00:06:53  <jfhbrook>fucking a github
00:07:00  <jfhbrook>their #links never work for me
00:07:43  <jfhbrook>should I do this?
00:07:51  <jfhbrook>I kinda don't "do" node right now
00:07:56  <jfhbrook>but I still care about the community
00:08:32  <jfhbrook>oh wait
00:08:37  <jfhbrook>I would have to be an individual member
00:08:39  <jfhbrook>screw that haha
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00:58:05  <substack>yeah costs $100 :/
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00:59:10  <substack>I also feel outside of the node world, most everything I've built has been browser-focused
01:00:18  <substack>I don't really know what the scope of the node foundation even is or what kind of resources they can realistically command
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01:12:00  <terinjokes>i've also not become an IM
01:12:10  <terinjokes>feel like I've more than done that by having been around
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01:29:05  <jfhbrook>yeah I have no idea
01:29:20  <jfhbrook>I just kinda feel like corporate interests won
01:29:42  <jfhbrook>and I'm down with the enterprise but it seems pretty far removed from the user
01:30:14  <jfhbrook>and sometimes I wonder if I could fix that by barging in and raising a ruckus
01:30:20  <jfhbrook>it's worked before
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02:57:35  <substack>one of the big problems is how to maintain very large ecosystems of inter-dependent packages
02:57:54  <substack>but also how most of the work that goes into those packages happens before anybody cares
02:58:13  <substack>and by the time they are broadly recognized, they are ideally "done"
02:59:01  <substack>like for example webpack is pulling down $32476 annually :/ https://opencollective.com/webpack
02:59:23  <substack>that seems like a recipe for scope creep
02:59:30  <jfhbrook>I dunno
02:59:38  <jfhbrook>in general, I think it's good when devs get paid to work on things
03:00:04  <jfhbrook>mostly because it's hard work and we all need to eat
03:00:11  <substack>I think ideally, most of the money raised should go to the next thing, not the current thing
03:00:15  <jfhbrook>and work on open source is work that could have been contract work
03:00:41  <jfhbrook>what if the "next thing" can be iteratively arrived at by developing webpack?
03:00:48  <jfhbrook>it doesn't become bigger, it just becomes different?
03:01:06  <jfhbrook>or, well it does become bigger for backwards compat reasons, having to live with its past mistakes
03:01:07  <substack>I can't think of good examples
03:01:37  <substack>I think it's much more common to see the opposite, where projects get bigger and hairier over time
03:01:49  <jfhbrook>well like
03:01:55  <substack>or else do a complete rewrite for marginal gains and a large amount of disruption
03:01:56  <jfhbrook>ember might be an interesting example
03:01:59  <substack>like angular2
03:02:31  <jfhbrook>because on one hand ember is a one stop shop for everything, on the other hand it's more like it's been updated to reflect current norms and coolThings rather than having just had more functionality bolted on
03:02:53  <jfhbrook>in someone else's hand, though, the old functionality is still there for deprecation management reasons
03:03:46  <jfhbrook>I guess maybe at one point in time ember-cli and fastboot weren't things, like those are new things that only ember has now
03:03:52  <jfhbrook>dunno
03:04:10  <jfhbrook>I have really mixed feelings about ember XD
03:04:33  <jfhbrook>oh, or like express
03:05:00  <jfhbrook>express is half way through a process of being reorganized into separate modules, and I think there's also work to make it not replace the req/res prototypes wholesale anymore
03:05:06  <jfhbrook>(express does this)
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22:56:24  <substack>mafintosh: any ideas about https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9531#issuecomment-267468203
22:57:46  <substack>also feross ^^
23:02:39  <jfhbrook>substack: so would that mean that streams now give you bytearrays? that would be a huge breaking change
23:03:13  <jfhbrook>substack: beyond the APIs that deprecating buffer wholesale would touch tangentially (basically all core streams), using uint8 arrays directly seems reasonable
23:04:33  <mafintosh>substack: since Buffers are now uint8 arrays anyway i think this would be the way to
23:05:09  <jfhbrook>substack: oh--this would be like paas 0.6 as default engine kinda situations D: which is necessary but sucks
23:05:38  <jfhbrook>imo buffer doesn't need to be fixed, but those dudes stopped listening to me long ago ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
23:07:24  <mafintosh>substack: would the default for fs.readFile remain a buffer for backwards compat?
23:07:39  <mafintosh>readFile and any other method returning buffers right now
23:08:16  <substack>mafintosh: yes for a long time
23:08:23  <substack>and also with streams
23:08:33  <substack>but you would be able to pass in { encoding: 'uint8' }
23:08:39  <mafintosh>right
23:15:06  <mafintosh>substack: i think this is a good idea
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23:24:36  <substack>this would be better long-term for better browser interop too
23:24:58  <substack>and browsers already have array buffers, so we could skip having to send a buffer implementation down the wire
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