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00:01:05  <mbalho>w00t
00:01:10  <mbalho>it is totally the little things
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00:28:46  <isaacs>Raynos: http://git.io/GK84SA
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00:28:52  <isaacs>substack: ^
00:29:33  <substack>\o/
00:35:55  <guybrush>wow the eventemitterthing is sexy
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01:00:44  <Domenic_>dislike
01:00:56  <Domenic_>I dislike when you have EventEmitter.EventEmitter.EventEmitter.EventEmitter
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01:28:37  <guybrush>Domenic_: thats basically what you get with javascript :p
01:29:00  <guybrush>i do things like that a lot
01:29:38  <guybrush>thingsManager.things[0].thingsManager == thingsManager :D
01:29:46  <Domenic_>gross
01:29:48  <Domenic_>bad design
01:29:54  <guybrush>hm why?
01:29:55  <Domenic_>children should not reference parents
01:30:10  <Domenic_>they should not have that kind of knowledge or capability
01:30:24  <guybrush>because you dont like the style or why?
01:30:58  <Domenic_>basic CS principles... encapsulation, separation of concerns, responsibilities, scope of knowledge, ...
01:31:12  <guybrush>i mean does it have any bad implications other than some weird oop-design-pattern-thing?
01:31:34  <guybrush>haha i do it even in C :D
01:31:37  <Domenic_>makes it easier to reason about code when parents control their children instead of a bidirectional relationship
01:32:33  <Domenic_>the answer to the question "who can modify or use me?" is always "who can have a reference to me." establishing a clear and sparse hierarchy for such relationships, instead of a messy digraph, is imperative to being able to reason about how parts of your code will affect each other
01:32:36  <guybrush>hmmm it makes everything easier for me
01:32:56  <guybrush>i can access the parent via the child
01:33:02  <guybrush>that is huge benefit
01:33:29  <guybrush>i want to access the "thing which manages the thing"
01:34:34  <guybrush>sometimes i do even thingManager.things[0].managedBy[thingManagerA,thingManagerB]
01:35:37  <guybrush>(which is totally other topic than just exposing EventEmitter directly)
01:36:56  <guybrush>i dont understand why something like "scope of knowledge" even exists outside of security-stuff
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01:38:15  <guybrush>but maybe i did not hit anything where this matters
01:41:44  <guybrush>just because it fits here, im currently looking at https://github.com/hughsk/bindlestiff/blob/master/manager.js which does exactly what im doing
01:42:25  <guybrush>so it seems to be common pattern :p
01:42:37  <jjjohnny_>is there a way (using screen and irssi) to check back on all the times people called me out by name?
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01:45:01  <substack>jjjohnny_: /lastlog -window N jjjohnny_
01:45:20  <substack>for some window number N
01:46:47  <jjjohnny_>substack: neat! how far back does it go?
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01:50:52  <substack>however much your scrollback is set to
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01:51:56  <jjjohnny_>substack: what about permenantly closing some -x? i seem to have 4
01:53:11  <substack>you mean closing a window?
01:53:26  <substack>/win c in a window to close it
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02:06:32  <st_luke>this woman on the airplane next to me looks annoyed because whenever she coughs I put my face in my shirt cause i dont want to get sick
02:11:44  <jesusabdullah>lol
02:14:26  <st_luke>still coughing though
02:28:42  <mbalho>st_luke: woa where r u goin
02:29:04  <st_luke>mbalho: im flying back to the bay area
02:29:25  <mbalho>o
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02:29:41  <st_luke>had to take care of something in nyc and wanted to visit some friends upstate
02:30:03  <st_luke>now that its taken care of i dont ever have to go back to nyc ever again
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06:00:54  <owen1>jjjohnny_: btw, try mosh, tmux and weechat instead of ssh, screen and irssi
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06:29:54  <substack>mbalho: it seems that concat-stream gives undefined as the src when there aren't isn't any data instead of Buffer([])
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09:57:48  <rvagg>substack: use `bl`, it's teh awesome
09:58:13  <rvagg>streams2, nice and efficient with buffers
10:02:17  <rvagg>(just added a test case for the zero-write cause that's a good one)
10:06:53  <dominictarr>you can make a difference! https://github.com/cpettitt/dagre/issues/60
10:07:16  <dominictarr>rvagg: bl?
10:07:24  <rvagg>"buffer list"
10:07:52  <rvagg>it's a way to manage a list of buffers without concatenating them unnecessarily but it's also a duplex stream and supports the concat-stream style callback
10:08:06  <rvagg>http://npm.im/bl
10:08:27  <rvagg>It's been way more useful than I imagined it would be when I wrote it, I'm finding myself using it everywhere
10:12:45  <dominictarr>rvagg: but doesn't buffer already have the ability to represent multiple buffers as one?
10:14:14  <rvagg>no, it has the ability to represent smaller sections of a larger buffer but not the opposite
10:14:21  <rvagg>when you Buffer.concat() you do a bunch of copy()s
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10:14:49  <rvagg>buffer.slice() is nice cause you don't have to copy, but that's not helpful if you're gathering lots of buffers together
10:16:43  <dominictarr>rvagg: oh, it can't do multiple buffers?
10:17:05  <rvagg>I think concat-stream's problem in substack's case is that it doesn't know what type it should return if it hasn't received any data, it's able to do strings and other types so until it has one piece of data it doesn't know what the callback should get
10:17:48  <dominictarr>hmm. things like this are normally simplest if you just tell it if you want binary or not
10:18:45  <rvagg>I made bl initially cause I wanted to operate across collections of buffers without having to do concats all the time, so I could just maintain a list of buffers and shift them off the front as I didn't need them -- initially this was for leveljs to decode data read from sst & log files
10:18:55  <rvagg>add duplex streaming and an optional callback and it's magic
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10:20:35  <dominictarr>rvagg: this sounds really good.
10:20:51  <dominictarr>sounds like how you'd _want_ to do it
10:21:14  <dominictarr>basically, it makes Buffer more like String
10:23:11  <rvagg>yeah, I'd love to be able to add write() stuff to it too but don't have a need for it -- it'd be nice to copy the whole Buffer api just for completeness
10:24:12  <rvagg>this is my http client these days: hyperquest(url).pipe(bl(function (err, data) { ... }))
10:25:23  <dominictarr>substack: can testling test more than one branch? or is it only master?
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10:39:28  <dominictarr>substack: pkrumins trying to get mocha tests running on this http://ci.testling.com/dominictarr/dagre seems to be stuck?
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10:40:14  <Kessler>jesusabdullah: here ?
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10:50:07  <Kessler>substack: ping
11:05:02  <Kessler>anyone here worked with shoe a lot ?
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11:17:21  <dominictarr>Kessler: sure
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11:22:17  <Kessler>dominictarr: we have a single web page application using dnode to communicate with server and we have two issues, first, if the compiled script is not in the same web directory as the web page, nothing seem to work
11:22:47  <Kessler>and also if the network is disconnected the socket doesn't reconnect
11:23:01  <Kessler>and there is no error event that works
11:23:04  <dominictarr>use https://npm.im/reconnect
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11:23:31  <Kessler>sweet
11:23:41  <Kessler>what about the first issue, have you ran into that ?
11:23:50  <dominictarr>can you be more specific that "nothing seems to work"?
11:24:42  <Kessler>if I take a test page, put my dnode browserify compiled script in it and they are both in the same web folder i manage to invoke an rpc
11:24:52  <Kessler>otherwise it doesn't
11:25:05  <Kessler>for example if I put my compiled script in /js
11:25:11  <Kessler>and the web page in /html
11:25:48  <Kessler>I was also looking at nowjs as an alternative - maybe you know that library too ?
11:26:31  <dominictarr>it must be something you are doing
11:26:32  <Kessler>(and can recommend)
11:26:36  <dominictarr>can you show me code?
11:26:40  <Kessler>yes one sec
11:26:59  <dominictarr>I remember nowjs back a few years ago, but I havn't heard of any one using it recently.
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11:30:13  <Kessler>dominictarr: I'm extract the problem to a separate project, a few moments please ;)
11:30:17  <Kessler>*extracting
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11:48:01  <Kessler>dominictarr: ok so problem doesn't recreate on my machine only on my employee's, so never mind that :) thanks mate!
11:48:58  <dominictarr>Kessler: very often, in the process of refactoring out the problem into a test case, you discover what the problem was ;)
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11:49:57  <Kessler>dominictarr: aye :)
11:52:19  <dominictarr>collary: if someone is asking for help, tell them to do that, and you are likely not need to do anything else :)
11:55:05  <Kessler>yea dominic used that trick on me several times i must admit
11:55:22  <dominictarr>Kessler: pass it on
11:55:27  <Kessler>but this particular time - I was taking the word of my guy that he tested a distilled case
11:55:44  <Kessler>dominictarr: will do
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12:31:41  <dominictarr>pkrumins: I got another test that seems to be stuck http://ci.testling.com/dominictarr/bytewise
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15:18:34  <mikolalysenko>are there services out there that automatically build stuff for open source projects?
15:18:52  <mikolalysenko>specifically if I have a binary and I want to compile it for windows, are there things out there that do that for me?
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15:23:34  <stagas>mikolalysenko: that would be neat. I think someone was thinking of a service that took every npm package published and built all binaries for downloading but prob was some irc chat :P
15:24:08  <dominictarr>mikolalysenko: I know the azure guys are talking about that
15:24:42  <mikolalysenko>yeah. I keep thinking about how to do binary modules in node/npm, and one of the worst parts is having to build stuff for each system
15:25:03  <mikolalysenko>on linux it is manageable, though you still run into a lot of bs regarding how you install binary dependencies
15:25:14  <mikolalysenko>but on windows I have no idea how you would do this in any sane way
15:25:35  <mikolalysenko>what I would ideally like to do is having something where you just type npm install and it works
15:25:40  <dominictarr>yes. If only C++ had as lovely a module system as node
15:25:44  <mikolalysenko>yeah...
15:25:52  <mikolalysenko>so one crazy idea I had was to try to modularize emscripten
15:25:58  <dominictarr>hmm
15:26:04  <mikolalysenko>and make a js port of the whole llvm/autotools build chain
15:26:15  <dominictarr>haha, thats good
15:26:28  <mikolalysenko>I think it should be possible, but it would be a lot of work
15:26:51  <dominictarr>and make a static compression code for asm.js
15:27:02  <dominictarr>so you can avoid the many megabyte js problem
15:27:06  <mikolalysenko>yeah, well asm.js is kind of a mess right now...
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15:27:34  <mikolalysenko>yeah, though the bigger problem with asm.js is not executable sizes but really the whole memory sharing issue
15:27:47  <dominictarr>memory sharing?
15:27:57  <mikolalysenko>well, let me explain what I mean
15:28:10  <mikolalysenko>basically in asm.js stuff is optimized for having one gigantic heap
15:28:14  <dominictarr>oh, because each asm.js module allocates a large array
15:28:16  <dominictarr>right
15:28:18  <mikolalysenko>so you can't grow it at run time
15:28:18  <mikolalysenko>yeah
15:28:26  <mikolalysenko>and you can't share pointers across those heaps easily
15:28:41  <mikolalysenko>there are a couple of ways I can think of maybe solving this
15:28:53  <mikolalysenko>but the most direct solution would be to write a dynamic module loader for emscripten
15:29:11  <mikolalysenko>so then you could use multiple asm.js modules in the same project and they would all share the same memory
15:29:14  <dominictarr>yes, I've been thinking about how to make a node_modules like pattern work with C
15:29:19  <dominictarr>this would be similar
15:29:29  <AvianFlu>maciej had a thing for that
15:29:34  <AvianFlu>for injecting static deps
15:29:36  <mikolalysenko>yeah, so I think it is already kind of there at least on linux
15:29:37  <AvianFlu>you should find him
15:29:46  <mikolalysenko>you just use dylib
15:30:05  <mikolalysenko>but it should be possible to do the same in js
15:30:40  <mikolalysenko>basically there needs to be some way to do shared objects in emscripten
15:32:16  <mikolalysenko>also it would be awesome to have a pure js port of gcc/clang
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15:32:24  <mikolalysenko>so you could do npm install node-gcc
15:32:31  <mikolalysenko>and then build stuff for javascript using that
15:32:57  <mikolalysenko>also I said dylib was on linux but it is a mac thing...
15:33:29  <mikolalysenko>and I have been using os x too much lately...
15:34:50  <mikolalysenko>so for me the main reason I want native build tools is that I would like to be able to use LAPACK/ARPACK/etc. in nodejs
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20:22:30  <isaacs>mocha. why. srsly.
20:24:00  <dlmanning>isaacs: s'pretty
20:24:07  <isaacs>dlmanning: demerit
20:24:33  <chapel>isaacs: whats your problem?
20:27:40  <isaacs>chapel: i do console.error('foo') and it doesn't show up when i run the test.
20:28:03  <isaacs>chapel: and when i run the test script just with node, it fails because there's no 'describe' or 'it' globals
20:28:13  <chapel>:P
20:28:25  <chapel>why console.error vs console.log?
20:28:27  <isaacs>chapel: seriously, why do people like this so much? i don't understand it at all.
20:28:38  <chapel>isaacs: because it has a ton of shit
20:28:40  <isaacs>chapel: because debugging/error output goes to &2
20:28:52  <isaacs>chapel: you shoudln't send that kind of thing to stdout
20:29:11  <isaacs>stdout is for the desired output of your program. the 'return' value if you will.
20:29:12  <chapel>isaacs: in production sure, but if you are testing/debugging, I don't think it matters
20:29:24  <isaacs>chapel: TAP gets this 100% right, fwiw
20:29:26  <chapel>guess it depends on the app
20:29:41  <isaacs>chapel: stdout is for your test output. which assertions it ran, whether they passed or failed, etc.
20:29:58  <isaacs>chapel: stderr is yours
20:30:13  <isaacs>and the runner and lib are completely separated, so you can have things like tt and tape and so on
20:30:37  <chapel>isaacs: of all the test runners I've used, mocha is the easiest to just get working, though its a low barrier, I have no allegiance to it other than that
20:31:02  <isaacs>chapel: the fact that i can't just do "node test/foo.js" and get reasonable output is unforgiveable.
20:31:08  <isaacs>a test-runner war crime.
20:31:09  <guybrush>it has a njan-cat-reporter
20:31:35  <isaacs>mocha tests are not simple programs that do stuff and exit with 0 or non-0
20:32:40  <chapel>isaacs: really, mocha should be forked and abstracted, so it is just a runner, but the tests themselves should run on their own
20:34:38  <isaacs>chapel: that can't happen unless people stop calling describe() and it()
20:34:42  <isaacs>also, wtf is up with that?
20:34:56  <isaacs>it's so hard to figure out what tests are even doing.
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20:37:27  <chapel>isaacs: are you mad because people use it?
20:37:48  <chapel>there are a lot of bad projects out there, no reason to be upset about them
20:37:57  <isaacs>chapel: no, i'm mad because someone in particular uses it, on a module that i'm trying to write some patches for :)
20:38:00  <chapel>you've done what you can (writing your own test runner and such)
20:38:21  <chapel>isaacs: I see, guess that would be annoying
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22:22:00  <mbalho>lol http://webscripts.softpedia.com/script/Development-Scripts-js/Other-Libraries/Browserify-73561.html
22:23:12  <kumavis>its official
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22:26:18  <mint_xian>http://s1.softpedia-static.com/base_img/softpedia_logo4a.gif
22:26:23  <mint_xian>Updated one minute ago.
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22:48:57  <dominictarr>isaacs readable streams still emit 'end' event, right?
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22:49:56  <dominictarr>this.push(null); then emits 'readable', then pipe method calls src.read(), which emits 'end', which calls dest.end()
22:50:12  <juliangruber>substack: when inside a readable stream's _read method, do you know how I can start writing data of another stream?
22:51:03  <juliangruber>like ._read = function (n) { /* ... */ return this.push(someOtherStream._read(n)) }
22:51:30  <juliangruber>put I shouldn't call ._read myself
22:51:34  <juliangruber>^ dominictarr isaacs
22:51:54  <juliangruber>should I rather use a transform stream?
22:52:13  <juliangruber>the stream I want to create is basically a readable, but sometimes needs to forward other streams' data
22:56:26  <dominictarr>you want to have like a switching thing?
22:56:44  <dominictarr>what sort of data?
22:58:36  <substack>juliangruber: otherStream.on('readable', function () { var buf = otherStream.read(); if (buf) stream.push(buf); else {/* ended */} })
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23:00:26  <juliangruber>substack: trying out
23:01:11  <substack>juliangruber: oh also you should probably use a writable or transform stream instead of implementing a read stream
23:01:19  <substack>then call next() when buf === null
23:01:23  <substack>much easier
23:03:43  <dominictarr>substack: when did you change you mind about streams2?
23:04:34  <juliangruber>substack: ok, will do that instead
23:05:00  <substack>dominictarr: I still think you should only use them when you want strict control over backpressure
23:05:20  <dominictarr>okay, sure
23:05:45  <juliangruber>substack: my stream needs to be read initially, then start forwarding other streams. how do I do that with a transform stream?
23:06:07  <juliangruber>how does a transform stream start pushing data itself?
23:06:15  <substack>juliangruber: stream.push()
23:06:45  <juliangruber>doesn't it behave more like a push stream then?
23:07:09  <substack>.push() is how you push data
23:07:15  <substack>for all streams
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23:57:21  <Raynos>isaacs: people like mocha because no one teaches people to use a real testing framework.
23:58:45  <Raynos>so few people value the ability to do `node ./test/test-case.js` and have it just work.