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00:12:41  * spionis getting annoyed by vim lately
00:12:56  <spion>have you tried scripting anything substantial in vim? its horrible!
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00:13:12  <spion>feels like writing php spaghetti
00:13:17  <spion>:P
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00:14:11  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: seaport services down: web.testling
00:15:12  <groundwater>Raynos if you have a Mac, sourcetree is also great
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00:15:57  <groundwater>it basically does 'git add -p' but with a nice display
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00:20:36  <Raynos>groundwater: sourcetree ?
00:20:42  <Raynos>are you recommending some kind of gui tool
00:20:44  <Raynos>#dissapoint
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00:23:05  <groundwater>i'll use any tool that gets the job done
00:27:19  <substack>rvagg, Raynos, defunctzombie_zz: what if `browserify --warn` could warn you against using implicit builtins and point you towards explicit node modules?
00:28:01  <substack>it would also be really good if we could have 1:1 parity with node core libs and npm names
00:29:17  <substack>rvagg: would it be possible to cross-publish readable-stream under `buffer`?
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00:43:12  <Raynos>substack: #agreed. we should do the `fs/` trick to load fs as a folder (which reads from package.json or index.js)
00:43:35  <substack>Raynos: yep, I'll put that in the writeup
00:43:57  <substack>so nothing will change in v4, there will just be an official deprecation notice about insert module globals
00:44:20  <substack>and the builtins
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00:44:36  <Raynos>the problem with `require('fs')` vs `require('fs/')` is that `fs` on npm needs to fall back to the real node `fs` when running on node
00:44:44  <Raynos>otherwise you have a branch in `node + browser` code
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00:45:49  <substack>Raynos: it would be really nice to have a versioned version of the fs module in node code though
00:46:14  <substack>then you're not vulnerable to breaking changes in core
00:46:22  <Raynos>:)
00:46:22  <substack>your code can work forever
00:46:28  <Raynos>#migrate node core to npm
00:46:49  <Raynos>substack: it cant work forever because breaking changes in process.bindings
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00:47:06  <Raynos>using the 0.8 version of fs on node 0.10 wont work without bug fixing the 0.8 version for breaking process.bindings changes
00:47:13  <Raynos>thats a LOT of maintenance effort
00:48:03  <terinjokes>substack: wait, insert-module-globals and the builtins are going to be deprecated?
00:48:38  <substack>terinjokes: in favor of explicitly loading the modules from npm
00:49:13  <terinjokes>but that would require node modules to change, or am i missing something?
00:49:43  <substack>it would, which is why the time window will be really long
00:50:25  <substack>so I'm going to have a --warn mode for browserify that will show you where your code is using implicit globals and modules
00:51:02  <terinjokes>so a long time in the future require('fs') might break because the builtins are gone?
00:51:21  <substack>well fs is just an empty object
00:51:27  <substack>I don't think anyone will miss that
00:51:37  <terinjokes>bad example
00:51:41  <terinjokes>require('path')
00:51:41  <substack>terinjokes: it will turn into a plugin that you have to explicit opt-in to
00:52:28  <substack>gozala: can we get ie8 support landed into querystring?
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00:53:17  <terinjokes>substack: mkay… so similar to if I had to pass the builtins to as 'modules' to module-deps manually?
00:53:33  <gozala>substack: I gave ownership to it to medikoo
00:53:37  <terinjokes>which i may or may not already do…
00:53:45  <gozala>so he’s maintaining it
00:54:04  <substack>gozala: I only see 1 maintainer on the npm page
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00:54:42  <gozala>substack: I’ll look into why is that a case
00:54:57  <gozala>substack: but either way he’s maintaining the repo
00:55:00  <gozala>and a package
00:55:02  <substack>ok cool
00:55:07  <substack>I'll ping him about it then
00:55:20  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 8, free: 26]
00:55:48  <pkrumins>how's it going?
00:56:08  <Raynos>substack: for --warn, warn seperately for "my code" and anything in "node_modules"
00:56:17  <Raynos>thats important because node_modules noise will make me turn warnings off
00:56:51  <Raynos>substack: also @blame the npm author in the warning :D
00:57:21  <Raynos>then I can `browserify --warn | node spam_authors_on_twitter.js`
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01:05:08  <substack>Raynos: both kinds
01:07:09  <substack>defunctzombie_zz: can you update the path module on npm to be at parity with the stuff in 0.10? you can just copy from https://github.com/substack/path-browserify
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01:12:24  <pkrumins>Raynos: do you have any private node.js repos?
01:12:37  <Raynos>yes
01:12:50  <pkrumins>Raynos: we're launching the new testling version that supports private github node.js repos and we need some help testing that part
01:13:06  <substack>not quite yet
01:13:27  <pkrumins>Raynos: would you be available to help once we're ready?
01:13:28  <Raynos>pkrumins: cool, I'll need to find some private repos
01:13:33  <Raynos>yeah I can help out
01:13:46  <pkrumins>great!
01:13:51  <pkrumins>thanks!
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01:28:38  <jlord>It is "modules" and not "packages" correct?
01:29:22  <substack>jlord: either one, whatevs
01:29:32  <substack>there is a lot of overlap in what those terms mean
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01:31:09  <jlord>I know that they do a fine job of describing the thing, but in node, do people more often call the things on NPM modules?
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01:33:06  <jlord>substack: basically if one were writing a bunch of documentation what word should they use to describe the things on NPM
01:33:10  <Raynos>a module is a file
01:33:14  <Raynos>a package is an npm package
01:33:22  <Raynos>require("global/document") require("global/window")
01:33:27  <Raynos>global is a package that exposes two modules
01:33:49  <Raynos>most packages export a single module
01:34:01  <jlord>Raynos: Hmmm. Basically I'm reading some documentation for a project at work that uses the word "packages" when refering to things on NPM and it felt really odd to me
01:34:11  <Raynos>it is correct
01:34:19  <Raynos>but you install and use modules
01:34:28  <Raynos>keyword moduleS
01:34:54  <jlord>Raynos: Right, so it would be better to say "modules" then?
01:35:19  <jlord>I also feel like that's what people say in general, I don't hear a lot of "download my node package"
01:36:09  <jlord>I just didn't know if it was worth me opening an issue for on the project since the word still "works"
01:36:54  <Raynos>its worth a PR
01:36:55  <Raynos>or a commit
01:37:05  <Raynos>#commitdirectlyonmaster
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01:38:28  <jlord>haha
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01:47:50  <chrisdickinson>jlord: belatedly, i've been trying to keep to referring to "installable things on npm" as packages, vs. files that have require and single export ("modules")
01:48:12  <chrisdickinson>(to add a data point)
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01:55:20  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 3, free: 29]
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02:42:29  <substack>https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/issues/636
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02:44:17  <substack>rvagg ogd Raynos defunctzombie_zz chrisdickinson ^^^^
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02:46:17  * terinjokesreads
02:48:33  <Raynos>substack: v4 can use perf enhancements, reduced filesize, improved dedupe
02:49:37  <substack>Raynos: perf enhancements from which part?
02:49:58  <Raynos>the compiled artifact
02:50:09  <Raynos>not familiar enough with browserify to know where that happens
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02:50:53  <mikolalysenko>Raynos: maybe a transform could do some optimizations
02:51:25  <mikolalysenko>though it is a bit silly, since generally interpreters do every possible perf enhancement they can think of
02:51:36  <chrisdickinson>substack: i was just thinking about what it would take to make a language agnostic browserify
02:51:46  <mikolalysenko>and even if you do figure out some way to statically boost perf, they will probably just copy it into the main thing
02:51:46  <chrisdickinson>sort of unifying the glslify / dotc / browserify worlds
02:52:06  <mikolalysenko>chrisdickinson: I've actually been thinking about this as well
02:52:28  <chrisdickinson>it'd be neat if dotc could be made to use the same trick glslify uses for scoping
02:52:53  <rvagg>substack: cross publish readable-stream as buffer? how does that make sense?
02:52:55  <chrisdickinson>(that's tangential, though!)
02:52:57  <mikolalysenko>maybe. though I think that it would be neat to have some way to seamless compile c++ and distribute packages via npm
02:53:08  <mikolalysenko>I have some ideas on this, but it is very ambitious
02:53:45  <mikolalysenko>the idea would be to do c++ to binary/abi if possible with a fallback to pure js/emscripten/pnacl if it fails
02:53:56  <mikolalysenko>so you could distribute your c anywhere and have it just work
02:54:29  <mikolalysenko>and more importantly build bindings for pure C libraries that don't have js analogs
02:54:29  <chrisdickinson>re: es6 modules, I was under the impression that https://github.com/square/es6-module-transpiler was pretty stable
02:54:45  * chrisdickinsonnods
02:55:11  <chrisdickinson>one problem with using emscripten is the python dep (speaking as someone who, until recently, had to run python 2.6 for work)
02:55:20  <mikolalysenko>yeah, that part sucks
02:55:20  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 16]
02:55:32  <mikolalysenko>and there are other really sucky parts too
02:55:40  <mikolalysenko>like it has no real way to dynamically load libraries
02:55:52  <mikolalysenko>you allocate two asm.js emscripten heaps and your process/tab goes *kaboom*
02:56:06  <mikolalysenko>but I think this is all fixable
02:56:17  <mikolalysenko>the python bits of emscripten are all just command line parsing and sugar
02:56:27  * chrisdickinsonnods
02:56:29  <mikolalysenko>and can probably be rewritten in js/c++ without much trouble
02:56:46  <mikolalysenko>or even python itself could be emscriptened and used to run it
02:57:15  <mikolalysenko>the heap issue though is more fundamental and requires some serious thought about modifying emscripten itself
02:57:24  <mikolalysenko>and how to manage/share that memory across modules dynamically
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02:59:52  <mikolalysenko>I think though that re es6, it may be too soon to call it
03:00:04  <mikolalysenko>not all the browsers it, so who knows how it will play out
03:00:25  <mikolalysenko>and maybe node will feel pressure to switch over or at least offer it as an alternative to commonjs
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03:01:39  <mikolalysenko>(sorry maybe shouldn't have butted in here)
03:05:47  <chrisdickinson>nono feedback ++good
03:05:52  <chrisdickinson>*is ++good
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03:09:02  <terinjokes>x-posting from #browserify: i don't think that most module developers will want to use versioned modules for builtins
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03:28:35  <guybrush>right now it checks for builtins anyway? so i think it doesnt matter if some devs dont want to use core-stuff from npm
03:30:11  <guybrush>i mean, what i wanted to say - "stream" wont be a package on npm ever, and browserify will support require('stream') for as long as node has it in core
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03:33:41  <terinjokes>guybrush: it sounds like you'll have to opt into shimming builtins
03:37:14  <guybrush>hm maybe im understand it wrong, but as i understand it browserify can not make builtins different than node-core-stuff as it trys to be like node as much as possible
03:38:12  <guybrush>but like explained in rvagg's blog-post it is good idea to depend on modules in npm as much as possible, avoiding unnecessary core-stuff as much as possible
03:38:53  <terinjokes>guybrush: right, but it sounds like in v4 having the shims inserted for you will be opt-in, with the expectation that module developers will switch to versioning core modules
03:38:54  <guybrush>at least i dont think its a good idea to make require('stream') in browserify different than node
03:39:19  <terinjokes>require('fs/') or require('readable-stream') over require('fs') or require('stream')
03:39:39  <guybrush>well readable-stream is no different from stream anyway
03:39:52  <feross>guybrush: with the exception that you can version it
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03:40:15  <guybrush>right but that does browserify for me isnt it?
03:40:26  <guybrush>i mean i dont have to depend on "stream" in my package.json
03:40:28  <terinjokes>feross: which is important because greater than a certain version it stops implementing 0.10 streams and starts experimenting with 0.11 streams
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03:40:44  <guybrush>browserify will just put [email protected] in for me when i do require('stream')
03:41:02  <guybrush>i mean it wont put it in for me in package.json, it just is there?
03:41:06  <terinjokes>guybrush: the expectation is that in the future you *will* put them in package.json
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03:41:22  <terinjokes>at least from what I understand
03:41:26  <guybrush>yes but not as "stream", i will put it as "readable-stream"
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03:41:52  <terinjokes>right, but if you do require 'stream' browserify will not by default include a module for it
03:41:56  <feross_>gah, my irc client crashed... missed the last few messages
03:42:05  <terinjokes>[19:40:27] terinjokes: feross: which is important because greater than a certain version it stops implementing 0.10 streams and starts experimenting with 0.11 streams
03:42:29  <feross_>yep - the main problem with doing require('stream') is you get whatever node decides to give you
03:42:42  <guybrush>it just depends on the node-version
03:42:55  <terinjokes>feross: i was referring to readable-stream, not streams
03:43:31  <feross_>yep
03:43:48  <guybrush>so thats how i see how it will come: browserify will just give you readable-stream at some version when you do require('stream')
03:43:49  <feross_>the problem is when browserify sees require('stream') it has to make a call and give you *something*, likely whatever latest node has
03:44:01  <guybrush>but that version is hardcoded in browserify
03:44:30  <guybrush>if you want to depend on specific stream (which is better) than you have to depend on some readable-stream in your package.json
03:44:39  <guybrush>and you have to require('readable-stream')
03:44:53  <guybrush>no?
03:45:00  <feross_>yep
03:45:13  <feross_>i think that 'readable-stream' should get cross published at 'stream'
03:45:31  <feross_>i just cross-published 'native-buffer-browserify' at 'buffer' https://npmjs.org/package/buffer
03:45:36  <guybrush>hmm maybe, but it will maybe cause issues with node?
03:45:44  <guybrush>when i put stream in the dependency
03:45:55  <guybrush>it will crash nodes net and stuff :D
03:46:02  <feross_>require('stream') will always give you core i believe
03:46:08  <terinjokes>feross: what about that fact that readable-stream itself requires stream?
03:46:09  <guybrush>right
03:46:23  <feross_>'stream' on npm is different than 'stream' in core
03:46:45  <guybrush>that would have to be addressed in nodes module-system?
03:46:51  <feross_>to require 'stream' from npm, you do require('stream/')
03:46:58  <guybrush>i mean require('stream') cant come from node_modules
03:47:00  <terinjokes>feross: it should, require('stream/') giving you the npm version
03:47:23  <guybrush>that feels very hacky
03:47:39  <guybrush>just use another name and deal with it that "stream" is already taken
03:48:33  <guybrush>but maybe in a perfect world, node-core would only consist of module-system :D
03:48:44  <guybrush>and net, http, stream, .. would all be in npm
03:49:01  <guybrush>and v8 bindings (in core)
03:49:04  <mikolalysenko>maybe. though some things need to be died to the event loop/libuv directly for performance
03:49:25  <mikolalysenko>I can see the justification for putting sockets/files/etc. in core
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03:55:20  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 17]
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05:10:50  <substack>juliangruber, rvagg: what do you think about cross-publishing readable-stream as stream?
05:11:02  <substack>the stream package is owned by juliangruber
05:11:22  <substack>juliangruber: see also https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/issues/636
05:11:26  <substack>the part about 1:1 core with npm
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05:20:28  <owen1>substack: so apparently you built meteor.js - http://nodewebmodules.com/
05:23:08  <substack>owen1: I published it to npm
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05:27:53  <owen1>substack: oh. i thought it's a joke!
05:27:59  <owen1>hilarious
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06:43:53  <substack>rvagg: https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/issues/636#issuecomment-34406500
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07:16:01  <terinjokes>substack: i thought about it on my trip home
07:16:19  <terinjokes>coupled with your timeline, i kinda like the idea afterall
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08:52:19  <juliangruber>substack: i'm all +1 for that
08:52:41  <juliangruber>_but_, will people be able to require it?
08:52:51  <juliangruber>see what happened to learnboost's cluster module
08:53:03  <juliangruber>ah gotcha, only for browserify
08:55:20  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 38]
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08:57:10  <juliangruber>ogd: saw bkts, is that editor usable for you? the typing delay ruined it for me
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08:57:56  <terinjokes>juliangruber: no, even in node you can do require('streams/') to get the npm version of streams
08:58:15  <juliangruber>oh wow
08:58:17  <ogd>juliangruber: i dont notice a typing delay
08:58:17  <juliangruber>such hack
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08:58:25  <juliangruber>node_modules should have precedence
08:58:46  <juliangruber>ogd: cool i'll give it a spin again
08:59:32  <ogd>juliangruber: it doesnt entirely feel like a Mac app e.g. CMD+N and CMD+` dont work the same as other apps
08:59:42  <ogd>juliangruber: but i think they just havent been implemented yet
09:00:10  <juliangruber>ogd: it's strange that CMD` woudln't work
09:00:19  <juliangruber>i thought that would be part of the wm
09:00:21  <ogd>juliangruber: yea i tracked it down to CEF
09:00:28  <juliangruber>cef
09:00:31  <juliangruber>?
09:00:44  <ogd>https://github.com/adobe/brackets/issues/2436
09:00:51  <ogd>chromium embedded framework
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09:04:18  <juliangruber>oh
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09:04:24  <juliangruber>it def. got faster
09:04:25  <juliangruber>nice
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10:02:25  <rvagg>substack: would it be better to publish something in 'stream' that pulls in readable-stream and exposes it as its own?
10:04:25  <substack>rvagg: it could just be module.exports = require('readable-stream') with version parity
10:04:42  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.72.32 (free10)
10:04:50  <substack>in a postpublish hook perhaps
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10:11:28  <rvagg>substack: yeah, all good, sign me up for that when we have readable-stream ready to roll, I think we have some stuff still to sort out there tho
10:11:45  <rvagg>substack: and there's also a require('stream') in there, I imagine that could be undone some how with a custom transform?
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11:10:42  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/11.0
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14:59:09  <niftylettuce_>simple subs https://github.com/niftylettuce/substripe
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15:55:20  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 36]
15:59:12  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.32(free10)
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16:07:04  <jesusabdullah>doof, brooklynjs costs moneyyyyy
16:10:25  <substack>exspencity
16:12:10  <dimadima>it's $20?
16:12:45  <substack>so much
16:12:48  <substack>wow
16:13:05  <substack>16 tacos
16:13:24  <dimadima>lol substack
16:13:46  <dimadima>yeah and the even is, i don't understand it
16:13:48  <dimadima>event
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16:14:01  <dimadima>"Learn how to step-debug browser JavaScript, from"
16:14:11  <dimadima>why is that something you learn at an event
16:14:58  <dimadima>bah
16:16:53  <jesusabdullah>Well, they have speakers?
16:17:21  <jesusabdullah>I mean, 20 bucks isn't a whole lot I'm just ultra cheapskate and can't get pumped enough to SCRAMBLE for an EXCLUSIVE TICKET
16:17:22  <Maciek416>dunno about the attendees but event content reaches far and wide via videos and I'm sure lots of people will appreciate it. Could be far worse topics to cover
16:17:29  <jesusabdullah>Plus, the afterparty is wide open
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16:19:48  <jesusabdullah>Maaaan apis are hard
16:21:48  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: they donate all that money and I think it's mainly to keep ppl from rsvping and not showing up
16:22:09  <thlorenz>I got around that twice now - first by speaking and on the next one by playing guitar ;)
16:23:08  <jesusabdullah>thlorenz: Yeah like, I get that, I don't find it upsetting or anything
16:24:56  <substack>testling profesh, might be soft launching today :D
16:25:10  <andreypopp>seeing the traffic in #browserify, probably browserify needs a series of accessible screencasts
16:25:17  <andreypopp>+ for browserify-shim
16:25:20  <substack>andreypopp: yep
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16:27:38  <thlorenz>andreypopp: I could do a shim one although I think that the documentation is pretty good - I wrote it with lots of love :)
16:28:07  <andreypopp>thlorenz: people don't read docs :-)
16:28:33  <thlorenz>so you rather watch a screen cast instead of skimming docs to the part you need?
16:28:46  <andreypopp>you need two or three red banners with common recipes
16:29:06  <andreypopp>thlorenz: I certainly not, but some people prefer screencasts
16:29:31  <andreypopp>thlorenz: I prefer --help
16:29:49  <thlorenz>andreypopp: but I did recipes, You will Always, You will Sometimes - i.e. https://github.com/thlorenz/browserify-shim#you-will-always
16:30:11  <thlorenz>andreypopp: anyhoo I'll do a cast when I'm back from vacation
16:30:31  <andreypopp>I think it would be great if future browserify plugins will be able to integrate with command line help somehow
16:41:28  <dimadima>jesusabdullah: i didn't think you were in NY, anyway
16:43:07  <jesusabdullah>dimadima: Yeah moved here last thursday
16:43:08  <jesusabdullah>lulz
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16:43:23  <dimadima>oh shit get out of town
16:43:32  <jesusabdullah>andreypopp: and I don't watch screencasts XD
16:43:39  <dimadima>i'm no longer really in ny, but plan on back
16:43:43  <jesusabdullah>dimadima: That's not nice I just got here! XD
16:43:44  <dimadima>great to hear others moving
16:44:10  <dimadima>ny is cool, kind of evil, but evil aside, i love it
16:44:19  <dimadima>jesusabdullah: where you living?
16:44:27  <dimadima>did you take a job?
16:44:29  <jesusabdullah>uhhhhh
16:44:36  <jesusabdullah>Yeah, I'm working for Conde Nast
16:44:39  <dimadima>nice
16:45:03  <jesusabdullah>and I'm staying at Sara Chipps' place right now, though that runs out Pretty Soon so I need to get my shit in gear and arrange Alternative Housing and/or Permanent Housing
16:45:08  <jesusabdullah>(most likely another airbnb)
16:45:22  <dimadima>Oh, i don't know sara chipp
16:45:42  <dimadima>but yeah, housing in ny is the worst
16:45:52  <jesusabdullah>I've just been lazy
16:46:09  <dimadima>that's how i ended up living with my girlfriend in a way-too-small space
16:46:22  <dimadima>not good being lazy :D
16:46:57  <dimadima>there should be a ny js/js-y channel. i joined a few suspects like #ny, #nyc the other day here on freenode, and they were empty
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17:07:07  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) [email protected] successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
17:07:07  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
17:11:19  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: btw only way to change ctor is wrap it in another function
17:11:40  <thlorenz>can't get at the ctor itself since that is just a function - cannot change what happens inside of it
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17:23:14  <jesusabdullah>thlorenz: Yeah, leastways not without some preexisting hooks
17:24:27  <jesusabdullah>thlorenz: thinking something like, var Thing = function () { var self = this; this.initters.forEach(function (i) { i.apply(self, arguments); }); };
17:24:58  <jesusabdullah>(ignore the obvious bug(s))
17:25:01  <thlorenz>yeah, but you cant change the Thing ctor itself
17:25:42  <thlorenz>I mean you can call the original ctor in there (just wrapping it basically), but you cannot actually 'change' the code in the ctor
17:26:01  <jesusabdullah>yeah
17:26:10  <jesusabdullah>Is that a sane approach? ^^
17:26:21  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: but it looks like you are trying to extend something without extending it :)
17:27:14  <jesusabdullah>Yeah, now I'm thinking maybe I just want mixins
17:27:21  <thlorenz>but wrapping the original ctor with a function and in there calling it + doing extrea struff would work
17:27:43  <jesusabdullah>See, I'm trying to avoid having to do var thing = new Thing; modify(thing); every time
17:28:04  <jesusabdullah>somehow make Thing automagically do modify(thing) on new-ing
17:28:04  <thlorenz>I hate mixins, since it's not clear where the functionality came from
17:28:14  <jesusabdullah>YEAH WELL
17:28:14  <LOUDBOT>ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: BEATEN THEN EATEN
17:28:57  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: just do thingy.js : module.exports = function (args) { var t = new Thing(args); /* do extra stuff */ return t }
17:29:09  <thlorenz>then I can just require('thingy')(args)
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17:31:20  <jesusabdullah>thlorenz but I'm actively trying to avoid that
17:31:30  <jesusabdullah>THIS IS A FRAMEWORK DEAL WITH IT
17:31:31  <LOUDBOT>WHAT HAS BEEN ACHIEVED CANNOT BE UNACHIEVED
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17:32:04  <thlorenz>ah, ok, well then YOU ARE SCREWED no matter what LOUDBOT thinkgs
17:32:12  <jesusabdullah>yeah
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17:35:13  <mikolalysenko>it is usually better to add functionality by composing things than by modifying older things
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17:39:17  <jesusabdullah>usually.
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18:07:58  <mikolalysenko>regarding workshopper/nodeschool events, how do you guys usually run them?
18:08:19  <mikolalysenko>is it like you give the attendees some problems to work on while you talk, or do you just run through the whole lecture in one shot?
18:08:42  <mikolalysenko>or do you kind of break it up, like talk for a bit, let them work on problems, then talk a bit, etc.
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18:20:44  <jesusabdullah>mikolalysenko: plz2b port https://github.com/acaudwell/Logstalgia to html5/webgl
18:27:49  <mikolalysenko>jesusabdullah: neat, how does it work?
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18:32:31  <mikolalysenko>so like each of the balls on the field is a request and the paddle hits it if the server handled it successfully?
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18:33:00  <pfraze>mikolalysenko: yeah
18:33:05  <mikolalysenko>hmm
18:33:21  <mikolalysenko>not sure I completely understand the visualization, but I think it should be kinda easy to do this
18:34:03  <jesusabdullah>Each of the incoming balls is a request, the paddle bounce is the response, I think the axis on the right is routes, the number that radiates off the ball is the status code
18:34:19  <mikolalysenko>got it
18:34:22  <pfraze>arguable whether it helps you get real information, but I love this kind of thing
18:34:40  <mikolalysenko>how long does each ball stay on the screen?
18:34:54  <mikolalysenko>does the ping time affect the paddle/etc?
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18:36:09  <mikolalysenko>and I guess there is some sort of hazy feedback effect thing that is drawn over top of all of it
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18:37:02  <pfraze>the real question is, when can you start manipulating the visualization to config the server? Thats the big money
18:37:19  <jesusabdullah>Unsure mikolalysenko
18:37:22  <mikolalysenko>ahaha, not sure what you'd want to configure
18:37:38  <jesusabdullah>Hoping you can successfully scan the sauce, c++ is scary to me
18:37:49  <pfraze>sauce++
18:37:59  <mikolalysenko>it doesn't look like it is doing a whole lot actually
18:38:33  <pfraze>yeah I bet somebody that knows threejs could parse an access log and spit out a clone in 2 days
18:38:41  <mikolalysenko>also why is c++ scary? js is about the same level of crazy
18:39:28  <mikolalysenko>though build tools for c++ are total ass, so maybe that has something to do with it
18:39:42  <mikolalysenko>since debug/rebuild/etc. takes a goddamn eternity
18:40:02  <pfraze>true fact
18:40:39  <pfraze>what do you use mikolalysenko? I havent done real c++ since I was game programming on windows, so that was all visual studio
18:40:43  <mikolalysenko>:makes one line change in header, waits 30 minutes fo recompile
18:40:55  <mikolalysenko>just makefiles/gnu bin utils
18:40:58  <pfraze>Im guessing the nix world of c++ is make
18:40:58  <pfraze>yeah
18:41:52  <mikolalysenko>the dumbest part of c++ is by far the whole header file thing, and it will probably never change
18:42:49  <pfraze>never know, theres still a lot of active spec work
18:43:07  <mikolalysenko>maybe, but there is too much legacy code written that way
18:43:32  <mikolalysenko>they kind of made a half hearted attempt to fix it with namespaces, but it didn't really solve anything
18:43:34  <pfraze>c++ never shies from competing paradigms!
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18:45:07  <jesusabdullah>mikolalysenko because of my distinct levels of unfamiliarity
18:45:23  <mikolalysenko>fair enough
18:45:38  <mikolalysenko>anyway, I need to take off
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19:03:54  <owen1>using browserify, is there a way to use the shimmed version of a module and not the one i have in node_modules? for example - require('url'); is there a way to use the shimmed version even if it exist in node_modules?
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21:22:13  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/8.0
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21:47:04  <defunctzombie>chrisdickinson: ping
21:47:07  <chrisdickinson>pong
21:47:16  <defunctzombie>chrisdickinson: what do you know about Blobs?
21:47:34  <chrisdickinson>like, w3c blobs?
21:48:09  <defunctzombie>chrisdickinson: yea
21:48:16  <defunctzombie>chrisdickinson: if I want to turn one into base64
21:48:22  <chrisdickinson>ah
21:48:22  <defunctzombie>is the only way using the file reader crap?
21:48:56  <chrisdickinson>how did you attain the blob?
21:49:05  <chrisdickinson>if you have the binary data you can use bops to get base64
21:49:24  <chrisdickinson>otherwise yes, you'll have to use filereader to get at the contents afaik
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21:55:20  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 16, free: 27]
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21:56:22  <defunctzombie>chrisdickinson: lames
21:59:13  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.32(free10)
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22:55:20  <rowbit>Daily usage stats: [developer: 145, free: 694]
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23:00:02  <marcello3d>isaacs: getting a 404 on https://npmjs.org/package/mongolian that npm info mongolian works fine for: https://github.com/npm/npm-www/issues/596
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23:15:06  <Altreus>Someone recently posted something about how to tidy up the callback hell you get from noding too much... anyone know what that would've been?
23:16:17  <andreypopp>Altreus: fibers?
23:16:51  <Altreus>doesn't ring a bell but looks handy
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23:22:06  <chrisdickinson>Altreus: promises
23:22:08  <chrisdickinson>from strong loop
23:22:14  <chrisdickinson>notably: i disagree with that post :)
23:22:30  <chrisdickinson>(you can still write spaghetti using promises)
23:23:02  <Altreus>well, you can write spaghetti code in anything
23:23:02  <chrisdickinson>it's just pappardelle vs. bowtie
23:23:44  <chrisdickinson>true
23:24:04  <chrisdickinson>but you can also write clean callback code
23:24:24  <Altreus>it's the nesty anonymous function bit that makes it messy
23:24:29  <Altreus>naming them is probably step one :)
23:24:31  <chrisdickinson>the solution is to avoid nesting
23:24:34  <chrisdickinson>yep
23:24:48  <chrisdickinson>naming + hoisting helps a lot.
23:24:49  <Altreus>then you end up in naming hell instead :P
23:24:59  <chrisdickinson>i haven't found myself with that problem
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23:25:08  <chrisdickinson>`on<thing completed>`
23:25:09  <Altreus>come now, all devs get stuck naming things
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23:38:36  <isaacs>marcello3d: that's weird?
23:41:47  <marcello3d>isaacs: yes? :)
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23:55:20  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 6, free: 16]
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