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00:00:27  <noffle>pretty!
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00:00:37  <substack>where is a wacky idea: what if we build an app store for our html/electron apps and run that infrastructure as a cooperative endeavor
00:01:24  <substack>I've got a few apps in the pipeline, jjjohnny has a few more, domanic and pfraze working on ssb things, mmckegg has loopdrop
00:02:33  <mmckegg>Woah! sounds interesting :)
00:02:38  <substack>we could build some common infrastructure for sign-on, storage, organizational membership and voting
00:02:58  <substack>and get some nice economies of scale out of it
00:03:41  <noffle>substack: what kind of infrastructure do you need that GH doesn't offer? or is this for running e.g. ssb or Friends nodes?
00:03:59  <substack>yes, running nodes, torrent seeds, payment processing
00:04:11  <substack>single sign-on, storage layers
00:09:12  <noffle>nice; that seems like it'd be especially useful for providing reliable bootstrapping nodes for fledgling p2p projects
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00:12:18  <substack>I think the hardest part will be to keep a stable flow of revenue coming in
00:14:09  <jjjohnny>its a market
00:14:12  <jjjohnny>its our market
00:14:25  <jjjohnny>we'll start small, hustling web apps out of the trunk
00:14:47  <jjjohnny>and build out our services like whoa billy
00:15:25  <substack>but I think it's also different from a market, because we would have much more cooperation between different apps
00:15:38  <substack>because everybody receives some benefit when an app does well
00:17:26  <jjjohnny>yeah, interoperability is easily built it, for an auto mash up reality
00:18:14  <jjjohnny>i could publish a transform stream app, with interface, like every day
00:18:58  <feross>substack: i like this idea
00:19:35  <feross>if it's lightweight enough and uses webrtc than volunteers can just stick a script on their blogs and websites to support the network
00:19:58  <feross>even if the website isn't using one of the p2p apps
00:21:10  <substack>feross: it would be a real business, with real cashflow from app purchases and subscriptions
00:21:35  <substack>so there would be money to run infrastructure
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00:23:46  <substack>but importantly, it would be an institution with a lasting sense of ownership more like open source
00:24:02  <substack>and less like jobs that are fleeting and ephemeral
00:26:15  <jjjohnny>and of course, a direct pipeline of our self operated FOSS crowd fund plantform, plus revolutionary publication for software architecture and design
00:26:36  <substack>sure
00:26:51  <substack>every successful movement needs a propaganda machine
00:28:27  <jjjohnny>well, maybe it will be sticthed together from cyberwiz and etcetera
00:29:45  <jjjohnny>would be sweet if people who wanted software, but needed some education on the matter, could come away with knowledge good enough to create a proposal for the crowd
00:30:12  <karissa>Sounds lovely
00:31:38  <karissa>Revenue sharing would be nice. It'd be great if there was a baseline for member-contributors. I'd actually like to explore this funding model http://arxiv.org/abs/1304.1067
00:32:50  <substack>a dividend could work well for that
00:33:44  <substack>alaska permanent fund dividend style, oil revenues get taxes at a fixed percent, goes into a pool of money that gets invested, the proceeds from that end up in the payouts
00:34:03  <noffle>are you thinking we'd run/maintain the hardware, or pool e.g. VPSes?
00:34:29  <substack>VPSes to start, but they are much more expensive for some things like disk than doing co-lo
00:35:06  <substack>there are economies of scale at a certain level of operations
00:35:16  <substack>and by pooling our resources, we can lower operations costs
00:35:53  <karissa>Sounds good to me
00:42:56  * substackdrafting a proposal
00:43:43  <karissa>substack: would we need to agree on a protocol for all the apps to use?
00:43:53  <jjjohnny>i propose apps self host all data locally on user's machine, scale with webRTC, and mirror/backup any number of ways (ie. socially, or, as a service)
00:44:32  <jjjohnny>and that we build a decentralized but hosted dynamic DNS to connect with hosts andor their mirrors
00:44:44  <substack>karissa: not necessarily
00:45:00  <jjjohnny>MY SANDCASTLE!
00:45:02  <substack>karissa: most apps wouldn't need anything special, only the apps that need to coordinate
00:45:14  <substack>like a storage application or a single sign-on app
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00:47:33  <karissa>Right
00:47:47  <karissa>it'd be nice to get a prototype running
00:47:56  <substack>agreed!
00:48:22  <substack>karissa: are you headed back to oak after ccc?
00:49:05  <substack>a bunch of us should meet up to flesh out this idea more in person
00:49:08  <substack>and prototype
00:49:15  <karissa>substack: I'll be in Europe till the end of August then back in Oakland sept 1
00:49:48  <karissa>Would love to
00:49:56  <substack>ok, early sept!
00:50:22  <karissa>The revenue sharing model can be figured out I think. I'm excited about it and have ideas
00:51:03  <substack>that would be great, I don't have as many ideas about how that part would work
00:55:37  <jjjohnny>i do https://github.com/MODULHAUS/anarcho-source/blob/master/README.md#remuneration-patterns
01:01:07  <jjjohnny>we could issue notes on the blockchain, you could sell you worked hours as shares
01:01:44  <jjjohnny>we could accept investors at reasonable, perfectly equitable terms
01:02:14  <substack>I would rather do away with investors entirely
01:03:06  <substack>investment is another vehicle by which the rich get richer at the expense of people who create the value
01:03:32  <substack>but that limitation will mean that we should build recurring revenue streams early
01:04:09  <jjjohnny>are you saying I can
01:04:23  <jjjohnny>are you saying I can't sell my revenue shares?
01:04:47  <jjjohnny>i want my free country back
01:05:08  <karissa>Rofl
01:07:22  <substack>if we let membership become another market commodity, a small number of people will end up owning the whole thing just like always happens
01:07:44  <substack>and it will suck and we'll need to build everything all over again from scratch
01:09:17  <karissa>It's a hard problem that we will solve eventually
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01:09:37  <karissa>Or mess up. But whatever it is will be better than what it is right now if we are intentional and inclusive
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01:11:07  <karissa>Most importantly it's about making things possible that people thought weren't, expanding possibilities and thought processes
01:13:03  <substack>and if we document everything, we can encourage copycats
01:15:23  <karissa>Yeah! And if it works, even better
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01:17:13  <jjjohnny>investors would not get to vote on anything
01:17:26  <jjjohnny>in one copycat version that tries investors
01:18:40  <jjjohnny>its all make believe, i can do without it
01:25:02  <noffle>I can't claim to be particularly knowledgable on these subjects, but I'd be interested in joining in and contributing where I can.
01:26:49  <noffle>at the very least I'm really behind the idea and spirit :)
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03:20:40  <jjjohnny>substack: https://github.com/MODULHAUS/electron-starter
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18:53:29  <pfraze>ogd: fromUnicode is in https://github.com/pfraze/base-emoji
18:56:25  <ogd>pfraze: WOOT!
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21:44:12  <ogd>say i have a Buffer(1024), and an array [1,2,3,4,5,6], and i wanna write those values to the first 6 elements of my buffer, what method do i use?
21:44:27  <ogd>basically im looking for typedarray.prototype.set but for Buffer
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21:45:15  <ogd>do i have to do new Buffer([1,2,3,4,5,6]) and then use .copy?
22:00:02  <mafintosh>ogd: if the array is small(ish) i'd just for (var i ... ) buf[i] = array[i]
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22:00:18  <mafintosh>to save the double alloc
22:00:21  <jjjohnny>i wish feross's buffer module was core
22:01:00  <jjjohnny>it uses int8 typed arrays
22:01:44  <jjjohnny>then you can swap out or copy underlying array buffers
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