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01:27:57  <thealphanerd>chrisdickinson: esprima 2 can do es6 too
01:27:58  <thealphanerd>fwiw
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01:39:38  <substack>domanic: waiting at the gate at SFO right now
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01:40:41  <domanic>substack, sweet! see you soon! you are transferring to christchurch tomorrow?
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01:44:51  <substack>departing for christchurch 2015-03-25 12:15
01:45:21  <domanic>substack, when do you land?
01:45:43  <domanic>you might see feros in the airport, he lands tomorrow 6:30 am
01:45:57  <thealphanerd>chrisdickinson: you can also check out https://github.com/shapesecurity/shift-spec
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01:46:22  <substack>I land 2015-03-25 05:55
01:46:50  <substack>probably the same flight, there aren't so many
01:53:21  <substack>the airnz flight is really decked out in hobbit imagery
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03:46:31  <ogd>feross: ping
03:54:00  <feross>Yep me and substack are on the same flight
03:54:32  <feross>ogd: we are taking off! ttys
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04:02:17  <ogd>feross: lol bye
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05:14:37  <jjjohnny_>This one is for the hacker masterminds. http://www.hulu.com/watch/724995
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17:51:05  <substack>mikolalysenko: got the first part of this kdb-tree working great on the plane!
17:51:38  <substack>suspiciously functional and performant despite no caching of the write() and read() io calls
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17:52:30  <substack>now I'm going to try to store data chunks inline in the blocks along with the points to hopefully get some locality and caching benefits
17:52:59  <mikolalysenko>substack: great!
17:54:15  <substack>going to try to organize the blocks so that the coordinate data grows down and the data chunks grow up from the end of the block
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17:55:25  <mikolalysenko>substack: do you arrange the blocks of the kdtree in level order?
17:55:35  <mikolalysenko>that can help on some systems which do read lookahead
17:56:23  <substack>yes, I think so
17:57:24  <substack>they're laid out as A, B, C, D, E, F, G on disk for A->[B,C], B->[D,E], C->[F,G]
17:57:37  <mikolalysenko>yes, that is the right way to do it
17:58:01  <mikolalysenko>I mean theoretically veb order is better, but in practice it is too hard to do it efficiently
17:58:19  <mikolalysenko>also bfs tends to give you better caching of the root levels of the tree
17:58:27  <mikolalysenko>which are the most important for fast searching
17:58:42  <substack>I was thinking about that
17:59:05  <mikolalysenko>the problem with veb is that calculating indices is just too awful
17:59:18  <substack>I'm mostly concerned with minimizing number of fetches (high latency over the network)
17:59:27  <substack>and then secondarily minimizing total transfer
17:59:39  <mikolalysenko>b-tree in bfs order is obviously the way to go
17:59:48  <mikolalysenko>for some value of b
18:00:08  <substack>well the way I've written it B can vary based on how much data is also stored in each block
18:00:12  <substack>once I get that part working
18:00:18  <mikolalysenko>yeah, that makes sense
18:00:31  <substack>so it'll just be fiddling with the block size
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18:00:41  <substack>to see what works best in different scenarios
18:00:45  <mikolalysenko>b-trees are basically the optimal 2-level io search tree
18:01:20  <mikolalysenko>the only way it can fail is if you have multiple cache levels or don't know the memory block size ahead of time
18:01:30  <mikolalysenko>to the level that you can't even guess what the block size is
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18:01:57  <substack>the blocks are fixed size in my implementation
18:02:35  <substack>which might make it weird if there are big chunks, but I'll address that as it comes up
18:03:06  <mikolalysenko>just make it a constant, and change it later if it becomes a problem
18:03:40  <mikolalysenko>or you can go crazy and make a b-tree for the next 100 years using veb or some overly elaborate cache oblivious technique
18:03:56  <mikolalysenko>but yeah, boring old b-trees kind of kick ass
18:06:58  <mikolalysenko>substack: are you gonna take on dynamization or stick with static trees?
18:07:10  <mikolalysenko>if you decide to do the latter it might be good to do something like log structured merging
18:07:19  <mikolalysenko>or else use scape goating
18:07:29  <substack>dynamization as in different-sized blocks?
18:07:36  <substack>or as in rebalancing?
18:07:38  <mikolalysenko>like allow insert/delete
18:07:40  <mikolalysenko>yeah
18:07:56  <substack>haven't thought as much about that yet
18:08:10  <substack>since my main use case is immutable content to start with
18:08:19  <mikolalysenko>so if your tree construction is fast and you are ok with amortized O(log(n)) inserts static is actually good enough
18:08:26  <substack>but really really big immutable content (gigabytes worth)
18:08:53  <mikolalysenko>the idea with log structured merging is that you basically keep a forest of search trees
18:09:06  <mikolalysenko>when you insert an item, you add it to a little pool of free items that you can just scan
18:09:15  <mikolalysenko>when that pool fills up, you build a new tree out of it
18:09:31  <mikolalysenko>and when you have enough of those little trees floating around, you blow them all up and make a big tree out of their elements
18:09:32  <mikolalysenko>etc.
18:09:56  <substack>ah yes I tried to implement that a few months back
18:09:59  <mikolalysenko>if you are careful about this, you only end up inserting an item into maybe O(log(n)) trees total
18:10:55  <mikolalysenko>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log-structured_merge-tree
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18:11:40  <mikolalysenko>the other option that works pretty well for b-trees is scape goating
18:12:17  <mikolalysenko>but scape goating is more of a pointer machine trick, it tends not to work as well in io memory
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19:12:15  <substack>damn this data is so compact
19:14:18  <substack>wait wc -c and ls -h disagree by a huge amount
19:15:13  <substack>storing about 430k of data, the file is 476k, seems like pretty good, very small amount of overhead
19:15:28  <substack>but then wc -c says 10219520
19:15:42  <substack>maybe because I'm not truncating the file or something
19:15:46  <substack>raw fs calls blah
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20:08:11  <mafintosh>substack: the wc -c size is larger than ls -h?
20:09:14  <mafintosh>ls probably just gives you get size from stat and wc probably counts the file content - doesn't really explain why they are different though
20:10:16  <substack>I think it's because I did fs.open() and didn't say the magic word
20:10:24  <substack>possibly the magic word is fs.truncate()
20:10:31  <substack>or fs.close()?
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21:00:39  <mafintosh>substack: fs.close probably
21:00:56  <mafintosh>substack: did you open it in append mode?
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21:10:18  <substack>just 'w+'
21:11:49  <substack>storing data on the blocks has shot up the file size by 100x even though it's only 2x more data :/
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21:12:56  <substack>but it still works, so probably just an error in the free space branch checking
21:13:05  <substack>anyways it's getting pretty close
21:13:52  <substack>and then: proximity queries over n-dimensional data over bittorrent
21:19:01  <substack>or maybe it's just because the blocksize is so small and I'm not presorting
21:20:25  <substack>bigger blocksize grows much faster
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21:23:48  <substack>it does appear to scale linearly with the size of the input at least
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21:40:03  <substack>aha, negative value in the free calculation!
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21:40:21  <substack>mmalecki: I'm in nz!
21:40:40  <substack>oh wait meant mmckegg
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21:46:15  <mmckegg>substack: nice! On my way to chch now!
21:46:54  <substack>I'm at auckland aeropuerto waiting for the 12;00 to chch
21:47:33  <substack>jamming on spatial indexes!
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21:48:34  <mmckegg>sounds like you'll arrive around the same time
21:48:58  <substack>not sure where I'm headed yet when I get there
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21:49:06  <substack>will probably just hop on a bus I guess?
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21:50:48  <mmckegg>we have someone ahdinosaur knows picking us up. But there are good regular busses from the airport.
21:51:43  <mmckegg>you could probably grab a ride with us, if times work out. Not sure where we're going though either.
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22:03:43  <substack>yesssss
22:04:23  <substack>20000 [x,y,z] points with 10 bytes of data now clocks in at 900k
22:05:19  <substack>with 100k, only 3.3M!
22:06:09  <substack>> 20000 * (3*4+100) / 1024 / 1024
22:06:09  <substack>2.13623046875
22:06:36  <substack>only 50% overhead for 100 byte payload :D
22:11:10  <substack>and I'm not even presorting or anything
22:20:23  <substack>nor am I caching which would speed it up a ton
22:20:47  <substack>but it's already answering nearest neighbor queries on a 17M db in 12ms
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22:25:15  <substack>calling this thing mddf why not
22:25:21  <substack>multi dimensional data format
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22:29:54  <jjjohnny_>mikolalysenko: that's pretty neat that contour extraction dang
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22:41:38  <substack>https://github.com/substack/mddf
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22:44:24  <anandthakker>substack: that is exciting!
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22:50:15  <substack>and next I can use ecef for rnn bwahaha
22:50:31  <substack>and populate a db with the auckland osm extract I've got
22:50:45  <substack>and serve it up over torrent-stream
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22:53:02  <kumavis>document.write: this runs <script>code</script> this doesnt <script src="code.js"></script>
22:53:56  <kumavis>blargitty
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23:06:38  <anandthakker>substack: does this extend pretty naturally to attaching payloads to polygons (or bounding boxes)?
23:07:19  <anandthakker>(possibly that's an obvious question and I just don't know it :) )
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