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00:04:45  <ogd>groundwater: not unless timoxley wants to fly me out :P
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00:07:18  <timoxley>ogd: http://campjs.com/cfp.html
00:07:39  <timoxley>we have procedures now
00:07:46  <ogd>ooooh
00:10:28  <timoxley>yep, fancy
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00:28:19  <groundwater>timoxley are you running campjs?
00:28:27  <timoxley>groundwater: correct
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00:32:03  <groundwater>timoxley nice!
00:32:44  <groundwater>is it actually camping?
00:33:52  <timoxley>groundwater: haha not unless you want to
00:34:32  <timoxley>there are dorms and cabin-style accommodation
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11:26:25  <dominictarr>sjcl is so annoying
11:26:38  <dominictarr>-ly lacking in usage examples.
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16:09:48  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: problem
16:10:10  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: zeroclipboard stuff introduces a global leak on firefox
16:10:24  <defunctzombie>so when a test fails in firefox in saucelabs
16:10:32  <defunctzombie>you get the assertion and a message about the global leak
16:12:04  <defunctzombie>seems to only happen in saucelabs firefox.. can't get same result on local version
16:13:50  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: the button doesn't work at all on firefox I think
16:14:02  <defunctzombie>this thing needs much more testing before it can be released I think
16:14:07  <defunctzombie>because of how fragile it is
16:14:44  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: :( that sucks
16:14:56  <defunctzombie>yea.. I don't even know what is going on in firefox
16:15:00  <thlorenz>maybe we should go for a textarea for easy copying for now?
16:15:04  <defunctzombie>when I click the button it gives me some syntax error
16:15:23  <thlorenz>weird, we could disable it in firefox if you want
16:15:50  <defunctzombie>is there a way we can print console.error messages instead?
16:16:04  <defunctzombie>then we can just make the browser deal with making the links etc in dev tools
16:17:54  <defunctzombie>nope.. doesn't seem to like doing that..oh well
16:21:09  <defunctzombie>and these "a" tags need to be something other than "a" tags. Firefox keeps wanting to refresh the page when you click them
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16:22:00  <defunctzombie>I don't think we need the click-me functionality.. showing the source line is fine
16:22:08  <defunctzombie>no one is gonna interact with this
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16:27:11  <thlorenz>defunctzombie_zz: ok, so let's come up with an alternative plan then in an issue
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16:35:19  <Domenic_><a> only when you have a meaningful href
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17:18:54  <thlorenz>Domenic_: yeah, we'll probably remove the clickability entirely since showing first is ok
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17:44:38  <pfraze>I was going to complain about Chrome using accept=*/* to fetch a worker script... then I tried FF
17:45:03  <pfraze>accept=text/html D:
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17:47:39  <Domenic_>pfraze: browsers have pretty much given up on conneg
17:48:15  <pfraze>Domenic_: why god why?
17:49:15  <pfraze>they're going to make me put a blinkion
17:49:19  <pfraze>fat finger
17:49:37  <pfraze>put a ?fmt param on it, I hate that pattern
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17:50:40  <Domenic_>pfraze: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Why_not_conneg
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17:53:51  <pfraze>Domenic_: man, I totally disagree with the format neg points. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/a has the `type` attribute so you can create type-specific links, and the rest of it seems to be "eh, nobody uses it"
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17:55:52  <pfraze>ahh well
17:58:30  <thlorenz>Domenic_: Raynos do you think it would make sense to implement whatwg streams in C?
17:58:41  <thlorenz>(asking for a friend)
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18:27:50  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 43]
18:29:58  <Domenic_>thlorenz: I mean, as much as any other JS API...
18:30:57  <thlorenz>Domenic_: ok, just wrote a C event emitter and next step is to create a readable (also from file pipe) and transform stream
18:31:16  <thlorenz>then I can create a streaming parser which is what I really want
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18:31:32  <thlorenz>Domenic_: and I was just wondering what to best model it after
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18:32:46  <Domenic_>thlorenz: oh i see.
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18:33:37  <Domenic_>well the promise usage would be trickier i think
18:33:52  <Domenic_>it's pretty useful to be able to do stuff like whatwgStream.closed.then(() => console.log("done"))
18:33:59  <Domenic_>and have that work even if the stream was closed a minute ago
18:34:11  <thlorenz>yeah I couldn't match that API
18:34:16  <thlorenz>mine would be callback based
18:34:58  <thlorenz>I think it'll probably end up being a hybrid of nodejs streams and whatwg
18:36:04  <thlorenz>since nodejs EventEmitter API is all callback based I was able to match it pretty much 100% https://github.com/thlorenz/ee.c
18:36:25  <Domenic_>yeah the tricky part is being able to get notificaitons for things that happened in the past
18:36:58  <thlorenz>yeah that'd have to be buffered somehow until someone asks for it, like the MAC notification center :)
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18:53:47  <ogd>jlord: https://github.com/rvagg/workshopper/issues/37
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18:59:09  <Raynos>thlorenz: not sure
18:59:20  <Raynos>thlorenz: you mean implementing it in the browser in C
18:59:52  <thlorenz>Raynos: no, I just need a streaming csv parser in C (long story) and for that I need a readable and transform stream
19:00:09  <Raynos>thlorenz: or implementing whatwg/streams in c as a standalone thing for a streams interface in the C community ?
19:00:18  <thlorenz>so I wasn't sure what to base the API on -- probably gonna play by ear and see what makes sense
19:00:26  <Raynos>thlorenz: you can try simple streams
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19:00:39  <Raynos>thlorenz: https://gist.github.com/creationix/5902825
19:00:53  <Raynos>all callbacks, far lower complexity
19:00:53  <thlorenz>Raynos: thanks and yes this is purely for C folks
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19:01:59  <creationix>for transforms like sync parsers, I love the function (emit) { return function (chunk) {} } style
19:02:14  * ralphtheninjajoined
19:02:20  <creationix>it's a decorator for push callbacks
19:02:39  <thlorenz>creationix: I don't see that anywher in this gist
19:02:47  <creationix>it's not part of simple-streams
19:02:50  <thlorenz>also keep in mind doing this in C so I don't have yield :)
19:02:58  <thlorenz>ah, ok
19:02:59  <creationix>but I use it with simple-streams, min-streams, node-streams, etc
19:03:20  <thlorenz>gonna look into those, thanks
19:04:51  <creationix>thlorenz, https://gist.github.com/creationix/f43c29e3e6da09e4f8b6
19:05:15  <creationix>this format is extremely simple and works for anything that uses a state-machine to parse input and emit output
19:05:38  <creationix>it has back-pressure issues if you do the actual work on another thread though, so it only works for blocking parsing
19:05:47  <creationix>but since you're writing this in C, I assume it won't block long
19:05:57  <thlorenz>creationix: that's exactly what I need thanks
19:06:12  <thlorenz>yeah gonna do this in C but IO on different thread via libuv
19:06:16  <creationix>writing adapters for this format are easy for all the streams styles
19:07:19  <creationix>the only assumption they make is that for any given input into the transform, it will emit all the data it can. I usually add (undefined) as a terminator for both input and output
19:07:36  <creationix>many parsers can't emit all the data till they get a EOS from the source
19:07:57  <thlorenz>cool, that seems super simple so I'll just code towards that and worry about more complex things like backp. later
19:08:15  <thlorenz>parser I'm using this for is a csv -> binary parser
19:08:35  <thlorenz>or more like transform and it can do things by line
19:09:13  <creationix>thlorenz, right, so to confirm, you will be parsing sync within this function right?
19:09:19  <thlorenz>also since record length is unified it doesn't need to know how many records there are gonna be, you can deduce that from the length of the file later
19:09:26  <creationix>if you do anything async, then backpressure can't be added later externally
19:09:34  <thlorenz>yes, it's simple string encoding
19:09:43  <creationix>perfect
19:10:06  <thlorenz>yeah, that makes sense. it's also a good idea to start simple and handle other cases once I have a working prototype
19:10:18  <creationix>I write all my nasty state-machine parsing logic in this format, and then have generic adapters that wrap it to handle back-pressure and the specefics of whatever stream format I'm using
19:10:29  <ogd>which is more cross platform, localhost or 127.0.0.1?
19:10:44  <ogd>or 0.0.0.0
19:10:50  * AvianFlu_joined
19:10:57  <creationix>ogd, is this for listening or connecting?
19:11:00  <ogd>connecting
19:11:05  <creationix>127.0.0.1
19:11:12  * AvianFluquit (Disconnected by services)
19:11:15  * AvianFlu_changed nick to AvianFlu
19:11:16  <ogd>sweet thx
19:11:34  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
19:11:47  <creationix>ogd, assuming TCP4 that is
19:11:58  <creationix>I mean TCP over IP4
19:11:58  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: I agree... I just like typing <a> cause it is shorter hahahaha
19:13:19  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: hey - you wanna create an issue in zuul so we can discuss?
19:13:27  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: about what?
19:13:36  <thlorenz>I feel like if clipboard is a problem we should just use a text field
19:13:48  <thlorenz>that autoselects when you click into it
19:14:02  <thlorenz>so then you can simply CMD-C to get it into your clipboard
19:14:21  <thlorenz>so the <a>s become text fields you can easily select and copy
19:14:56  <defunctzombie>why can't you just easily select them now?
19:15:08  <thlorenz>cause legacy :)
19:15:23  <thlorenz>it's because they are anchors in a friggin <pre>
19:15:43  <thlorenz>so stuff is weird - but we could fix that all by revamping the entire thing
19:16:13  * phatedquit (Remote host closed the connection)
19:16:54  <defunctzombie>so lets fix it :)
19:17:00  <defunctzombie>we don't have to use a pre
19:17:05  <defunctzombie>we can do whatever
19:17:07  <thlorenz>cool I'll get right to it
19:17:22  <thlorenz>just wanted to confirm that we'll rip out the clipboard completely
19:17:23  <defunctzombie>I think I used a pre at first cause I was lazy
19:17:26  <defunctzombie>sure
19:17:41  <thlorenz>ok I'll reset back to last release and start over
19:18:03  <thlorenz>at least now I know how a clipboard works (or how it doesn't) :P
19:18:10  <defunctzombie>maybe we can add something to the wiki or readme about how to use with devtools
19:18:20  <defunctzombie>tips and tricks section or something
19:18:33  <thlorenz>yeah, so when you click it'll only select the filename and linenum but not the column
19:18:45  <thlorenz>since column doesn't work with dev tools
19:19:14  <defunctzombie>I would start with minimal behavor.. no clicking, no magic.. just display the trace and source well
19:19:22  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: ditto :)
19:19:46  <thlorenz>rip out all the problematic goodness -- got it Sir :)
19:19:58  <defunctzombie>also, highlight.js 8.0.0 doesn't work on legacy browsers btw
19:20:05  <defunctzombie>I tried to update.. it was a disaster
19:20:12  <thlorenz>and what happens instead
19:20:23  <defunctzombie>they use forEach and some other array shit
19:20:26  <thlorenz>you should at least see the code right?
19:20:29  <defunctzombie>and of course don't use zuul to test
19:20:32  <defunctzombie>so break shit :D
19:21:15  <thlorenz>:) yeah there is only one way to write code for zuul === imperative
19:21:43  <thlorenz>sad though - we can use the shim activate thing though that I did in sourcemaps
19:21:53  <thlorenz>I'll look at that while I'm revamping this
19:22:13  <defunctzombie>yea, we might be able to
19:22:25  <defunctzombie>we have to be careful not to leak any shims
19:22:46  <thlorenz>well the define/undefine thing makes sure of that
19:23:58  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: so I'm gonna reset the master and force push
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19:24:06  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: no
19:24:08  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: no
19:24:09  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: no
19:24:11  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: no
19:24:25  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: ok ok ok ok
19:24:26  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: NEVER FORCE PUSH MASTER OR ANYTHING PUBLIC
19:24:37  <defunctzombie>better to do a commit that reverts the changes
19:24:39  <thlorenz>so you wanna push an undo commit on top?
19:24:39  <defunctzombie>and say why
19:24:43  <defunctzombie>yes
19:24:46  <defunctzombie>absolutely
19:24:51  <thlorenz>ok will do that then :)
19:24:56  * phatedjoined
19:24:56  <defunctzombie>or just delete the stuff you added since it isn't that much
19:25:01  * thlorenzmoves fingers off the red button
19:25:10  <defunctzombie>FORCE PUSH SHOULD BE USED ONLY ONLY IN DESPERATE TIMES
19:25:11  <LOUDBOT>IT'S A FUTUREPILOT GET THE FUCK IN THE DONG
19:25:21  <defunctzombie>yes
19:27:13  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I am working on some cool stuff for zuul too
19:27:19  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: will report test failures back to console
19:27:22  <defunctzombie>from sauce
19:27:27  <defunctzombie>so you can debug easier
19:27:35  <thlorenz>awesome
19:27:36  <defunctzombie>will also report back console.logs (holefully)
19:27:50  <rowbit>Daily usage stats: [developer: 22, free: 1959]
19:27:51  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 29]
19:27:52  <thlorenz>that'll be super useful
19:28:34  <defunctzombie>yea
19:28:35  * phatedquit (Remote host closed the connection)
19:28:36  * thlorenzjust learned that there is such a thing as git revert hash
19:29:53  <ralphtheninja>thlorenz: git ftw :)
19:34:11  <thlorenz>ralphtheninja: :) actually revert is one of the few things that svn also had
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19:35:53  <jcrugzz>oh you straight revert the hash and it will just splice it from history? i must not have spent enough time trying to revert something and just made a new commit lol
19:37:05  <thlorenz>jcrugzz: it results in this: https://github.com/defunctzombie/zuul/commits/master
19:37:25  <thlorenz>so it creates a kind of undo everything commit
19:37:56  <jcrugzz>super nice though
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19:39:32  <thlorenz>yep especially if ppl are afraid that others based stuff off something you just pushed a day ago on a repo with ~2 active contributors :P
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19:43:24  <jcrugzz>haha indeed
19:50:39  <DTrejo>coding wrappers around fluent APIs is really annoying
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20:19:59  <grncdr>DTrejo: sounds like you need macros ;)
20:20:07  <grncdr>or HOF possibly
20:20:34  <DTrejo>I need project maintainers to write simple versions of their libraries first, then write wrappers that add fliency
20:20:36  <DTrejo>fluency
20:20:38  <ralphtheninja>thlorenz: oh, good to know .. started with svn today for the first time
20:20:50  <thlorenz>ralphtheninja: sorry
20:20:59  <ralphtheninja>thlorenz: because of work, i'd much rather git if I could choose
20:21:15  <grncdr>DTrejo: what project?
20:21:19  <ralphtheninja>thlorenz: much rather use*
20:21:31  <thlorenz>ralphtheninja: sorry I had to use that thing for my previous work as well -- branching is a pain
20:21:36  <grncdr>ralphtheninja: have you considered git svn?
20:21:44  * grncdruses git svn all the time
20:22:04  <ralphtheninja>grncdr: nope .. I have heard of it but never used it
20:22:12  <grncdr>it's actually really nice
20:22:19  <DTrejo>grncdr: googleapis module
20:22:21  <ralphtheninja>give me a quik run down?
20:22:24  <ralphtheninja>quick
20:22:37  <grncdr>sure, it's git, but you can use an svn remote
20:22:51  <grncdr>so you have a couple of special git svn commands for dealing with the svn remote
20:22:57  <grncdr>but everything locally is still a normal git repo
20:23:04  <ralphtheninja>ok sounds really great
20:23:11  <grncdr>git svn dcommit (push) and git svn rebase (pull)
20:23:23  <grncdr>it ships as part of git since forever
20:23:34  <ralphtheninja>so I could like check out something with svs .. start like start git on top of that checkout
20:23:53  <ralphtheninja>cool, have to check it out tomorrow
20:23:56  <grncdr>you would do `git svn checkout —stdlayout $svn_url`
20:24:06  <grncdr>`git help svn` will get you rolling :)
20:24:16  <ralphtheninja>grncdr: awesome, thanks! :)
20:24:25  <grncdr>no worries
20:24:53  <ralphtheninja>grncdr: does it have any quirks .. stuff I shouldn't try to do etc
20:25:17  <grncdr>the only quirk I've really run into is around empty directories
20:25:25  <grncdr>I don't know if it supports svn remotes either
20:25:36  <grncdr>(svn's way of referring to another repo)
20:26:10  <ralphtheninja>aha you mean like you could setup multiple svn remotes just like with git remote add
20:26:17  <grncdr>no
20:26:29  <grncdr>sorry, svn remotes are like git's submodules
20:26:52  <grncdr>so in svn, you can be like: 'also check out this other repo path in this directory'
20:27:06  <grncdr>git svn *might* support it, but I don't know for sure
20:27:10  <ralphtheninja>aye, cvs is similar
20:27:51  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 57]
20:27:51  <grncdr>I haven't run into that many places that use svn remotes heavily, so it's never been an issue for me
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20:42:21  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: pushed my changes to master
20:43:03  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: will wait on your changes to test more and then publish a new version probably tomorrow
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20:47:32  * defunctzombiechanged nick to defunctzombie_zz
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20:59:13  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: ok 90% done over here
20:59:31  <thlorenz>will rebase off your master and let you know when it's up
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21:27:51  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 33]
21:31:06  * indexzeropart
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21:34:46  <thlorenz>defunctzombie_zz: https://github.com/defunctzombie/zuul/pull/39
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22:05:31  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: that's exactly what I'm getting too:https://travis-ci.org/defunctzombie/zuul/builds/17508144#L1162
22:05:49  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: yea..very strange
22:05:55  <defunctzombie>seems to be cause the .eval thing fails
22:06:00  <defunctzombie>if you look at your account
22:06:02  * kenperkinsquit (Client Quit)
22:06:04  <defunctzombie>https://saucelabs.com/tests/9e4c3b83bee5484a9c51f67ea9e0b2e3
22:06:11  <defunctzombie>you should see something similar to that for one of the browsers
22:06:16  <thlorenz>what .eval thing?
22:06:46  <defunctzombie>in SauceBrowser.js
22:06:49  <defunctzombie>browser.eval
22:07:03  <thlorenz>ah, ok what can we do about that?
22:07:04  <defunctzombie>this is how the remote browser is asked to return some things back to us
22:07:10  <defunctzombie>not sure..
22:07:12  <defunctzombie>thinking about it
22:07:38  <jesusabdullah>this is zuul you're rambling about? :)
22:07:50  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: do you want me to surround the input focus/select thing with a try catch?
22:07:54  <jesusabdullah>I've been so preoccupied with moving I've hardly touched code these last few weeks :(
22:08:06  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I want it just tested in IE :)
22:08:07  <jesusabdullah>I *did* get that twitterbot running but, dang, that was like a 2 hr project
22:08:12  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: it may work.. I dunno
22:08:15  <thlorenz>so in IE it would just not select but all else would work
22:08:16  <defunctzombie>I just want to make sure
22:08:31  <defunctzombie>I got your code.. so I can test it
22:08:39  <thlorenz>ok, thanks
22:10:00  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: we have no stacktrace in legacy IE so I think it will be ok
22:10:10  <thlorenz>there ya go :)
22:10:20  * ralphtheninjaquit (Quit: leaving)
22:10:43  <thlorenz>all we could have done is just wrap with try catch and loose some functionality anyways, at least the input box would show up though
22:11:53  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: yes, talking about zuul -- adding some cool new features
22:12:01  <jesusabdullah>gg
22:12:35  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: so I got all tests to pass on my machine via saucelabs
22:12:42  <defunctzombie>excellent
22:13:00  <thlorenz>only the last one on travis is failing
22:13:13  <thlorenz>but I bet if we merge into master and get lucky on the rerun ....
22:13:46  <kumavis>made a baby forecaster
22:13:52  <kumavis>node baby.js
22:13:52  <kumavis>9.60% chance of baby from now to March 1st
22:13:52  <kumavis>0.0007% chance of baby today
22:14:05  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I merged your first commit into master
22:14:10  <kumavis>thanks mikolalysenko
22:14:19  <kumavis>for the erf
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22:14:38  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I need to find a way to reproduce this error 13 shit
22:14:56  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: cool and yes
22:15:09  <thlorenz>looks like that webdriver thing needs fixing
22:15:14  * sveisvei_changed nick to sveisvei
22:16:13  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: do you want me to redo the fixes (i.e. console)
22:16:29  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I did the console fix
22:16:35  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: made it look like it never happened ;)
22:16:53  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: via --fixup?
22:16:59  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: --amend
22:17:07  <defunctzombie>after I cherry picked
22:17:20  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: so I can reproduce the error
22:17:20  <thlorenz>ah makes sense since that is now the last commit -- thanks
22:17:29  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: it happens when the eval fails
22:17:42  <defunctzombie>I think because of how the eval works there may be a race condition
22:17:45  <defunctzombie>or something going on
22:17:50  <thlorenz>weird - lets file an issue
22:18:04  <defunctzombie>I dunno how to even make it reliably fail
22:18:09  <defunctzombie>I only know how to make eval fail
22:18:22  <defunctzombie>like by using an undefined or something
22:18:30  <defunctzombie>but to prove race condition will be tricky
22:20:04  <thlorenz>yeah, it always is maybe we can just think about a fix and PR
22:21:19  * AvianFluquit (Remote host closed the connection)
22:22:20  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: oh fuck.. I know
22:22:32  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: the eval might run before that obj exists on the page
22:23:01  <defunctzombie>in the case of a slow load or whatnot
22:23:12  <defunctzombie>need to check first that window.zuul_msg_bus exists
22:27:51  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 58]
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22:32:24  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: any last items you want to make it into this release
22:32:35  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: will make a 1.5.0 soon since it fixes this annoying bug
22:33:03  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: jesus christ I HATE THE WEBDRIVER MODULE
22:33:31  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: well that highlightjs shim wrap would be nice I guess
22:33:41  <thlorenz>but aside from that we are good
22:33:44  * jxsonquit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
22:33:50  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: meh, only if we care to update highlight.js
22:33:55  <defunctzombie>to v8
22:33:59  <defunctzombie>which I dunno if we really do
22:34:00  <thlorenz>I decided to hold off on the open entire file thing since it's so quick to open in devtools now
22:34:06  <defunctzombie>k
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22:37:16  <thlorenz>hey you forgot the margin fix I think
22:37:32  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: https://github.com/defunctzombie/zuul/commit/41c00f03be65a20d8ee094049e95c323fd286d88
22:37:51  <thlorenz>in zuul.css
22:38:03  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: haha damn
22:38:11  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: this is what happens when you co-mingle commits :)
22:38:21  <thlorenz>I know - my bad :(
22:38:29  <defunctzombie>push the fix to master
22:38:32  <thlorenz>I was sure you'd merge both
22:38:33  <thlorenz>ok
22:38:41  <defunctzombie>luckily css errors aren't fatal
22:39:39  * coderzachquit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
22:39:41  <thlorenz>done
22:39:45  <defunctzombie>cool
22:39:50  <defunctzombie>time for an awesome 1.5.1 hahaha
22:39:54  <defunctzombie>back to back releases
22:40:58  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: yeah, I do those all the time
22:41:01  <defunctzombie>yep
22:41:18  <thlorenz>btw kept the highlightjs fix around in a separate branch so we can apply it later
22:41:29  <defunctzombie>cool
22:42:26  <defunctzombie>ok.. enough zuul for today.. back to ripple shit
22:42:48  <defunctzombie>owen1: I have been making ripple run without any build steps
22:42:57  <defunctzombie>owen1: so it is easier to get started with it
22:43:04  <defunctzombie>also removing some bullshit they had in there
22:43:56  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: how did the talk go?
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23:08:16  <owen1>defunctzombie: awesome! any link?
23:11:14  * anoemiquit (Remote host closed the connection)
23:14:59  <defunctzombie>owen1: https://github.com/defunctzombie/ripple-emulator
23:15:02  <defunctzombie>work in progress
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23:24:06  <owen1>wow. nice
23:24:18  <owen1>defunctzombie: how is the app going?
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23:24:56  <owen1>i remember you were trying to reuse some existing browserify libs from the non-mobile website
23:26:50  <defunctzombie>owen1: it is going well
23:26:56  <defunctzombie>owen1: re-use was awesome
23:26:58  <defunctzombie>lots of libs reused
23:27:50  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 45]
23:28:03  * AvianFluquit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
23:28:43  <owen1>cool. how do u organize your client-side? any backbone/angular or something lightweight like https://moot.it/riotjs/ ?
23:29:09  <owen1>defunctzombie: ^
23:29:52  <defunctzombie>owen1: I organize it myself and use https://github.com/defunctzombie/reactive
23:30:13  <defunctzombie>everything else I have found was either too heavyweight and too much code or too lightweight and didn't do anything really useful
23:30:29  <defunctzombie>I have a heavily forked version from the original tho
23:32:25  <owen1>defunctzombie: interesting. is it similar to facebox react? also, do u use jquery?
23:32:34  <defunctzombie>no jquery
23:32:38  <defunctzombie>jquery will make you write bad things
23:32:46  <defunctzombie>it is way simpler than facebook's thing
23:32:50  <defunctzombie>and I personally think better
23:32:56  <defunctzombie>facebook's thing is too strange and complex
23:32:58  <defunctzombie>I don't like it
23:33:30  <owen1>how do u send messages between components in your client side code? node event emitters?
23:33:59  <defunctzombie>depends
23:34:10  <defunctzombie>but yes generally some sort of event emitter
23:34:14  <defunctzombie>usually the emitter module
23:34:16  <defunctzombie>not the node one
23:34:21  <defunctzombie>but does the same thing
23:34:41  <owen1>is it on github somewhere?
23:35:23  <defunctzombie>owen1: yea, and on npm
23:35:28  <defunctzombie>owen1: emitter-component
23:35:40  <owen1>and why not using the node event emitter since u already using browserify
23:36:00  <defunctzombie>owen1: I like to be explicit (don't like the auto include stuff browserify does)
23:36:06  <defunctzombie>owen1: gives me control over my deps
23:36:08  <owen1>oh. i got scared of anything that has -component in it's name
23:36:45  <owen1>since it's not always play nice with browserify (at least that's what i thought when tried using one)
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23:36:59  <defunctzombie>owen1: I make them play nice :)
23:37:04  <defunctzombie>I have access to all component repos
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23:37:10  <defunctzombie>so the ones I use I make sure work
23:37:47  <owen1>do u have some MVP and emit events from the view to the presenter and from the model to the presenter?
23:38:32  <defunctzombie>hm... kinda
23:38:37  <defunctzombie>I use bamboo module for models
23:38:42  <defunctzombie>and those emit events when they change
23:38:46  <defunctzombie>the views detect those events
23:39:00  <defunctzombie>as for click events and other stuff, the reactive views have a way to bind those when making them
23:39:08  <defunctzombie>so what I typically have is some sort of "View" class
23:39:17  <defunctzombie>which manages the reactive instance it creates
23:39:24  <defunctzombie>and optionally takes model
23:39:28  <defunctzombie>(depending on the purpose)
23:42:55  <owen1>interesting
23:43:06  * jxsonjoined
23:43:41  <owen1>defunctzombie: take a look at this - https://github.com/azer/brick/tree/dev/test/fixtures
23:44:07  <owen1>it's nice to have your js/css/html in one place in a component
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23:44:34  <defunctzombie>I do't like build steps
23:44:36  <defunctzombie>*don't
23:44:49  <defunctzombie>also, I do keep my html with my views
23:44:57  <defunctzombie>I use a browserify transform to require html
23:45:10  <defunctzombie>for css I do different things because css is special
23:47:16  <defunctzombie>the ideas in stuff like this are good, but I like the flexibility of just using the pieces
23:47:24  <defunctzombie>cause sometimes i need to put them together different ways
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23:50:06  <owen1>defunctzombie: the only problem is on bigger teams. u have to educate everyone on your approach
23:50:14  <defunctzombie>owen1: yes
23:50:18  <defunctzombie>wiki pages
23:50:20  <defunctzombie>or existing code
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23:55:04  <Raynos>owen1: agreed, but no build steps
23:55:23  <Raynos>owen1: I write my html in JS (hyperscript) and my CSS in JS (hypercss)
23:55:27  <Raynos>all problems solved
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23:56:38  <defunctzombie>don't listen to raynos :p
23:59:36  <owen1>Raynos: agreed with what?