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05:25:21  <emilbayes>Here's an idea. Say you wanted to share files between mobile devices, p2p style, so no internet og intermediaries allowed. You only have the browser. iOS only allows you to choose from the Photo Library out of the box, though 3rd party apps like Google Drive are also allowed. Could you encode a payload as a video or image file on the fly and save that. The
05:25:21  <emilbayes>next question is then how to send files between devices. I guess you have AirDrop on newer iDevices, but are there other methods? What about to Andoid?
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06:34:38  <mappum>emilbayes: you could do it via audio using something like this: http://jywarren.github.io/modem.js/demo.html
06:35:02  <mappum>that's only 1200 baud but i bet you could use different modulation schemes to do it faster
06:35:19  <emilbayes>mappum: Oh yeah, that'd be cool
06:35:40  <emilbayes>But it's really low bandwidth
06:36:08  <emilbayes>Like transfering 5 MB would take forever, even if you could squeeze a bit more bandwidth out of it
06:38:49  <emilbayes>Even bluetooth is pretty low bandwidth, but still acceptable for smaller files. I guess that's why AirDrop uses Bluetooth for discovery, but WiFi direct for transfer
06:39:28  <mappum>looks like there's a draft for a web bluetooth api: https://webbluetoothcg.github.io/web-bluetooth/, but idk how likely that is to become standard
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06:40:13  <mappum>i bet you could get pretty high bandwidth by pointing a camera at a screen
06:40:26  <mappum>but there's a lot of engineering to be done there
06:41:49  <emilbayes>Hmm I guess, but isn't QR an indicator that you can't have that much bandwidth if you want to be robust?
06:42:34  <emilbayes>Yeah, had a look at web-bluetooth, but it's not even on standards track, so probably wont see it for a fair while
06:42:57  <mappum>hm good point
06:43:34  <emilbayes>Idk how QR video would fare
06:43:56  <emilbayes>but that is probably too much work anyway
06:44:09  <mappum>well you could do it over wifi just with a $3 ESP8266 board, powered by your phone
06:45:01  <emilbayes>Hmm then I might as well download one of the apps that allow file transfer ^^
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06:46:36  <mappum>if you are constrained to a browser it gets really hard :P
06:47:51  <emilbayes>Well more by no access to public internet or the surrounding world. Think a citizens in a war torn country
06:48:31  <emilbayes>But yeah, I was just thinking how far this idea could get with a stock phone, either iOS or Android for sharing data
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13:55:26  <thealphanerd>hey substack browserify and watchify are both broken on node master right now (at least the test suites)
13:55:40  <thealphanerd>I've sent pr's to all the affected modules, and created meta issues in citgm
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15:46:50  <substack>thealphanerd: any idea what changed in node core?
15:47:19  <substack>oh I see, Buffer() without new now won't work?
15:47:33  <substack>that really sucks, there is so much code that depends on the old behavior
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15:47:39  <thealphanerd>it does still work
15:47:43  <thealphanerd>just throws a deprecation message now
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15:47:53  <thealphanerd>the actual deprecation won't be for a while if it ever happens
15:48:06  <substack>I have hundreds of modules that use that form
15:48:09  <thealphanerd>but due to the way you are listening to child processes in the test suites it breaks things
15:48:13  <substack>I really don't like that this change went through
15:48:35  <thealphanerd>one sec let me get an issue for you
15:48:54  <substack>why can't core call .fill(0) on the allocated buffers instead?
15:49:13  <thealphanerd>https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/8169
15:49:23  <thealphanerd>the zero filling already is happening
15:49:45  <thealphanerd>https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/8169#issuecomment-244036798
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15:50:47  <thealphanerd>and https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/7152#issuecomment-241355246
15:51:45  <substack>why can't they do if (!(this instanceof Buffer)) return new Buffer(args) ?
15:51:56  <substack>I do that literally everywhere
15:52:41  <substack>anyhow thanks for the heads up
15:54:42  <thealphanerd>I'm going to submit the factory pattern as an alternative
15:54:46  <thealphanerd>that's a good idea
15:55:08  <thealphanerd>either way if you land those PR's I sent all the test suites will pass again
15:55:22  <substack>I think it's good that the test suites fail on node 7
15:55:26  <substack>because node 7 is broken
15:55:27  <thealphanerd>although you may not want to land exactly what I sent on browser-pack as it break 0.10 / 0.12
15:55:30  <thealphanerd>substack :D
15:56:10  <substack>I'll dig into that patch to see if it's possible to use the instanceof trick
15:56:18  <substack>I think that would greatly diminish upgrade pains
15:57:05  <thealphanerd>substack there have been quite a few breaking changes coming down the pipeline for v7
15:57:15  <thealphanerd>but that's why we are aggressively testing and doing a 1 month beta
15:57:20  <thealphanerd>we want to make sure we can minimize the pain
15:58:05  <thealphanerd>substack also if you read that last post, I think one of the bigger things is making Buffer a proper subclass of Uint8Array
15:59:11  <substack>feross managed to do that for browserify without breaking existing semantics
16:05:37  <thealphanerd>I'm running some tests... I honestly don't know why we wouldn't just do that off hand... but maybe there is a reason
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16:13:00  <substack>all of this new es6 class stuff looks like total garbage
16:15:04  <substack>I think I see why you can't do instanceof
16:15:16  <substack>this is an es6-imposed limitation
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16:22:45  <thealphanerd>it isn't an es6 class atm though
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16:22:53  <thealphanerd>I'm not sure that you can't tbqh
16:26:21  <substack>I just did some quick checks, it seems impossible to subclass Uint8Array and have something that works without `new`
16:26:33  <substack>while exporting a thing that is itself subclassable
16:27:32  <substack>I should make all of my tests fragile against deprecation warnings
16:27:33  <ogd>substack: the nordic.js ppl emailed me asking you to email them
16:28:31  <Fishrock123>substack: correct of the subclass part
16:29:23  <Fishrock123>Ideally all test runners would hook into `process.on('warning')`... but obviosuly no one knew it would exist before we added it :)
16:30:02  <substack>ogd: ok sent them a thing
16:30:06  <Fishrock123>substack: wait, make them fragile? why?
16:30:16  <Fishrock123>I may be misunderstanding something
16:30:24  <substack>Fishrock123: so that tests fail when node breaks itself
16:30:51  <Fishrock123>what do you mean "node breaks itself"?
16:31:15  <Fishrock123>When it issues deprecations or when it removes stuff?
16:31:25  <substack>when node sabotages its own ecosystem by adding deprecation warnings to things that previously worked fine
16:31:28  <substack>for dubious reasons
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16:34:58  <thealphanerd>if you feel this way I highly suggest chiming in on https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/7152#issuecomment-241355246
16:35:20  <thealphanerd>addaleax is very reasonable as is the rest of the ctc
16:35:28  <thealphanerd>if there is a perspective we are missing we will listen
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18:09:52  <thealphanerd>hey substack question for you... if the errors that we are seeing right now are all caused by deprecation warnings clogging up stderr
18:10:08  <thealphanerd>would you be satisfied by a env var you could add to any / all tests that would supress those warnings?
18:10:51  <substack>no
18:15:11  <thealphanerd>kk
18:17:04  <substack>from my perspective, node7 broke code that used to work and should be fixed so that existing code continues to work
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18:46:31  <thealphanerd>substack I'm going to continue working on this until we find a solution
18:46:42  <thealphanerd>and that solution may very well be a revert
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19:53:53  <jfhbrook>I'm surprised y'all haven't just stopped breaking shit tbh
19:54:05  <jfhbrook>you've been smacked for it so many times
20:35:29  <jfhbrook>it sounds like I'm being flippant here but I'm being pretty serious---I've lost count of how many times this kind of thing has happened in node core post-iojs
20:35:36  <jfhbrook>and it seems like, eventually, someone
20:35:37  <jfhbrook>somewhere
20:35:46  <jfhbrook>would start reacting to these changes with "we can't"
20:35:57  <jfhbrook>before substack, or isaac, or blaine, or whoever, complains
20:36:28  <jfhbrook>so yeah you could say there's a missing perspective
20:44:26  <jfhbrook>(particularly amazing is that this perspective has been completely detailed multiple times every time node core breaks shit)
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22:37:34  <mappum>substack: i made a module that does that ES6 class equivalent of the `if(!(this instanceof Class))` trick
22:38:35  <mappum>it's called old
22:38:38  <substack>mappum: is it possible to extend and baseclass?
22:38:43  <mappum>yep
22:38:48  <mappum>and it's like 4 lines
22:38:57  <substack>or I guess, inherit plus extend
22:39:28  <mappum>https://github.com/mappum/old
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22:40:30  <substack>hmm
22:42:37  <jfhbrook>I'm mostly irritated that es6 classes have this gap
22:46:57  <mappum>hm actually, i just discovered that the subclassing doesn't work like i thought it did
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22:47:49  <mappum>extending an olded class puts methods from both the parent and the child in the prototype, but the instances only get the parent's methods
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23:30:24  <substack>https://substack.neocities.org/cybershrek/
23:38:04  <jfhbrook>stop changing your username jsdn
23:38:15  <jfhbrook>I hate change!