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00:39:53  <jesusabdullah>mk30: I was skeptical, but that mantra thing actually worked out pretty well :)
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02:13:20  <mk30>jesusabdullah i had the exact same experience! glad it helped :)
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02:19:08  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: I know this is wrong channel, but seriously interested in pointers in C and its ecosystem
02:19:30  <thlorenz>especially from someone who knows how simple things could be (npm) :)
02:19:59  <thlorenz>kind of dazzled and confused by all the options, none of which are simple and/or smooth
02:20:20  <thlorenz>btw 'pointers in C' (npi)
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02:27:55  <evbogue>thlorenz: I've been studying suckless.org's c applications
02:28:22  <evbogue>and well, using them
02:29:22  <thlorenz>evbogue: interesting, thanks -- boomarked
02:29:57  <thlorenz>I suppose this works with cmake? http://git.suckless.org/quark/tree/config.mk
02:30:23  <evbogue>haven't tried that one
02:30:49  <rvagg>ugh, cmake
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02:31:21  <rvagg>btw thlorenz, if you want to look at nice C then libuv is pretty darn nice to look at, all except the windows bit that is
02:31:22  <evbogue>http://suckless.org/sucks
02:32:20  <thlorenz>rvagg: thanks, defunctzombie_zz suggested I should look into cmake -- right now I'm using autotools, i.e. : https://github.com/thlorenz/multi-tap-example
02:32:41  <thlorenz>works ok for me, just has a huge learning curve - took me half of the weekend to figure these things out
02:32:56  <rvagg>I quite like gyp even tho docs are crap
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02:33:37  <thlorenz>rvagg: ah, thanks -- looks like libuv is using gyp and Autotools?
02:33:53  <rvagg>yar
02:34:24  <rvagg>of course if you can avoid complicated builds then even better!
02:34:35  <rvagg>just a simple makefile until you really get into dependency problems
02:34:44  <rvagg>or cross-platform oddities
02:35:22  <thlorenz>well I was trying that, but couldn't figure out how to setup a test runner w/ simple Makefile
02:35:55  <thlorenz>maybe I missed something, but wasn't sure how to do multiple files that have a main -- so I looked at other projects and found lots using autotools
02:36:41  <thlorenz>so for now the setup in that example works for me and I'll just keep using it, wanna really focus on C instead of the build tools ;)
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03:17:53  <thlorenz>rvagg: you have a point though - I don't even understand make
03:18:12  <thlorenz>I guess I'll give this a thorough read ;) http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/
03:18:13  <rvagg>mm, Make isn't intuitive
03:18:22  <rvagg>but it is critical
03:18:27  <rvagg>even gyp uses make to do the dirty work
03:18:49  <thlorenz>good to know - worth investing another half weekend into learning this then :)
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12:52:06  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) [email protected] successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
12:52:07  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
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14:29:35  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: sup dog
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14:45:25  <tmcw>GOOD MORNING LOUDBOT
14:45:25  <LOUDBOT>WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU PUT YOUR FUCKING PAGE FILE IN A FUCKING RAM DISK?
14:46:00  <mmalecki>LOUDBOT: BECAUSE I CAN
14:46:00  <LOUDBOT>mmalecki: WHY CAN'T YOU JUST BE ADULT AND SAY WHAT YOU MEAN THE FIRST TIME?
14:46:35  <mmalecki>actually, linux has swap *partitions*
14:46:40  <mmalecki>so I probably couldn't do that
14:46:54  <mmalecki>unless I LLVM'd the ram disk?
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14:47:21  <mmalecki>or can't swapfs reside on LLVM?
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15:57:02  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: sup
15:57:26  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I use to do lots of c and c++ shits
15:57:41  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: don't write makefiles by hand for anything that will be compiled
15:58:00  <thlorenz>but understanding make is critical right?
15:58:08  <defunctzombie>not really
15:58:09  <thlorenz>cause all tools generate them?
15:58:11  <defunctzombie>sure
15:58:17  <defunctzombie>you can understand it at a high level
15:58:19  <defunctzombie>there are targets
15:58:25  <defunctzombie>and those are the things that build stuff
15:58:30  <defunctzombie>typically you just type "make"
15:58:49  <thlorenz>makes sense, so I guess I'll learn about make somewhat and then look into cmake
15:59:44  <thlorenz>I may even write Makefiles by hand just once to see how it works, basically to replicate what I did with autotools here: https://github.com/thlorenz/multi-tap-example
16:00:36  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: getting different tips from different ppl btw, like some tell me NOT to use cmake, but just write simple Makefiles
16:01:03  <thlorenz>so I guess I gotta do a bit exploring, but I appreciate your pointers
16:01:15  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: don't listen to those people
16:01:18  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: they are wrong
16:01:19  <thlorenz>:)
16:01:25  <defunctzombie>real projects use a build system
16:01:31  <defunctzombie>gyp, scons, cmake
16:01:40  <thlorenz>yeah, have seen those
16:01:41  <defunctzombie>I like cmake because it gives you structure and makes sense
16:01:47  <defunctzombie>scons is too open ended
16:01:55  <defunctzombie>and gyp blows
16:02:05  <defunctzombie>the syntax is whack
16:02:26  <thlorenz>but node uses it right?
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16:02:32  <defunctzombie>sure
16:02:37  <defunctzombie>that doesn't make it good ;)
16:03:09  <thlorenz>it kinda sucks, all I wanted was to learn C to get a better understanding of how things work and now there is this entire separate animal that I have to figure out :(
16:03:12  <defunctzombie>I also prefer cmake for multi platform stuff
16:03:19  <defunctzombie>yea
16:03:26  <defunctzombie>this is life in the compilation land
16:03:43  <defunctzombie>with cmake, it seems dumb at first cause you have to learn their little syntax
16:03:49  <defunctzombie>but it is better long term
16:04:06  <defunctzombie>cause it has good structure for how to add custom library finding, etc
16:04:11  <defunctzombie>and works well across platforms
16:04:14  <defunctzombie>very well
16:05:04  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: so is the only full documentation available as a book you have to buy?
16:05:09  <defunctzombie>?
16:05:13  <thlorenz>http://www.cmake.org/cmake/help/documentation.html
16:05:30  <thlorenz>except for the 'excerpt' tutorial
16:05:43  <defunctzombie>I never bought no book
16:05:47  <defunctzombie>everything is online
16:06:06  <defunctzombie>http://www.cmake.org/cmake/help/v2.8.12/cmake.html
16:06:18  <defunctzombie>those are all the functions
16:06:23  <thlorenz>ah, so you read the reference, ok
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16:06:40  <defunctzombie>http://www.cmake.org/cmake/help/examples.html
16:06:53  <thlorenz>cool, thanks, will learn a bit about Make then and walk my way through the tutorial and the examples
16:07:28  <defunctzombie>if your stuff is meant to be a node module tho.. you should use gyp
16:07:45  <defunctzombie>if it is a standalone c/c++ project or whatnot, then I would absolutely use cmake
16:07:49  <defunctzombie>over anything else
16:09:52  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: ok, thanks
16:11:17  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: I suppose you don't use this odd UI though right?
16:11:19  <thlorenz>http://www.cmake.org/cmake/help/runningcmake.html
16:11:30  <defunctzombie>no
16:11:33  <defunctzombie>I use CLI
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16:40:10  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.226.209 (free4)
16:43:30  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: https://twitter.com/jesusabdullah/status/395228683092258816 :D
16:45:59  <jesusabdullah>Gave Angular all that I had to give, $scope's gonna make it hard to live...
16:51:24  <AvianFlu>LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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16:53:03  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: ^45
16:53:04  <jesusabdullah>er
16:53:05  <jesusabdullah>^5
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18:03:53  <st_luke>using ruby to build a javascript library is just trolling
18:04:27  <jesusabdullah>>:D
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19:14:06  <defunctzombie>http://live.julik.nl/2013/05/javascript-is-shit
19:14:41  <defunctzombie>hahaha
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19:23:07  <jesusabdullah>uhhh
19:23:15  <jesusabdullah>I see the conflation of these things as a strength
19:25:19  <jcrugzz>defunctzombie: it jsut reads as an angry irrational rant
19:25:24  <jcrugzz>like come on
19:25:32  <defunctzombie>jcrugzz: it is an angry irrational rant
19:25:39  <defunctzombie>this person just hates life
19:26:11  <jcrugzz>haha, one of those people where you check their twitter feed and go, "Oh, ok"
19:27:37  <AvianFlu>javascript isn't shit. know what's shit? CFML.
19:27:39  <jesusabdullah>I mean, I could claim that python's shit because it doesn't have anonymous functions
19:27:59  <jesusabdullah>or that functions, methods and lambdas all have different types
19:28:27  <jesusabdullah>but that wouldn't really be TRUE, in that those are design decisions that have pros and cons the same way js's do
19:29:58  * tilgovijoined
19:30:23  <jesusabdullah>python has "old objects" and "new objects" too. Like, wtf?
19:30:36  <jesusabdullah>and what about ruby's eigenclasses?
19:30:50  <st_luke>cancel javascript
19:30:51  <st_luke>its over
19:30:53  <jesusabdullah>yo dawg I herd u liek classes
19:31:09  <jesusabdullah>join javascript in SYNDICATION
19:33:02  <st_luke>you can write classes in js if you want
19:33:23  <jesusabdullah>http://matt16enoch.mywapblog.com/the-best-suggestions-on-cobol-job-interv.xhtml
19:33:32  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: naw I was referring to python and ruby with that remark
19:40:32  <jesusabdullah>ugh pivotal is so confusing
19:40:39  <jesusabdullah>wtf is an icebox? what does "backlog" mean?
19:40:46  <jesusabdullah>makes me miss asana
19:40:59  <Maciek416>stuff you don't want to think about right now and is not scheduled for any milestones
19:41:07  <Maciek416>but needs to exist as a ticket somewhere
19:42:53  <jesusabdullah>which one?
19:42:57  <jesusabdullah>icebox or backlog?
19:43:19  <Maciek416>oooh
19:43:22  * Maciek416forgets
19:43:26  <jesusabdullah>yup
19:43:29  <Maciek416>so happy to not be using that anymore
19:43:46  <Maciek416>I think icebox is what I said above
19:44:05  <Maciek416>and backlog is the stuff that pivotal magically thinks you won't have time for
19:44:06  <jesusabdullah>I just want the categories, "shit I'm not working on," "shit I'm working on," "shit that's g2g"
19:44:29  <jesusabdullah>http://keeptrackofyoursh.it
19:44:36  <jesusabdullah>that's the tracker I want to use
19:48:07  <jcrugzz>jesusabdullah: backlog sounds like what Maciek416 described
19:48:13  <jcrugzz>idk wtf an icebox would be
19:48:33  <jesusabdullah>apparently the icebox is, "shit someone should do but who knows if we'll ever get around to it"
19:48:44  <jesusabdullah>and backlog is, "okay we actually talkeda bout this and, yeah, we should probably do that"
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19:50:57  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: backlog is just a list of shit to get done
19:51:01  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: this is a very common term
19:51:45  <defunctzombie>icebox is just long term far out ideas
19:51:55  <defunctzombie>they don't need to clutter your current work environment or task list
19:52:01  <defunctzombie>but maybe if you get an intern or something
19:52:06  <defunctzombie>you can pick from that pool of stuff
19:52:17  <defunctzombie>these are just terms to categorize priority
19:53:11  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 173.203.67.76(free3)
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20:16:45  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [free: 51]
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20:43:44  <Domenic_>man i <3 pivotal, so much better than the other stuff i've used
20:43:49  <Domenic_>maybe trello would be ok too
20:43:54  <Domenic_>but so much better than jira or rally
20:45:47  <mmalecki>I liked &bang
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21:18:47  <robertkowalski>we were quite happy with do.com for organizing our js unconf with now 6 people
21:19:19  <robertkowalski>as do.com is closing now, we are searching for another, free solution.
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21:43:39  <jesusabdullah>trello sucks too Domenic_
21:43:54  <jesusabdullah>I've never seen a to-do app that I actually like
21:44:22  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: how does pivotal compare with trello?
21:44:23  <defunctzombie>I use trello
21:49:07  <gildean>we use kanbanflow at work, it's pretty similar to trello
21:49:50  <jesusabdullah>*I* use markdown
21:50:31  <gildean>nerd
21:50:44  <DTrejo>i use pieces of paper that i recycle after i write the thing down
21:50:54  <DTrejo>"yes, writing down the problem now"
21:50:56  <DTrejo>;)
21:51:34  <jesusabdullah>I do that too
21:51:36  <jesusabdullah>honestly, more so
21:51:38  <DTrejo>i subscribe to the 37signals "if its important, i wont forget it" mantra
21:51:48  <DTrejo>but writing it down takes it off your head
21:51:50  <jesusabdullah>but sometimes I also throw together a tdl gist
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22:01:36  <Domenic_>defunctzombie: I haven't used trello in a while but when I did it was more general and less software-development--focused than pivotal
22:02:00  <Domenic_>pivotal has built-in concepts like bugs vs. features vs. tasks, story points, etc.
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22:02:16  <Domenic_>the thing i love about pivotal is how everything is so easy to access. just one click to adjust most things
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22:02:33  <Domenic_>trello had a bit of that but pivotal made it an art form
22:02:47  <Domenic_>compared to jira etc. where there's so many screens and shit is so slow
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22:06:47  <tilgovi>substack: browserify is still broken with --standalone and --debug. source maps are thrown off by the UMD wrapper. I've done a test here downstream to prove this to myself by doing the umd wrapping myself and updating the source map. Would you take a PR to browser-pack to add standalone support there, where the source maps are handled already, and then a subsequent PR on node-browserify to take the umd stuff out and pass it through to browser-
22:06:47  <tilgovi>pack?
22:07:06  <tilgovi>I'll do that today if so.
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22:43:54  <wolfeidau>Hey has anyone seen any work on CRDTs outside of Domenic Tarrs stuff, in Javascript?
22:45:41  <Raynos>yes
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22:48:24  <wolfeidau>Raynos: I am watched a really good presentation on all the different data types which the CRDTs researchers were building
22:48:38  <Raynos>I think https://github.com/nko3/foojs/tree/master/kv is also a crdt
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22:48:40  <Raynos>but cant remember
22:48:44  <wolfeidau>Raynos: I am interested in whether anyone has done any work bring them over to JS
22:49:02  <Raynos>not that I know
22:49:07  <jaz303>wolfeidau: got a link to the presentation?
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22:51:46  <wolfeidau>jaz303: Just trying to find it now
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22:54:27  <wolfeidau>jaz303: http://research.microsoft.com/apps/video/dl.aspx?id=153540
22:54:51  <wolfeidau>Strong Eventual Consistency and Conflict-free Replicated Data Types by Marc Shapiro
22:55:33  <jaz303>downloading
22:55:52  <wolfeidau>What I was interested in was the range of data types supported being counters sets ect
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23:21:41  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.226.209 (free4)
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