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09:55:49  <dominictarr>rvagg: coffee?
09:56:18  <rvagg>dominictarr: yeah, I need to relocate, been sitting at the breakfast table for ~3.5h or so
09:56:34  <dominictarr>at your hotel?
09:56:43  <rvagg>yeah
09:58:05  <rvagg>dominictarr: where shal we go?
09:59:09  <dominictarr>rvagg: same place as yesterday?
09:59:21  <rvagg>sure, meet you there
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10:32:29  <substack>dominictarr: http://parroit.github.io/bpm/
10:35:19  <rvagg>https://github.com/bpm
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13:06:39  <Raynos>I'm on european soil again
13:06:45  <Raynos>soon in dublin (waiting in london)
13:24:43  <mbalho>Raynos: w00t
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14:01:03  <Raynos>:)
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16:13:14  <mbalho>wtf is with all the fud today
16:14:41  <substack>fud?
16:15:55  <mbalho>fear, uncertainty and doubt
16:16:13  <mbalho>see tomdale on twitter for a sweeping generalizations
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16:45:58  <mbalho>dominictarr: new modules that may be relevant to your interest https://npmjs.org/package/byte-stream https://npmjs.org/package/binary-split
16:46:55  <mbalho>dominictarr: also i think im gonna use tslide for my nodeconf talk, do you have any ideas on how to center justify text?
16:47:53  <dominictarr>mbalho: nice.
16:48:13  <dominictarr>mbalho: there is no automatic way
16:48:22  <mbalho>kk just checkin
16:48:36  <dominictarr>I wrote it in 2 hours before I gave a talk once
16:48:45  <mbalho>yea i saw that, sounds perfect
16:48:54  <mbalho>i can just limit the line width myself
16:51:48  <dominictarr>yeah, you need to do that for code to look good anyway
16:52:13  <dominictarr>mbalho: I've just been thinking it might be better to split on -----------------------------------------
16:52:17  <dominictarr>instead of #
16:52:26  <dominictarr>so you don't have to have a # on every slide
16:52:59  <chapel>mbalho dominictarr http://jdan.github.io/cleaver/
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16:53:09  <chapel>fyi
16:53:17  <chapel>it splits on --
16:53:26  <mbalho>chapel: i wanted terminal based if possible
16:53:49  <chapel>mbalho: yeah, just showing since it was related to dominictarr split comment
16:53:52  <dominictarr>oh, can support that
16:53:56  <mbalho>oh gotcha
16:54:08  <dominictarr>is -- valid markdown?
16:54:18  <dominictarr><hdiv> ?
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16:54:41  <mbalho>hmm not sure
16:54:51  <rvagg>dominictarr: where are you guys at now?
16:55:16  <dominictarr>rvagg: hey, still at my place
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16:55:33  <dominictarr>sorry about before, my phone turned itself off, but I thought it was on
16:55:43  <dominictarr>blame ffos
16:55:54  <rvagg>no probs, was good actually cause I really needed that sleep
16:56:40  <rvagg>juliangruber's coming down here tonight some time apparently, says Cian
16:56:51  <dominictarr>oh great
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17:10:34  <chrisdickinson>mbalho: fwiw, your responses (and nexxy's, and polotek's, and shama's) have all been spot-on.
17:11:03  <rvagg>STEP AWAY FROM THE TROLLS
17:11:03  <LOUDBOT>I'M OPEN TO AN ENVELOPE UNDER THE TABLE IYKWIMAITYD
17:11:24  <mbalho>im not sure if they are trolls or just only aware of node as a web framework thing
17:12:26  <chrisdickinson>yeah, i feel like they're projecting their conceptions about web frameworks (mostly from the rails world) onto node and express
17:12:50  <chrisdickinson>(which I've been super guilty of in the past)
17:14:46  <chrisdickinson>anyway, my takeaway is that we need to make security disclosure a no-brainer -- maybe bake it into npm.im/ somehow? or npm itself?
17:15:05  <mbalho>how about a nodei.co style badge
17:15:16  <mbalho>i'll recommend that to adam baldwin tomorrow
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17:17:24  <chrisdickinson>i'd like `npm report package` -- that would ask you questions about your bug, then send a signed email to the maintainer
17:17:51  <mbalho>oh nice
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17:40:57  <mikolalysenko>hmm
17:41:18  <mikolalysenko>it is unfortunate that flaws in preeminent frameworks like express tend to reflect badly on node.js as a whole
17:41:39  <mikolalysenko>even though it really isn't representative of the best or most current way to do things
17:41:56  <mbalho>agreed
17:42:09  <mikolalysenko>speaking of this article in particular: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1lwj0n/do_not_use_bodyparser_with_expressjs/
17:42:15  <rvagg>it's unfortunate that some of the most relied upon code is maintained by people who are unable to delegate and open up their repos to capable co-maintainers
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17:42:39  <mikolalysenko>well, I think that it is better to view express in a historical context
17:42:52  <mikolalysenko>it was arguably the first comprehensive attempt at a web framework in node.js
17:43:00  <mikolalysenko>and so it has a huge first mover advantage
17:43:14  <mikolalysenko>but it isn't really the best way to do things...
17:43:48  <shama>Anyone else remember that big vulnerability with github a year or so back because of rails? I wish I could remember how the node community reacted to that then.
17:44:12  <mikolalysenko>well, there was the whole yaml vulnerability that hit a ton of sites
17:44:21  <mikolalysenko>and that was pretty embarrassing
17:44:46  <mbalho>isaacs was telling once about trying to implement a yaml parser and how crazy it was
17:45:05  <mbalho>i dont remember the specifics but i guess its a little too smart for its own good
17:45:24  <mikolalysenko>yeah, I am not a huge fan of yaml
17:45:34  <mikolalysenko>I prefer serialization to be as dumb as possible
17:45:44  <mikolalysenko>but no dumber
17:46:00  <mbalho>shama: nobody said 'dont use ruby' after that, they said 'dont use rails'. I agree with 'dont use express' if you are making the decision based on trust about security vulnerabilities. hopefully the project improves because of this
17:46:37  <mikolalysenko>I think the bigger problem with express is that it tends to do a bunch of stuff you don't need to make the getting started situation easier
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17:46:53  <mikolalysenko>and this has a lot of bad performance (and as we are now seeing) security implications down the road
17:46:55  <shama>found it: https://github.com/rails/rails/issues/5228#issuecomment-4300754
17:47:39  <shama>and a post from wycats: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3664334
17:48:07  <shama>"Not all security vulnerabilities can be protected automatically by a web framework. In many cases, frameworks provide features that developers can use themselves to secure their applications."
17:50:29  <mikolalysenko>it is in someway a bit frustrating that many of the articles on node.js pick up on the callbacks/async io aspect of node, but ignore the larger and arguably more important concept of small modular programming
17:51:23  <mikolalysenko>bah, that was a grammatical trainwreck of a sentence. but I think it communicates the point I wanted to make
17:51:26  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: i was discussing that very thing today! and especially trying to come up with ways of positioning the concept to those who arent familiar
17:52:34  <mikolalysenko>mbalho: yeah. I mean both aspects are important, but in terms of adjusting your development practice it is the modules that require much more thought
17:52:53  <vladikoff>require('thought') ?
17:52:54  <vladikoff>BOOM
17:53:06  <mikolalysenko>haha
17:53:14  <mbalho>lol
17:53:17  <mikolalysenko>and frameworks like express kind of undermine this
17:53:35  <mbalho>express is like high fructose corn syrup
17:53:38  <mikolalysenko>because they encourage you to look to express to find solutions to whatever task you are trying to do
17:53:42  <mbalho>ok i admit i havent thought that metaphor through all the way but i stand by ie
17:53:43  <mbalho>it*
17:55:02  <mikolalysenko>though I am being a bit too had on express here
17:55:26  <mikolalysenko>I think with express it is important to understand the historical context in which it was created, and how different node.js looked at that time
17:56:25  <mikolalysenko>since at that point in history, I don't think the small module approach was widely appreciated or understood and so it made sense to try using a classical framework oriented approach
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18:46:53  <Raynos>I just arrived at my hotel
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19:22:50  <chrisdickinson>mbalho: i actually have to give a talk to all of engineering at UA about the small module approach
19:23:02  <chrisdickinson>will hopefully be blogging / posting slides afterward
19:23:23  <chrisdickinson>we've had a lot of success with it; especially as regards getting newer JS developers up to speed quickly and safely
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19:28:14  <nexxy>^-^
19:29:48  <jesusabdullah>I got a new scanner yesterday, gave it a test run last night http://imgur.com/vQsS4zx
19:29:52  <jesusabdullah>I think it came out pretty good
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19:33:59  <isaacs>mbalho: yaml is fucking crazy
19:34:04  <isaacs>mbalho: yamlish is less insane.
19:34:12  <isaacs>mbalho: yaml has more types than javascript.
19:35:24  <isaacs>mbalho: and the spec dictates that "ordered associative lists" MUST be implemented as [{<key>:<value>},{<key2>:<value>},...] in languages that don't guarantee ordering of associative sets.
19:35:29  <AvianFlu_>MORE TYPES THAN JAVASCRIPT!?
19:35:30  <LOUDBOT>YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF SWEATER-WEARING MANIACS
19:35:34  <isaacs>AvianFlu_: yes
19:35:43  <isaacs>AvianFlu_: not even useful types like "point", either!
19:35:46  <isaacs>like whole new concepts!
19:35:47  <AvianFlu_>honestly I just thought loudbot just really needed that one in his DB
19:35:51  <AvianFlu_>but yeah, that shit cray
19:36:10  <isaacs>ok, gotta get my passport inspected, and then watch cartoons from my bed in the clouds!
19:36:17  * isaacs&
19:36:17  <LOUDBOT>NOT THE BOSS OF DONGTOWN
19:36:24  * isaacsis, though
19:36:31  <AvianFlu_>WELL PHEW
19:36:31  <LOUDBOT>WHO'S THERE, I SAY WHO'S THERE
19:36:57  <jesusabdullah>that's why I use json
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20:00:14  <dominictarr>LOUDBOT, ENTERTAIN ME!
20:00:15  <LOUDBOT>dominictarr: DIPLOMATIC SHARK'S ANGER IS BARELY CONCEALED
20:00:25  <dominictarr>TRY AGAIN
20:00:26  <LOUDBOT>IF YOUR MIDDLE NAME WAS HOOHAH, YOU'D BE EMBARRASSED TOO :'(
20:00:44  <dominictarr>YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT
20:00:44  <LOUDBOT>LEARNINGS ARE VERY GOOD FOR YOU.
20:00:54  <dominictarr>YAWN
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20:01:42  <dominictarr>I THINK I BROKE LOUDBOT
20:01:42  <LOUDBOT>PC LOAD LETTER MEANS TO LOAD LETTER SIZED PAPER IN THE PAPER CARTRIDGE
20:02:01  <dominictarr>NEVERMIND
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20:27:58  <rvagg>dominictarr: ping
20:28:10  <dominictarr>rvagg: houdy
20:28:23  <rvagg>dominictarr: julian's going to be here in 30 mins or so, do you guys want to meet at the pub for a drink? he wants food too
20:28:39  <dominictarr>substack is fast asleep
20:28:51  <rvagg>of course, cause he was up at 5!
20:29:24  <rvagg>perhaps we'll get pizza and beer/whatever and bring it to your place?
20:29:34  <rvagg>have you guys eaten? do you want us to pick up food for you too?
20:29:42  <dominictarr>I made some chilli
20:29:54  <dominictarr>substack is sleeping, don't want to wake him
20:30:04  <dominictarr>do you know where julian is staying?
20:30:23  <rvagg>here at the majestic
20:32:29  <dominictarr>aha, shall we meet at the vic? then if substack wakes he'll know where to come meet us
20:32:47  <rvagg>yep, lets do that, will they still serve food of some kind for julian?
20:35:04  <dominictarr>They probably do wedges or something
20:35:17  <dominictarr>plus it's party night, so there is probably something open
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20:39:44  <rvagg>dominictarr: ok, I'll sms you when we head out, keep your phone on
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20:39:56  <dominictarr>cool
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22:10:13  <defunctzombie>substack: you should check out component/reactive, I think you will find some interesting ideas yet still simple
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23:50:02  <rvagg>juliangruber, dominictarr: https://medium.com/code-adventures/c819768a175f
23:52:18  <dominictarr>very good!
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