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13:14:43  <StephenLynx>hey, have anyone considered not using svn for building V8 dependencies?
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13:17:05  <caitp>i don't think svn is used anymore for any of them
13:18:31  <StephenLynx>Well, I just had to install svn to be able to run "make dependencies". Cloned it friday.
13:19:29  <caitp>you must be using an old version
13:19:51  <StephenLynx>default branch, cloned friday.
13:20:03  <caitp>make dependencies no longer does anything, have to use depot_tools now
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13:22:15  <StephenLynx>branch master, cloned from github.com/v8/v8.git Last commit was on december 2014.
13:22:26  <caitp>yeah, that's old
13:22:34  <caitp>the github mirror is v8/v8-git-mirror now
13:22:38  <StephenLynx>ah
13:22:40  <StephenLynx>ok
13:23:59  <caitp>https://chromium.googlesource.com/v8/v8.git is the main upstream repo, but it shouldn't make too much of a difference
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13:26:47  <StephenLynx>ok, using master of v8-git-mirror, should it be alright?
13:27:23  <caitp>yeah, it's probably a few hours behind at most
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13:37:26  <Getty>wowwowoow we are talking? ;)
13:37:35  <Getty>dont shock the poor users!
13:38:00  <caitp>:>
13:42:39  <Getty>V8 is the btw the coolest shit since slice bread, its just not know yet by the others
13:46:11  <esas>yeah and it's pretty straight forward to integrate, I like it :)
13:47:21  <Getty>yeah well "straight forward to integrate" is always a bit vague statement somehow
13:47:38  <Getty>i mean the Perl XS implementation of it, is brutal and its based on the OLD UNREFACTORED v8
13:47:39  <esas>haha true
13:47:49  <StephenLynx>so far I wish it wouldn't rely so much on google's stuff for dependencies.
13:47:52  <Getty>so i need to make that new, and i didnt made the first implementation, i have no idea what i do!
13:47:54  <Getty>but i want it there
13:47:55  <esas>it was easy for me in C++ at least :)
13:48:05  <Getty>can i trigger you for help? ;)
13:49:16  <esas>maybe, it was mostly just copy n paste to get it working from what I remember
13:49:24  <esas>I'm dug into CEF at the moment
13:50:43  <Getty>yeah i am still not near that point, but i want the newest v8
13:51:04  <esas>not as easy to integrate from what I've gathered thus far
13:51:04  <Getty>right now it works fine with debian v8 (oldstable) and the perl module
13:51:08  <Getty>that makes it AT LEAST usable
13:51:09  <esas>(cef, not newest v8)
13:51:13  <Getty>what COULD help
13:51:16  <Getty>would be something independent
13:51:25  <Getty>i want a v8 running that i can inject with API
13:51:29  <Getty>that would clear the topic up 100%
13:51:39  <Getty>best with socket
13:51:53  <StephenLynx>http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Choosing-a-scripting-language this guy has some critics to V8.
13:52:16  <StephenLynx>"I found that it is quite difficult to expose C++ functions to the V8 JavaScript engine -- there is no established Luabind equivalent, so I had to create a much more low-level wrapper than I did for Lua. This is not so hard for simple functions and variables, but it would be very difficult to expose complicated classes and member functions."
13:52:16  <Getty>he first needs to come up with an alternative
13:52:26  <Getty>v8 is right now the only safe environment available
13:52:35  <Getty>;)
13:52:39  <Getty>aehm
13:52:47  <Getty>why i said environment variable?
13:52:52  <Getty>i meant only safe scripting environment
13:53:05  <Getty>the general idea i follow here around v8: make it cloud, make it cloud, make it cloud
13:53:14  <Getty>offer a service, offer v8 as scripting for the service ON THE SERVICE
13:53:24  <Getty>make lots of $$$
13:53:30  <StephenLynx>hm
13:53:46  <StephenLynx>I like it because its fast :v
13:54:00  <StephenLynx>and js syntax if very close to C syntax.
13:54:14  <Getty>but thats all something thats personal
13:54:17  <StephenLynx>and script mode takes away js' insanity in most part.
13:54:20  <Getty>the relevant point here is:
13:54:21  <Getty>No IO
13:54:26  <StephenLynx>as so is making lots of money.
13:54:28  <Getty>i can give ANYONE access to my local V8
13:54:37  <Getty>and i dont need to fear of them doing something bad
13:54:41  <Getty>they _CANT_ do something bad
13:54:53  <StephenLynx>you could just create an use without privileged and grant them SSH acess.
13:55:00  <Getty>its not like i need to care about security, or watch and wait for security problems, there are none by concept
13:55:02  <StephenLynx>an user*
13:55:18  <Getty>v8 allows total freedom on that and all others cant
13:55:27  <Getty>LUA has also the proble,
13:55:32  <Getty>you cant make an IO free LUA
13:55:34  <Getty>its not possible
13:55:40  <Getty>you have to take care of security with all LUA all the time
13:55:46  <Getty>(i talked with LUA expert)
13:56:29  <StephenLynx>strict mode takes away*
13:56:34  <StephenLynx>noticed a typo.
14:01:26  <Getty>important is that much more people use it
14:01:31  <Getty>i made a complete ContentManagement SYstem
14:01:34  <Getty>wait i can show you some doc
14:01:41  <caitp>for IO, node/iojs are good embedders to look at
14:01:53  <caitp>pretty straight forward implementation of IO bindings there
14:02:03  <Getty>https://sycontent.de/help/rules sorry for the outdated cert ;) i am lazy
14:02:14  <Getty>we talk here SPECIFIC about NOT IO
14:02:19  <Getty>if i have IO i can use a serious language
14:02:29  <Getty>node people are pretty stupid for just being lazy to learn a real language
14:02:37  <Getty>the point of v8 is that i can give access to anything to anybody
14:02:42  <Getty>node kills that purpose directly
14:02:53  <Getty>if the user has IO then i have to think about security
14:02:53  <Getty>A LOT
14:02:56  <Getty>like A LOT A LOT
14:03:06  <Getty>like 95% of the project investment goes into securing the user in his environment
14:03:07  <StephenLynx>no, node people are stupid because they are web developers.
14:03:12  <Getty>hey ;)
14:03:20  <Getty>i am one of the good web developers, dont say it so evil
14:03:26  <Getty>but yeah you are right, 99% are retards
14:03:28  <Getty>99.9%
14:03:45  <Getty>the retards in my job area are strong
14:03:46  <Getty>very very strong
14:04:27  <caitp>it's not very nice to call people retards mate
14:04:48  <StephenLynx>unless they don't have any mental disorder, it doesnt matter.
14:05:04  <StephenLynx>unless they have*
14:05:05  <Getty>oh sorry, the retards shouldnt be brought in context with those no-brain-humans ;) yes
14:05:28  <Getty>retards at least try their best
14:05:49  <Getty>but some web developers...... unbelievable
14:06:04  <Getty>whatever, the point is that this security element is crucial and thats why v8 will get much more attention in the future
14:06:11  <Getty>think about the following and that is something that you should keep in mind:
14:06:27  <StephenLynx>my problem with web developers is that they have just used training wheels they whole life and they become so oblivious with what they don't know that they start thinking they actually know stuff.
14:06:30  <Getty>you hire.... a developer..... to make your script on your service, instead of hiring a developer that gives you an environment first to make his code
14:06:38  <Getty>stephenlynx: not all of them
14:06:42  <StephenLynx>so you get some gems like "I need a framework for http in my http runtime environment.
14:06:44  <Getty>stephenlynx: but 99.9%
14:06:48  <Getty>hahahahha
14:06:53  <Getty>you talk about node, yes?
14:06:54  <Getty>;-)
14:06:57  <Getty>node people are 100%
14:07:09  <Getty>there is not 1 guy i would say is a serious developer who says "i must use node on my server"
14:07:15  <Getty>i didnt found one yet
14:07:25  <StephenLynx>you are not that further because you don't know io.js.
14:07:41  <Getty>yeah i heard about it
14:07:45  <Getty>what is it? like even more IO in Node?
14:08:09  <StephenLynx>no, its a fork that have greatly surpassed node in every aspect.
14:08:16  <caitp>it's just a fork of node with more up to date v8 revisions
14:09:01  <Getty>ah ok
14:09:19  <Getty>so the node people are even the stupid people inside the bubble of JS fanatics? ;-)
14:09:24  <Getty>thats cool
14:09:48  <StephenLynx>no, they are just the regular web developers.
14:09:51  <caitp>got a bit of a judgemental attitude man, take it easy =)
14:10:17  <StephenLynx>I honestly haven't found much difference between them and any other web developer.
14:10:32  <Getty>hahaha ;)
14:10:39  <StephenLynx>they cling to useless bloat, they don't know the basics, they see themselves as rockstarts.
14:10:42  <StephenLynx>rockstars*
14:10:47  <Getty>hey man i am a web developer ;) but not by choice its just what i get
14:11:04  <Getty>but i did big things with lots of backend and lots of scripts thta would never run in "web languages"
14:11:21  <StephenLynx>I do back-end development, but honestly I don't consider myself a web-developer.
14:11:28  <StephenLynx>is just one of the things I end up doing.
14:13:16  <StephenLynx>when people do nothing but web development, it can't be helped, all the available tools are training wheels and it has a community that is resistant to learning.
14:13:44  <StephenLynx>they rather add a dependency than writing a half dozen of intelligent lines.
14:14:33  <StephenLynx>if you are really that different than every other web developer, you shouldn't portrait yourself as one.
14:15:16  <StephenLynx>btw, isn't this the official v8 channel? the C and C++ channels on freenode are pretty serious, but this doesn't seem to be.
14:16:16  <caitp>it is, but it's not as active as #jsapi on irc.mozilla.org for example
14:16:41  <caitp>google has a sort of different collaboration strategy, not as irc-focused as moz
14:16:47  <StephenLynx>I see.
14:16:57  <Getty>stephenlynx: hahahaha you are one ;)
14:17:03  <StephenLynx>I am what?
14:17:24  <Getty>web developer ;9 if you are a backend developer who delivers the stuff for the frontend guy
14:17:29  <Getty>then you are already sucked in deeper as you think
14:17:36  <Getty>your brain already destabilize
14:17:38  <Getty>;-)
14:17:40  <StephenLynx>As I said, its just one of many things that I do.
14:17:58  <StephenLynx>I have done desktop development, ios dev, game dev
14:18:08  <StephenLynx>now I work with android too
14:18:27  <StephenLynx>you don't become a mexican because you ate a taco.
14:18:48  <StephenLynx>ah, and first of all: I didn't started developing for web.
14:18:56  <StephenLynx>it was the last thing that I started doing.
14:18:57  <caitp>as far as most recruiters are concerned, you do
14:19:15  <Getty>yeah
14:19:17  <Getty>what he says ;)
14:19:30  <Getty>if you have 1 web project in your timeline, you are a mexican ;) aehm you know ;)
14:19:34  <StephenLynx>and thats why developers don't give a hoot about what recruiters think.
14:19:48  <StephenLynx>or HR or managers.
14:19:50  <Getty>noone gives
14:20:11  <StephenLynx>so you should see why it doesn't matter to me what a recruiter thinks.
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14:29:37  <Getty>it doesnt care for anyone ;) but the problem is the reflection, many people are seen web developer just cause they solved once web problems
14:29:50  <Getty>while its like NORMAL for a developer at least once to solve a web problem, if its his own for the sake of doing it yourself
14:30:00  <Getty>but then the varity is big
14:30:23  <Getty>i am right now converting a customer project 15 year old perl legacy (which btw runs fine with the most recent perl hehe)
14:30:37  <Getty>he just did this one project, he is a pure web developer in that sense ;)
14:30:49  <Getty>but he never did anything else, so... yeah he uses NOTHING ;)
14:31:07  <Getty>but he makes better code as most other web developer i have seen ;-)
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15:27:24  <StephenLynx>got it to build. it wasnt that hard. I still wish it wouldn't depend on that weird google thing.
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20:48:36  <StephenLynx>ok, it is built. Can I copy and paste just the v8 part into my project?
20:49:06  <StephenLynx>how trivial is to do that? I believe io.js and node have done that.
20:51:38  <StephenLynx>it seems I don't need the out directory, it isn't on the io.js project.
20:53:00  <trungl-bot>Tree closed by [email protected]: Tree is closed (maintenance)
20:53:58  <caitp>StephenLynx, io.js and node use a customized gyp build
20:54:18  <caitp>the build system is wired up specifically for their uses
20:54:21  <StephenLynx>hm.
20:54:30  <caitp>all the embedders kinda have to do that
20:54:40  <StephenLynx>I just used make ia32
20:54:51  <caitp>you can probably link with it just fine
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21:06:05  <trungl-bot>Tree opened by [email protected]: Tree is open
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