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00:03:06  <substack>defunctzombie: ogd has done that some
00:03:31  <defunctzombie>substack: it is actually quite nice
00:03:38  <defunctzombie>substack: obviously manually compiling worked
00:03:51  <defunctzombie>substack: but based on my reading, I think they support commonjs require
00:04:08  <defunctzombie>tho I can't seem to find how that is or if that is for my app files or for their internal stuff
00:04:26  <defunctzombie>so awesome to just use my existing libs tho!
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00:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 46]
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00:55:28  <defunctzombie>ogd: is this true?
00:55:34  <defunctzombie>ogd: are you the master of cordova here?
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01:06:01  <owen1>defunctzombie: #phonegap
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01:50:21  <spion>Raynos, its still useful for BB to do tyr-catch on errors
01:50:40  <spion>even if you dont subscribe to that error handling paradigm
01:50:44  <spion>it will add all previous events to the stack trace.
01:50:48  <spion>before throwing
01:51:09  <spion>you will get a much more useful stacktrace.
01:51:14  <spion>s/tyr/try
01:52:13  <spion>between finally and stateless code, I believe that the issue with catching all errors is an overreaction
01:52:35  <spion>its only in stateful code with no clean-up its useful to crash the process
01:52:45  <spion>but, whatever floats your boat.
02:02:36  <defunctzombie>owen1: I asked in #cordova (same thing right?)
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04:34:47  <owen1>defunctzombie: cordova has less devs. i would ask in phonegap
04:35:07  <defunctzombie>owen1: ah ok... thanks will try that
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04:36:03  <owen1>i think phonegap/cordova devs needs some browseryfy love. we should show them the light (:
04:36:34  <defunctzombie>yes, yes we should
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04:55:54  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.6(free5)
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05:29:38  <substack>echo "console.log('beep boop')" | browserify | node
05:29:42  <substack>that works in 3.14.0
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06:07:12  <jjjohnny_>what's yr favorite minifier?
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09:06:07  <grncdr>crap, is there no way to get coverage on code that throws? (using coverify/covert)
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09:11:14  <grncdr>meh, that code didn't really need to throw anyways
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10:55:55  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.6(free5)
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11:06:43  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: testling server winIE6 (rackspace) is down!
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16:21:54  <defunctzombie>isaacs: where is the code in npm that triggers the gyp build?
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16:55:56  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.6(free5)
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17:33:43  <defunctzombie>wooo great success
17:34:00  <defunctzombie>made an npm-install script which does recursive installs
17:34:38  <defunctzombie>and is fast
17:34:54  <defunctzombie>does a full install of my deps tree in 15 seconds
17:34:59  <defunctzombie>versus 1 minute for npm install
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18:12:09  <juliangruber>see how a module is used in npm: https://github.com/juliangruber/module-usage
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18:12:56  <brycebaril>juliangruber: cool!
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18:15:42  <brycebaril>juliangruber: doh, crashes pretty fast when I try with 'redis'
18:16:02  <juliangruber>brycebaril: ok thanks, looking into it
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18:30:03  <jesusabdullah>nee! nee! substack kun! http://azac.pl/cobol-on-wheelchair/
18:30:12  <jesusabdullah>also defunctzombie that's p sweet
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18:34:23  <juliangruber>brycebaril: syntax errors are now ignored and it has a bin (npm install -g module-usage)
18:34:43  <juliangruber>redis doesn't work well though, because i'm not yet analyzing `redis.createClient()`
18:34:49  <juliangruber>will add this now
18:35:30  <brycebaril>juliangruber: cool. this is actually going to be super useful for informing things like options refactors
18:35:45  <juliangruber>yeah that's what I thought too
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18:49:52  <brycebaril>juliangruber: works better now that the syntax errors are ignored. some weird stuff showing up, but pretty neat. Definitely eager to see it with stuff like redis.createClient!
18:50:00  <juliangruber>working on it
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18:56:02  <juliangruber>brycebaril: https://gist.github.com/juliangruber/8086761
18:57:12  <brycebaril>juliangruber: this is awesome. Your timing couldn't have been better for my current node_redis refactor work :)
18:57:18  <juliangruber>:D
18:57:26  <juliangruber>aww man that's cool!
18:58:04  <juliangruber>feel free to bug me for more syntax to support
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18:59:44  <brycebaril>Nice! it even caught an instance where someone modified a subclass: https://gist.github.com/brycebaril/d455887488639c64a31b
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19:06:55  <juliangruber>sweet!
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19:07:19  <juliangruber>brycebaril: i'm exposing `u.node` now too, in case you want to automate analyzing using the ast
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19:10:42  <jcrugzz>brycebaril: where you doing the work for modularizing the pieces for redis? Got a hell of a layover in beijing currently so i wouldnt mind reading some code :)
19:12:36  <brycebaril>jcrugzz: still trying to get started in earnest, every time I get a chunk of time to work at it I end up doing a bunch of PR work instead :(
19:13:28  <brycebaril>jcrugzz: at the moment I'm working on a branch to do the initial split of the connection-manager logic, hoping to push that as a branch today
19:14:51  <jcrugzz>brycebaril: tis not a trivial task!
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19:14:58  <jcrugzz>but awesome! Ill definitely check it out
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20:03:23  <substack>Raynos: I'm going to take a look at fixing https://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/4312 today
20:07:07  <johnkpaul>Does anyone have any thought son how to best enforce that a module has been installed when using a particular transform
20:07:36  <johnkpaul>oh wait, I think I can do that with a peerDependency
20:07:53  <johnkpaul>had to type it outloud
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20:24:27  <ogd>defunctzombie: yea i did cordova dev about a year ago, but got bored w/ mobile
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20:40:55  <substack>johnkpaul: https://github.com/johnkpaul/promethify looks really cool
20:41:12  <johnkpaul>thanks!
20:42:24  <substack>johnkpaul: I wonder if you could get the scriptjs dependency automatically inserted without having to install a top-level dependency
20:42:29  <substack>ah!
20:42:52  <substack>so in promethify you could 'var scriptjs=require(' + require.resolve('scriptjs') + ')'
20:43:04  <johnkpaul>substack: I couldn't figure out a way to do it w/o including the entire source in every transformed file
20:43:10  <substack>or rather, 'var scriptjs=require(' + JSON.stringify(require.resolve('scriptjs')) + ')'
20:43:31  <substack>the transform machinery kicks in before the require()s are resolved
20:43:37  <johnkpaul>ooh
20:43:48  <substack>so as long as scriptjs is a dependency of promethify it should work
20:44:05  <johnkpaul>that makes sense, didn't think about pulling it from the full file name
20:44:38  <johnkpaul>:) that's great! takes away my biggest annoyance with this
20:45:43  <substack>I'll add promethify to the readme
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20:46:09  <substack>you might want to also update the promethify readme to say v2+ transform
20:46:16  <substack>all the old v2 transforms work in v3
20:46:39  <johnkpaul>ah right, will do
20:47:16  <substack>an example of how to generate the bundles in the first place would be good for the promethify readme too
20:48:59  <substack>like what the `browserify -t promethify` commands would be for that example
20:49:00  <johnkpaul>substack: you mean how to use promethify on the command line?
20:49:03  <substack>yep
20:49:07  <johnkpaul>ah I see, yes that makes sense
20:49:56  <substack>I'll forward this along to davglass
20:51:10  <johnkpaul>cool, is he working on similar things?
20:53:40  <substack>yep we had some good back-and-forth at nodeconf eu in ireland
20:54:22  <juliangruber>brycebaril: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6951665
20:55:53  <ogd>worth an npm star: https://npmjs.org/package/stdout
20:56:14  <ogd>(works in browser too now)
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21:04:07  <ogd>juliangruber: are you hacking a browserify type stuff?
21:04:25  <juliangruber>ogd: hm?
21:04:39  <ogd>juliangruber: trying to infer from your last few modules
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21:05:07  <juliangruber>ogd: the modules i released today all were for module-usage. i might add a website but that's the idea i had
21:05:20  <ogd>juliangruber: oh cool, ill check it out
21:05:28  <juliangruber>cool :)
21:05:42  <ogd>juliangruber: also random question, does level-store put blobs in leveldb or on the fs and just track them in leveldb?
21:06:05  <juliangruber>ogd: level-store is like an objectMode stream
21:06:06  <juliangruber>yeah
21:06:27  <juliangruber>ogd: there's level-blocked (https://github.com/juliangruber/level-blocked) but I haven't finished that yet
21:06:32  <juliangruber>and currently not working on it
21:08:10  <ogd>juliangruber: ah so both of those store all data in leveldb?
21:08:18  <juliangruber>aaah
21:08:20  <juliangruber>yeah they do
21:08:29  <ogd>juliangruber: i think a better way to do it would be to track fs blobs
21:08:53  <ogd>juliangruber: and do things like split up huge files into multiple blobs, or do it the way git does it in a sort of append-only blob tree
21:09:22  <juliangruber>ogd: hm depends on the use case
21:09:31  <ogd>juliangruber: also making sure to not put too many files in a folder, etc
21:09:36  <juliangruber>my initial thought about level-store was that i wanted to avoid emfile errors
21:09:40  <juliangruber>yeah
21:10:24  <ogd>juliangruber: gotcha, its just a lot slower to iterate when keys are large in leveldb like that
21:10:40  <juliangruber>hmm
21:10:54  <juliangruber>i don't need level-store at the moment so my motivation for working on it isn't the highest
21:10:55  <ogd>juliangruber: whereas if it was just metadata in leveldb you could write a faster rsync style replicator
21:11:01  <ogd>juliangruber: gotcha
21:11:09  <ogd>juliangruber: just bouncing ideas around :)
21:11:24  * shamajoined
21:11:55  <juliangruber>i think it still depends a lot on the use case
21:12:12  <juliangruber>yeah now i remember, the main motivation was piping data into leveldb keys
21:12:52  <ogd>perf wise you can only get so far putting everything into leveldb
21:13:17  <ogd>so i agree that its dependent on use case, mine happens to be more demanding perf-wise
21:14:45  <ogd>juliangruber: hey also what module do you use for bootstrapping new modules?
21:14:47  <johnkpaul>substack: with respect to the CLI docs, now that I think about it, I don't think that it can be used that way. I use it in a bundle script. This will spin up a web server so it won't actually exit
21:15:35  <substack>johnkpaul: can we split that part out so that it's more reusable?
21:16:21  <substack>can you make it work so that
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21:16:37  <substack>browserify -t promethify main.js > firstBundle.js works?
21:16:50  <substack>browserify -t promethify second.js > secondBundle.js
21:16:57  <substack>then main.js loads secondBundle.js
21:17:06  <substack>with a require(['secondBundle.js'],f)
21:17:19  <johnkpaul>ah, that's not how it works
21:17:28  <johnkpaul>the web server part could be split out, but then idk what this would do
21:17:42  <substack>how does it work with the web server?
21:18:05  <substack>that seems to really lock people into using the web server provided by this module
21:18:17  <substack>but if they already have an existing web server that is not very useful
21:18:27  <johnkpaul>yeah, I could write those to files or something
21:19:01  * jcrugzzquit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
21:19:15  <johnkpaul>I need to somehow get the full path to the bundle
21:19:18  <johnkpaul>to have scriptjs load it
21:19:51  <substack>you could put that in the package.json
21:19:55  <johnkpaul>I can provide a way to write those files to disk, but then I need configuration to define what the hostname and url
21:19:58  <substack>like you're already doing with the port
21:20:10  <johnkpaul>ah I see
21:20:12  <substack>so perhaps
21:20:21  <substack>you could have a baseurl in the package.json, requirejs style
21:20:56  <substack>and then promethify could just resolve against that baseurl
21:21:25  <johnkpaul>how should I provide the bundles back to the user?
21:21:32  <johnkpaul>to make sure they serve it at that baseurl
21:21:34  <juliangruber>ogd: i use pkginit and write the rest manually
21:21:45  <juliangruber>ogd: what do you use?
21:22:03  <ogd>juliangruber: npm init and write the rest manually :P
21:22:09  <substack>juliangruber: my pkginit config spawns `npmlv -t` :D
21:22:36  <ogd>oh cool didnt know about npmlv
21:22:44  <juliangruber>substack: i always do npm i --save for that
21:22:50  <juliangruber>didn't know about that either tho
21:22:52  <ogd>yea ditto o/
21:22:57  <substack>https://gist.github.com/substack/8088607
21:23:05  <juliangruber>https://gist.github.com/juliangruber/8088601
21:23:09  <substack>johnkpaul: from disk sounds good
21:23:37  <substack>johnkpaul: your tool can just read the package.json promethify.base parameter
21:23:49  <juliangruber>substack: what's the advantage of running pkginit as the last step?
21:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 10]
21:24:24  <substack>juliangruber: I just `npm install` packages as I build the code up
21:24:37  <substack>juliangruber: because I can't answer all the questions like description until I have some code
21:24:43  <substack>I would rather not answer all those questions up-front
21:24:55  <substack>because I only know the answers at the end right before I publish
21:25:00  <juliangruber>substack: i prefer the readme first kinda style
21:25:19  <johnkpaul>substack: so you mean having an output dir property too that I would write the files into?
21:25:36  <substack>juliangruber: I only vaguely know what I'm going to build when I make a directory.
21:25:46  <johnkpaul>and just write in the docs, you will have to serve these files separately and put the hostname/post/baseuri in the config?
21:26:39  <substack>johnkpaul: what about a command
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21:27:13  <substack>promethify main.js -o outputdir/
21:28:00  <substack>you can even get at the argument parsing that browserify uses so you can support all the same arguments
21:28:22  <substack>https://github.com/substack/watchify/blob/master/bin/cmd.js#L7
21:28:44  <substack>then just do browserify(fromArgs(process.argv.slice(2)) to make the browserify bundle
21:28:57  <johnkpaul>oh I see
21:30:09  <johnkpaul>I guess it's not usual to only use browserify through the programatic API
21:30:15  <johnkpaul>I so rarely use the CLI
21:30:29  <substack>you can have an API too
21:30:54  <substack>but tools should support both the API and the CLI to get the maximum number of people using them
21:31:12  <substack>where possible
21:31:20  <johnkpaul>yeah
21:31:32  <johnkpaul>this is a I-want-it-all situation
21:32:04  <johnkpaul>I want to give the option to write the files, but I think in most situations, having the fast default startingh up a web server is really useful
21:32:17  <substack>I think CLI usage is really good at communicating how a tool works to people who haven't used it before
21:32:22  <substack>even if they only use the API version
21:32:25  <johnkpaul>yeah, I agree
21:32:50  <substack>well starting a web server is great but that's a separate concern
21:32:55  <johnkpaul>I think that I should wrap this in a CLI as well as give the option to have this as a transform that starts a server or writes files
21:32:56  <substack>so it should be a separate module
21:33:07  <substack>or it should integrate with one of the existing servers like beefy
21:33:32  <substack>it would be ok to have a --server mode but it seems a bit unnecessary
21:34:02  <substack>but the people your module will need to convince to use it probably already have their own way of serving files
21:34:29  <substack>so it's important to show them how they can use your loader without having to throw everything they've already written away to use your thing
21:34:38  <johnkpaul>I think it's much easier from an it-just-works perspective
21:34:41  <johnkpaul>oh, there's no throwing away
21:34:55  <johnkpaul>the server is separate, just needs a port number that happens to be open, and it just works
21:35:02  <substack>but they'll need to run *another* server
21:35:06  <johnkpaul>I am using it with express
21:35:16  <johnkpaul>yeah
21:35:22  <johnkpaul>well, they don't need to _know_ that
21:35:25  <johnkpaul>but yeah, they do
21:35:40  <johnkpaul>it's a one liner http server, to allow it to work OOTB
21:35:40  <substack>I think most people who want to split up their code into multiple bundles loaded asynchronously already have a lot of process and infrastructure set up
21:36:07  <johnkpaul>yeah that's true
21:36:16  <substack>and they will just bounce when they see your module because it requires them to run another server
21:36:24  <substack>that's what I would do
21:37:21  <substack>"just works" from zero is not as important of a consideration as answering "how do I use this in my existing codebase"
21:37:24  <johnkpaul>yeah, it makes sense to make it confirguable, I just want to have as little overhead to trying it out as possible
21:37:51  <johnkpaul>hmm, yeah, I agree
21:38:18  <johnkpaul>it just happens to be that my first use case was fine with another server
21:38:55  <johnkpaul>I'm making some github issues to work on this
21:39:04  <substack>cool!
21:39:37  <johnkpaul>I am thinking that the first step to the most modular solution is something like "if there's an ouputDir in packagejson, don't spin up web server, just write files"
21:40:06  <substack>sounds like a good starting point
21:40:26  <substack>also you could use this instead of eval in your code: https://npmjs.org/package/static-eval
21:41:39  <johnkpaul>substack: ah awesome, that's much better
21:42:30  <johnkpaul>I hate having to turn off linting options
21:42:52  <substack>anyways, it's great that you're working on this problem!
21:43:04  <substack>it is one of the remaining big gaps in the browserify ecosystem
21:46:08  <johnkpaul>I'm glad! I agree, I've missed having it before and I really didn't want to do everything manually with the command line and jQuery.getScript
21:48:15  * substackback to fixing that npm bug
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21:49:32  <johnkpaul>thanks for the feedback and help substack
21:51:27  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.72.69 (free7)
21:57:56  <substack>ogd: https://twitter.com/Amazing_Maps/status/414543920820150272/photo/1
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21:58:37  <ogd>haha
21:59:01  <ogd>gotta get more subsaharan metal
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22:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 19]
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22:55:57  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.6(free5)
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23:13:14  * shamajoined
23:14:42  <guybrush>do you guys know any good html5-shim? i only found https://github.com/codeparty/dom-shim so far
23:17:18  <guybrush>also https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Element.classList#wrapper
23:18:08  * shamaquit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:24:03  <rowbit>Daily usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 487]
23:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 30]
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23:50:09  <jesusabdullah>holy crap iptables is huge
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