquiire version for the browser
18:03:56  <Raynos>thl0: https://github.com/substack/browser-pack/blob/master/prelude.js#L19
18:04:06  <Raynos>that anonymous function needs to set `.cache = cache` on itself ;)
18:04:14  <Raynos>then you can use https://github.com/Colingo/mock/blob/master/index.js#L71
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18:05:48  <thl0>Raynos: hold on - this does what proxyquire does, except for browserify?
18:06:48  <Raynos>thl0: mock works for browserify 1.x
18:07:04  <Raynos>and its simpler then proxquire :p
18:07:18  <thl0>Raynos: got it - will look into this and browserpack
18:07:26  <Raynos>well no
18:07:28  <Raynos>it was simpler
18:07:32  <Raynos>before I realized mocking was complex
18:07:38  <Raynos>then it blew up in complexity :D
18:08:03  <thl0>Raynos: seems like an obvious solution would be to swap out browser-pack during testing and do all the magic you'd ever want ;)
18:09:16  <thl0>Raynos: proxyquire is still pretty simple and handles all cases (server side) https://github.com/thlorenz/proxyquire/blob/master/lib/proxyquire.js
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18:11:56  <Raynos>:)
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18:26:46  <st_luke>lets do a kickstarter for npm 2
18:26:51  <st_luke>$100,000
18:27:20  <Domenic_>oh the npm codezzzz
18:27:44  <Domenic_>honestly i would contribute more if it weren't in crazy-sauce style.
18:28:04  <Domenic_>not just the lack of semicolons and the excessive comma-first, but also, slide makes for some bizarre code
18:29:28  <Raynos>st_luke: ++
18:29:50  <Raynos>Domenic_: slide?
18:29:55  <Domenic_>the async library
18:30:18  <st_luke>Domenic_: truthfully those aren't the things that make contributing to it hard
18:30:25  <Domenic_>that creates all those [ [ function, [ argument, arg ], [ [ more, nested, arrays ]]] ] ] codez
18:30:29  <st_luke>it's the technical debt, which happens with projects like that
18:31:14  <Domenic_>sure
18:31:23  <Domenic_>but i've been known to dive into projects with lots of tech debt
18:31:50  <st_luke>I used the phrase "npm treasure hunt" last week when I was trying to figure out how to do something in the code base
18:35:12  <Domenic_>st_luke: don't do it. don't press submit
18:36:22  <substack>st_luke: that should be a new website
18:36:25  <substack>npm treasure hunt
18:36:31  <Domenic_>wow we're really holding the line at below 300 npm issues.
18:36:44  <Domenic_>go us, and this Ralt guy.
18:36:51  <st_luke>ralt is one of the guys that signed up for triage
18:36:53  <substack>there's a text box and you start typing what you want
18:37:03  <st_luke>one morning at like 4am when I was closing a bunch he started commenting on some also
18:37:09  <st_luke>actually he emailed us i think
18:37:10  <substack>and it has a gigantic list of recipes for how to glue tiny modules together to do what you need
18:37:21  <st_luke>substack: this should happen
18:37:41  <st_luke>you used to be able to get .nt domains
18:37:46  <substack>it could be a glog-powered site!
18:37:47  <substack>with no auth
18:37:52  <st_luke>ah wait
18:37:55  <st_luke>it never happened
18:38:07  <substack>you just clone the repo, add a markdown file, and push your changes
18:38:14  <substack>anarchy in the data center
18:38:20  <mbalho>obviously the answer is to make the new npm search in voxel.js
18:39:15  <substack>and npm users can cryptographically sign answers to give them their seal of approval
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18:39:35  <juliangruber>isaacs: is there a regexp for valid npm module names anywhere?
18:40:21  * Domenic_quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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18:42:57  <st_luke>mbalho: when you move in to hackistan you should bring a cat
18:43:59  * nicholasfquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
18:44:18  <mbalho>im allergic
18:44:29  <mbalho>but ill consider it
18:44:31  * nicholasfjoined
18:44:37  <substack>IRONY
18:45:11  <substack>IRONY, THY NAME IS MAXIMILLIAN OGDENIUS THE YOUNGER
18:45:11  <LOUDBOT>TRUSTKN0W1. SEE, THAT'S MY PASSWORD, AND LOL THE PERIOD PROVIDES MOAR ENCRYPTION
18:45:25  <mbalho>HAM PROCUREMENT
18:45:25  <LOUDBOT>AND YOU STILL CAN'T FIND A CHEAP FLIGHT
18:45:39  <mbalho>DUDE YOURE GETTING A GEICO
18:45:40  <LOUDBOT>ZERO IS AS FALSE AS THE CHRISTIAN GOD
18:45:50  <mbalho>LOUDBOT: search feeble
18:45:51  <LOUDBOT>mbalho: <spiffytech:#ncsulug> MY FEEBLE POWERS ARE HAVING NO EFFECT ON HER. HOW COULD THIS BE?
18:46:31  <substack>mbalho: consider ogdenius the younger as your next pseudonym
18:46:39  <mbalho>lol
18:47:02  <substack>I will draw you some greek-style philosopher vector art
18:47:08  <mbalho>YES
18:47:38  <mbalho>here ye here ye https://twitter.com/maxogden
18:51:51  <Raynos>Domenic_: 300 ?
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18:54:05  * Raltjoined
18:54:10  <Ralt>hi
18:54:14  <Ralt>Raynos: ping
18:54:16  <Raynos>o/
18:54:41  <Ralt>Raynos: https://github.com/isaacs/npm/pull/3254#issuecomment-14975684
18:54:54  <Ralt>what should I do with this PR
18:55:51  <Raynos>Ralt: not sure, ask Domenic_, st_luke or isaacs :D
18:56:29  <Ralt>you're still an ass as usual :p
18:57:00  * Domenic_joined
18:57:32  <Ralt>Domenic_: hi
18:57:40  <Domenic_>oh hi
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18:57:48  <Domenic_>thanks for all your help :)
18:57:52  <Ralt>yw
18:58:02  <Raynos>Ralt: I am always an ass
18:58:02  <Ralt>it's my pleasure, really
18:58:43  <Ralt>Domenic_: I guess youre gonna work on that character set issue :P
18:59:08  * yellow_quit (Quit: yellow_)
18:59:24  <Domenic_>yeah seems like it should be an easy fix, and i am the windows guy ^_^
18:59:59  <Ralt>and btw, I need feedback on a pr (discussion about npm way to go), mind giving a look? https://github.com/isaacs/npm/pull/3254#issuecomment-14975684
19:00:16  <Ralt>Domenic_: haha yeah you're not the first I see saying that
19:01:00  <mbalho>substack: ogdenius maximus
19:01:24  <st_luke>Ralt: do my eyes deceive me or are you using bitwise not
19:01:48  <Ralt>st_luke: I am :P
19:02:06  <Ralt>for indexOf it's quite often used though
19:02:19  <Raynos>!== -1 is more readable :P
19:02:20  <Ralt>but i guess that depends on the project.
19:08:05  <CoverSlide>I like to think of tilde as the "contains" operator
19:08:25  <CoverSlide>when used with indexOf
19:08:32  <CoverSlide>readibility is purely subjective
19:09:24  <Ralt>well, this case is pretty much the only one where I se bitwise operators
19:09:28  <Ralt>use*
19:10:17  <CoverSlide>i use bitwise operators for bitwise operations
19:10:19  <Ralt>(except when messing with bits.)
19:11:46  <Ralt>the other common case I could use it for is rounding
19:11:55  <Ralt>but I find it messy.
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19:14:35  <Ralt>fun thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4495101
19:14:51  <Ralt>(node/js bashing to quite a high level)
19:19:43  <st_luke>solution: don't read hacker news
19:20:16  <substack>mbalho: haha yes
19:21:27  <Ralt>HN is slow anyways.
19:23:49  <substack>mbalho: http://substack.net/images/ogdenius_maximus.png
19:23:56  <substack>and http://substack.net/images/ogdenius_maximus.svg
19:24:52  <mbalho>substack: hahaha why am i naked
19:25:03  <mbalho>substack: also it would help if i had a tome
19:25:17  <ins0mnia>substack: I'm having an issue with shoe/dnode, throws an error "XMLHttpRequest cannot load http://...:PORT:PORT/sock/..."
19:25:25  <ins0mnia>the "PORT" seems to be duplicated
19:25:31  <ins0mnia>same errors happen in the examples
19:25:45  <ins0mnia>have you seen this before?
19:26:11  <substack>mbalho: it's a toga
19:26:32  <substack>ins0mnia: yes people have been reporting this, I'm not sure where it comes from!
19:26:47  <substack>it might be something in the latest browserify that causes sockjs to behave differently
19:27:11  <ins0mnia>oh crap gotta figure this out
19:27:15  <Domenic_>wait mbalho is max ogden!?
19:27:18  <mbalho>shhhh
19:27:18  <ins0mnia>yeah it could be realted to browserify
19:27:19  <mbalho>no
19:27:24  <ins0mnia>didn't see this before
19:27:30  <ins0mnia>(in v1)
19:32:45  <mbalho>substack: what about http://i.imgur.com/ASurEus.png
19:36:08  <substack>mbalho: do with it what you will!
19:36:34  <mbalho>WOOT
19:37:00  <mbalho>substack: do you have any sweet svg tomes
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19:44:25  <ins0mnia>substack: it's doubling up on the port, XMLHttpRequest cannot load http://37.153.97.43:15255:15255/sock/238/6f523347-8172-4f56-ba02-2fde00dd415e/xhr_streamin
19:44:43  <ins0mnia>not sure if this is the reason it fails
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19:51:39  <chrisdickinson>i wonder, if i get this js git thing working before it's funded / due, could creationix just keep the money? might be a nice present :D
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19:53:04  <mbalho>haha
19:55:09  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: https://ci.testling.com/
19:55:30  <pkrumins>we just got https testling ^^^ :D
19:55:55  <st_luke>substack: did you end up ordering testling stickers?
19:58:44  <substack>st_luke: haven't done it yet
20:00:55  * defunctzombiechanged nick to defunctzombie_zz
20:06:38  * AvianFlujoined
20:15:52  <st_luke>rule of the internet: don't be a dick
20:30:33  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
20:31:10  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: woooooooooo \o/
20:31:14  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: time to update all the badges!!
20:31:22  <pkrumins>yes sir :)
20:31:33  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: also check out the bottom of ci.testling.com page >_>
20:32:03  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: nice!
20:32:14  <defunctzombie>I am a little scared to put my CC in that tho
20:32:14  <defunctzombie>haha
20:32:22  <substack>haha
20:32:30  <defunctzombie>maybe I can send substack some bitcoins again
20:32:35  <pkrumins>why is that?
20:32:42  <pkrumins>it's all handled by stripe
20:32:43  <substack>the prettier version is coming soon
20:32:48  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: is it?
20:32:52  <defunctzombie>you should use their widget then
20:32:59  <defunctzombie>that would be a little more trustworthy imho
20:33:09  <defunctzombie>and I would put my info in that
20:33:19  <defunctzombie>as it is now, it just looks like I enter my info on some website form
20:33:24  <defunctzombie>and have no idea how it will be handled
20:33:31  <defunctzombie>this makes me nervous :)
20:33:39  <pkrumins>well you can trust me and substack
20:33:45  <pkrumins>we dont store the card number anywhere
20:34:54  <pkrumins>it's all handled by stripe. the problem with the widget is that you can't just do recurring payments with it by putting it on the site.
20:35:29  <pkrumins>we can style it like the stripe's widget though
20:35:42  <st_luke>defunctzombie: you can't trust me with your credit card
20:38:46  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: you can view source to verify that
20:38:57  <pkrumins>but it's fine if you want something better looking
20:38:57  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: really?
20:39:02  <defunctzombie>that is the response :)
20:39:04  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: yes
20:39:22  <defunctzombie>you should deff have something that doesn't make me go.. oh.. wow
20:39:27  <defunctzombie>this must be run by russian scammers
20:39:53  <substack>I haven't done the redesign yet
20:40:16  <defunctzombie>you should use the stripe widget
20:40:27  <defunctzombie>it is more familiar to people
20:40:29  <defunctzombie>and gives you a warm fuzzy
20:40:36  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: i said it doesn't work for recurring payments
20:40:41  <pkrumins>it only works for one time purchases
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20:41:03  <pkrumins>well unless i missed something
20:41:08  <pkrumins>and we're talking about the same widget
20:41:21  <defunctzombie>I see
20:41:32  <defunctzombie>so where is the CC info stored?
20:41:35  <defunctzombie>with stripe?
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20:41:43  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: for sure
20:41:50  <pkrumins>let's go through the source code
20:41:51  <pkrumins>if you wish
20:41:57  <defunctzombie>I don't wish :p
20:42:04  <pkrumins>oh okay
20:42:07  <defunctzombie>just letting you know from a user standpoint
20:42:11  <defunctzombie>you should say it uses stripe
20:42:18  <pkrumins>oh right
20:42:18  <defunctzombie>and have a nice stripe logo or some such
20:42:24  <defunctzombie>with a lock
20:42:25  <defunctzombie>to make me feel safer
20:42:25  <pkrumins>ok adding that right now
20:42:27  <pkrumins>k
20:42:30  <substack>20:39:53 < substack> I haven't done the redesign yet
20:42:33  <substack>pkrumins: don't bother
20:42:33  <defunctzombie>no, I am not joking about any of this :_
20:42:41  <substack>you'll just make it harder for me to do the redesign
20:42:53  <st_luke>Domenic_: arent symlinks on windows just shortcuts
20:42:55  <defunctzombie>I deal with online payments, you want to make it look like you know wtf you are doing :)
20:43:03  <st_luke>no idea how windows does that sort of thing
20:43:07  <pkrumins>substack: ok
20:43:26  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: alright you can sign up when we have the new design
20:44:27  <defunctzombie>:)
20:44:53  <pkrumins>if you want to that is.
20:45:01  <pkrumins>it's a free product for open source repos :)
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20:47:20  <defunctzombie>I even have a specific credit card I use when I don't know if I trust the merchant haha
20:49:30  <Domenic_>st_luke: no, windows has symlinks, it's just before windows 7 there was no command line utility to create them; you had to download third-party utilities that used the Win32 API to create them.
20:51:37  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: that's smart
20:52:06  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: I am pretty paranoid about my CC's (to some degree)
20:52:16  <pkrumins>me too
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20:53:44  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: also, you guys should put the plans up top
20:53:52  <defunctzombie>along with the fact it is free for open source
20:53:56  <defunctzombie>add that as a column
20:54:00  <defunctzombie>on the left
20:54:09  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: yes substack is going to do that
20:54:11  <pkrumins>when he redesigns
20:54:13  <defunctzombie>cool
20:54:15  <pkrumins>i can't design web
20:54:37  <substack>defunctzombie: quit nit-picking an obviously placeholder website :p
20:55:13  <defunctzombie>hahaha
20:55:25  <defunctzombie>I want it to be awesome!
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20:55:32  <defunctzombie>everyone should be using testling
20:55:32  <defunctzombie>it is so easy!
20:57:44  <substack>well it could be easier I think
20:58:07  <substack>it's too highly coupled to how browserify works for instance
20:58:22  <defunctzombie>yea, but using require is nice haha
20:58:33  <defunctzombie>people need to stop making things more complex
20:59:12  <substack>and the browserify versions are defined on our end instead of in the package.json
20:59:54  <substack>I want to turn it into a more general-purpose build step
20:59:55  * kenperkins|awaychanged nick to kenperkins
21:00:35  <defunctzombie>ah
21:00:41  <defunctzombie>also having a way to test engine.io-client would be nice
21:01:38  <defunctzombie>that type of stuff
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21:11:06  <ins0mnia>defunctzombie: seems substack is aware of this and Raynos is facing the same problem
21:11:09  <defunctzombie>ins0mnia: yea, engine.io-stream is the shoe to engine.io-cleint haha
21:11:16  <defunctzombie>ins0mnia: hopefully they can help you :)
21:12:11  <ins0mnia>defunctzombie: fingers and paws crossed super hard lol
21:12:11  <Raynos>defunctzombie: is engine.io-stream actually not buggy?
21:13:02  <Raynos>defunctzombie: https://github.com/Raynos/engine.io-stream your a collab
21:13:49  <defunctzombie>Raynos: cool, I have lots of changes in my fork
21:13:57  <defunctzombie>we can review them and merge
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21:14:34  <Raynos>yeah I see them
21:14:46  <Raynos>I dont know whether I care :D engine.io-stream has no tests -.-
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21:17:50  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I think they are all good but they'll need looking into :)
21:18:15  <mikolalysenko>chrisdickinson, substack: Any further progress on web workers in browserify?
21:18:27  <chrisdickinson>i haven't done anything with them recently
21:18:31  <mikolalysenko>:(
21:18:46  <ins0mnia>Raynos: are there any advantages to engine-io over sockjs?
21:18:55  <Raynos>numerous
21:18:59  <Raynos>and they are complex trade offs
21:19:05  <Raynos>personally I saw fuck both engine.io & sockjs
21:19:06  <chrisdickinson>mikolalysenko: i think it'll end up being a module that, if you use it, will require you to define a transform in your package.json
21:19:13  <Raynos>but networking is hard
21:19:25  <substack>chrisdickinson: that's not actually possible
21:19:25  <ins0mnia>Raynos: right
21:19:27  <mikolalysenko>chrisdickinson: that sucks
21:19:34  <chrisdickinson>substack: ?
21:19:40  <substack>oh wait I see
21:19:41  <st_luke>defunctzombie: what's a good rock climbing gym?
21:19:43  <Raynos>ins0mnia: watch 3rd-eden's websuckets talk
21:19:54  <st_luke>I guess I need some of those rock climbing slippers as well
21:19:56  <ins0mnia>Raynos: do you think I get get engine.io + engine.io-stream + muxdemux combo working
21:20:04  <ins0mnia>Raynos: Will look it up
21:20:07  <Raynos>ins0mnia: that's what it's build for
21:20:12  <mikolalysenko>I mean you can use things like parallel.js right now, but it is a bit overengineered and doesn't let you do even basic things like require()
21:20:14  <substack>st_luke: outdoors climbing is lots of fun
21:20:14  <Raynos>but maybe shtylman's fork is better
21:20:17  <substack>but gyms are pretty boring
21:20:39  <st_luke>substack: gyms are good for me because it's an artificial environment I can fit into my artificial workflow
21:21:05  <substack>you could find a construction site after hours and just start climbing around
21:21:27  <ins0mnia>Raynos: does engine-io support cross domain connections?
21:21:32  <st_luke>maybe when it's not 20 degrees at night
21:21:35  <Raynos>yes
21:21:48  <ins0mnia>then fuck it, I'm gonna make the switch
21:21:51  <Raynos>ins0mnia: personally I use sock in production so personally IO would stick to that
21:23:29  <ins0mnia>Raynos: this project I'm working on needs to be placed on a pre-production machine and with sockjs I can't even get past this issue; the main reason for chosing it is really the cross domain origin, if engine-io does the job then fair enough
21:23:32  <mikolalysenko>substack, chrisdickinson: is there anyway to use workers in browserify *without* forcing users to make their code/package.json?
21:24:29  <mikolalysenko>you can trivially do it on the node side using spawn, but making it work in a browser doesn't seem possible right now
21:24:35  <defunctzombie>st_luke: brooklyn boulders
21:25:03  <defunctzombie>ins0mnia: Raynos: engine.io is simpler imho and also in js which means I can fix it
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21:25:48  <ins0mnia>defunctzombie: good point
21:25:48  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I agree engine.io is simpler in theory but I've been using sock in production and both are fragile
21:26:13  <Raynos>For me personally it's too risky to switch from sock to engine
21:26:21  <Raynos>again personally
21:26:27  <Raynos>I would want to write a duplex XHR stream module
21:26:37  <Raynos>and write a simple XHR + WS stream switcher thing
21:26:41  <Raynos>and basically rewrite engine.io
21:26:50  <Raynos>but god damn it is this fragile and complex
21:26:51  <Raynos>and TESTS
21:26:52  <Raynos>MANY TESTS
21:26:53  <LOUDBOT>JUST ONE GEAR ON MY FIXIE BIKE
21:27:15  <Raynos>substack: write a test suite for https://github.com/substack/xhr-write-stream and I'll write a cross browser xhr-read-stream with a test suite and then we duplex() it!
21:27:25  <Raynos>I need a good example of XHR tests on testling
21:28:07  <thl0>defunctzombie: btw - this weekend I should get browser-pack to the point where you can debug coffee script (bundled as js) in the browser
21:28:58  <Raynos>thl0: personally I say don't bother. Less coffee support === better
21:29:20  <thl0>Raynos: its not coffee centric, but supports any transpiled language
21:30:00  <thl0>Raynos: as I said before I'm fine with plain js, but want to enable more people to do the right thing and use browserify and npm
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21:35:28  <st_luke>every company should just use github for projects
21:42:48  <ins0mnia>interesting..
21:43:09  <ins0mnia>I'm getting the same error with engine.io/-stream as well
21:43:13  <ins0mnia>XMLHttpRequest cannot load http://192.168.1.105:5555http//192.168.1.105:54238/sock/?uid=0280641149738761234972626&transport=polling. Cross origin requests are only supported for HTTP.
21:43:13  <ins0mnia>Uncaught Error: NETWORK_ERR: XMLHttpRequest Exception 101
21:43:38  <ins0mnia>also don't know why it chose polling
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21:59:04  <st_luke>because magic
22:09:36  <Raynos>ins0mnia: something messed up the uri real bad :D
22:10:04  <ins0mnia>Raynos: lol yeah
22:15:54  <ins0mnia>Raynos: engine(url+':'+port+'/sock') <- maybe this is wrong?
22:16:20  <defunctzombie>thl0: I totally don't care about coffeescript, not one bit, maybe even negative % :D
22:16:29  <marcello3d>maybe?
22:17:03  <thl0>defunctzombie: as I said, not coffee centric, but about transpiler support in general
22:17:12  <defunctzombie>thl0: I am just giving you a hard time :)
22:17:18  <defunctzombie>thl0: the work you are doing is good
22:17:26  <thl0>defunctzombie: good job! ;)
22:17:40  <thl0>defunctzombie: tnx
22:18:23  <marcello3d>ignorant question: do sourcemaps work with uglified output?
22:19:15  <marcello3d>like can I use enchilada in compressed mode and debug in firefox with the original source files?
22:20:04  <thl0>marcello3d: in general they do if the generated sourcemaps include variable names
22:20:45  <marcello3d>what pieces do I need to make that actually work?
22:20:53  <thl0>marcello3d: at this point though, the parser I made just rips those out when you browserify things since I don't know how this would work if you put this in the middle of your bundle
22:21:22  <thl0>marcello3d: https://github.com/thlorenz/parse-base64vlq-mappings/blob/master/index.js#L67
22:21:27  <marcello3d>(I've never used sourcemaps)
22:21:39  <marcello3d>(I don't use coffeescript or any of those things)
22:22:17  <thl0>marcello3d: in the future if more people want to bundle minified code and preserve names, we could improve this, but for now this solution should cover most people ;)
22:23:06  <defunctzombie>ins0mnia: Raynos: tonight I will clean up engine.io-stream
22:23:11  <marcello3d>I mean, it seems like the ideal is to be developing with the exact same JS you send to end-users
22:23:13  <defunctzombie>and make the readme make sense
22:23:13  <Raynos>good luck
22:23:16  <marcello3d>so ideally you'd run compressed all the time
22:23:19  <Raynos>I will fix sockjs/shoe when I need to
22:23:29  <Raynos>FIX ALL THE THINGS
22:23:29  <LOUDBOT>THREE PEDESTRIANS ARE KILLED AFTER BEING KNOCKED DOWN BY A CAR DURING BIRMINGHAM RIOTS
22:23:35  <Raynos>still use browserify 1.x :p
22:24:03  * rvaggquit (Excess Flood)
22:24:12  <st_luke>anyone ever register a trademark?
22:24:13  <st_luke>doing that now
22:24:24  <ins0mnia>st_luke: I have
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22:25:01  <Raynos>st_luke: because of twitter? :p
22:25:09  <st_luke>Raynos: what do you mean?
22:25:27  <Raynos>if you have a trademark you can make twitter give you a name
22:25:29  * thl0joined
22:25:35  <st_luke>Raynos: oh, nah
22:25:41  <st_luke>just want to make sure someone doesn't steal something
22:26:01  <ins0mnia>st_luke: I have a great trademark/IP lawer (in the US) if you need one
22:26:10  <st_luke>holy shit, $325 filing fee
22:26:15  <st_luke>ins0mnia: im just using legalzoom cause its easy
22:26:41  <st_luke>but paying $500 blows
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22:38:28  <mbalho>weeeee https://github.com/maxogden/data-table
22:39:10  <st_luke>mbalho: do you have an llc set up to do the taco conf west stuff through?
22:39:18  <st_luke>guessing mikeal used his for last year's
22:39:19  <Raynos>substack: the shoe bug is a 0.0.9 thing
22:39:44  <mbalho>st_luke: gonna use mikeals again
22:40:50  <st_luke>mbalho: cool, im gonna see if I can get the startup im working for to give some sponsorship money since its event oriented, then we can split it between the coasts
22:49:16  <Raynos>substack: pretty sure it's this commit ( https://github.com/substack/shoe/commit/504c0af68ff33b08e84d8bd8d21bf7a78fdd9f4c#L9R11)
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23:03:17  <mbalho>so... how do i write a module in 0.10.0 that uses streams + works with browserify?
23:03:34  <mbalho>i dont care if they are streams1 or streams2 in this case, i just want pipe to work
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23:05:02  <st_luke>I hope .10 doesnt become the version nobody uses for a long time because streams are different
23:05:19  <st_luke>i think im going to start using it in production
23:06:18  <mbalho>i prefer the streams2 api for declaring streams, not its just a matter of getting things like browserify updated
23:08:07  <Raynos>mbalho: use streams2 ?
23:08:26  <Raynos>isaacs: https://github.com/isaacs/streams2 :D
23:08:40  <mbalho>ahha
23:08:44  <Raynos>Not that module
23:08:54  <Raynos>but isaacs needs to update the streams2 npm name to be readable-stream
23:08:55  <Raynos>Oh
23:09:18  * No9quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:09:30  <Raynos>mbalho: you should be able to require("readable-stream") from npm and shit should work in browserify
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23:37:29  <st_luke>isaacs: let me know what you think about that nave patch
23:37:39  <st_luke>isaacs: it's more of a convenience but it's been kinda bugging me
23:37:51  <st_luke>isaacs: nave is awesome btw, so much better than nvm
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