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00:00:43  <jesusabdullah>yeah, that sounds bigger than nodejitsu's
00:00:46  <jesusabdullah>hmmmm
00:00:51  <jesusabdullah>yeah, this is a good idea
00:01:19  <anvaka>interesting. I put my github recommendation database in s3 buckets. Now I'm thinking maybe it wasn't wise idea :)
00:01:44  <jesusabdullah>not the worst idea
00:02:08  <jesusabdullah>hmmm, I wonder if there's a good way to add auto-pruning to my leveldb to keep it under a certain size
00:02:18  <mbalho>lru
00:02:24  * jcrugzzquit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:03:03  <mbalho>ah was thinking of https://github.com/Raynos/level-cache
00:03:18  <__Raynos>I'm starting oh hi
00:03:20  <mbalho>but thats in memory
00:03:28  <mbalho>you should write a level-expire module
00:03:34  <__Raynos>there is one
00:03:36  <__Raynos>level ttl
00:03:45  * thl0joined
00:03:59  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: yeah I got expiry
00:04:08  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: level-ttl
00:04:30  <mbalho>oooh
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00:04:45  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: but I need one that also prunes stale entries until the db is under a certain size, in case it gets enough use to max out the hd space on an openshift
00:04:52  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: or wherever I decide to host
00:06:09  <anvaka>jesusabdullah: why do you want to store it in leveldb? Why not store serialized .js on cdn?
00:06:30  <anvaka>jesusabdullah: or I'm getting it wrong?
00:09:47  <jesusabdullah>anvaka: leveldb is for caching so I can avoid build steps, right now it's not on a cdn
00:10:07  <jesusabdullah>anvaka: right now it's not a real cdn
00:10:22  <jesusabdullah>anvaka: I suppose I could ditch that with a cdn that has sufficiently aggressive caching
00:13:47  <jesusabdullah>anvaka: in fact, I probably should ditch it altogether, and depend on the cdn to handle it
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00:15:48  <anvaka>jesusabdullah: I was only thinking of leveldb as a lightweight proxy to provide this nice rest api and do the mapping between request and browserified bundle location on CDN
00:16:48  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: there is also level-capped by juliangruber
00:16:57  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: that sounds about right
00:17:17  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: what do you think? Can I depend on the cdn to handle caching, or should I have a 2nd leveldb layer of caching?
00:17:30  <dominictarr>which cdn?
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00:19:45  <anvaka>jesusabdullah: I would go with CDN caching, and let leveldb to return 302s to redirect clients to proper resources :). Not sure how viable it is :)
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00:24:21  <jesusabdullah>anvaka: yeah
00:24:44  <jesusabdullah>anvaka: One thing to consider is, right now I cache both semver ranges -> match and builds
00:24:56  <jesusabdullah>anvaka: so I think maybe just a small-ish cache
00:25:49  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: with critter creator, is there a good way to export these as geometries I can use in voxeljs?
00:26:14  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: yea see source code of http://shama.github.io/voxel-critter
00:26:20  <chrisdickinson>hah, beat me to it
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00:28:15  <jesusabdullah>auuugh that wasn't a happy thing there
00:28:36  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: I'm trying to make non-critters, actually. Props, if you will.
00:29:00  <mbalho>https://github.com/substack/voxel-json
00:30:41  <jesusabdullah>how the Hell do I get a critter to pop up in front of me? :(
00:32:41  <jesusabdullah>yeah mbalho that doesn't look useful for what I want to do
00:32:46  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: I want to make guns
00:33:15  <mbalho>fork the repos?
00:33:47  <jesusabdullah>why?
00:34:15  <mbalho>if they dont do what you want you can fork em
00:35:04  <jesusabdullah>no I mean, voxel-json isn't even in the ballpark, and voxel-critter is probably close enough as long as I can extract the geometry
00:35:09  <jesusabdullah>but yeah I might fork voxel-creator
00:36:46  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: I'll need creatures to shoot as well, so the critter thing is cool too
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00:44:50  <mbalho>there are tons of kids that have made weapons in there too
00:44:54  <mbalho>look at the recently made critters
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00:59:21  <jesusabdullah>oh I will
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00:59:34  <jesusabdullah>now that I've rebooted, chrome should have enough free memories that it won't asplode
00:59:55  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: you ever play serious sam?
01:00:12  <mbalho>nope
01:05:12  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: I wanna make a game kiiiinda like that
01:05:14  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: eventually
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01:06:25  <jesusabdullah>!npm lsb
01:06:30  <_ddgbot>https://npmjs.org/search?q=lsb
01:07:34  <jesusabdullah>oh, clever, I see how that works
01:08:43  <mikolalysenko>I think I figured out a neat syntactic trick for hiding map reduce operations in js...
01:08:49  <jesusabdullah>orly
01:08:56  <mikolalysenko>specifically you can use the for(...in...) loop
01:09:25  <mikolalysenko>this would be for a next-generation cwise module for ndarrays
01:09:34  <mikolalysenko>specifically one that can apply tensor operations to ndarrays
01:09:50  <mikolalysenko>ie, do nested map-reduce
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01:11:14  <jesusabdullah>neato
01:11:25  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: do you know if anyone has made a module for holding voxel objects?
01:11:27  <mikolalysenko>I need to think about it more carefully, but it may actually work
01:12:42  <jesusabdullah>cool :D
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01:18:57  <anvaka>jesusabdullah: Does this look helpful: http://www.yasiv.com/github/#/costars?q=maxogden%2Fvoxel-engine :)?
01:21:49  <anvaka>I am not spamming anymore :).
01:21:53  <anvaka>hope it was useful
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01:25:28  <jesusabdullah>anvaka: neato
01:25:32  <jesusabdullah>anvaka: and you're not spamming
01:25:45  <jesusabdullah>okay, making a repo of png-based models for weaponry :)
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01:40:03  <jesusabdullah>lol this rocket launcher is sick XD
01:40:44  <AvianFlu>oh god what are you blowing up now
01:40:52  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: voxel creatures?
01:40:55  <AvianFlu>oh leet
01:40:59  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: making weapon models for later work
01:41:02  <AvianFlu>where/how/why am I not involved
01:41:07  <AvianFlu>sweet
01:41:11  <jesusabdullah>because I just started playing with voxel-creator today
01:41:23  <jesusabdullah>gonna start with the pngs
01:41:32  <AvianFlu>hilarious
01:42:30  <jesusabdullah>I'll ping you when I push
01:42:50  <mbalho>AvianFlu: i made this and lots of kids have designed weird things http://voxelbuilder.com/
01:42:58  <mbalho>AvianFlu: hit 'recently made critters'
01:43:19  <AvianFlu>mbalho: majorly leet
01:44:27  <AvianFlu>I need to start playing with all these fun voxel things
01:44:37  <AvianFlu>haven't gotten around to it yet
01:54:39  * tilgoviquit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
02:02:14  * anvakajoined
02:09:50  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: https://github.com/jesusabdullah/voxel-weapons/blob/master/gun/chaingun.png
02:10:06  <AvianFlu>lolwin
02:10:09  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: apparently these pngs have metadata that you can actually load as voxel objects
02:10:35  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: https://github.com/jesusabdullah/voxel-weapons/blob/master/melee/chainsaw.png favorite
02:10:46  <jesusabdullah>okay, so I have some models
02:11:06  <jesusabdullah>there's a projectile model already, that's good
02:11:10  <jesusabdullah>I can worry about hp later
02:11:33  <jesusabdullah>so I can either try to make characters carry these, which sounds vaguely hard
02:11:40  <jesusabdullah>or I can work on something that creates explosions
02:11:42  <jesusabdullah>which sounds easier
02:12:24  <jesusabdullah>I should look at how voxel-portal works to make doom-style pseudo-3d graphics too, I want those for explosions I think XD
02:15:18  <jesusabdullah>of course, if there's already voxel-debris it probably makes more sense to use that?
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03:19:45  <creationix>Raynos: dominictarr, thanks for the streams feedback so far. Sorry if I tire you guys with questions
03:19:59  <dominictarr>creationix: no problem!
03:21:24  <creationix>heh, maybe rename consume to pull and have a.pull(b).pull(c) syntax
03:21:37  <creationix>reverse of node's a.pipe(b).pipe(c)
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03:30:36  <dominictarr>creationix: right to left would probably be okay, if we spoke arabic
03:31:03  <dominictarr>also, chaining adds lots of ) that can be hard to match
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03:31:19  <dominictarr>I've switched to: pull(A, B, C)
03:31:56  <tim_smart>dominictarr: Yo. npmd is throwing EXDEV errors
03:32:06  <tim_smart>My /tmp folder is a seperate partition
03:32:18  <dominictarr>tim_smart: post an issue
03:32:27  <tim_smart>Righto
03:32:37  <dominictarr>npmd is very alpha
03:33:16  <dominictarr>tim_smart: does os.tmpdir() give the right value for you?
03:33:45  <tim_smart>dominictarr: '/tmp/tim'
03:33:48  <tim_smart>which is right
03:36:45  <tim_smart>dominictarr: https://github.com/dominictarr/npmd/issues/4
03:37:21  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: is there a voxeljs wish list somewhere I can add things to?
03:48:29  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: is there an irc channel for voxeljs?
03:50:40  <jesusabdullah>http://shama.github.io/voxel-avatar/ This is straight epic
03:50:45  <jesusabdullah>shama: ^^^ that is AWESOME
03:51:10  <shama>jesusabdullah: thanks!
03:51:43  <shama>jesusabdullah: the irc channel is #voxel.js and were tracking issues now on: github.com/voxel/issues
03:52:54  <jesusabdullah>shama: cool
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03:59:53  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: voxeljs.com at the bottom is the wishlist
04:00:11  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: Can I add to it?
04:00:20  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: github.com/voxel/voxeljs.com
04:00:25  <jesusabdullah>cool
04:00:45  <jesusabdullah>I'm gonna try to come up with a list of modules I think are needed to do convincing combat
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04:11:59  <dominictarr>tim_smart: okay, I'm gonna put in a config option
04:12:22  <dominictarr>tim_smart: by the way, what do time do you get for: time npm install request
04:12:44  <tim_smart>dominictarr: npm or npmd?
04:12:48  <dominictarr>npm
04:13:28  <tim_smart>waiting...
04:13:34  <tim_smart>...
04:13:52  <tim_smart>npm install request 11.48s user 0.86s system 25% cpu 49.322 total
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04:14:56  <jesusabdullah>any of you guys seen the stizz today?
04:15:37  <dominictarr>ah, cool. with npmd I'm getting 1.62 seconds
04:15:49  <dominictarr>will fix this config thing for you...
04:16:21  <tim_smart>dominictarr: Yeah 49 seconds is a long wait
04:16:49  <dominictarr>oh, shit! was that 49! I thought it was 11
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04:17:09  <tim_smart>dominictarr: npm install request 1.84s user 0.24s system 28% cpu 7.414 total
04:17:19  <tim_smart>^ this one is from a project directory
04:17:34  <dominictarr>probably has some deps already?
04:17:47  <tim_smart>Previous one was from the home directory
04:18:35  <tim_smart>dominictarr: OK, around 7 seconds average now
04:18:44  <tim_smart>Not sure why it went for 49 seconds before
04:19:17  <dominictarr>where you deleting the old one before you reinstall?
04:19:39  <tim_smart>dominictarr: Yeah
04:20:25  <tim_smart>dominictarr: rm -rf node_modules && time npm install request
04:20:30  <tim_smart>Around 7 seconds
04:21:10  <dominictarr>hmm - maybe was a cache thing?
04:21:31  <dominictarr>try a new module - browserify
04:23:03  <tim_smart>dominictarr: 14 seconds
04:23:09  <tim_smart>Must have been an edge case
04:23:58  <dominictarr>yeah, I see that sometimes - npm is slow sometimes...
04:24:29  <tim_smart>dominictarr: It must wait for isaacs to press the ok button every now and again
04:25:19  <dominictarr>haha, maybe sometimes he's afk and his cat has to press it.
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05:08:38  <dominictarr>isaacs: is there generic code for working with dependency trees, like the ones that npm shrinkwrap produces?
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05:35:36  <jcrugzz_>dominictarr: yea there needs to be moar npms everywhere
05:35:51  * jcrugzz_changed nick to jcrugzz
05:36:09  <dominictarr>jcrugzz: on every laptop!
05:36:29  <jcrugzz>connecting as both clients and servers right? :)
05:41:41  <jesusabdullah>dangit luke
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05:51:54  <tim_smart>dominictarr: Do you know if we can use npmd with latest node master? npm always fails at building native extensions
05:52:04  <tim_smart>I usually nvm use 0.10 in that case
05:52:11  * tim_smartshould probably google this
05:52:49  <dominictarr>tim_smart: I havn't added support for compiling yet
05:53:20  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: might be interesting to give npmd a shot with browserify-cdn
05:53:27  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: I'll give it a bit, try a conversion later
05:53:32  <tim_smart>Oh right, I haven't tried. I meant installing native extension using normal npm on latest node master
05:53:41  <jesusabdullah>obtw, still no sign of the stizz eh?
05:54:08  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: sure, my aim is faster installs
05:54:21  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: yeah, that's a good thing
05:54:33  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: at the tradeoff of high disk usage?
05:54:38  <dominictarr>you may also benefit from realtime cache invalidation
05:54:51  <jesusabdullah>mmhmm
05:54:59  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: npm uses loads of disk already
05:55:13  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: yeah I know
05:55:21  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: how much more disk does npmd use?
05:55:26  <dominictarr>I'm just avoiding unnecessary round trips
05:55:29  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: does it download the tarballs?
05:55:33  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: or just the docs?
05:56:10  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: my current ~/.npmd is 148 mb
05:56:33  <dominictarr>that is the metadata that npmd needs in a leveldb
05:57:27  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: aha
05:57:33  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: yeah that ain't bad at all
05:57:37  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: just the package.json and readme, uses npm cache like before
05:57:43  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: how's memory usage?
05:57:59  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: and that is INCLUDING a full text index
05:58:11  <jcrugzz>thats kinda of nice
05:58:16  <jesusabdullah>oh geez I read that as "and that is INCLUDINg a full text EDITOR"
05:58:18  <jesusabdullah>and I was, well
05:58:24  <jesusabdullah>shitting multiple bricks for a second there
05:58:54  <jesusabdullah>I was like, "dominictarr Y U include vim in npmdb"
05:58:59  <jesusabdullah>er npmd
05:59:03  <jesusabdullah>WAT EVAR
05:59:04  <LOUDBOT>I SENTENCE YOU TO AN ETERNITY OF DRIVING ON I-95... IN PENNSYLVANIA.
05:59:26  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: npmd is too cool for vim. npmd uses https://npm.im/hipster
05:59:49  <jcrugzz>dominictarr: so would you be able to hook it up where you publish a module to your local npm and that tries to stream its way out to other nodes?
05:59:51  <tim_smart>dominictarr: du -sh .npmd/
05:59:52  <tim_smart>171M .npmd/
05:59:55  <jesusabdullah>yeah it had better not be includenec
06:00:06  <tim_smart>*171M .npmd/
06:00:09  <jesusabdullah>I'll have to send you some "Separate Your Concerns!" phamplets
06:00:18  <jesusabdullah>which, by the way, would make awesome pamplets
06:00:18  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: I kid
06:00:34  * anvakaquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:00:50  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: yeah, perfect gag for sf...
06:01:13  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: so, there is a problem that I havn't tracked down, I think to do with couch syncing.
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06:02:43  <jesusabdullah>weak
06:02:48  <jesusabdullah>no sage advice there
06:02:49  <jesusabdullah>BUT
06:02:53  <jesusabdullah>ask AvianFlu
06:03:04  <jesusabdullah>because the nodejitsu balancers have to sync with couchdb
06:03:20  <jesusabdullah>oh also, using iriscouch/follow I hope? :v
06:04:03  <jesusabdullah>oh man these elderflower angry orchard apple ciders are awesome
06:04:36  <dominictarr>yes
06:04:48  <jesusabdullah>grood!
06:04:50  <jesusabdullah>I mean good
06:04:51  <jesusabdullah>and great
06:04:53  <jesusabdullah>great and good!
06:04:58  <dominictarr>hmm, it looks like it's continiously writing to level or something
06:05:22  <jesusabdullah>man if only I had netflix
06:05:26  <jesusabdullah>then I could watch some tv
06:05:38  <mikolalysenko> I am drinking this: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1471/3877
06:06:05  <jesusabdullah>dangit king street isn't on there
06:06:17  <jesusabdullah>local microbrewery, their pilsner is excellent
06:06:41  <jesusabdullah>I need to find places that do small-batch apple cider
06:07:01  <jesusabdullah>beer makes me sick apparently so I'm trying to cut back
06:07:08  <jesusabdullah>move towards boozes that don't make me sick
06:07:11  <jesusabdullah>like apple cider!
06:07:46  <mikolalysenko>just drink whiskey
06:08:15  <mikolalysenko>(I may have an alcohol problem...)
06:08:31  <jesusabdullah>I love whiskey too
06:08:39  <jesusabdullah>but too rough on my stomach, I drink it sparingly
06:08:57  <jesusabdullah>it's cool man, I'm on cider numba five
06:09:33  * gleemquit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
06:12:25  <mikolalysenko>problem with madison is that they stop selling booze after 9pm...
06:12:39  <mikolalysenko>except at the one liquor store in the district where all the senators live
06:12:42  <jesusabdullah>mikolalysenko: if I move to Provo it's gonna be a similar issue
06:13:18  <mikolalysenko>which is fortunately not too far from my place
06:13:27  <jesusabdullah>aha
06:13:32  <jesusabdullah>I was looking on google maps
06:13:40  <jesusabdullah>apparently there *isn't* a liquor store in Provo
06:13:42  <jesusabdullah>you have to go to Orem
06:13:46  <jesusabdullah>and they're all ran by the state
06:14:04  <mikolalysenko>that is pretty wtf
06:14:18  <jesusabdullah>I mean
06:14:36  <jesusabdullah>keep in mind Provo is the most conservative of all the Utahan cities
06:14:51  <jesusabdullah>at least that's what my INTERNET RECONNAISSANCE tells me
06:15:14  <jesusabdullah>and you know how mormons feel about psychoactive chemicals
06:15:17  <jesusabdullah>(not the same way I do)
06:15:24  <jesusabdullah>but hey
06:15:35  <jesusabdullah>on the bright side, if I'm smart I'll live near that one liquor store
06:15:41  <jesusabdullah>and if I'm lucky, goog maps was straight wrong
06:15:47  <jesusabdullah>there are in fact 3 bars in Provo
06:15:57  <jesusabdullah>which is still quite few, but more than one
06:15:59  <mikolalysenko>wow! 3!
06:16:03  <jesusabdullah>inorite
06:16:13  <jesusabdullah>mormons don't "do" boozes it seems
06:16:26  <mikolalysenko>I don't think they do coffee either...
06:16:32  <jesusabdullah>interestingly enough
06:16:38  <jesusabdullah>there are plenty of coffee places in Provo
06:16:46  <jesusabdullah>according to goog maps
06:17:04  <jesusabdullah>I still can't get over how cheap housing is
06:17:31  <jesusabdullah>like, only 1100/mo for a 4br + 3 bath + garage
06:17:47  <jesusabdullah>if I go with walmart instead, it's like 2200 for a studio condo
06:18:12  <jesusabdullah>actually, some of those 4brs go for way cheaper than that
06:18:35  <mikolalysenko>man. when I lived in houghton I paid about $80/month for rent
06:18:38  <jesusabdullah>Orem's the kinda place that screams, "for the love of God, have more children!"
06:18:43  <jesusabdullah>w8 wat
06:18:47  <mikolalysenko>granted that place was a shit hole
06:18:53  <mikolalysenko>and I shared it with like 12 other people
06:18:56  <jesusabdullah>I pay 650 for a hole-in-the-wall
06:19:00  <jesusabdullah>studio
06:19:05  <jesusabdullah>here in anchortown
06:19:52  <mikolalysenko>the one perk to that place was that our land lord ran a business on the side as an insurance agent, and so we didn't have to pay for heating on weekdays
06:20:25  <mikolalysenko>but living in houghton in the winter sucks, and the snow gets really bad
06:21:35  <jesusabdullah>where's houghton?
06:21:38  <jesusabdullah>is it near MIFFLIN?
06:21:43  <mikolalysenko>in northern michigan
06:22:18  <jesusabdullah>aha
06:22:31  <mikolalysenko>basically northern most part of upper peninsula
06:22:38  <mikolalysenko>it doesn't get that cold, but it snows constantly
06:22:47  <jesusabdullah>nice XD
06:22:48  <mikolalysenko>because of the lake and everything
06:23:02  <jesusabdullah>my parents complain loudly every time it snows
06:23:03  <jesusabdullah>and it's like
06:23:10  <jesusabdullah>"y u no retire 2 phoenix already"
06:23:10  <mikolalysenko>average snow fall is 300 inches per year
06:23:18  <mikolalysenko>not shitting you
06:23:28  <jesusabdullah>farnsworth: 300/12
06:23:28  <farnsworth>jesusabdullah: 25
06:23:35  <jesusabdullah>that's a lot of feet, my friend.
06:23:46  <mikolalysenko>yeah
06:24:04  <mikolalysenko>eventually you get these "snow corridors" where you just walk down them to get to class
06:24:15  <mikolalysenko>also all the houses have extra doors on the second story...
06:25:07  <mikolalysenko>probably not as bad as alaska though
06:25:26  <jesusabdullah>well
06:25:32  <jesusabdullah>the snowfall there is significantly greater
06:25:46  <jesusabdullah>I know snow corridors but not 2nd story doors
06:25:56  <jesusabdullah>that said, fbx gets cold as fuck
06:26:19  <jesusabdullah>You'll see -40F over at least 2 weeks, minimum
06:28:13  <mikolalysenko>yeah, that is pretty cold. I think it only ever got that bad the entire time I was there a couple of days total
06:29:00  <jesusabdullah>well
06:29:04  <jesusabdullah>at least you can say you've been there
06:29:32  <mikolalysenko>there are some nice parts too. I love it up there in the summer
06:29:35  <jesusabdullah>a lot of arctic regions are savannah-dry
06:29:50  <jesusabdullah>in terms of snowfall
06:29:55  <mikolalysenko>interesting
06:30:16  <jesusabdullah>cause when it's that cold it's hard to get a high enough evaporation rate to even get snow
06:30:16  <mikolalysenko>I always figured you'd get more snow further up north
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06:30:25  <mikolalysenko>yeah, makes sense
06:30:30  <jesusabdullah>yeah, exactly :)
06:30:49  <jesusabdullah>places in antarctica are at desert-levels of precip
06:31:07  <jesusabdullah>ak has a lot of swampland despite all that though
06:31:15  <jesusabdullah>er, marshland
06:31:26  <jesusabdullah>probably due to snowmelt and tundra
06:31:31  <jesusabdullah>sphagnum holds in the moisture
06:34:38  <mikolalysenko>I think the lakes are especially good at creating snow. There is this phenomenon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake-effect_snow
06:34:46  <jesusabdullah>yup
06:34:50  <jesusabdullah>I'm academically aware
06:35:04  <mikolalysenko>and houghton actually gets it worse than the rest of the up because it is stuck out on a peninsula on the peninsula
06:35:15  <mikolalysenko>so it is basically right in the middle of lake superior
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08:12:43  <dominictarr>tim_smart: latest npmd should be good now. I can install browserify in 3 seconds in --greedy (deduped mode)
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08:55:44  <substack>https://twitter.com/drawohara/status/351876115930943488
08:57:02  <jesusabdullah>substack: can I fork browserify.org's css/styling/etc for browserify-cdn y/n
08:57:34  <jesusabdullah>substack: also might be doing some voxeljs stuff sometime in the next few days :) already made a few pngs encoded with guns
08:58:13  <jesusabdullah>:(
08:58:20  <jesusabdullah>all by myseeeelllfffff.....
08:59:08  <substack>fork away
08:59:41  <jesusabdullah>cool
09:00:32  <jesusabdullah>tomorrow. :)
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15:53:29  <creationix>every time I see a streams question on the node list I want to respond with "We don't have that problem when using pull based streams", but then I stop because that is probably not helpful.
15:54:21  <mbalho>arent node 0.10 streams pull based?
15:56:50  <ednapiranha>mbalho: !
15:56:56  <mbalho>ednapiranha: YO
15:57:04  <ednapiranha>how was the conf of the node?!
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15:58:12  <mbalho>ednapiranha: ahhhh mazingggg
15:58:45  <ednapiranha>sweet
15:59:08  <isaacs>dominictarr: not really
15:59:23  <isaacs>dominictarr: i mean, those trees are just JS objects. i just write whatever i need to where i need it
15:59:26  <ednapiranha>mbalho: you made a markdown -> html module yeah?
15:59:39  <dominictarr>isaacs: that is what I have done, too
15:59:41  <isaacs>dominictarr: i don't have like a standalone abstraction just for that
15:59:43  <mbalho>ednapiranha: nope just html -> pretty html, npm install html
15:59:45  <isaacs>dominictarr: it'd be nice, i guess.
15:59:48  <ednapiranha>ahh ok
15:59:56  <dominictarr>but I'm wondering if it would be good that way
16:00:06  <ednapiranha>mbalho: i need to wean off of jekyll
16:00:24  <creationix>mbalho: yes, but there are also several other alternate interfaces. I think it confuses people having so many options
16:00:31  <dominictarr>so, isaacs, my aim is to make npmd install really fast
16:00:33  <creationix>(so of course I create a couple more options :P)
16:00:40  <mbalho>creationix: lol
16:00:47  <mbalho>ednapiranha: write a blog post after you figure it out!
16:00:52  <dominictarr>currently, I can install browserify in 3 seconds, vs npm in about 8 seconds
16:00:52  <ednapiranha>mbalho: omggg
16:00:55  <mbalho>ednapiranha: i havent done jekyll in like 4 years
16:01:01  <mbalho>ednapiranha: i forget it all
16:01:05  <ednapiranha>mbalho: generalkyll
16:01:07  <mbalho>ednapiranha: ask isaacs about how yaml is the worst thing ever
16:01:12  <ednapiranha>voted worst name ever 2013
16:01:13  <dominictarr>(of course, in europe or the antipodes it's slower)
16:01:17  <mbalho>ednapiranha: haha
16:01:20  <creationix>yaml makes me cry
16:01:27  <ednapiranha>pooml
16:01:30  <mbalho>ednapiranha: jekill
16:01:34  <dominictarr>but I want to make it more faster still….
16:01:49  <ednapiranha>mbalho: what a name.. 'static blog generator' -> 'killall'
16:02:14  <dominictarr>but to get more improvement, I'm gonna have to cut down on fs copies…
16:02:19  <ednapiranha>mbalho: i was sent something relating to a cat today.. you might be amused
16:02:24  <dominictarr>Am thinking about symlinks
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16:06:03  <defunctzombie>substack: for ploy, what do you do about multi server?
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16:36:16  <dlmanning>dominictarr: ping
16:36:22  <dominictarr>dlmanning: hi
16:36:27  <dlmanning>Hello
16:37:02  <dlmanning>You said you're not particularly interested in moving any of your stream modules to streams2, eh?
16:39:34  <dominictarr>yes
16:40:10  <dlmanning>word
16:41:19  <dlmanning>I'm rewritng a bunch of stream modules in streams2 as an exercise, and was just wondering what, if anything, I should do with the results
16:41:36  <dominictarr>publish them on npm, of course!
16:42:03  <dlmanning>Seems kinda lame to publish a duplicate of someone else's work using a different internal API
16:42:42  <dominictarr>then put a link in the readme
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16:42:55  <dominictarr>it's best to just publish everything
16:43:13  <dominictarr>so that ideas can complete in a free market place
16:44:04  <dlmanning>So you wouldn't be pissed if I published a module that did the same thing as yours using streams2?
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16:48:36  <dominictarr>dlmanning: not at all.
16:54:53  <dlmanning>=D
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16:58:21  <creationix>dlmanning: I publish things that are nearly identical to dominictarr's modules all the time
16:58:49  <creationix>not once has he gotten upset at me
17:01:01  <dlmanning>Maybe he's storing up his rage
17:02:22  <dominictarr>the important thing is that good software exists, not that I was the one who wrote it.
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17:03:32  <dominictarr>actually, I think that some one else rewriting your idea validates it… it must have been a pretty good wheel to deserve to be reinvented.
17:04:01  <mikolalysenko>or it was a template engine...
17:04:24  <dlmanning>or a database built on top of leveldb
17:05:21  <mikolalysenko>in general though I don't think there is much harm in duplicating stuff
17:05:49  <mikolalysenko>though it can be distracting for people who are learning things and have to step over all the broken old modules
17:06:07  <mikolalysenko>but perhaps that is a separate problem altogether
17:06:17  <mikolalysenko>(and also one that I have no idea how to solve really)
17:07:07  <mikolalysenko>I think though that where modules are most useful is in providing helpful readily implemented pieces of semantics
17:07:42  <mikolalysenko>changing the syntax/invocation rules can be argued to death, but once you have a working implementation of some concept it is typically just a matter of rigging up plumbing to get it to work
17:12:49  <Raynos>I actually agree with republishing modules
17:12:58  <Raynos>I tend to redo what creationix or dominictarr does by accident
17:13:09  <Raynos>although the best ones are concurrent!
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17:23:10  <mikolalysenko>no one copies my modules :(
17:23:13  <mikolalysenko>except that one time
17:23:32  <dlmanning>mikolalysenko: You want someone should release mdarray?
17:25:12  <mikolalysenko>well, I can't stop them
17:25:33  <mikolalysenko>but doing it would be a lot of work, and it would probably have compatibility issues
17:25:51  <mikolalysenko>however if there were ways to improve on ndarray fundamentally, then it would be a good thing to do
17:25:59  <dlmanning>Maybe a series... ndarray where n = 1, 2, 3, 4 etc...
17:26:14  <mikolalysenko>actually ndarray already generates optimized code for each n
17:26:18  <mikolalysenko>that is basically how it works
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17:26:36  <dlmanning>That's pretty cool
17:26:39  <mikolalysenko>relevant section: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/ndarray/blob/master/ndarray.js#L44
17:26:50  <mikolalysenko>it also allows you to use different datatypes, etc.
17:27:34  <dlmanning>mikolalysenko: I've actually been working on a module for tables of arbitrary objects
17:27:47  <mikolalysenko>you could probably use ndarray to do it actually
17:27:58  <mikolalysenko>though most of the modules assume that the underlying objects are primitive types
17:28:07  <mikolalysenko>the core stuff would work though
17:28:13  <dlmanning>Yeah, I looked at using ndarray
17:28:29  <mikolalysenko>you can also change the underlying data store to different stuff
17:28:40  <mikolalysenko>like run length encoded arrays, sparse arrays, etc.
17:28:50  <dlmanning>I got the impression it was only for primitive types
17:28:57  <dlmanning>And all the same types
17:29:03  <mikolalysenko>it is optimized for that, but you can do other stuff
17:29:15  <mikolalysenko>here is an example of a hash table built on ndarray: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/ndarray-hash/blob/master/ndhash.js#L1
17:29:26  <mikolalysenko>or actually a hash store for ndarray
17:29:52  <mikolalysenko>basically if you replace the data parameter in the ndarray with any object that has a get/set/length then it will just do the rest for you
17:30:15  <mikolalysenko>and you get stuff like constant time transpose/reverse/copying/etc.
17:30:34  <mikolalysenko>I've thought about making an ndarray-string that uses a string to store the data
17:30:45  <mikolalysenko>then you could make character arrays or whatever
17:30:45  <dlmanning>mikolalysenko: that stuff I've already implemented for regular 2d arrays
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17:31:15  <dlmanning>transpose, rotate
17:31:23  <mikolalysenko>yeah
17:31:32  <mikolalysenko>just changes the stride, that's it
17:31:37  <mikolalysenko>and maybe the shape/offset
17:32:12  <mikolalysenko>I bet cwise would work with non-primitive data types in the array
17:32:16  <dlmanning>What would ndarray get me if I weren't using primitive types of objects of a constant size?
17:32:23  <mikolalysenko>stuff like this: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/cwise
17:32:29  <mikolalysenko>it generates optimized loops over your arrays
17:32:38  <mikolalysenko>also you can do slicing, blitting, etc.
17:32:55  <mikolalysenko>for example, say you want to copy a block of stuff from your array
17:32:57  <mikolalysenko>you can do:
17:33:00  <defunctzombie>substack: https://github.com/shtylman/gitup
17:33:04  <defunctzombie>substack: my take an propagit
17:33:19  <mikolalysenko>require("ndarray-ops").assign(x.lo(10,10).hi(20,20), y)
17:33:23  <mikolalysenko>where y is a 20x20 array
17:33:31  <defunctzombie>substack: don't have the process monitoring aspects yet, but so far I like this.. not sure how I feel about it launching stuff via package.start yet
17:33:42  <defunctzombie>substack: I might allow a command line flag to allow you to run anything
17:33:48  <mikolalysenko>this will copy y into the 20x20 region starting at 10x10 in x
17:34:10  <mikolalysenko>you can also do things like reverse copy to.. for example, say you want to flip one of the axes:
17:34:27  <mikolalysenko>ops.assign(x.lo(10, 10).hi(20,20), y.step(-1, 1))
17:34:51  <dlmanning>Is that going to be faster than my nested for loop?
17:34:56  <mikolalysenko>probably
17:35:17  <mikolalysenko>because it visits the array in the correct order for the given stride
17:35:31  <mikolalysenko>here is a blog post on it: http://0fps.wordpress.com/2013/05/28/cache-oblivious-array-operations/
17:35:38  <mikolalysenko>and the current version of cwise is actually faster than that
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17:36:35  <dlmanning>This is what I'm doing now: https://github.com/dlmanning/rotisserie/blob/master/lib/transpose.js
17:37:03  <mikolalysenko>ok. ndarray/cwise will definitely be faster than that.
17:37:11  <dlmanning>:D
17:37:43  <mikolalysenko>conservatively, I'd guess at least 5x faster at least based on my comparisons to numeric.js
17:37:47  <mikolalysenko>which uses a similar approach
17:38:41  <mikolalysenko>also those rotations in ndarray are all constant time operations
17:38:46  <mikolalysenko>they don't use a loop or anything
17:39:02  <dlmanning>hmm
17:39:53  <mikolalysenko>for example, to rotate a 2d array 90 degrees you'd do:
17:40:02  <mikolalysenko>x.transpose(1,0).step(-1,1)
17:40:09  <dlmanning>How can a transposition on a 1000x1000 array be the same as a transposition on a 20x20 array?
17:40:16  <mikolalysenko>it only changes the view
17:40:22  <mikolalysenko>it doesn't touch the data
17:40:32  <mikolalysenko>ndarrays are just projections onto 1d data stores
17:40:49  <dlmanning><= mind = blown
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17:41:28  <dlmanning>But doesn't that view have to be dynamically regenerated when it's altered?
17:41:39  <mikolalysenko>it is a single fixed size object
17:41:55  <mikolalysenko>ndarrays are views, they don't copy the data store
17:42:21  <mikolalysenko>when you slice an array it generates a view. the view is a tiny object, with maybe 2*d+2 fields of data
17:42:37  <mikolalysenko>you have d numbers for the shape, d numbers for the stride one for the offset and one for the pointer to the data
17:42:50  <mikolalysenko>so a 2d view takes 6 words of memory or so
17:42:59  <dlmanning>Damn
17:43:08  <dlmanning>It's like I'm seeing a burning bush here
17:43:22  <mikolalysenko>you should try them out! they are pretty cool
17:43:33  <mikolalysenko>all of the real complexity though is in cwise
17:43:42  <mikolalysenko>which is the code that generates optimized loops over ndarrays
17:43:44  <dlmanning>Could you point me toward a resource for understanding this approach theoretically?
17:43:57  <mikolalysenko>I wrote some blog posts, they are linked on the ndarray github
17:44:00  <dlmanning>Like an algorithms book or whatever
17:44:05  <mikolalysenko>https://github.com/mikolalysenko/ndarray#ndarray
17:44:14  <mikolalysenko>don't have a book, but the idea is pretty simple
17:44:25  <dlmanning>So this is basically just your work?
17:44:29  <mikolalysenko>yeah
17:44:46  <dlmanning>Awesome, man
17:45:07  <mikolalysenko>I've also made a bunch of libraries for ndarrays based on this approach
17:45:17  <mikolalysenko>no numerical linear algebra stuff yet, but I'd like to get to that eventually
17:45:33  <mikolalysenko>here is a pretty incomplete directory of stuff you can do with them: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/ndarray-tutorial
17:45:46  <dlmanning>I'll read through your blog posts
17:46:26  <mikolalysenko>yeah. I've also got plans to someday make a proper map/reduce library for ndarrays
17:46:48  <mikolalysenko>cwise right now is basically a kind of dsl that is implemented using esprima
17:47:03  <mikolalysenko>but it is limited in that it only lets you do component-wise operations (hence the name)
17:47:20  <mikolalysenko>I think though that something which let you do general tensor operations/higher order map reduce stuff could be more useful
17:47:39  <mikolalysenko>then you could use it to generate things like matrix-multiply/vector product operations
17:47:44  <dlmanning>mikolalysenko: You need to start a SciNode conference
17:48:03  <mikolalysenko>haha, there would have to be more than one attendee to have a conference I think
17:48:09  <mikolalysenko>also all this stuff runs in the browser too!
17:48:18  <dlmanning>Or at least start speaking at some existing conferences
17:48:32  <mikolalysenko>travel budget right now is basically 0
17:48:46  <dlmanning>because grad school
17:48:48  <mikolalysenko>yeah
17:48:56  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: if you want speaking opportunities with free plan tickets + hotel i can make it happen
17:50:11  <mikolalysenko>mbalho: iiinteresting... depends on the venue I suppose, and timing
17:50:42  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: there are like 6 conferences that asked me to come speak this year but i dont think im gonna do any of em cause im a little burnt out
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17:52:12  <mikolalysenko>mbalho: which conferences?
17:52:15  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: js.everywhere() in SF, keeping it realtime in PDX, jsconf colombia in medellin, So Coded in hamburg, lxjs in lisbon
17:55:05  <mikolalysenko>yeah, I'd need to think it through a bit. but it is an enticing possibility
17:55:53  <mikolalysenko>I think though before I commit to anything I'd have to clear it with my advisor first
17:57:12  <mikolalysenko>thanks for the offer
17:57:28  <mbalho>yep i'll keep you informed about any exciting opportunities
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18:04:38  <dlmanning>mikolalysenko: Come to realtimeconf in PDX. Cause PDX is cool
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18:06:46  <mikolalysenko>dlmanning: looking at the dates, I think it may be a problem since I will probably be in sf that week
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20:54:46  <niftylettuce>in SF
20:56:07  <pkrumins>o/
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21:59:59  <tim_smart>dominictarr: 3 seconds is pretty good. I might give it a shot
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23:07:59  <timoxley>ok, suppose: readable.pipe(writable)
23:08:10  <timoxley>in what order should the 'end' events happen
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23:13:27  <timoxley>cc dominictarr
23:14:03  <dominictarr>timoxley: left to right
23:14:11  <mbalho>open oakland meeting in oakland tonight : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JxUS3aLrN1PyqiccmEkxlLE4kUdzAAzEPeq0qX_Yenc/edit
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23:18:04  <timoxley>dominictarr thanks
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23:31:55  <jesusabdullah>oh siiick, my code quiz is to implement a parser against infix notation
23:32:06  <jesusabdullah>I think I'm gonna cheat and use a javascript ast parser
23:32:16  <jesusabdullah>either that, or try the PEG.js thing
23:32:55  <substack>writing a simple parser from scratch is actually really easy
23:33:14  <substack>just push tokens onto a stack when you parse and pop them off to evaluate
23:33:36  <jesusabdullah>yeah, in this case probably
23:33:39  <jesusabdullah>split on spaces
23:33:54  <jesusabdullah>actually, not even that, split ints and non-ints
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23:44:57  <substack>split on /\b/
23:47:01  <substack>well except for multi-character operators
23:47:04  <substack>like ++
23:47:27  <substack>but you can re-join those in a stateful pass
23:47:51  <substack>juliangruber, dominictarr, Raynos: http://vimeo.com/68215606
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23:48:20  <substack>this is a really good vid if you want an itemized list of what needs to exist on npm as separate packages
23:48:38  <substack>with a writeup bringing all the pieces together
23:48:57  <substack>but I'm too busy today refactoring things
23:49:25  <Raynos>substack: Interesting!
23:50:36  <Raynos>so many modules
23:50:38  <Raynos>need to exist
23:51:02  <Raynos>substack: how do you deal with module searching. I have vague recollection of solving a problem a year ago and can't find the module I wrote to solve it
23:51:15  <Raynos>I'm not talking searching all modules, I'm just talking searching my OWN modules
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23:52:32  <substack>I don't really need to search my modules so much.
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23:56:54  <mbalho>Raynos: here is how i deal with module searching https://github.com/maxogden/art-of-node#modules
23:57:07  <mbalho>:P
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23:57:52  <Raynos>mbalho: my problem is that I dont use keywords and I give my own modules shitty names
23:58:04  <mbalho>Raynos: you should fix that!
23:58:05  <Raynos>I just have a really annoying deja vu feeling that whenever I write a function that I've already written it before
23:58:20  <Raynos>but writing it again is faster then searching :D