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00:05:22  <marcello3d>isaacs: how goes the new company? :)
00:20:40  <rvagg>brycebaril: if you want dominic, he's in Singapore at timoxley's place, asleep I'd guess
00:20:55  <isaacs>marcello3d: great! been a crazy busy week, and we're only halfway through it :)
00:21:32  <marcello3d>do you have a space and all lined up? I saw you hired a few people on the tweeters
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00:25:03  <Raynos>How do people deal with mocha / testing frameworks which use `assert` or any assertion mechanism that throws
00:25:16  <Raynos>I find my test cases are not throw safe and dont do cleanup and cause cascading test failures
00:25:39  <Raynos>tape doesnt suffer from this problem because my tape code doesnt throw and test cases run to completion, including teardown
00:27:38  <timoxley>Raynos: perhaps mocha should force teardowns in the uncaughtException handler
00:27:46  <Raynos>but you cant force teardowns
00:27:53  * jxsonquit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
00:28:13  <Raynos>is there a jsfiddle for node yet ?
00:28:59  * AvianFluquit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:32:14  <brycebaril>rvagg: I was guessing he was asleep :)
00:32:17  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.69(free7)
00:32:25  <Raynos>timoxley: https://gist.github.com/Raynos/8700273
00:33:15  <brycebaril>rvagg: one of those "maybe he's awake and will merge my pr in the next few minutes" vs having to work around it until he pushes, no biggie :)
00:36:50  <mikolalysenko>Raynos: there is requirebin
00:36:58  <mikolalysenko>http://requirebin.com/
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00:43:22  <timoxley>brycebaril: he has risen.
00:43:31  <timoxley>not sure on ETA
00:43:54  <brycebaril>timoxley: thanks, but really no hurry!
00:45:08  <timoxley>Raynos: generally with mocha you'll spit your test so the setup and the teardown aren't all in the .it
00:46:09  <timoxley>it sets up some kind of guards I think using process.on('uncaughtError'
00:46:55  <timoxley>which should allow tests to continue, but I do remember having the exact problem you're describing.
00:47:34  <timoxley>I run the teardowns before and after the tests
00:47:47  <timoxley>and listen on 0 instead of on a particular port
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00:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 11]
00:52:36  <Raynos>miko: requirebin doesnt have http
00:53:03  <Raynos>timoxley: yes you can place your stuff so that setup is in the magic before block & teardown is in the magic after block and then you isolate the damage of not writing throw safe code does
00:53:36  <Raynos>but then your coupled to the DSL statemachine rather then just use functions and compositions
00:55:04  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
00:55:32  <timoxley>Raynos use t.plan(), t.end() etc and you're coupled to the DSL statemachine rather then just use functions and compositions
00:55:35  <pkrumins>anyone wants to advertise on catonmat?
00:56:11  <Raynos>timoxley: t.plan() isnt needed
00:56:14  <Raynos>t.end() is needed
00:56:23  <Raynos>but using test(string, fn) is being tied to a DSL
00:56:28  <Raynos>its just a far simpler state machine
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00:57:02  <rvagg>pkrumins: do you take dogecoins?
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00:57:16  <rvagg>pkrumins: cause, like jden_, I'm a thousandaire
00:57:47  <rvagg>when I'm not accidentally transferring them to stale addresses'..
00:57:48  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.27.70(dev-ie6-1)
00:57:53  <pkrumins>rvagg: i don't take dogecoins :)
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01:15:00  <Raynos>timoxley: https://gist.github.com/Raynos/8700797
01:15:10  <grncdr>who is the glasses meat?
01:15:19  <jory>meeeeeeeeeeeeee
01:15:34  <Raynos>I've been thinking about this more & more. I just want an `assert` style interface into `TapWriter(process.stdout)`
01:16:09  <timoxley>Raynos: ooo
01:16:12  <timoxley>that is nice
01:16:35  <grncdr>hi jory!
01:16:39  <rvagg>yeah, there's some nice simplicity in there
01:17:04  <Raynos>timoxley: the actual test dsl is just a queue
01:17:08  <jory>hullo!
01:17:08  <timoxley>Raynos: but remember what happened to gens
01:17:53  <Raynos>timoxley: https://github.com/Raynos/tape-generators/blob/master/test/index.js
01:18:14  <timoxley>oh
01:18:16  <timoxley>god
01:18:19  <timoxley>that
01:18:22  <timoxley>yep
01:18:32  * timoxleysold.
01:18:33  <Raynos>8 months ago XD I already did it
01:18:35  <Raynos>god, 8 months
01:18:45  * phatedquit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:18:47  <Raynos>IVE BEEN WRITING CALLBACKS FOR 8 MONTHS FOR NO REASON
01:18:47  <LOUDBOT>HOW DO YE NOT KNOW OF DIGGERNICKS
01:18:51  <Raynos>>:@
01:19:15  <timoxley>Raynos: I think the trick is to give it a sexy name
01:19:28  <Raynos>well i need a better thing then tape first
01:19:36  <Raynos>tape is too complex
01:19:38  <Raynos>:D
01:19:44  <Raynos>I need a bare bones tap writer
01:19:49  <Raynos>thats the hardest part
01:20:08  <Raynos>assert-tap2 needs to eixst first
01:20:54  <grncdr>Raynos: what's hard about a barebones tap writer
01:20:56  <grncdr>?
01:21:00  <Raynos>its not hard
01:21:03  <Raynos>i just havnt written it yet
01:21:40  <Raynos>grncdr: the hard part is landing https://github.com/substack/tape/pull/18 and https://github.com/substack/tape/pull/17
01:22:11  <Raynos>then rewriting assert-tap on top of it
01:22:22  <grncdr>oh those are old
01:22:24  <grncdr>dang
01:22:36  <isaacs>marcello3d: We don't have space yet. But we will soon, hopefully.
01:23:27  <Raynos>grncdr: I want to not rewrite tape, i want to pull stuff out of it and build on top of a common base
01:23:34  <Raynos>that requires redoing PR 18 & 17
01:24:07  <grncdr>isaacs: did you see my Q earlier regarding transfering ownership of a package?
01:24:27  <isaacs>grncdr: do the disputes.html thing
01:24:37  <isaacs>grncdr: https://npmjs.org/doc/misc/npm-disputes.html
01:25:08  <grncdr>reviewing...
01:25:16  <grncdr>oh so if I just CC you on this email that's cool?
01:25:19  <isaacs>grncdr: but yes, the current owner, or a server admin, must do `npm owner add grncdr $packagename`
01:25:22  <isaacs>grncdr: yes, that's fine
01:25:26  <isaacs>grncdr: that's how it's done :)
01:25:41  <isaacs>grncdr: i give it 4 weeks before stepping in, usually. if you and the other party can work it out, then that's generally best.
01:25:59  <isaacs>cc me on it so that i see the exchange if we have to step in, and so that it's clear that i'm seeing the exchange.
01:26:03  <grncdr>ok, so I could portentially just ask them to do the `npm owner` command themselves and that would be equivalent?
01:26:10  <defunctzombie>Raynos: tape/tap etc all is a dumb way to look at it.. test output has nothing to do with test instrumentation/code
01:26:20  <isaacs>grncdr: yes, that should be the request you make in your email to them cc'ing me
01:26:28  <grncdr>I wasn't sure if the original author had some sort of "super-privilege" or not
01:26:28  <defunctzombie>trying output to code is really annoying to deal with
01:26:29  <grncdr>cool
01:26:29  <Raynos>defunctzombie: ? whats a better approach
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01:26:34  <grncdr>thanks isaacs
01:26:35  <isaacs>grncdr: nope.
01:26:36  <Raynos>defunctzombie: https://gist.github.com/Raynos/8700797
01:26:43  <isaacs>grncdr: "super privilege" = server admin
01:26:51  <isaacs>grncdr: but otherwise, there's just "owner" and "not an owner"
01:26:58  <isaacs>owners have rights, not-an-owner's dong
01:27:00  <isaacs>*don't
01:27:04  <defunctzombie>Raynos: no
01:27:06  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I basically need an assert like module that prints test assertion output to STDOUT
01:27:13  <defunctzombie>Raynos: stop having your assertions output things
01:27:14  <grncdr>isaacs: it read better before you corrected it :P
01:27:19  <defunctzombie>Raynos: makes it really annoying to hook into
01:27:24  <defunctzombie>Raynos: when we write stuff like zuul
01:27:31  <Raynos>defunctzombie: whats the better alternative ?
01:27:44  <isaacs>grncdr: you dont' have rights to anyone else's dong, no matter what you own.
01:27:49  <defunctzombie>Raynos: what every other testing framework/lib does
01:27:56  <Raynos>defunctzombie: what do they do ?
01:27:58  * isaacswould be booted out of any reputable room by now..
01:27:59  <defunctzombie>Raynos: give me a way to trigger your tests and provide a repoter
01:28:09  <defunctzombie>or get events from a reporter, something
01:28:13  <grncdr>isaacs: that IRC quote will come back to haunt you :P
01:28:21  <Raynos>defunctzombie: the way to trigger tests is `node testFile.js`
01:28:23  <isaacs>haha
01:28:24  <substack>defunctzombie: console.log = function () {}
01:28:24  <defunctzombie>Raynos: then I can write whatever output I want
01:28:27  <substack>that's your hook
01:28:29  <defunctzombie>no
01:28:32  <defunctzombie>that is a terrible hook
01:28:32  <isaacs>i stand by my topos
01:28:37  <isaacs>*typos
01:28:39  <isaacs>and tapas
01:28:41  <defunctzombie>because it makes it really damn annoying to have my own console logs
01:28:41  <isaacs>mmmmm.... tapas
01:28:43  <defunctzombie>to debug things
01:28:48  <grncdr>"isaacs *pretends* to be all socially-conscious… but here he is making *dong* jokes"
01:28:51  <substack>defunctzombie: tap doesn't care
01:28:57  <defunctzombie>tap is stupid
01:29:00  <defunctzombie>that is why it doesn't care
01:29:05  * grncdrwants you to read the above in the class political smear campaign voice
01:29:09  <isaacs>grncdr: ahem. the preferred nomenclature is "dick jokes", thank you very much.
01:29:10  <grncdr>*classic
01:29:10  <Raynos>defunctzombie: just `child_process.spawn(thing)` or `require(thing)`
01:29:12  <substack>stupid is good
01:29:15  <substack>stupid is simple
01:29:33  <Raynos>defunctzombie: but having a way to require(thing) without STDOUT might be nice
01:29:33  <substack>stupid is hard to mess up
01:29:52  <defunctzombie>tap is so stupid that if I console.log('#foobar') faucet will think it is a test
01:30:02  <substack>defunctzombie: faucet is not very smart either
01:30:19  <substack>so just don't console.log('#foobar')
01:30:19  <substack>problem solved
01:30:25  <defunctzombie>out of all the various frameworks I instrumented in zuul
01:30:39  <defunctzombie>I was least pleased with instrumenting tape
01:30:50  <substack>because you didn't just console.log = function () {}
01:30:56  <substack>that would have been really easy
01:31:08  <defunctzombie>what would have been easy is just having a reporter
01:31:20  <defunctzombie>that was out of band and didn't take over my console
01:31:36  <defunctzombie>tape like to think it is so important that it should output all over my console, it isn't
01:32:11  <Raynos>defunctzombie: So I want to build a tap reporter that can be hooked into but defaults into reporting to stdout on next tick
01:32:12  <defunctzombie>I do not recommend using tape/tap because a test framework has nothing to do with output
01:32:31  <defunctzombie>even tho mocha is like 10000x times more complex with all the reporters and shit you don't need
01:32:36  <defunctzombie>it was still easier to instrument
01:32:47  <Raynos>a test framework does two things, flow control & reporting
01:33:04  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I want a test library
01:33:11  <defunctzombie>Raynos: the CLI tool can do the reporting
01:33:19  <defunctzombie>but the library should only do 1 thing.. flow control
01:33:20  <Raynos>i want to write simple tests
01:33:33  <defunctzombie>it doesn't get more simple than test('name', function);
01:33:35  <Raynos>defunctzombie: https://github.com/Raynos/tape-generators/blob/master/test/index.js
01:33:36  <ogd>defunctzombie: you dont like tape because it doesnt suppress stdout?
01:33:53  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I want to write tests like that, how do I decouple reporting ?
01:33:55  <defunctzombie>ogd: I don't like tape because it spews onto stdout
01:34:18  <defunctzombie>Raynos: assert throws, this is very simple
01:34:31  <ogd>defunctzombie: 'spews'?
01:34:31  <Raynos>defunctzombie: assert throwing is broken, i dont want --bail functionality
01:34:51  <defunctzombie>Raynos: it isn't --bail for all tests.. just within that one
01:35:04  <Raynos>that breaks teardown logic
01:35:05  <defunctzombie>Raynos: who cares... you do want --bail cause if one assert failed likely everything else is fucked
01:35:11  <Raynos>although teardown logic is broken anyway
01:35:15  <defunctzombie>it doesn't break anything
01:35:31  <Raynos>defunctzombie: https://gist.github.com/Raynos/8700273#file-failure-js-L25
01:35:42  <defunctzombie>ogd: it provides no way to get results without it printing everything to console
01:36:52  <ogd>defunctzombie: how about a mode that wrote json formatted results to stdout instead/
01:37:06  <defunctzombie>ogd: nothing should be on stdout from the test library
01:37:08  <ogd>defunctzombie: or if you are using it programmatically just gave you an object stream
01:37:11  <defunctzombie>that is for the runner to decide
01:37:37  <defunctzombie>Raynos: meh.. not really convinced.. in critical cases I would just have a followup separate test
01:37:38  * marcello3dchanged nick to marcello3d_zzZ
01:37:41  <ogd>defunctzombie: so you are complaining that tape is both a library and a runner that arent decoupled
01:37:45  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I often have separate tests to start servers
01:38:03  <defunctzombie>ogd: mostly the part about the library being hightly coupled to output, yea
01:38:14  <defunctzombie>I don't care that the tape module has a CLI to run tests
01:38:15  <defunctzombie>that is great
01:38:29  <defunctzombie>but that CLI should be the thing that determines test output, not the library
01:38:49  <defunctzombie>the library should just emit events or whatever reporter style
01:39:07  <defunctzombie>Raynos: if server.close had a bug you wouldn't close it anyway... so it doesn't make that some crazy case
01:39:10  <ogd>i dont disagree but tape covers all of my use cases so i have no complaints
01:39:12  <defunctzombie>Raynos: when the process ends your server will close
01:39:32  <defunctzombie>ogd: I was just mostly commenting on what I thought to be better
01:39:47  <defunctzombie>ogd: don't expect something to change about it.. just speaking from having instrumented various testing frameworks
01:40:07  <defunctzombie>every other framework provided a reporter interface and did not write to console.log (in browser) and I liked that
01:40:26  <defunctzombie>most of those comments are from experience setting things up in a browser environment
01:44:16  <defunctzombie>using npm lately: http://imgur.com/r/reactiongifs/e9pJfPn
01:44:42  * phatedjoined
01:45:47  <Raynos>defunctzombie: my problem is I have multiple test blocks creating servers on the same ports
01:45:50  <Raynos>ugh ports, ffff ports
01:45:56  <Raynos>Ok ffff ports is the reason for my errors
01:45:59  <defunctzombie>use auto ports?
01:46:01  <Raynos>I should go and bunch something in the face
01:46:05  <Raynos>whats auto ports ?
01:46:09  <defunctzombie>port 0
01:46:15  <defunctzombie>os will assign
01:46:19  <Raynos>really ?
01:46:25  <Raynos>do i get the real port in the listening callback ?
01:46:28  <defunctzombie>yes... really
01:46:29  <defunctzombie>yes
01:46:33  <defunctzombie>socket.address().port
01:46:36  <Raynos>:D
01:46:49  <Raynos>can i do server.address().port synchronously ?
01:46:53  <defunctzombie>I never hardcode ports in tests (at least I try not to)
01:46:54  <defunctzombie>yes
01:46:59  <defunctzombie>in the listen callback
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01:48:49  <Raynos>god damn it
01:48:56  <Raynos>ok, Ill go fix the real problem in my tests
01:49:00  <Raynos>which is these fucking ports
01:49:09  * thealphanerdquit (Quit: thealphanerd)
01:49:18  <defunctzombie>ports... how do they work
01:49:32  <Raynos>i was also thinking about having some kind of magic thing that cleans up http servers on throw exceptions :D
01:49:33  <Raynos>using domains
01:49:39  <Raynos>or async listener
01:49:50  <Raynos>"you threw and left a dangling http server, let me just close() that for you"
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01:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 19]
01:54:23  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I usually either clean them up or whatever
01:54:27  <defunctzombie>Raynos: tests end they die
01:56:14  * defunctzombiechanged nick to defunctzombie_zz
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02:27:11  <Raynos>UGH WHY DIS SO HARD
02:27:11  <LOUDBOT>I TRANSFERRED THE MIBBIT TAB FROM ONE WINDOW TO ANOTHER
02:27:17  <Raynos>CODE Y SO HARD
02:27:17  <LOUDBOT>WELL I DONT HAVE THEM RIGHT NWO I HAVE HAD THEM IN SERIES
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02:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 11]
02:54:04  <thlorenz>substack: figured this out today: http://thlorenz.com/blog/live-editing-browserify
02:54:31  <thlorenz>that's one of the last things that ppl may have been missing when working with browserify
02:56:02  <substack>thlorenz: you should make a wiki page for blog articles
02:56:04  <substack>and add your post
02:56:17  <thlorenz>yeah, I already suggested that to johnkpaul
02:56:27  <thlorenz>will do right now :)
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03:01:03  <thlorenz>substack: looks like wiki will have large overlap with: http://browserify.org/articles
03:01:22  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: substack that's hot
03:01:31  <grncdr>thlorenz: that is really cool
03:01:56  <thlorenz>:) defunctzombie of course that'll be part of a zuul tutorial as well
03:01:58  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: another tool to add is nodemon which you can use to just trigger changes on any files
03:02:04  <defunctzombie>:)
03:03:01  <thlorenz>now it's like: Click Cmd-C, CMD-Shift-J, CMD-O, CMD-V -- quick edit, CMD-S, refresh -- test fixed :)
03:03:39  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: add it to the wiki, although I don't think it's directly related to browserify
03:03:43  * fronxjoined
03:04:17  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: it isn't
03:04:27  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: but I have used it to trigger rebuilds before
03:04:34  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: grncdr: if you wan't you can RT https://twitter.com/thlorenz/status/428721333242200064 to get this info out there
03:04:37  <defunctzombie>it is more generic, ive used it for stylus, browserify and such
03:04:51  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: me too, and supervisor, but only if server side code changes
03:05:07  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: for server side code node-dev is the best
03:05:13  <thlorenz>cause keeping server up on client side change and refresh bundle is faster
03:05:32  <thlorenz>ah, I'll have to look into that
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03:24:50  <thlorenz>substack: https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/wiki/browserify-in-the-blogosphere
03:25:01  <thlorenz>tried to divide into sections, not sure if that makes sense
03:25:24  <grncdr>defunctzombie: I remembered the thing I didn't like about nodemon, it expects it's argument to be a node script in your local dir
03:25:48  <grncdr>like you can't say `nodemon —watch client browserify`
03:25:59  <grncdr>or I'm using it wrong
03:26:25  <grncdr>but it seems like it tries to do `node $PWD/$cmd` for everything
03:26:26  <defunctzombie>grncdr: "--exec" option
03:26:35  <grncdr>ahh!
03:26:37  <defunctzombie>grncdr: lets you execute arbitrary things
03:26:51  <defunctzombie>grncdr:
03:26:52  <defunctzombie>devwatch:
03:26:52  <defunctzombie> nodemon -w js -w css -e js,styl,html --exec "make assets"
03:26:56  <grncdr>just saw the "Running non-node scripts" section in the readme
03:26:58  <defunctzombie>I have that makefile rule for my cordova project
03:27:26  <grncdr>yeah what I'm actually going to do is nodemon [—watch blah] npm run <script>
03:27:42  <grncdr>but that's the option I was looking for :)
03:27:53  <defunctzombie>yea.. I prefer the make assets thing cause then you can setup the targets in your makefile
03:28:00  <defunctzombie>and it will rebuild only what needs to be rebuilt
03:28:11  <defunctzombie>but yea.. same idea
03:28:25  <grncdr>I'm avoiding a dep on make
03:28:52  <grncdr>I'm pretty sure at least one windows & java 4ever type developer is going to checkout this project
03:29:05  <grncdr>so the more I can do with just npm, the better
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03:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 14]
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04:29:41  <defunctzombie>glorious victory! the jquery has been purged from my site!
04:29:49  <defunctzombie>100% jquery free
04:29:55  <defunctzombie>should make a sticker for that
04:31:04  <jcrugzz>defunctzombie: no moar bandaids
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04:43:40  <dominictarr>isaacs, hey, https is quite hard to use, because it doesn't give nice error message if the CA is not valid, it just ignores it.
04:44:49  <dominictarr>(I had my server not work right just because I gave it a single buffer (with cert chain concatenated) instead of an array)
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04:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 9]
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05:17:52  <isaacs>dominictarr: yeah, you should post a bug about that :)
05:18:02  <isaacs>dominictarr: you mean https server in node, right?
05:18:27  <dominictarr>yes
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05:24:41  <grncdr>isaacs: is improving npm search & discoverability going to be a priority for npm inc?
05:24:46  * grncdrreally hopes so
05:25:16  <isaacs>grncdr: yes, that is a plan.
05:25:55  <isaacs>grncdr: we have a bunch of things to do that fall into the category of "let people give us money for stuff" and then a bunch of other things that fall in the category of "make even more people want to use npm even more
05:25:56  <grncdr>on that note, does anybody know of an existing module that transforms a text stream with a prefix before every line?
05:26:38  <substack>sed!
05:26:42  <isaacs>grncdr: i know of one called 'sed' that's installed by default on Unix.
05:26:46  <substack>haha
05:26:55  <isaacs>awww, substack did the "small module" version of my "framework-style" joke
05:26:58  <isaacs>;P
05:27:03  <grncdr>isaacs: substack: yes that is good, on *unix*
05:27:04  <isaacs>NOAR UNIX
05:27:05  <LOUDBOT>I'M SPREADING YOUR TWAT TO THE LOVESPHERE
05:27:26  <owen1>defunctzombie_zz: regarding jquery, i assume u are talking about the mobile site that doesn't care about IE
05:27:44  <grncdr>I'm kind of angling for never ever having to say "go install this thing that isn't in npm"
05:27:55  <grncdr>or at least avoiding it where possible
05:28:07  <grncdr>I want npm install && npm test to "Just Work"
05:28:22  <substack>spawn('sed', [ 's/^/' + quotemeta(prefix) + '/' ])
05:28:47  <grncdr>substack: windows exists, sad to say
05:29:08  <substack>split().pipe(through(function (line) { this.queue('prefix-' + line) })
05:29:14  <grncdr>yeah
05:29:17  <grncdr>that's what I have now
05:29:30  <grncdr>with moar lines, but same deal
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05:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 3, free: 21]
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06:01:33  <substack>isaacs: http://ci.staging.testling.com/ is launching pretty soon too, probably this week!
06:01:58  <substack>more fuel for the npm pyre
06:02:48  <substack>981 repos on the public version right now
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06:32:10  <grncdr>feedback wanted on this thing/idea: https://github.com/grncdr/npm-watch
06:36:43  <grncdr>substack: that looks pretty slick
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06:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 5, free: 22]
06:54:03  <substack>grncdr: neat!
06:57:48  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.27.70(dev-ie6-1)
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07:05:06  <feross>grncdr: that's pretty neat!
07:06:30  <grncdr>I've been using it for about an hour, so far so good :)
07:06:38  <grncdr>also writing is *hard*
07:07:25  * grncdrhas been helping edit a PhD application
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07:08:44  <grncdr>substack: feross: RT this if you want -> https://twitter.com/grncdr/status/428777440316358656
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07:43:48  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 184.106.99.27 (dev-ie7-3)
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07:57:18  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.72.216 (free8), 50.57.174.117 (dev2), 166.78.102.157 (dev-ie10-1)
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07:57:57  <groundwater>best mocking library for testing?
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08:03:02  <substack>groundwater: what are you trying to mock?
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08:03:42  <groundwater>the result of child_process.spawn
08:03:52  <groundwater>and... a few other objects
08:04:03  <groundwater>i can do it manually, just wondering if there is a slick module for it
08:04:09  <groundwater>substack ^
08:04:50  <substack>I usually just one-off that stuff.
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08:08:06  <groundwater>substack yah, that's what i'll prob. do
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08:46:19  <substack>dominictarr: http://oaklandwiki.org/tags/freewireless
08:56:58  <substack>http://oaklandwiki.org/Free_Wireless_in_Oakland
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09:22:43  <dominictarr>substack, sweet!
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09:24:33  <dominictarr>substack, idea for preventing infinite loops in untrusted code, insert a global counter into every loop that just throws when it wraps around some large number
09:27:47  <jaz303>dominictarr: https://github.com/jaz303/slowpoke
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09:29:54  <feross>dominictarr: are you in town?!
09:31:59  <substack>feross: you should come to oakland more!
09:32:32  <feross>substack: i should! i think i've only been there like once or twice in my life
09:32:33  <substack>we have https://sudoroom.org/
09:33:09  <substack>sudoroom is the manifestation of https://twitter.com/feross/status/428782066516234240
09:33:19  <feross>sudo room looks so awesome, i would love to come check it out
09:34:01  <substack>thursdays are javascript night
09:34:30  <feross>neat. what happens on javascript night?
09:34:50  <feross>mostly just hacking? or do people also talk about their code?
09:36:23  <substack>nobody organizes it
09:36:25  <substack>it just happens
09:36:30  <substack>so it's whatever you want it to be
09:36:32  <feross>that's perfect
09:40:52  <dominictarr>feross, I'm in Singapore
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10:59:32  <dominictarr>jaz303, NICE
10:59:51  <jaz303>it works with wall-clock time rather than raw iterations
10:59:55  <dominictarr>recursion isn't such a problem, because js will throw anyway
11:00:02  <dominictarr>that is fine too
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11:00:54  <dominictarr>we just need to combine this with a few other bits - like substack's safe-regex and we'll have a nice sandbox
11:01:11  <jaz303>sweet, what's the eventual purpose?
11:01:33  <jaz303>i wrote that for students to use in class, they kept locking up their environments with infinite loops
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11:06:30  <jaz303>as a general purpose sandbox, it's easily defeatable if you tweak the injected variables
11:07:02  <jaz303>although obfuscation would probably work - there's no way to get a list of all variables in the current activation record in JS is there?
11:09:06  <jaz303>or if you're being thorough you could walk the AST and ensure there are no references to anything resembling control variables
11:09:39  <jaz303>just reserve a prefix like $__sandbox and then reject any code that accesses those vars
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11:21:58  <dominictarr>jaz303, yeah, something like that.
11:22:11  <dominictarr>could also pick a different var each time, or change all the vars
11:22:41  <dominictarr>also, override Function#toString eval and a few other things like that.
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12:57:49  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.27.70(dev-ie6-1)
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13:38:49  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 184.106.99.27(dev-ie7-3)
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13:52:19  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.174.117(dev2), 166.78.102.157(dev-ie10-1)
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14:42:53  <defunctzombie>owen1: nope, removed jquery from main site
14:42:55  <defunctzombie>owen1: never allowed use of jquery in the mobile stuff
14:43:29  <defunctzombie>owen1: I only support IE10+ on my site and jquery has lead to a lot of bad frontend code which I have better ways of working with now
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17:18:30  <mikolalysenko>anyone know of an oauth library that supports streams?
17:19:29  <mikolalysenko>shapeways is taking over their npm module (exciting!) and I am trying to convince them to expose streams as a default api
17:19:55  <mikolalysenko>unfortunately all the popula oauth libraries out there are kind of fubar'd and inefficient
17:20:30  <Domenic_>oauth responses are like 200 bytes long, why would you stream that? it's just inefficient
17:20:57  <mikolalysenko>for the responses, yes. but you also want to send authorized requests
17:21:08  <mikolalysenko>like uploading a big 3d model
17:21:15  <Domenic_>For that you just set the Authoriation: header with your token
17:21:35  <mikolalysenko>ah, I guess I am revealing my ignorance of oauth here
17:21:53  <mikolalysenko>so what you are saying is that all you need to do with oauth is once you get a header, you just set that in your request?
17:22:54  <mikolalysenko>I was just thinking in terms of this module's api: https://npmjs.org/package/oauth
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17:23:13  <mikolalysenko>where they give you their own kind of limited request style api
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17:27:34  <Domenic_>well i guess i am thinking oauth2
17:27:45  <Domenic_>oauth1 i think they actually encrypt all the apis
17:27:49  <Domenic_>s/apis/requests
17:28:03  <Domenic_>so that you can use oauth1 over http instead of https
17:28:06  <Domenic_>oauth2 requires https
17:28:24  <mikolalysenko>ok
17:28:34  <mikolalysenko>so maybe the solution here is oauth2
17:28:35  <Domenic_>oauth2 does an initial low-bandwidth token-exchange dance
17:28:47  <Domenic_>once you have the token then yeah it's as simple as setting the header on subsequent requests
17:28:53  <mikolalysenko>ah, got it
17:28:58  <mikolalysenko>so that is really easy then
17:29:10  <Domenic_>yeah oauth2 is pretty nice and easy
17:29:10  <mikolalysenko>I was confused probably because I was looking at this module: https://npmjs.org/package/oauth
17:29:32  <mikolalysenko>I got the impression that they were basically reimplementing/wrapping all of http's client interface
17:29:45  <Domenic_>yeah, it looks like the oauth1 interface does have something like that
17:29:52  <Domenic_>whereas oauth2 just does getOAuthAccessToken
17:29:59  <Domenic_>from the readme at least
17:30:10  <mikolalysenko>ah, perfect. makes much more sense
17:31:05  <mikolalysenko>is there a simple example of this?
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18:21:45  <owen1>defunctzombie_zz: IE10? you just tell your IE users to upgrade?
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18:57:50  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.27.70(dev-ie6-1)
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19:12:15  <defunctzombie>owen1: yea
19:12:16  <defunctzombie>owen1: most of my users are already on better browsers
19:12:17  <defunctzombie>owen1: it is a myth that you need to support old shit forever
19:12:27  <defunctzombie>owen1: plus, advising users to use open source browsers is actually better
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19:28:58  <groundwater>defunctzombie owen1 it's prob. worth collecting metrics and see how many people are actually visiting your site with broken browsers
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19:33:22  <owen1>defunctzombie: do u use any frameworks or just browserify?
19:33:40  <defunctzombie>owen1: browserify is just one tool I use to package my js
19:33:54  <defunctzombie>owen1: I use many libs (and some might say frameworks) on client and server
19:38:50  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 184.106.99.27(dev-ie7-3)
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19:52:20  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.174.117(dev2), 166.78.102.157(dev-ie10-1)
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20:09:18  <prettyrobots>A friend asked me this:
20:09:26  * allspiritsevejoined
20:09:38  <prettyrobots>Who would be the right person to ask about npm data binding modules?
20:10:06  <prettyrobots>I want a tabular form with a row for each JS object in an array. Update form field -> updates object and vice versa.
20:10:25  <grncdr>prettyrobots: substack has done some interesting stuff there lately with http://npm.im/attractor
20:10:35  <grncdr>you can also use knockout with browserify quite easily
20:10:37  <grncdr>and ractive
20:10:48  <grncdr>or react for that matter
20:10:48  <pkrumins>weehoo
20:10:57  <pkrumins>launching the new testling redesign soon
20:11:03  <grncdr>pkrumins nice :)
20:11:27  <prettyrobots>grncdr: Thank you.
20:11:30  <pkrumins>:)
20:11:41  <grncdr>prettyrobots: I think you can also get pretty far with hyperscript and observable, it really depends on what your friend values
20:11:48  <substack>prettyrobots: http://npmjs.org/package/observable
20:12:26  <prettyrobots>grncdr, substack: Thank you more.
20:12:31  <grncdr>prettyrobots: this is a better link for the uninitiated: hyperscript might be
20:12:36  <grncdr>er bad paste
20:12:38  <grncdr>http://dominictarr.github.io/observable/
20:12:47  <grncdr>has little live demos
20:13:37  <prettyrobots>grncdr: Very good.
20:14:03  <grncdr>I think I've written enough stuff in React now that I "get it"
20:19:08  <rowbit>/!\ GitHub user "JesusTheLord" is supporting Testling with the testling_supporter_10 plan! $10/month. Cash money!
20:19:20  <grncdr>whoa
20:19:45  <grncdr>guys, the son of God is using your stuff, better make sure it's solid
20:20:04  <jjjohnny>lol
20:20:07  <pkrumins>jesus i love you
20:20:13  <pkrumins>whoever you are
20:20:43  <defunctzombie>wow
20:22:05  <jjjohnny>hey jesus https://www.gittip.com/Johnny/
20:24:39  * tilgoviquit (Remote host closed the connection)
20:25:15  <jjjohnny>did this new bitcoin-qt client disappear my fucking wallet
20:25:45  <jjjohnny>replace s perfectly functioning program with a completely inoperable one gg
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20:35:40  <jjjohnny>so bitcoin-qt apparently auto upudated, doesn't show a wallet, and takes inifnity to sync with the network
20:35:51  <jjjohnny>w 2 f g
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20:43:41  <jcrugzz>jjjohnny: checkout https://github.com/chjj/termcoin
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20:57:37  <defunctzombie>jjjohnny: rofl bitcoin
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20:59:13  <jcrugzz>defunctzombie: would you think im crazy if i wanted to rewrite https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-server
20:59:29  <defunctzombie>jcrugzz: not really
20:59:37  <defunctzombie>jcrugzz: it won't be easy but I wouldn't think you are crazy
20:59:58  <defunctzombie>jcrugzz: if you are interested you should ping the bitpay CTO, he had some interest in that project I think
21:00:56  <jcrugzz>defunctzombie: oh? Word I will, thanks. But yea this is something that needs to exist
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21:51:53  <grncdr>substack, defunctzombie_zz: browserify links to module-deps docs for more info on the browser.transform field in package.json, but https://github.com/substack/module-deps#transforms doesn't mention package.json at all
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21:52:36  <grncdr>not sure if would be more appropriate to clarify the module-deps or the browserify one
21:52:49  <grncdr>but I'll send a PR to whichever project that information should belong to
21:53:46  <grncdr>in particular, neither of them have an example, and it's not clear if you can specify more than one transform
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22:33:04  <defunctzombie>grncdr: would be more appropriate to clarify in browserify
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22:34:13  <defunctzombie>grncdr: but module deps should certainly have the docs
22:34:19  <defunctzombie>since it is the module that does the work
22:34:42  <grncdr>defunctzombie: should module-deps have an example?
22:35:18  <grncdr>also, completely off topic but this is amazingly bad: http://framework.zend.com/manual/2.2/en/modules/zend.http.client.html#examples
22:36:13  <defunctzombie>rofl
22:36:33  <defunctzombie>grncdr: example couldn't hurt (I think)
22:36:44  <defunctzombie>zend.. wasn't that the php framework?
22:36:52  <grncdr>yeah it's confusing
22:36:59  <grncdr>it's a framework/collection of libraries
22:37:33  <grncdr>that grew out of the same company that owned (owns?) the interpreter
22:37:48  <grncdr>seriously, I don't understand it
22:38:14  <grncdr>like, it implements everything-you-might-need-in-a-web-app… extremely poorly
22:38:22  <grncdr>rather than just take dependencies on other projects
22:39:29  <grncdr>it's like 100 different components that are all barely suitable for wrapping in a nicer API
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22:41:56  <defunctzombie>I remember this company from back in the day
22:42:00  <defunctzombie>when I did some php
22:42:03  <defunctzombie>it was a dark time
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22:42:49  <jjjohnny> whoops haha i use multibit, !bitcoin-qt :pikachu:
22:44:27  <grncdr>defunctzombie: yeah I think they did a big 2.0 rewrite for "modularity" and it's just an utter clusterfuck
22:48:40  <defunctzombie>heh
22:49:05  <defunctzombie>the best thing ry did for node was to keep core really small
22:49:12  <defunctzombie>it could be even smaller
22:49:18  <defunctzombie>but this way everyone had to learn to use modules
22:49:27  <defunctzombie>and it has resulted in awesome
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23:15:15  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I wanted to break mocha reporters out of moch at some some point
23:15:24  <Raynos>this requires some kind of JSON spec for what "test results" should look like
23:15:47  <Raynos>I'm thinking that a minimal assert reporter just needs to generate an in memory queue of "assert results"
23:16:06  <Raynos>that can be fed to any kind of reporter
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23:18:57  <Raynos>defunctzombie: the biggest question is what the assert results objects should look like so I can feed it into mocha reporters
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23:21:11  <substack>defunctzombie: https://gist.github.com/substack/8429519#file-small-txt
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23:31:07  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: []
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23:32:58  <substack>o_O
23:32:59  <defunctzombie>rowbit: control yourself
23:33:19  <defunctzombie>Raynos: take a look at zuul reporter
23:33:30  <defunctzombie>Raynos: pretty good idea of the type of events you need
23:33:45  <Raynos>defunctzombie: http://ci.openstack.org/zuul/reporters.html
23:33:55  <defunctzombie>Raynos: used to gather results from the various frameworks and also sent back to CLI tool
23:34:03  <defunctzombie>Raynos: no
23:34:06  <defunctzombie>Raynos: my zuul
23:34:17  <Raynos>dont see any reporter.js :D
23:35:45  <defunctzombie>one sec
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23:36:01  <Raynos>im in the mood to write a test framework
23:36:02  <Raynos>FML
23:36:21  <defunctzombie>Raynos: https://github.com/defunctzombie/zuul/blob/master/frameworks/zuul.js
23:36:31  <defunctzombie>Raynos: https://github.com/defunctzombie/zuul/blob/master/frameworks/qunit/client.js
23:36:35  <defunctzombie>and that is a good example
23:36:35  <substack>Raynos: so long as it outputs TAP on stdout
23:36:43  <defunctzombie>you can also look at the mocha client.js file
23:36:59  <defunctzombie>substack: TAP output is for a runner not a test harness
23:37:30  <defunctzombie>Raynos: anyhow.. if you look at those supported frameworks you will get a general idea of the events they report
23:37:37  <defunctzombie>most of them are all basically the same actually
23:37:55  <Raynos>substack: i actually dont want a test framework, i want to write test modules that can be trivially composed.
23:38:30  <Raynos>test runners are silly
23:38:37  <Raynos>test queue for flow control is a module
23:38:49  <Raynos>assert reporter is a module
23:38:56  <Raynos>TAP consumer for an assertion report is a module
23:39:09  <Raynos>these three can be combined into a 10 line test "framework"
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23:39:23  <substack>I just want to require() a lib and have it output tap
23:39:36  <substack>so I can use tools to turn that tap into a 0 or a non-zero
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23:40:23  <defunctzombie>I just want to require a lib and have it not make opinions about what to output
23:40:51  <substack>defunctzombie: you can require another lib then
23:40:56  <substack>one that has an output that you like
23:41:11  <defunctzombie>the test lib I require doesn't need to be tied to output
23:41:19  <substack>but then it's more work to integrate it into other systems that consume standard output formats
23:41:34  <defunctzombie>no.. it is actually less
23:41:54  <defunctzombie>tape was the most work to integrate actually and still craps all over the console in the browser
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23:42:54  <defunctzombie>I don't know if I wanna go down this line of reasoning again.. since I kinda feel it goes nowhere. Everyone will have their opinion. That is cool. Leads to more modules and eventually people discover what they like.
23:43:06  <defunctzombie>without alternatives there is no new discovery which I would not like
23:43:20  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.56.27.70 (dev-ie6-1)
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