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00:03:37  <jjjohnny_>i issued .99999999 FLOATCOIN on counterparty
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00:09:21  <jjjohnny_>the 1st thousand shares of JOHNNY can be had in exchange for .001 BTC
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00:09:26  <jjjohnny_>each
00:10:06  <jjjohnny_>im in the blochain bitches
00:12:50  <jjjohnny_>http://storj.io/crowdsale.html
00:13:06  <jjjohnny_>IS EVERYONE AT BURNINGS MAN?
00:13:07  <LOUDBOT>ALMOST A MINUTE LATE. I AM DISAPPOINT
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03:56:04  <jjjohnny_>ircretary: tell domanic https://github.com/Storj/Metadisk
03:56:04  <ircretary>jjjohnny_: I'll be sure to tell domanic
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03:56:57  <jjjohnny_>ircretary: tell domanic http://datacoin.info/index.php?id=index
03:56:57  <ircretary>jjjohnny_: I'll be sure to tell domanic
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04:53:37  <substack>ogd: http://substack.neocities.org/hex_grid.html
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05:05:31  <substack>https://github.com/substack/hex-grid
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05:23:20  <domanic>jjjohnny_, they say "Files are stored on local HDDs of all users participating in the Datacoin network. Each user has their own full local copy of all Datacoin files."
05:23:32  <domanic>I.e. this system does not scale... at all
05:23:45  <domanic>all the files live on all the servers
05:24:01  <domanic>so the greater adoption the worse the system.
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05:26:56  <domanic>it would not be as bad if the blockchain was only an index, and did not actually contain the files
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05:31:43  <kriskowal_>domanic: content hash addresses, separate p2p distributed hash table keyed by content hash address
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05:32:26  <domanic>kriskowal_, that would be much better, yes
05:32:53  <domanic>there are still problems of course, where you need to incentivise storing the files.
05:33:00  <kriskowal_>hm. still need to think about voluntary content retention for subsets of the dht
05:33:09  <domanic>yeah
05:33:22  <domanic>the problem, is that storing files is really really CHEAP
05:33:34  <domanic>s3 is 0.03 cents/GB/month
05:33:56  <domanic>so, datacoin can do 500GB a year
05:34:18  <domanic>that is $15 a month on s3
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05:34:50  <domanic>however, if you have a network of 1000 servers that all store that much data... well it just got 1000 times more expensive!
05:36:02  <domanic>jbenet is working on another one: http://filecoin.io/
05:36:21  <domanic>and he understands _computer science_
05:36:41  <jbenet>haha
05:37:18  <domanic>to be honest, I'm still a little skeptical of the proof of storage idea, and whether a crypto currency is the right model for a file storage network
05:37:31  <jbenet>thanks domanic. I specialized in _**mad** computer science_ (and distributed systems ;) )
05:37:46  <jbenet>we should talk about it at some point
05:37:56  <jbenet>i dont mean Filecoin to be a store of value necessarily.
05:38:16  <domanic>jbenet, no - but it's an incentivized storage system
05:38:19  <jbenet>But rather just tokens representing the total value of the service.
05:38:22  <jbenet>yep.
05:38:35  <jbenet>so is s3.
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05:38:58  <jbenet>s3 could delete your data tomorrow. but there's strong incentives at play there too.
05:39:14  <domanic>yeah, someone is paying for it.
05:39:36  <domanic>one thing both of these models has in common though: the storer pays
05:39:50  <jbenet>btw, datacoin is useless. It stores everything on the blockchain, so at that point, just use namecoin or bitcoin.
05:40:01  <domanic>agree
05:40:02  <jbenet>domanic so does filecoin
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05:40:12  <domanic>yes exactly
05:40:22  <domanic>now, this is the thing I wonder about
05:40:49  <domanic>what if the reader paid? paid for having the file available?
05:41:15  <jbenet>domanic, COD is another model i thought about, but it's pretty complicated because you have to provide incentive to store. otherwise rational agents have little guarantee arbitrary piece of data d will be worth anything.
05:41:27  <jbenet>Filecoin does a pseudo COD with Gets.
05:41:35  <domanic>what is COD?
05:41:41  <jbenet>COD = collect on delivery, from package shippers.
05:41:48  <domanic>right
05:42:39  <domanic>hard to represent with a blockchain crypto currency
05:42:51  <jbenet>but you _have_ to incentivize *before*. The only other option is having a really strong expectation of the data being wanted (strong enough to generate a futures market today, which is basically the same thing as just incentivizing now).
05:42:55  <domanic>because you'd have to log every download, which is big data
05:43:11  <jbenet>also, note that in filecoin it's not only the original person-- *anyone* can add money to keep that piece alive.
05:43:35  <domanic>oh! okay now that is different!
05:43:57  <jbenet>:)
05:44:12  <jbenet>my goal is to have wikipedia on IPFS backed by Filecoin by EOY.
05:44:19  <jbenet>(End Of Year)
05:44:35  <domanic>and so the probability of a reward is based on how much backing their is for a piece?
05:44:39  <domanic>aka, the demand
05:45:12  <jbenet>domanic yep.
05:45:21  <jbenet>well, that, and the block reward.
05:45:36  <domanic>jbenet, idea: what if *some* of the reward for a piece is allocated to the key that first uploaded that piece?
05:45:39  <jbenet>you need a block reward to issue currency + play with defaltion/inflation, etc.
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05:46:01  <jbenet>domanic that's a very different info market that you can build on top.
05:46:06  <jbenet>with a script.
05:46:26  <domanic>jbenet, you have a script lang like in bitcoin?
05:46:41  <jbenet>(basically, reward for data that hashes to X.)
05:46:43  <jbenet>yeah we will.
05:47:04  <jbenet>just the same for now, + some ops for data.
05:47:18  <jbenet>but also exploring cross chain ops.
05:48:46  <jbenet>btw, guys, i saw storj mentioned up there. you should dig into their tech before recommending/spending.
05:49:03  <jbenet>jjjohnny_ ^
05:49:40  <jbenet>I'm biased, so i won't speak. make your own sound judgments :)
05:56:50  <domanic>hmm, they have a whitepaper, but it reads more like a broshure
06:00:08  <domanic>jbenet, how does the value of filecoin in/deflate?
06:05:09  <domanic>jbenet, the saddest thing about bitcoin is that now everyone has started writing "white papers" and being typesett is Computer Modern is no longer an indication of credibility :(
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06:08:23  <jbenet>domanic that's a very liberal application of the term "whitepaper" :D
06:08:53  <jbenet>yeahhh sadness. What you have to look for now is how good the crypto is.
06:09:54  * jbenetmore on in/deflation later. haven't decided what's best. need to model more.
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06:14:22  <domanic>jbenet, and maybe wether the references are papers or urls
06:14:43  <domanic>(of course, really, the references should just be hashes ;)
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06:19:32  <domanic>jbenet, disk gets cheaper and cheaper, so I figure that if you stored 1 mb this year, you should be able to trade that for storing 2mb next year
06:20:17  <domanic>but also, you need to factor in the size of the entire network
06:21:38  <jbenet>domanic you just wait. THe refs on future papers will link to ipfs.
06:22:16  <jbenet>Yep, complicated economic models.
06:23:17  <domanic>also some files may be wanted to store for a long time, but with low transfer (cold storage) some files are about distribution
06:23:29  <jbenet>Ultimately markets are a huge hack. "What's this worth?" "Eh, whatever people will pay for it" which is perfectly accurate :)
06:23:46  <domanic>good point
06:23:56  <jbenet>domanic Filecoin without Gets is basically cold storage.
06:24:13  <domanic>Gets are in the blockchain, correct?
06:25:21  <jbenet>As the size of the piece set grows, the likelihood of proof drops. Yep gets on chain.
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06:26:16  <jbenet>Note though that a secondary market forms, off blockchain. (Payment can be on or off) where more profit is made on data already held
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19:05:52  <domanic>some one just sent me a PR that adds a single line of whitespace
19:06:01  <domanic>not sure how I feel about this
19:06:54  <kid_icarus>lol
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19:11:41  <substack>domanic: careful, it might be somebody trying to collect a bitcoin bounty
19:12:19  <substack>some people are putting down bounties on projects and paying out everyone who gets a pull request accepted
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19:12:44  <substack>which is being exploited by a flood of meaningless patches
19:12:51  <kid_icarus>woah
19:12:53  <kid_icarus>crazy!
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19:13:07  <ednapiranha>wut
19:13:20  <domanic>haha. I think I will not merge it because if everyone with whitespace ocd would make prs then I'd be here all day
19:15:05  <domanic>my decision: https://github.com/dominictarr/level-sublevel/pull/68#issuecomment-53203713
19:16:48  <kid_icarus>lol
19:16:51  <kid_icarus>that's fair
19:16:52  <kid_icarus>haha
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19:16:58  <ednapiranha>ASI ASI
19:16:58  <LOUDBOT>DO NOT WANT
19:17:01  <ednapiranha>whoa
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23:06:14  <ednapiranha>domanic: http://ws.revisit.link/
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23:07:10  <domanic>ednapiranha, nice where can I get a sweater that looks like that?
23:07:17  <ednapiranha>haha
23:07:39  <domanic>need to hook this thing up to a knitting robot
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23:35:07  <pfraze>domanic: http://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2014/07/23/sandboxed-applications-for-gnome-part-2/
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