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04:56:28  <dominictarr>substack: ping?
05:00:51  <timoxley>anyone got any suggestions for service availability monitoring? nagios seems terrible, looking for node alternatives perhaps.
05:00:57  <timoxley>suggestions?
05:14:39  <dominictarr>timoxley: a thing that tells you when you app is down?
05:15:05  <timoxley>dominictarr: and tells you if your rams are low etc
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05:22:27  <dominictarr>timoxley: you can query free ram from node
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05:23:34  <timoxley>yeah I'm thinking it's pretty trivial to just write my own
05:24:09  <timoxley>wondering if there's some hidden complexity I'm not seeing which deters people
05:24:20  <substack>dominictarr: pong
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05:24:54  <dominictarr>substack: hey, when you went to china, did you have a tourist visa?
05:27:20  <timoxley>dominictarr: I went a few months back, only needed tourist visa.
05:27:48  <dominictarr>did you have to show a itenary/hotels for your entire trip?
05:27:56  <dominictarr>or on arrival?
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05:29:29  <timoxley>dominictarr: good question, um, there was a whole bunch of documentation required but for a few extra dollars my travel agent just filled it out for me
05:30:00  <timoxley>when are you travelling?
05:30:15  <dominictarr>right, november.
05:30:49  <timoxley>dominictarr: I'm going to be there around october 26 ish
05:31:04  <dominictarr>china is a big place!
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05:31:09  <timoxley>yes it is.
05:31:17  <dominictarr>I'll be in beijing
05:31:20  <timoxley>dominictarr: yeah we just found a 'chinese' travel agent who knew all the things
05:31:39  <defunctzombie>timoxley: isn't new relic the service that does that?
05:31:47  <dominictarr>was this from singapore?
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05:32:14  <timoxley>dominictarr: yeah, so it's probably a bit easier from here because nearly everyone is chinese
05:32:43  <timoxley>defunctzombie: yeah there's a few hosted options though they are not cheap
05:32:57  <dominictarr>right - hmm, okay, thanks
05:33:09  <timoxley>dominictarr: but I'm sure such things exist elsewhere.
05:33:10  <timoxley>np
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05:36:49  <dominictarr>timoxley: thanks, I know substack has done this too
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07:01:53  <jcrugzz>timoxley: checkout https://github.com/nodejitsu/godot and https://github.com/opsmezzo/forza. let me know if you have questions :)
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15:00:42  <ralphtheninja>sup?
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16:30:25  <thlorenz>substack: ping
16:30:48  <thlorenz>substack: it's an up and down with browser-builtins ;) https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/pull/493
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16:39:00  <jesusabdullah>ugh today I am not on top of it
16:39:04  <jesusabdullah>(most days honestly)
16:39:20  <jesusabdullah>(but I can still dream of starting the days with my arteries shakin' right?)
16:40:01  <substack>thlorenz_zz: eek
16:40:29  <Maciek416>jesusabdullah: explain reference to arterial shaking
16:40:37  <Maciek416>wow I sound like a robot
16:40:40  <substack>thlorenz_zz: did you raise an issue with browser-builtins?
16:42:25  <jesusabdullah>Maciek416: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr9NmG68vPQ first verse
16:43:14  <substack>thlorenz_zz: do you have some example browser multilevel code I can poke at?
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17:00:19  <thlorenz>substack: 1. not yet - will do
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17:00:50  <thlorenz>substack: 2. https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/pull/493
17:00:54  <thlorenz>soryy
17:01:12  <thlorenz>substack: https://github.com/thlorenz/level-json-edit/tree/master/example
17:01:26  <thlorenz>do `node build` in examples folder
17:01:29  <thlorenz>after npm i
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17:01:45  <thlorenz>now it works (using my fork) once you replace with published browserify it breaks
17:01:56  <thlorenz>just when it requires multilevel
17:08:28  <thlorenz>substack: repro steps: https://github.com/alexgorbatchev/node-browser-builtins/issues/30#issuecomment-24935876
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17:29:56  <substack>thlorenz: Error: Cannot find module 'jsoneditor'
17:30:22  <thlorenz>substack: shoot - was in the middle of this
17:30:42  <thlorenz>all you have to do is create a main.js with a require('multilevel') in it
17:30:48  <thlorenz>then browserify that
17:31:11  <thlorenz>substack: I create an isolated test case if you want
17:31:56  <substack>it looks like index.js isn't checked into git?
17:32:13  <thlorenz>hold on a sec - making isolated test case
17:34:00  <substack>ok I've got the test case duplicated now
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17:34:27  <thlorenz>cool - I'm having a hard time writing a more isolated case - seems not to be happening
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17:39:01  <thlorenz>substack: ah, I fixed that jsoneditor thing but he didn't publish yet
17:39:08  <thlorenz>he was missing a main field
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17:44:21  <thlorenz>substack: this is more isolated: https://github.com/alexgorbatchev/node-browser-builtins/issues/30#issuecomment-24938481
17:50:10  <substack>this seems to be a bug in the hashing code
17:51:54  <thlorenz>substack: inside browser-builtins or where?
17:52:07  <thlorenz>cause when I downgraded those everything worked again
17:53:31  <substack>thlorenz: it's in browserify itself
17:53:50  <substack>this bug is only manifesting in browser-builtins, the bug is not in browser-builtins itself
17:53:51  <thlorenz>ah, but how does downgrading browser-builtins fix it then ?
17:53:56  <thlorenz>ah :)
17:54:02  <substack>the require graph is slightly difference
17:54:06  <substack>*different
17:54:17  <thlorenz>interesting - I'll close my PR then
17:54:19  <substack>it's related to cycles, which the old version didn't have
17:54:38  <thlorenz>it's usually cycles that make stacks overflow ;)
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17:55:43  <substack>thlorenz: try now with 2.32.3
17:56:11  <defunctzombie>why doesn't that module have testling tests?
17:56:22  <defunctzombie>substack: also, any more progress on that "externals" pull request?
17:56:33  <thlorenz>substack: did you publish .3?
17:56:41  <thlorenz>still pulling down .2
17:57:13  <thlorenz>substack: ok got it, and works !!
17:57:15  <thlorenz>thanks
17:59:46  <substack>defunctzombie: I thought I merged that?
18:00:14  <jesusabdullah>I'm so dumb today ;_;
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18:07:29  <defunctzombie>substack: I wrote some docs for it
18:08:45  <defunctzombie>substack: https://github.com/shtylman/node-browserify/tree/external-docs
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18:11:29  <defunctzombie>and yes, I see that you did merge the actual code :)
18:11:40  <defunctzombie>I thought that wasn't gonna happen until I added the docs
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18:31:36  <defunctzombie>substack: what's wrong with instanceof checks?
18:32:18  <johnkpaul>Is there a way that I can run a vm.runInContext with a specific directory with a node modules directory available?
18:33:05  <substack>defunctzombie: if you have multiple versions of a module in the same project instanceof breaks
18:33:52  <substack>thlorenz: browser-builtins has some other bugs
18:34:00  <thlorenz>substack: :(
18:34:05  <defunctzombie>browser-builtins needs some testling love
18:34:16  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: are you trying to make require work in your sandbox?
18:34:24  <thlorenz>if yes, have a look at require-like
18:34:26  <johnkpaul>thlorenz: yes
18:34:48  <johnkpaul>ok cool
18:35:01  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: https://github.com/thlorenz/scriptie-talkie/blob/master/lib/create-sandbox.js
18:35:20  <substack>browser-builtins is pretty crappy
18:35:28  <substack>I don't like it being the gatekeeper for all of these modules
18:35:38  <substack>the modules should have their own independent governance
18:36:47  <thlorenz>substack: thought about this on my way to lunch
18:37:38  <thlorenz>substack: although it may seem crazy each browser module should be in its own package
18:38:04  <thlorenz>they may be empty now, but who knows what crazy implementations people come up with
18:38:17  <thlorenz>and you wanna be able to upgrade them seperately
18:38:24  <substack>yes
18:38:44  <substack>do you want to start doing that?
18:39:05  <thlorenz>busy until lxjs, but during/afterwards I could
18:39:08  <substack>ok
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18:39:32  <thlorenz>I'd start by just taking what's currently in browser-builtins as separate modules and go from there
18:40:12  <johnkpaul>thlorenz: hmm, I don't quite see what I should be getting from that example
18:40:22  <johnkpaul>I see that I can use require-like to change the base path that require() looks from
18:40:28  <johnkpaul>but how do I get that ro run in a vm
18:40:28  <substack>Raynos: https://github.com/Raynos/console-browserify/pull/1
18:40:37  <substack>this was also breaking the browserify tests
18:42:15  <Raynos>substack: that shouldnt be causing any problems
18:42:16  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: well this is creating a sandbox for a vm with require overridden
18:42:24  <Raynos>It has a if check for global above it
18:42:25  <thlorenz>not sure how much applies to your case
18:42:31  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: brb
18:42:40  <substack>Raynos: look again
18:42:45  <substack>the `if` checks 2 things
18:43:01  <Raynos>substack: when is `global.console` falsey in node ?
18:43:22  <substack>Raynos: global isn't defined if you vm.runInNewConsole() some code
18:43:29  <Raynos>oh
18:43:31  <Raynos>FFFFFFFFff---
18:43:33  <Raynos>ok my bad
18:43:35  <substack>anyways
18:43:44  <substack>don't assign functionality onto globals
18:43:46  <substack>that's always bad
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18:43:53  <Raynos>yes / no
18:44:07  <substack>you loaded a module and SURPRISE now you have a `console` on the window object
18:44:14  <substack>that you didn't ask for
18:44:18  <Raynos>require("console") has the intentional side effect of putting a `console` object on window in IE8
18:44:28  <substack>that's bad
18:44:30  <substack>don't do that
18:44:30  <Raynos>now yes I agree that's bad
18:44:38  <Raynos>Yeah fuck it's bad i'll remove it
18:45:34  <substack>ok then we need to get browser-builtins to bump its version
18:46:24  <Raynos>substack: https://github.com/alexgorbatchev/node-browser-builtins/pull/31
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18:46:58  <substack>ok there is a circular loading problem where util depends on assert depends on util
18:47:03  <substack>and code is being immediately executed
18:47:21  <substack>Raynos: thanks!
18:47:25  <Raynos>that might be because of the added console
18:47:54  <substack>added?
18:48:10  <substack>why is console getting added to bundles?
18:48:15  <substack>please get rid of that
18:50:55  <substack>found it: https://github.com/alexgorbatchev/node-browser-builtins/commit/8c22e187adcbfe3321ab6e6cc4de42c9e63e753f#commitcomment-4158334
18:51:16  <Raynos>yeah there
18:51:21  <Raynos>not sure what the correct solution is
18:51:26  <Raynos>other then assume console exists globally
18:52:34  <substack>I'm going to get this working and then going to peg browser-builtins
18:52:37  <substack>can't trust this module
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18:53:19  <Raynos>is the solution to add the browserify test suite to browser builtins so it never breaks up stream
18:53:27  <Raynos>or to break out browser builtins into smaller things
18:53:51  <substack>break it out into smaller things
19:00:26  <thlorenz>Raynos: substack: give me until lxjs and we'll have a gzillion modules and these problems should be easier to manage/isolate
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19:02:21  <defunctzombie>substack: I have been against browser-builtins from the start
19:02:32  <defunctzombie>substack: I think browserify should just use the modules directly
19:02:54  <substack>defunctzombie: we can do that once we've got them all properly split out
19:02:57  <defunctzombie>there is no need to have one module where they all live and are depended on
19:03:07  <substack>I agree.
19:03:17  <defunctzombie>coo
19:04:02  <substack>we can avoid a lot of dead code too by exporting elements of the core shims explicitly
19:04:40  <substack>assert-browserify can do require('util-browserify/inherits.js')
19:04:48  <substack>instead of pulling in the whole of util
19:04:58  <substack>for a 9-line function
19:05:20  <substack>because minifiers are not very good at dead code removal for commonjs yet
19:05:27  <guybrush>but than it wouldnt be the same as in node right?
19:06:03  <substack>guybrush: yes it would, this would just be for internal deps
19:06:13  <guybrush>ohh i misunderstood
19:06:27  <substack>so you can still do require('util') and get all of util
19:06:34  <substack>but assert depends on util for instance
19:06:46  <substack>and other parts only use util.inherits()
19:06:53  <substack>but they get all the code stuffed into the bundle
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19:09:30  <substack>all passing again, hooray! https://travis-ci.org/substack/node-browserify
19:10:28  <substack>great work everyone! \o Raynos thlorenz
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19:11:40  <defunctzombie>yes
19:11:47  <thlorenz>substack: yay!
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20:33:53  <creationix>dominictarr, so what's your thought on the new stream format?
20:34:10  <creationix>is it enough better to rewrite all our modules to use it?
20:34:31  <dominictarr>I'm warming to it
20:34:40  <dominictarr>but I don't know about rewriting everything
20:34:53  <dominictarr>I think you have to start with a polyfil layer
20:35:08  <dominictarr>Although, I do admire your heroic drive to rewrite
20:36:30  <creationix>I'm about to release a public API for js-git. I'd like to have the stream format stable
20:36:30  <creationix>but if we don't know yet, I'll stick with simple-streams for now
20:36:32  <creationix>I just dislike breaking APIs once published
20:36:32  <creationix>also js-git has a lot less streams than it used to
20:36:36  <creationix>since I now buffer object bodies
20:36:44  <creationix>that was insanity (streaming bodies)
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20:43:03  <creationix>dominictarr, one thing I want to allow in the new spec is allow streams to emit more than one data event per pull
20:43:24  <creationix>it's still valid back-pressure if you emit 5 events at a time instead of 1
20:43:29  <creationix>as long as you wait till the next pull to emit more
20:44:36  <creationix>it just means consumers can't trust that only one emit will happen per one pull
20:46:43  <creationix>if a consumer really wanted a gurantee that pull and data were 1:1, they could easily add this with an extra piece in the chain
20:46:44  <Raynos>creationix: whats the new format?
20:46:54  <creationix>Raynos, https://gist.github.com/creationix/6587060
20:47:23  <creationix>I'm about to head out and run some errands. I might be on later in a few hours.
20:47:46  * asciimopart
20:48:20  <Raynos>so the new stream has a pull() method
20:48:25  <Raynos>and it then calls output.ondata with stuff
20:48:56  <creationix>Raynos, right
20:49:04  <dominictarr>creationix: that isn't simple
20:49:06  <Raynos>this feels more complex then simple streams
20:49:23  <creationix>Raynos, it is, but a lot more powerful too
20:49:25  <dominictarr>1:1 is what makes it easy to reason about
20:49:36  <Raynos>creationix: i dont understand how its more powerful
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20:49:46  <creationix>dominictarr, makes it easier to consume, but harder to produce
20:50:00  <creationix>a lot of production code gets a lot simpler if you allow more than one output
20:50:18  <creationix>and most consumers don't care if there are many
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20:50:25  <Raynos>creationix: `Also I can report errors right away without having to queue them` I like this very much
20:50:37  <creationix>Raynos, different channels for data, end, and error
20:50:44  <creationix>thus "undefined" can be a value
20:50:56  * toddself_changed nick to toddself
20:51:14  <creationix>though dominictarr's pull-streams also do that
20:51:46  <dominictarr>I'm very busy right now, I've gotta get my chinese visa sorted for jing-js
20:52:57  <creationix>dominictarr, good luck
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21:41:18  <defunctzombie>substack: http://ci.testling.com/shtylman/xrequest any reason tests would be stuck?
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22:15:07  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: bullshit health insurance things like that are why I've left certain companies
22:15:25  <st_luke>if you dont care about giving your workers reasonable health insurance then you dont deserve workers who give a shit
22:16:09  <jesusabdullah>Is there a way to fight this?
22:16:25  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: sometimes your doctor can help if they are a bit crafty
22:16:25  <jesusabdullah>or am I just fucked until AFHCA kicks in?
22:16:29  <jesusabdullah>mmhmm
22:16:44  <jesusabdullah>problem is, if I had back-to-back insurance it would've probably worked out
22:16:52  <jesusabdullah>but because I fucked around for 6 months...
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22:17:24  <jesusabdullah>It's like they don't WANT me to be a functioning member of society
22:17:46  <st_luke>well the health insurance company doesnt really care
22:17:52  <st_luke>and the HR person at your company doesnt really care
22:18:02  <st_luke>but anyway
22:18:08  <jesusabdullah>Can I like, just
22:18:09  <st_luke>you can get your doctor to put the medication down for a different condition, even if its the same medicine
22:18:13  <st_luke>sometimes that works
22:18:14  <jesusabdullah>find the vp of humana that "signed" the letter
22:18:17  <jesusabdullah>and light him on fire?
22:19:19  <AvianFlu>this is why the profit motive really needs to not be the governing force in every industry
22:19:23  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: if your doctor is cool you can also get him to prescribe a really high dose and then it lasts for a long time
22:19:30  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: this medicine is for either bipolar disorder or seizures, and I only have one of them
22:19:39  <rch>/win 21
22:19:40  <AvianFlu>yeah finding a cool doctor who agrees that this is totally fucked is your only real option
22:19:41  <jesusabdullah>hard to fake
22:19:43  <rch>mrf :(
22:19:55  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: this is all aside from "oh we don't take humana"
22:19:59  <AvianFlu>doctors can navigate the sea of paperwork and make it logical sometimes
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22:20:00  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: its not about faking it, your doctor is on board with it
22:20:05  <st_luke>yeah
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22:20:11  <rch>jesusabdullah: man i hate humana
22:20:16  <AvianFlu>this used to happen with me when I was a kid regularly
22:20:34  <st_luke>first step is to find a really cool doctor like charlie said
22:20:35  <AvianFlu>my mom would convince the doctors to help her not go bankrupt from having two kids who needed stuff
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22:21:52  <st_luke>people ask me why I fly to upstate NY for doctors appointments, cause he's cool as fuck and will prescribe me anything I ask for, and we hang out and talk about the different places in the world we've traveled since the last time we saw each other
22:22:06  <st_luke>find a good doctor dude
22:22:10  <jesusabdullah>yeah
22:22:22  <jesusabdullah>there's a good place here but the appts are scheduled a month out
22:22:34  <jesusabdullah>and I've never been in the utah health system
22:22:44  <st_luke>sometimes places have early morning slots open for walk in type situations
22:22:45  <jesusabdullah>the bureaucracy wouldn't be so bad if I'd already seen someone in-state
22:23:07  <jesusabdullah>yeah st_luke nobody will walk-in my pills I've called all kinds of places
22:23:25  <st_luke>nah dont call about that
22:23:28  <st_luke>just go in for like a physical
22:23:37  <st_luke>or something else
22:23:39  <st_luke>and then bring it up
22:23:50  <st_luke>if you call asking for pills they will just say no easily
22:24:01  <jesusabdullah>no, I mean, they're legally unable to prescribe the class of medications I take
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22:25:05  <st_luke>well idk
22:27:33  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: mexico?
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23:06:21  <defunctzombie>st_luke: when does your new gig start?
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23:09:03  <st_luke>next monday
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