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00:22:58  <substack>http://oaklandwiki.org/Dominic_Tarr
00:23:49  <ogd>lol
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00:27:21  <jesusabdullah>FREE WIFI
00:27:22  <LOUDBOT>I DONT KNOW ALL THE RULES OBVIOUSLY
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00:49:58  <feross>lolz
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01:25:34  <jlord>substack: i love the tag `living legend`
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02:03:49  <jesusabdullah>https://twitter.com/korbenisabird Should tweet a few times a day
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02:27:37  <ogd>jesusabdullah: excellent
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02:28:05  <jesusabdullah>ogd: haha thanks
02:28:13  <jesusabdullah>ogd: hacking in replies to @mentions right now
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05:28:26  <Domenic_>whatwg/streams hack day tomorrow: https://twitter.com/domenic/status/424775096738131968
05:29:13  <groundwater>apparently cyberhobo is closely related to 'living legend'
05:31:22  <jjjohnny>the stuff bbq sauce is made of
05:35:50  <jesusabdullah>Oh man does it feel good to hack
05:35:59  <jesusabdullah>This twitter bot's the first cool thing I've done in a WHILE
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07:55:21  <dlmanning>Is there a better way, using tape, to test for existance than t.notEqual(x == null, true) ?
07:55:44  <dlmanning>s/existance/existence
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08:00:17  <eugeneware>t.ok(x)
08:01:15  <dlmanning>This would be a problem if x = 0, no?
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09:17:56  <joates>ralphtheninja: hi, whats the minimum wallet to wallet tx that won't incurr a tx fee.. 0.0001btc ?
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09:32:03  <ralphtheninja>joates: I don't think it's based on the amount you are sending but rather the size of the transaction
09:32:10  <joates>ralphtheninja: from http://bitcoinfees.com i think it might be 0.01 or <9999 bytes
09:32:28  <joates>ralphtheninja: it's a bit confusing :(
09:33:52  <joates>ralphtheninja: ok thanks
09:35:08  <ralphtheninja>joates: yes it's confusing :)
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09:38:40  <ralphtheninja>joates: it seems to be more based on giving the right incentives, which the user knows nothing about
09:41:04  <ralphtheninja>joates: and it's obviously crucial to the future of bitcoin, especially when the blockreward goes to zero eventually
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09:42:04  <dominictarr>joates, yo!
09:42:09  <joates>ralphtheninja: yep, i'm not trying to avoid fees, just want to setup a test system for feedopensource.com
09:42:25  <joates>ralphtheninja: is there such a thing as 'testcoin' ?
09:42:29  <ralphtheninja>yes
09:42:34  <joates>dominictarr: hi
09:42:39  <dominictarr>you run a "testnet"
09:42:49  <ralphtheninja>joates: bitcoind -test
09:42:51  <dominictarr>which is the, uh, "playmoney" version of bitcoin
09:43:24  <joates>ralphtheninja, dominictarr: pm ?
09:43:33  <dominictarr>sure
09:44:33  <dominictarr>Raynos, substack I've been hatching a plan for a secure version of scuttlebutt, that replicates partially overlapping networks like your twitter followers
09:46:37  <dominictarr>Raynos, substack here is the key insight: you don't need a global routing overlay
09:46:48  <joates>ralphtheninja: did u get /invite ?
09:47:37  <dominictarr>joates, ah, that is different. it invites someone to a channel
09:48:06  <joates>oh
09:48:16  <dominictarr>joates, to ##feedopensource !
09:48:54  <dominictarr>Raynos, substack so... you could route emails with a [email protected][list of interests]
09:49:55  <dominictarr>Imagine if you could send me an email by sending it to by public key (which would verify my identity when it got near me) but you would just route it by providing a list of my interests
09:50:31  <dominictarr>[javascript, boats, bicycles, wellington, oakland, anarchy, beard, etc...]
09:51:04  <ralphtheninja>.concat([beer])
09:51:46  <dominictarr>if you where the other side of the world, you mightn't know the route, but you could just send the message *towards* me, and it would get closer and closer.
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09:52:34  <dominictarr>with enough knowledge in your local network, you probably know *someone* who is closer to anybody
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09:55:21  <dominictarr>substack, Raynos also, I have an idea how to handle revocations: when ever you do something you sign it into your personal block chain (this is what is replicated scuttlebutt-like)
09:55:32  <dominictarr>this has to be a strictly singly-linked-list
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09:57:18  <dominictarr>if a fork is ever discovered, if there are two updates in parallel from the same key, then all the other nodes will assume that key is compromised.
09:58:11  <dominictarr>so, if someone grabs your key they probably won't be able to steal your identity (unless they manage to delete your copy of the key off your device - much more tricky)
09:59:31  <dominictarr>Although, they would be able to evesdrop on any private data, which is still bad, but not as bad as bitcoin.
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12:44:36  <dominictarr>ralphtheninja, ANOTHER ONE https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/blob/master/Bitcloud%20Nontechnical%20White%20Paper.md
12:45:14  <dominictarr>(a bitcoin spinoff where they fund development via preorders of the new cryptocurrency)
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12:52:44  <dominictarr>they write a "whitepaper" ... but do not actually have a clear idea about how the core of their system will work: https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/wiki/Proof-of-Bandwidth
12:53:34  <dominictarr>haha, http://talk.bitcloudproject.org/index.php?topic=8.0
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12:55:21  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: aye, I've seen it
12:56:00  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: it looked a bit messy
12:57:10  <ralphtheninja>I don't understand why they even have to make a new coin for it
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13:24:20  <dominictarr>ralphtheninja, I've actually been thinking about similar things, but I don't think their proof of bandwidth thing is viable, because no one else can verify it.
13:24:31  <dominictarr>you have to take the verifiers at their word
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13:24:58  <dominictarr>which if you can build a crypto currency around, it will be completely different to bitcoin.
13:25:30  <dominictarr>this is also interesting: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake
13:25:42  <dominictarr>but nobody mentions the sybil attack
13:26:09  <dominictarr>what if I just generated as many addresses as possible, to gain the chance that I got to vote more often?
13:27:09  <dominictarr>my plan could just be to reap transaction fees.
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13:46:02  <dominictarr>ralphtheninja, *maybe* you could get a proof of stake scheme to work.
13:46:38  <dominictarr>but it's not simple like a proof of work is simple.
13:54:00  <ralphtheninja>nods PoW is surprisingly simple to implement and yet so powerful
13:54:32  <ralphtheninja>you could base one on Sudoku :)
14:06:54  <dominictarr>yes. the key is just that it's easier to verify than to find the solution.
14:07:30  <dominictarr>where as this PoS hurts your head when you try to think about it. that is a bad sign.
14:07:43  <ralphtheninja>yes
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14:20:03  <dominictarr>relocating
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17:55:23  <grncdr>anybody know if there's a handy tool out there that will unbundle a browserified bundle?
18:03:11  <substack>grncdr: https://npmjs.org/package/browser-unpack
18:04:47  <ehd>grncdr: whatcha working on? :)
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19:25:00  <groundwater>damn docker index, i keep getting 500 errors trying to push new images
19:25:12  <groundwater>will yelling about it fix the problem?
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19:27:50  <rowbit>Daily usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 952]
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19:36:17  <ogd>substack: hey can i somehow coerce you into writing that rsync module?
19:36:25  <ogd>substack: i have bitcoin and dogecoin
19:36:37  <substack>oooo
19:36:44  <substack>ogd: yeah ok
19:37:02  <substack>I've just got to finish this 1 more thing today
19:37:17  <substack>it's really crazy awesome
19:37:23  <ogd>substack: what is it?
19:37:51  <substack>ogd: it's basically everything that angular and meteor do with also shared server and client side rendering
19:37:57  <substack>using several tiny modules
19:38:01  <ogd>substack: ohhh yea
19:38:04  <ogd>substack: sweet
19:38:27  <substack>these modules are pretty hilariously tiny
19:38:44  <substack>but also really hard to write the core lib, which is very tiny too
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20:08:24  <kumavis>ogd feedback on https://github.com/maxogden/workerstream/pull/5 appreciated
20:08:49  <kumavis>ogd if you can get back to me today I can make any necesary modifications before i go back to workwork
20:09:03  <kumavis>or just publish it as its own
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20:12:18  <ogd>kumavis: can you add a simple test?
20:14:01  <chrisdickinson>ogd: working on something that may be of interest: https://github.com/chrisdickinson/dom-event-stream
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20:14:40  <chrisdickinson>+ dom-value-stream + dom-replace-html-stream: https://github.com/chrisdickinson/dom-replace-html-stream/blob/master/example.js
20:15:32  <chrisdickinson>cc substack ^ (re: frontend modules providing framework functionality)
20:16:21  <chrisdickinson>only have about two remaining modules to write for it -- a application state stream and a gate-updates-by-requestanimationframe stream
20:17:33  <chrisdickinson>also re: attr-ev: you can use event bubbling to just assign the listener you want to `document.body` (and check when the listener fires if `ev.target.matchesSelector(selector)`
20:17:41  <kumavis>is there a good hash location router module?
20:17:44  <chrisdickinson>this also is handy for times when the nodes aren't added to the body yet
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20:18:40  <kumavis>ogd yes, I was going to add a demo but I didnt know how to keep it consistent with the setup / file structure you had
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20:20:31  <ogd>kumavis: i think maybe a test/ folder would be good
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20:27:50  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 90]
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21:02:55  <ralphtheninja>defunctzombie_zz: would be nice if you could break out the local base58.js you are using in bitcoin-address
21:03:17  <ralphtheninja>defunctzombie_zz: your version is the only one I can find that is not coffee script or built on c
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21:27:50  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 75]
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21:46:29  <kumavis>ogd whew talk about rabbit holes. added a simple test.
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22:01:03  <ehd>juliangruber: i dig reconnect-core
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22:08:46  <ogd>kumavis: thanks!
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22:26:21  <defunctzombie>ralphtheninja: sure
22:26:22  <defunctzombie>ralphtheninja: feel free to break it out into a module
22:26:24  <defunctzombie>ralphtheninja: I think there was one, but maybe it was coffeescript
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22:27:51  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 78]
22:28:17  <ralphtheninja>defunctzombie: yeah it was :)
22:28:29  <ralphtheninja>defunctzombie: cool, I'll get to it tomorrow
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22:49:12  <othiym23>Domenic_: is your assumption that BasicReadableStream / ReadableStream / TeeStream will be made available as globals?
22:49:14  <kumavis>substack: what do you think is better, using 'global' or 'self'? https://github.com/substack/http-browserify/pull/37
22:49:39  <kumavis>global is certainly a browserify thing, but so is this module
22:49:43  <Domenic_>othiym23: yeah, pretty sure modules won't be ready in browsers by the time this happens
22:49:52  <othiym23>cool
22:50:14  <kumavis>otherwise I think I would go with 'self' for compatibility reasons
22:50:14  <othiym23>Domenic_: that pre-empts my next question, which was whethre you wanted an ES5 or ES6 implementation ;)
22:50:20  <Domenic_>one day... `import { ReadableStream } from "@platform/streams"`
22:50:21  <substack>kumavis: looks ok
22:50:30  <Domenic_>othiym23: heh. I think ES6 is cool as long as it's transpilable
22:50:43  <Domenic_>Obviously all of my examples use ES6 syntax extensively
22:50:56  <othiym23>eh, getting traceur or whatever up and running sounds like too much effort for now
22:51:03  <othiym23>Domenic_: what do you use to run ES6?
22:51:14  <Domenic_>es6ify (traceur browserify transform) is pretty painless
22:51:15  <substack>chrisdickinson, juliangruber: example updated https://github.com/substack/attractor#live-updating
22:51:29  <Domenic_>but i've never done traceur + pure node
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22:51:55  <othiym23>kk, I'll put that down as something to investigate when I get a little further along
22:52:04  <othiym23>I'm using tape to build out tests for now
22:53:00  <Domenic_>sweet, I think that's the right level of simplicity
22:53:07  <Domenic_>easy to port to any other framework
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22:54:45  <Domenic_>brb walking to another coffee shop this one is turning into a bar
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23:02:33  <chrisdickinson>substack: interesting! the dom-*-stream version of the 2-way-binding example would be `events(document.body, 'input').pipe(values()).pipe(replace(document.querySelector('#output')))`
23:04:45  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: testling server winIE9 + chrome + firefox + opera + safari + all nightly (rackspace) is down!
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23:17:26  <Domenic_>(back)
23:18:14  <kumavis>(derp) should have thought of this earlier - webworkify protip: monkey patch window with global.window = self
23:18:43  <kumavis>le sigh
23:27:40  <kumavis>make that self.window = self or global.window = global
23:27:46  <kumavis>mixing the two is silly
23:27:50  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 87]
23:29:31  <pfraze>2mb of image assets on an open-source project. Put in repo?
23:30:17  <pfraze>alternative is a separate download, which can be automated during setup
23:31:57  <Domenic_>2 mb seems ok
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23:35:43  <othiym23>Domenic_: should I polyfill in a simple EventTarget, or just use EventEmitters to start?
23:35:48  <othiym23>(i.e. what would you do?)
23:36:19  <Domenic_>othiym23: Hmm probably EventEmitters to start. That part isn't even specced though haha
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23:37:59  <othiym23>that's cool, just trying to avoid sinking a bunch of code into something that'll need to be ripped out later
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23:49:06  <chrisdickinson>based on my understanding of the whatwg/streams proposal, it seems like they'll be friendly to non-string, non-binary data (given a CountBufferingStrategy) -- is this an accurate assessment?
23:50:41  <Domenic_>chrisdickinson: yeah, that's the plan.
23:50:44  <othiym23>Domenic_: behold, the simplest, stupidest starting test suite imaginable: https://github.com/othiym23/streams/commit/630ee509dd94bd101902225035f385a4400e191a
23:50:52  <chrisdickinson>Domenic_: awesome.
23:51:29  <Domenic_>othiym23: w00t!
23:52:03  <othiym23>now to see if I can start porting some of the examples
23:52:14  <othiym23>Domenic_: at what point does it make sense to you for me to turn this into a PR?
23:53:16  <Domenic_>othiym23: Maybe end of day? I dunno, I just don't want to have to make you keep PRing constantly :P
23:53:37  <othiym23>OK, when I hit my stopping point I'll make it into a PR
23:53:51  <othiym23>Domenic_: does that filesystem layout seem unobjectionable to you?
23:54:19  <Domenic_>othiym23: maybe under a subfolder, reference-implementation or something
23:55:22  <othiym23>Domenic_: sounds good
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