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| <chrisdickinson> | hearing such great things about using browserify in #js-git |
| 00:37:52
| <chrisdickinson> | creationix is still a lil' iffy on it |
| 00:38:00
| <chrisdickinson> | but others are pretty happy with it |
| 00:40:30
| <mbalho> | git with the times, creationix! |
| 00:40:34
| <mbalho> | git checkout modernity |
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| 00:44:52
| <chrisdickinson> | hah |
| 00:45:17
| <chrisdickinson> | mbalho: the hardest things to get over are that he doesn't want to use node's streams and that he dislikes the buffer abstraction |
| 00:45:47
| <chrisdickinson> | (to be fair, there's been kind of a diaspora re: streams since 0.10; and browserify's buffers are … a weird place to be) |
| 00:51:13
| <mbalho> | yea i actually -1 buffer as well |
| 00:51:29
| <mbalho> | but more work on it would be awesome |
| 00:51:45
| <mbalho> | maybe he can write a buffer that works in both envs |
| 00:51:52
| <mbalho> | (if that is possible) |
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| <dominictarr> | the seal has been broken |
| 01:09:00
| <dominictarr> | if you have 2 types of streams you might as well have MANY |
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| <substack> | everything used to be so simple :/ |
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| 02:40:42
| <thl0> | do we have something like a CDN for browserify modules anywhere substack? |
| 02:40:54
| <thl0> | it would host precompiled browserify modules |
| 02:41:25
| <thl0> | so people whose apps are not using browserify can still use them, just an idea |
| 02:43:01
| <mbalho> | ive wanted that for a while too |
| 02:44:18
| <thl0> | I just see this divide between the component people, then the ones who still use vendor modules, the bower people and the browserify ones |
| 02:45:48
| <thl0> | leading to stuff like this: https://github.com/twolfson/computedStyle/tree/master/dist |
| 02:46:02
| <mbalho> | :O |
| 02:46:48
| <thl0> | so if each module system also provided a generic form of each package, people could use modules from all faiths |
| 02:47:17
| <thl0> | and combine them in their apps, although of course using npm for module management oughta be preferred |
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| 02:56:59
| <substack> | thl0: I think the "npm ought to be preferred" is where most of the disagreements come from |
| 02:57:57
| <thl0> | substack: I guess it's more obvious for people who already use it to manager their server side modules with it |
| 02:58:39
| <thl0> | what I'm seeing is just that lots of effort will be duplicated across different module systems |
| 02:58:52
| <thl0> | cause they can't work together easily |
| 03:04:00
| <substack> | that's intrinsic to having separate module systems |
| 03:04:23
| <substack> | if 2 module systems are trivially interoperable then they are 1 module system |
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| 03:17:38
| <thl0> | substack: well you could have a service that hosts browserified bundles so I could consume them without browserify |
| 03:18:19
| <thl0> | a simple but bad way would be to add a suffix at the bottom that requires all of them and attaches to the window (not suggesting that as a solution) |
| 03:19:13
| <thl0> | it would be cool though to provide a solution I could just source via a script tag (i.e. if you want to use it in your github page) |
| 03:21:43
| <thl0> | substack: on the other hand we could also hope that everyone eventually finds their way to browserify ;) |
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| 06:54:42
| <jesusabdullah> | thl0: I wrote something kind of like this some time ago, it's on my github, ctrl-f browserify |
| 06:55:11
| <jesusabdullah> | thl0: I did a rewrite in flatiron so it's not my best work but there is a nodejitsu blog post about it, conceptually fairly straightforward |
| 06:56:04
| <jesusabdullah> | thl0: used to be hosted on nodejitsu when I had free drones... |
| 07:07:18
| <jesusabdullah> | thl0: http://blog.jit.su/getting-started-with-flatiron blog post about browserify-cdn, https://github.com/jesusabdullah/browserify-cdn code, probably more or less works ootb and simple enough to refactor |
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| 08:50:00
| <juliangruber> | Raynos: looks like in browserify v2 the (require)('./bla') hack doesn't work anymore |
| 08:50:10
| <juliangruber> | it broke engine.io-client |
| 08:50:32
| <substack> | correct |
| 08:50:40
| <substack> | use the browser field now |
| 08:50:49
| <substack> | or var require_ = require; require_() |
| 08:50:58
| <juliangruber> | :D |
| 08:51:00
| <juliangruber> | ok, thanks |
| 08:51:07
| <substack> | browser field is better |
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| 08:55:17
| <juliangruber> | substack: you were talking about a ignore-field or something for browserify yesterday, right? |
| 08:55:48
| <juliangruber> | engine.io has those try { emitter = require('emitter') } catch(e){ Emitter = require('emitter-componet') } things all over the place |
| 08:57:43
| <substack> | those are lame |
| 08:58:09
| <juliangruber> | do you mean those try/catches or the learnboost guys? :P |
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| <substack> | pirates getting some seats in iceland |
| 09:55:09
| <substack> | and so it begins! |
| 10:20:20
| <substack> | juliangruber: was it you who wrote an inherit() that works in non-es5 browsers? |
| 10:29:31
| <substack> | I'll just require('inherits/inherits-old') |
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| <juliangruber> | substack: I only use util.inherits |
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| <juliangruber> | substack: doesn't the browserify version of util.inherits work in older browsers? |
| 12:13:53
| <substack> | probably |
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| <juliangruber> | i know it works in ie8 |
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| <juliangruber> | how can I check if a net connection is still up? |
| 13:41:59
| <juliangruber> | net.readable == net.writable == true? |
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| <juliangruber> | /net/connection/ |
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| 14:12:59
| <defunctzombie> | juliangruber: I have an engine.io client version that works |
| 14:13:03
| <defunctzombie> | juliangruber: with browserify |
| 14:13:23
| <juliangruber> | defunctzombie: raynos's will work too with my 2 pull requests merged |
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| <defunctzombie> | juliangruber: is that more up to date? |
| 14:23:40
| <juliangruber> | defunctzombie: dunno. can you give me a link of your version? |
| 14:24:02
| <defunctzombie> | juliangruber: https://github.com/shtylman/engine.io-client/tree/v0.4.3-dz1 |
| 14:24:08
| <defunctzombie> | juliangruber: I think that is the latest I have |
| 14:24:35
| <juliangruber> | yours is more recent |
| 14:24:40
| <juliangruber> | raynos has 0.4.0 |
| 14:24:44
| <defunctzombie> | juliangruber: you patches are incorrect I think |
| 14:24:47
| <defunctzombie> | with the browser field |
| 14:24:56
| <juliangruber> | engine.io-stream whould use yours then |
| 14:24:58
| <juliangruber> | why? |
| 14:25:22
| <defunctzombie> | juliangruber: oh, yea, I also have a more recent engine.io-stream |
| 14:25:23
| <defunctzombie> | haha |
| 14:25:48
| <defunctzombie> | https://github.com/Raynos/engine.io-stream/tree/wip-refactor |
| 14:25:57
| <juliangruber> | oh sweet |
| 14:26:18
| <juliangruber> | has the api changed? |
| 14:26:26
| <juliangruber> | yes it has |
| 14:26:30
| <defunctzombie> | don't think so |
| 14:26:36
| <defunctzombie> | the api stayed the same |
| 14:26:39
| <defunctzombie> | some internal things changed |
| 14:26:40
| <juliangruber> | the requires are different |
| 14:26:51
| <juliangruber> | you don't need the require('engine-stream/server') in your version |
| 14:26:55
| <defunctzombie> | yea |
| 14:26:58
| <defunctzombie> | you can if you want |
| 14:27:03
| <defunctzombie> | but you don't need it with browserify |
| 14:27:11
| <defunctzombie> | cause I use the browser field for that |
| 14:29:16
| <juliangruber> | yes |
| 14:29:24
| <juliangruber> | hm, my thing is broken with the newer version |
| 14:29:33
| <juliangruber> | http://localhost:4000/engine/?EIO=undefined&transport=polling |
| 14:29:38
| <juliangruber> | that url looks broken |
| 14:30:32
| <juliangruber> | it's not transmitting any data |
| 14:31:33
| <defunctzombie> | that url is quite broken |
| 14:31:45
| <defunctzombie> | undefined haha |
| 14:32:44
| <defunctzombie> | I should also update the client to 0.5.0 |
| 14:34:29
| <defunctzombie> | Raynos: should I merge those engine.io-stream things? |
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| 15:02:00
| <thl0> | juliangruber: that browserify as a service thing looks promising |
| 15:02:06
| <thl0> | unfortunately http://browserify.nodejitsu.com/ is dead |
| 15:03:35
| <thl0> | sorry meant jesusabdullah |
| 15:05:55
| <thl0> | substack: is browser field the same as browserify field in package.json? |
| 15:06:31
| <thl0> | a bit confused since shoe has "browserify": "browser.js" |
| 15:06:39
| <dominictarr> | js build farm! |
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| 15:31:33
| <defunctzombie> | thl0: https://gist.github.com/shtylman/4339901 |
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| <thl0> | defunctzombie_zz: ah, so browserify field is obsolete? |
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| 15:55:18
| <mcollina> | hi everyone :) |
| 15:57:12
| <ralphtheninja> | mcollina: Heya! Welcome :) |
| 15:57:39
| <dominictarr> | mcollina: hey, whats up? |
| 15:59:26
| <mcollina> | Coding as usual, while I have to write some stuff. |
| 16:00:39
| <mcollina> | ralphtheninja: thanks for the tip on this channel. |
| 16:01:07
| <ralphtheninja> | mcollina: yw! it's nice to have a common place, all sorts of weird stuff happening in here |
| 16:01:13
| <ralphtheninja> | I'm mostly babbling :D |
| 16:03:46
| <dominictarr> | mcollina: _lots_ of mad science happens in here |
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| 16:05:07
| <mcollina> | I love mad science. Impossible things being done because the inventors didn't know they were impossible :D. |
| 16:05:26
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| 16:05:54
| <dominictarr> | exactly! |
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| 16:09:50
| <dominictarr> | mcollina: so, this graph database is something I've wanted to do with levelup for a while! |
| 16:10:00
| <dominictarr> | I'm very glad that you have started the project! |
| 16:13:05
| <dominictarr> | hey, there is something different about nextTick in 0.10, right? |
| 16:13:09
| <mcollina> | It has been kind of an accident. Having a couple of free hours, the Hexastore paper printed on the desk, and a tweet about levelup. LevelDB is really crazy, and LevelUp is super-simple to use. |
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| 16:15:00
| <mcollina> | Yes, it's executed always before any I/O. |
| 16:15:13
| <mcollina> | in v0.8 this was not guaranted. |
| 16:20:01
| <dominictarr> | hmm, yeah, I'm getting a race condition in level-trigger ... |
| 16:20:26
| <dominictarr> | mcollina: yeah - I am particularily interested in graph traversals |
| 16:20:38
| <dominictarr> | shortest path is pretty simple |
| 16:20:41
| <dominictarr> | A* |
| 16:20:42
| <dominictarr> | etc |
| 16:20:56
| <dominictarr> | but I would love to see how fast they are in leveldb |
| 16:21:02
| <ralphtheninja> | mcollina: a happy accident! |
| 16:21:14
| <mcollina> | dominictarr: I guessed right in asking for your opinion then. |
| 16:21:33
| <dominictarr> | yes! |
| 16:22:11
| <dominictarr> | should be better than shoe horning that into a non imbedded db, because you don't have to go to the network. |
| 16:22:24
| <mcollina> | dominictarr: we need good implementations for graph traversal in node.js. Generic, reusable stuff. |
| 16:22:52
| <dominictarr> | so, I implemented the thing that resolves node modules |
| 16:23:00
| <mcollina> | Cool! |
| 16:23:07
| <dominictarr> | https://github.com/dominictarr/npmd/blob/master/resolve.js |
| 16:23:29
| <dominictarr> | that takes 50ms once the cache is warm |
| 16:23:35
| <dominictarr> | for browserify |
| 16:23:40
| <dominictarr> | which is a large module |
| 16:23:47
| <mcollina> | ralphtheninja: yes! It's now my more popular thing on Github. Like 43 stars in three days. |
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| 16:24:40
| <ralphtheninja> | more and more people showing up from all around, I like the node approach to levelup, with a simple core and then build clean abstractions on top of it |
| 16:25:01
| <dominictarr> | browserify has 72 recursive deps |
| 16:25:21
| <dominictarr> | so, to resolve that, it has to hit the db many times |
| 16:25:35
| <dominictarr> | and, for many, it has to wait for the round trip |
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| 16:25:56
| <ralphtheninja> | dominictarr: how much improvement is 50ms to the time it takes now? must be enormous |
| 16:26:13
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| 16:26:19
| <dominictarr> | well, that isn't installing the modules |
| 16:26:30
| <dominictarr> | npm resolves as it installs |
| 16:26:37
| <dominictarr> | so you can't compare it really. |
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| 16:27:44
| <mcollina> | dominictarr: you are pre downloading the full npm index, right? How big it is? |
| 16:27:55
| <dominictarr> | mcollina: 480mb |
| 16:27:59
| <dominictarr> | currently |
| 16:28:06
| <dominictarr> | it was only 360 a month ago |
| 16:28:31
| <dominictarr> | once it's downloaded, it just pulls in the changes, though. |
| 16:29:01
| <mcollina> | So it's 50ms in that setup, right? |
| 16:29:16
| <dominictarr> | when the cache is warm. |
| 16:29:19
| <dominictarr> | yes |
| 16:30:57
| <ralphtheninja> | dominictarr: the cache is warm .. meaning the files have been hit at least once by the os? |
| 16:31:25
| <dominictarr> | something like that - I think leveldb has it's own cache, but there is a os cache too |
| 16:32:10
| <dominictarr> | mcollina: I read the google pregel paper a while back. |
| 16:32:18
| <dominictarr> | very interesting stuff there |
| 16:32:39
| <ralphtheninja> | dominictarr: correct, there is a read cache for frequently accessed keys |
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| 16:35:37
| <mcollina> | dominictarr: Then I will read the Pregel paper :). |
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| 16:39:43
| <mcollina> | dominictarr: the things is that hacking on the graph algorithms and on npm stuff at the same time might not be really clear. In the land of ms, an algorithm problem can slow things down. A good implementation of the depth-first, bread-first, A*, ecc algorithms might be very helpful. Moreover, everything should be done asynchronously :). |
| 16:40:39
| <dominictarr> | yes - I have a generic depthWidth, and leafFirst |
| 16:40:49
| <dominictarr> | and widthFirst |
| 16:41:08
| <dominictarr> | you just pass in a function that returns a stream of the child nodes |
| 16:41:33
| <dominictarr> | I have used them to traverse files and directories also! |
| 16:41:54
| <mcollina> | repo? :) |
| 16:42:04
| <dominictarr> | https://github.com/dominictarr/pull-stream/blob/master/sources.js#L73-L137 |
| 16:42:25
| <dominictarr> | should probably pull them into their own repo. |
| 16:43:27
| <dominictarr> | A* should be pretty simple to build on top of that, but I need a use for it. |
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| 16:47:57
| <mcollina> | Or you might write a better README for the pull-stream package. Looking at the source is pretty cool, but you don't get the full thing. These graph algorithm traversal are so compact because of it. |
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| 16:51:34
| <dominictarr> | mcollina: tell me what you find confusing/unclear |
| 16:51:51
| <dominictarr> | I need help to see it as a beginner, since I wrote it. |
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| <mcollina> | Implementing A* can be done by adding a "score" function, and sorting the nodes to open using it. A valid heuristic function might be the package "semver" or the package age, or just the number of package dependencies. However in the npm case, you have to open all the nodes (I believe). |
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| <mcollina> | The real question I have when I open a README is "what I use this for". The pull-stream library answer with "simplify the usage of stream". However you can do graph-traversal and the like with a few lines of code. In the readme there is no "wow" effect. You should add a quick-example solving a real-world proble like async does. |
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| <dominictarr> | mcollina: thanks. |
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| 17:13:16
| <mcollina> | If I knew about pull-stream a couple of month before I would have saved lots of time :P. I implemented https://github.com/mcollina/kanban without using streams, that was a very bad idea. |
| 17:13:18
| <mcollina> | :) |
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| <dominictarr> | pull-stream didn't exist 2 months ago! |
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| <dominictarr> | mcollina: maybe I should implement A* with pull streams just so I have a good example... |
| 17:20:21
| <mcollina> | yeah! :) Add these graph-stuff in the pull-stream readme too! (or put them in a separate package). |
| 17:22:23
| * thatguydan | part |
| 17:23:42
| <dominictarr> | pull-stream is largly about lazy async iteration |
| 17:24:17
| <dominictarr> | and being able to do complex things that would be difficult with normal node streams. |
| 17:27:19
| <mcollina> | The other thing that's misleading is that it seems it is based on node's Stream, when it's not. I know how hard can be these things. |
| 17:31:01
| <mcollina> | I had hit a fairly typical performance-wall while spawning multiple process to do CPU-bound stuff. Then, I have written my own pull-based library. Pull-stream does exactly what I was looking for. |
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| <dominictarr> | cool! |
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| <fotoverite> | dominictarr: you got a food truck rec for downtown portland? |
| 17:37:34
| <fotoverite> | Too bad there is no cheese wizards here |
| 17:37:40
| <dominictarr> | they are all good. |
| 17:37:44
| <fotoverite> | :D |
| 17:37:59
| <fotoverite> | How goes the streams |
| 17:38:22
| <dominictarr> | I got a strange bug in something |
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| <jjjjohnnny> | in the browser, better to have one giant float32array or many small ones, your guess or mine |
| 18:10:21
| <jjjjohnnny> | as expected, concaculatin' the many small ones is not eventually enough |
| 18:10:57
| <jjjjohnnny> | oh smash |
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| <juliangruber> | did anyone get smartos running on a macbook? |
| 18:49:24
| <juliangruber> | doesn't even boot on mine |
| 18:50:38
| <juliangruber> | chromeos didn't work either -.- |
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| <no9> | juliangruber side install or VM? |
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| <juliangruber> | no9: main install, as it's my side computer |
| 19:17:44
| <no9> | K did you try open indiana? |
| 19:17:57
| <no9> | Has a live cd to you can see what the story is |
| 19:18:28
| <no9> | http://openindiana.org/ |
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| <juliangruber> | no9: not yet, thanks, I will! |
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| <jjjjohnnny> | a module that treats many (an array) of buffers as a single buffer #abracadabra |
| 20:03:19
| <jjjjohnnny> | of course https://github.com/substack/node-buffers |
| 20:04:56
| <substack> | beep boop |
| 20:05:58
| <jjjjohnnny> | substack: will that work with float32arrays |
| 20:06:20
| <mbalho> | jjjjohnnny: arent arraybuffers what you want |
| 20:06:48
| <jjjjohnnny> | mbalho: working with floats :\ |
| 20:07:03
| <jjjjohnnny> | which is a view on an arraybuffer |
| 20:13:41
| <jjjjohnnny> | i'll just pull out these silly errors and the module will work with any arraybuffer i bet |
| 20:15:08
| <jjjjohnnny> | oooh copy foul |
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| <chrisdickinson> | fotoverite: if you manage to make it over to the east side, there are tons of good food cart at se 12th and hawthorne |
| 20:17:18
| <chrisdickinson> | *carts, even |
| 20:17:19
| <chrisdickinson> | though, saw your tweet; luc lac is also really good |
| 20:17:21
| <chrisdickinson> | double dragon is delicious and is on se 12th and division (another bahn mi-ish place); and is happily situated between beermongers and apex |
| 20:17:21
| <chrisdickinson> | & of course there's bailey's and santeria in downtown on broadway / ankeny |
| 20:17:25
| <chrisdickinson> | (i think it's ankeny...) |
| 20:18:15
| <chrisdickinson> | there's also a pdxnode meetup this week i think at new relic |
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| <jez0990_> | is there a REST module/layer for levelup? |
| 21:18:01
| <jez0990_> | or perhaps a nice a way of implementing one? |
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| 21:22:02
| <dominictarr> | jesusabdullah: multilevel-http |
| 21:22:14
| <dominictarr> | I mean jez0990_ ! sorry! |
| 21:24:29
| <jez0990_> | dominictarr: awesome, thanks! |
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| <jez0990_> | defunctzombie_zz: thinking about it now, would this solve your email queue problem requirements for level...? |
| 21:34:11
| <mikeal> | what is that library people are using to concat files in to browserify? |
| 21:34:58
| <substack> | into? |
| 21:35:28
| <mikeal> | well, before i guess is a better term |
| 21:35:41
| <substack> | what are you trying to do? |
| 21:35:58
| <mikeal> | basically, i have the browserify bundle which i stream to a response object |
| 21:36:06
| <mikeal> | i need to stick some other javascript files before it |
| 21:36:14
| <mikeal> | like the socketio client |
| 21:36:23
| <mikeal> | which aren't getting run through browserify |
| 21:36:52
| <substack> | so just do that? |
| 21:37:23
| <substack> | https://github.com/dominictarr/convoy-stream |
| 21:37:43
| <substack> | oh wait it uses message packing to reconstruct |
| 21:38:16
| <dominictarr> | try https://ghub.io/stream-stream |
| 21:38:52
| <substack> | yeah that looks about right |
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| <Raynos> | defunctzombie: you can merge & fix the engine.io-stream things |
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| <mikeal> | anyone using uglify-js as a stream? |
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| 21:53:43
| <defunctzombie> | jez0990_: I came up with this for now: https://github.com/shtylman/node-filepile |
| 21:54:01
| <defunctzombie> | jez0990_: basically, I don't want another "service" that I have to run for something like email queues |
| 21:54:09
| <defunctzombie> | jez0990_: most of the time the emails are sent immediately |
| 21:54:23
| <defunctzombie> | jez0990_: I just need to handle the case when one is not sent or something to retry it |
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| <defunctzombie> | Raynos: what should be fixed? |
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| <rowbit> | /!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) [email protected] successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\ |
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| <rowbit> | /!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\ |
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| <dominictarr> | hmm |
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| <dominictarr> | oh, tape doesn't exit in 0.10? |
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| <jjjjohnnny> | i have successfully ripped the aac from youtube vids, streamed it to the browser, decompressed and resampled with web workers, and now i can play secret synthesizers on an ipad |
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| <juliangruber> | jjjjohnnny: sounds way too good! |
| 22:32:15
| <jjjjohnnny> | juliangruber: it is. it is the missing link |
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| <jjjjohnnny> | what is the node file system method for checking a file exists without throwing an error if it doesn't? |
| 22:40:39
| <jjjjohnnny> | i consistently have try catch syntax errors, what is my malfunction? |
| 22:40:48
| <jjjjohnnny> | (I never use try catch) |
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| <jjjjohnnny> | mercy itit give smee chills |
| 22:48:02
| <dominictarr> | substack: defunctzombie_zz Raynos juliangruber does anyone actually use subtests in tape/tap? |
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| <jjjjohnnny> | bout to put a accelowhammy bar on every song ever |
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| <substack> | accelowhammy! |
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| <dominictarr> | substack: tape in 0.10 is really weird! |
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| <dominictarr> | in 0.10 it runs some tests twice! |
| 23:09:16
| <substack> | I'm working on fixing it right now |
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| 23:09:25
| <substack> | by ripping a lot of it out |
| 23:17:55
| <jjjjohnnny> | ipad sounds like it is losing power. maybe a belt is slipping? |
| 23:18:19
| <jjjjohnnny> | spring module cleaning |
| 23:19:51
| <substack> | tighten the sprockets |
| 23:20:08
| <substack> | change the liquid crystals |
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| 23:30:17
| <mikeal> | testling image is broken :( https://github.com/mikeal/broquire |
| 23:31:37
| <substack> | investigating |
| 23:32:09
| <mbalho> | "broquire" :( |
| 23:33:43
| <mikeal> | haha :) |
| 23:36:30
| <dominictarr> | substack: it's totally weird, how come it keeps looping? |
| 23:36:50
| <substack> | I didn't put in the effort to figure that out since it was messy anyways |
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| <dominictarr> | if there is something that needs to be correct, it's a test framework. |
| 23:43:34
| <dominictarr> | oh yeah - substack you should module.expots = test; test.test = test |
| 23:43:43
| <dominictarr> | so that is is drop in compat with tap |
| 23:43:52
| <substack> | good idea |
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